How to best respond to my wife sending me a naked picture of another woman

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So... .now that the title has sucked you into reading this thread... .      

I want to assure you that this actually happened... .I'm going back and forth between doing the Beavis and Butthead... ."huh huh huh... .he he he"... ."Cool... .a naked chick... ."  (all women are allowed to eye roll here... .I'm fine with it... )

And being hurt at the complete lack of empathy and self awareness my wife is displaying while doing this... .

This may be a bit random... .but here is the situation and history.

NEVER... .has my wife sent me a picture of a naked woman in 20 some years of marriage.  A bazillion times she has accused me of wanting women... .all kinds of crazy a$$ stories about what I'm attracted to and what I want.  Very invalidating to me... because I don't want most of those things.  (Hey... .if you toss enough stuff out there... .you'll find a few things that interest me... .)

But... from the point of view of me... .and my r/s with other women... .my thinking about them.  I mainly do that when she brings it up.  In other words... .if she would hush... .90% of the mental time spent thinking about other women would vanish.  I would be much more at ease... .would appreciate her more... .

I've got about a week... maybe a bit more... .until my next MC session.  We spent two sessions focusing on my "obsession" with watching a girl in a one piece bathing suit in the "Girl you've got what I need video... "  (long story... .I watched it a couple times... .and she completely dysregulated... .completely... .no warning.  I used a boundary... went to bed.   It did come out that this "made" her feel insecure because I found the lady attractive and kept watching.  Truth:  there could have been zero women in it... .and I would have kept watching.  Just reliving some college memories from my dorm floor.  NOTHING to do with women.

Anyway... .this was HUGE deal in MC... .but I think there was a good outcome.  It's now more common in our r/s for me to directly ask how she is feeling... or ask about her emotions.  Generally a good outcome there... .and we are able to skip lots of accusations.  She tends to accuse... .and use my denials or "truth" in SET... .to get herself happy that I want her and not the woman in her story.  (whatever story that might be... )

So... .near as I can figure... .she sends me the naked pic of an actress (it's not airbrushed... .she's focused on that)... I don't see it until she asks about it and I go look.  She then selects a tv show that evening about politicians... .spent most of the evening "hissing" at the tv about what a liar, cheat, scumbag... .etc etc this guy was in the story... .and seemed to be making the speeches at the TV... .and kinda at me.  I tired of this... and went to bed.  Also... .this was in front of kids... pretty inappropriate... I thought. 

Middle of the night... .there is a rucus in the house.  She and oldest daughter let a dog stay inside because it was cold.  Dog is Husky... .it was 40 some degrees outside.  I asked her to go handle it.  She wouldn't speak to me or get out of bed.  I went and put the dog out.  I have sleep disabilities... and had hard time getting back to sleep.  When I got back to bed... she got up and went downstairs to sleep on couch.  Next morning I asked if she was ok... .she said she came down to "check on the dog"? (after I had put dog out)

We normally spend lots of time snuggling in the morning... .I spend time validating her... .usually gets day going right... for both of us.  5 different times I asked her to go have snuggle time... .that I wasn't feeling well due to lack of sleep.  Once she hopped in bed and stuck her feet under me... .another time she laid on the bed about as far away from me as she could... and reached her hand over and put it on me.  Started rambling on about me being on her facebook... .having her password... .(I did some SET... .focused on the T that I wasn't on her facebook and don't have or want her password).  She stomped around the room said "We're done"... and asked why I was making such a big deal about facebook.

Sort of a "normallish" rest of day yesterday.  I tried to catch a nap here and there... not much luck.  Asked her several times to help me get a good nights sleep as I had big day and week... .and was sleep deprived.  To me... .the evening seemed louder than normal.  I focused on not reacting... .she apparently slept in another bedroom.

No idea if whatever is going on will continue today or not.

My plan for next MC.  Keep focus on the What the heck?  element of this... .beat me up about women... and then you send me a pic and are asking about her breasts and if I like them ( I do... .but kept this to myself).  Also... I would like a boundary about shows with "cheaters".  I don't think either of us should be watching.

There's also the element here that I consciously try to avoid material like this.  She knows this.  She knows I do this out of respect for myself, her... .it's not something I think my kids should be doing... so why should I.  She honors this be doing what?  Really?

We've made huge progress... .I want to keep that going forward.  I have no plant to "react" or flip out over this... .but intend to keep the focus on her actions... and the nonsensicalness (is this a word?) of this.

I fully realize that I could see myself advising others to "let this go"... .don't bite.  But... you can't "let everything go". 

So... .start asking questions... .sharpening my arguments... .my focus. 

She will most likely claim I'm "trying to make her look crazy... "  If accurately describing her actions "makes her look that way"... .so be it.

[formflier]

So... .now that the title has sucked you into reading this thread... .      

I want to assure you that this actually happened... .I'm going back and forth between doing the Beavis and Butthead... ."huh huh huh... .he he he"... ."Cool... .a naked chick... ."  (all women are allowed to eye roll here... .I'm fine with it... )

And being hurt at the complete lack of empathy and self awareness my wife is displaying while doing this... .

This may be a bit random... .but here is the situation and history.

NEVER... .has my wife sent me a picture of a naked woman in 20 some years of marriage.  A bazillion times she has accused me of wanting women... .all kinds of crazy a$$ stories about what I'm attracted to and what I want.  Very invalidating to me... because I don't want most of those things.  (Hey... .if you toss enough stuff out there... .you'll find a few things that interest me... .)

But... from the point of view of me... .and my r/s with other women... .my thinking about them.  I mainly do that when she brings it up.  In other words... .if she would hush... .90% of the mental time spent thinking about other women would vanish.  I would be much more at ease... .would appreciate her more... .

I've got about a week... maybe a bit more... .until my next MC session.  We spent two sessions focusing on my "obsession" with watching a girl in a one piece bathing suit in the "Girl you've got what I need video... "  (long story... .I watched it a couple times... .and she completely dysregulated... .completely... .no warning.  I used a boundary... went to bed.   It did come out that this "made" her feel insecure because I found the lady attractive and kept watching.  Truth:  there could have been zero women in it... .and I would have kept watching.  Just reliving some college memories from my dorm floor.  NOTHING to do with women.

Anyway... .this was HUGE deal in MC... .but I think there was a good outcome.  It's now more common in our r/s for me to directly ask how she is feeling... or ask about her emotions.  Generally a good outcome there... .and we are able to skip lots of accusations.  She tends to accuse... .and use my denials or "truth" in SET... .to get herself happy that I want her and not the woman in her story.  (whatever story that might be... )

So... .near as I can figure... .she sends me the naked pic of an actress (it's not airbrushed... .she's focused on that)... I don't see it until she asks about it and I go look.  She then selects a tv show that evening about politicians... .spent most of the evening "hissing" at the tv about what a liar, cheat, scumbag... .etc etc this guy was in the story... .and seemed to be making the speeches at the TV... .and kinda at me.  I tired of this... and went to bed.  Also... .this was in front of kids... pretty inappropriate... I thought. 

Middle of the night... .there is a rucus in the house.  She and oldest daughter let a dog stay inside because it was cold.  Dog is Husky... .it was 40 some degrees outside.  I asked her to go handle it.  She wouldn't speak to me or get out of bed.  I went and put the dog out.  I have sleep disabilities... and had hard time getting back to sleep.  When I got back to bed... she got up and went downstairs to sleep on couch.  Next morning I asked if she was ok... .she said she came down to "check on the dog"? (after I had put dog out)

We normally spend lots of time snuggling in the morning... .I spend time validating her... .usually gets day going right... for both of us.  5 different times I asked her to go have snuggle time... .that I wasn't feeling well due to lack of sleep.  Once she hopped in bed and stuck her feet under me... .another time she laid on the bed about as far away from me as she could... and reached her hand over and put it on me.  Started rambling on about me being on her facebook... .having her password... .(I did some SET... .focused on the T that I wasn't on her facebook and don't have or want her password).  She stomped around the room said "We're done"... and asked why I was making such a big deal about facebook.

Sort of a "normallish" rest of day yesterday.  I tried to catch a nap here and there... not much luck.  Asked her several times to help me get a good nights sleep as I had big day and week... .and was sleep deprived.  To me... .the evening seemed louder than normal.  I focused on not reacting... .she apparently slept in another bedroom.

No idea if whatever is going on will continue today or not.

My plan for next MC.  Keep focus on the What the heck?  element of this... .beat me up about women... and then you send me a pic and are asking about her breasts and if I like them ( I do... .but kept this to myself).  Also... I would like a boundary about shows with "cheaters".  I don't think either of us should be watching.

There's also the element here that I consciously try to avoid material like this.  She knows this.  She knows I do this out of respect for myself, her... .it's not something I think my kids should be doing... so why should I.  She honors this be doing what?  Really?

We've made huge progress... .I want to keep that going forward.  I have no plant to "react" or flip out over this... .but intend to keep the focus on her actions... and the nonsensicalness (is this a word?) of this.

I fully realize that I could see myself advising others to "let this go"... .don't bite.  But... you can't "let everything go". 

So... .start asking questions... .sharpening my arguments... .my focus. 

She will most likely claim I'm "trying to make her look crazy... "  If accurately describing her actions "makes her look that way"... .so be it.

[KateCat]

So... .start asking questions... .sharpening my arguments... .my focus. 

She will most likely claim I'm "trying to make her look crazy... "  If accurately describing her actions "makes her look that way"... .so be it.

I've never found this method to be helpful, as delusions of the paranoid type seem to have a special energy all their own.

Have therapists talked with you and/or your kids specifically about mom's illness? How to think about it and how to handle it?

[jedimaster]

Well, mine has never actually sent me a pic of a naked woman, but she thinks it's cute to make sure I notice anybody that walks in a store or restaurant dressed provocatively.  "There's you one, honey!"  is her favorite line.

What she doesn't realize is at this point, IF I were interested in anyone else, as long they bathed, breathed, and didn't have BPD, everything else is negotiable.  My eyesight isn't what it used to be anyway.

[formflier]

I've never found this method to be helpful, as delusions of the paranoid type seem to have a special energy all their own.

Have therapists talked with you and/or your kids specifically about mom's illness? How to think about it and how to handle it?

Yep... .I agree... .it most likely won't be helpful or "good"... but I also think that I have to "do something".  I don't want more naked pictures.  I don't want to say she did something wrong... .but she needs to clearly know I don't want this to happen any more.

I honestly want to understand  "help me understand"... .what she was thinking... .or what the purpose was (however misguided).

I've been through a lot of whacky stuff... .I just never saw this coming... .or have a clue what to do.  I'm trying to think along the lines of a boundary to start enforcing... .I know I can't control her... .but I control me. 

I will no longer have discussions with her about attractiveness of other women... .or their parts... .or... .I don't know.  Before I would entertain those conversations... .and use them as an opportunity to validate her... .and to listen to what her emotions are really doing in there.

Yes... .we've talked with therapists.  Family therapy guy was a huge help.  Basic idea is to not "feed" it.

[vortex of confusion]

She is probably feeling insecure and was looking for one of two things. She either wanted you to say, "No, I do not find her attractive", which she will then argue about. Or, she was wanting you to validate her and tell her how pretty she is. I know this from my own experience. I have pointed out good looking women to my husband and I may have sent him a picture or two of other women. It wasn't right of me to do those things but I did them out of frustration because my husband is a sex addict and has said that I do not excite him. I have had periods of being very confused and insecure about my husband and his actions. During those times, I did things that I am not proud of because I did not have any other coping tools.

I did have somebody send me pictures of naked men once. I told him flat out, "Look, please stop sending me those pictures. I am not interested in looking at other people's parts. The only naked parts that I want to see are yours. Yes, those parts are attractive but they are not attached to you so I am NOT interested." (That may not be exactly what I said but that is the gist.)

[KateCat]

You're doing great with this tricky situation, formflier.

I'm struck with the power and simplicity of her photo-sending strategy. (That she has done this must mean that you've been showing maturity, restraint, and boundaries.) It can be read as a way to "bring it" to you--this issue that is always front and center in her mind. To maintain control and make sure your focus remains on her.

What a challenge!

[bruceli]

I've never found this method to be helpful, as delusions of the paranoid type seem to have a special energy all their own.

Have therapists talked with you and/or your kids specifically about mom's illness? How to think about it and how to handle it?

Yep... .I agree... .it most likely won't be helpful or "good"... but I also think that I have to "do something".  I don't want more naked pictures.  I don't want to say she did something wrong... .but she needs to clearly know I don't want this to happen any more.

I honestly want to understand  "help me understand"... .what she was thinking... .or what the purpose was (however misguided).

I've been through a lot of whacky stuff... .I just never saw this coming... .or have a clue what to do.  I'm trying to think along the lines of a boundary to start enforcing... .I know I can't control her... .but I control me. 

I will no longer have discussions with her about attractiveness of other women... .or their parts... .or... .I don't know.  Before I would entertain those conversations... .and use them as an opportunity to validate her... .and to listen to what her emotions are really doing in there.

Yes... .we've talked with therapists.  Family therapy guy was a huge help.  Basic idea is to not "feed" it.

Having experienced this myself, I would say baiting.  My pwPD would do these kinds of things to bait a situation so that she dysregulate about bad feelings she was having about something else like job, life, family and be able to project it on to me as an excuse for her behavior.

[formflier]

 

Update.  Went home for lunch today.

Totally fine... .I didn't mention pictures... .it was completely normal.

My plan is to go for walk... or have private time with her after I get home to chat and listen.  No distractions.

I really want to make sure I am listening... .and not "how dare you send me a naked picture... "

Yet... .I have to make sure at the end... .if we make it that far... .she hears a clear... .unambiguous... .I don't want you to send me any more.

We have done some very "light" sexting back in the day... but that was she and I.  I think she accidentally sent a text to someone other than me... .I don't think it was a pic... .just a suggestive text... .and was embarrassed.

We both agreed (years ago)... .to leave sexting to  the teenagers.

So... .what I'm trying to say... is I have no idea where should could have thought this was ok.  Although... .I've never said to her not to send them... .it never came up.

More background... .I say we still have a healthy sex life... .I am consistent about trying to flirt... .tell her she looks awesome... .I enjoy her... .enjoy having sex with her... .any way you cut it... .I don't think I have sent her any signals that say I'm not happy with her.  (I know I didn't have to send the signals for her to think things up... )

Me:  I'm really not "worried"... .I'm insanely curious to know how this got turned into an ok thing.  Since this is "new ground"... .there is some anxiety there to handle this "right". 

And... .there is a part of my that wants to chuckle at this... .

Hard to describe... .

[Jessica84]

This is female insecurity run amok! We age daily, the magazine covers get younger and younger. We are bombarded with images of models who don't even look like that in real life. BPD or not, all women want a little extra validation from time to time that we're still "hot". You're assuring her of that in every way, but maybe she needs more. My suggestion is to tell her you only have eyes for her and NO woman could compare.

Then again, maybe she's thinking of getting a breast lift and this is her way of asking to see what kind of breasts you like? Weird way to go about it, but anything's possible!

[KateCat]

Are there some private photos of well-known actresses making the rounds "virally" these past few weeks because some hacker accessed them illegally?

[formflier]

 

The Pirates of the Carribean lady posed topless for a magazine.  The only stipulation (seems to be) that they don't airbrush it. 

So... .it's her standing there with "regular looking" breasts.

So... .I guess she has on makeup... .I don't know.  I guess she is supposed to look sexy or something.

Some kind of fishnet stuff on her arms.  It's not a "medical" photo... .it's a "done up" one for a magazine.

I have no idea if the breasts are retouched or not... .

The article that goes with the pictures is talking about shooting digital versus film. 

I've read the article again and don't have a clue... .about if there is anything in the article I was supposed to notice.

[Grey Kitty]

Reaction #1: What the heck?

In more detail: Her hot button issue is jealousy and fear that you are attracted to other women.

Guessing on her motivation is hard to stop... .but dangerous to mention in conversation with her.

I might even go as far as asking her What the heck? That might have worked immediately, but the window for that has probably closed.

I'm remembering a website I once found called "Wife Approved Porn." It was by a woman who enjoyed sending erotic or sexy pix (of other women or couples) to her husband... .for the two of them it was a fun playful sort of sexting-ish thing to do. I do NOT recommend you search for this one, or mention it to your wife, FF!

I'm bringing it up because I cannot imagine that your wife sent it to you for a secure and happy reason, whatever her reason was.

I'd recommend telling her how you felt when you got it. (You've already covered this)

I'd also agree with your idea of asking her not to do it again.

[formflier]

My suggestion is to tell her you only have eyes for her and NO woman could compare.

I do this... .but have to carefully build up to this... .because if she seems to think other women compare or are better... it's invalidating... .and we have argued about this in the past.

I don't do that anymore. 

If I say she looks great... .and she huffs or disagrees... .I usually says something about "I'm sorry you feel that way... "... and I move along to another subject.

[formflier]

 

Yes... to be clear... .I had not seen it. 

She mentioned it to me.  I... not knowing it was really a naked pic... .made the pirate "aaargh" sound... .and moved on to another subject.

Later... .I went and found it... .there was other drama yesterday where it didn't appear good to bring up... .

But... .you are right... .the What the heck?  moment has passed... .but I need to address it.

[maxsterling]

But... .you are right... .the What the heck?  moment has passed... .but I need to address it.

I am going to ask you to re-evaluate how important it is to address this. 

I mention this because this just sounds like such typical BPD chaos, in that you won't likely get any kind of answer or change that will completely make the What the heck feeling go away.  And more than likely, she will wind up doing the same thing again (or similar).  Is it worth wasting your energy now trying to get her to understand something she probably won't be able to ever understand?

[Grey Kitty]

My suggestion is to tell her you only have eyes for her and NO woman could compare.

If I say she looks great... .and she huffs or disagrees.

It is a minefiled for you, FF

Your wife doesn't believe she is attractive and desirable. So when you say otherwise, it is invalidating.

Agreeing with her fears/concerns/feelings about her appearance would start WW3.



You can state your feelings (you have clearly said here that you feel she is attractive!). By making it clear that this is your personal opinion and feelings you get a little ways away from the invalidation.

You can validate her feelings... .which is dangerously close to the WW3 version.

[formflier]

 

And... .to be clear... .my wife is hot.

She is fit... .get's jealous looks from other women... .when they hear that she has 8 kids... .they are aghast... .

Max,

Yes... .this is one of those things... .where she has "upped her game"... .(maybe... .I do want to understand her reasoning)... .but I want to use this "real" incident... to somehow implement a barrier... .or move the r/s in a better direction.

Because... .I'm done listening to her accuse and wonder about met wanting other women... .thinking about them... .and then she sends me one to look at.  What the heck?

Now... .I don't want to be reactionary... .I want to be calm... .I want to focus on behavior... .I don't want to "punish"... .I'm tired of hearing about this... .and if this can be used to help me hear about women being after me a lot less... .then I'm all for it... .

Thoughts?

[maxsterling]

but I want to use this "real" incident... to somehow implement a barrier... .or move the r/s in a better direction.

Do you think she is capable of learning/growing here?  One thing I have learned in my r/s is that any time I think I can use an incident as a "teachable moment" I can expect 1) her to not understand me, and get defensive or angry 2) she may eventually understand cognitively, but that all falls apart when she is emotional - which is most of the time 3) that long-term change in her behavior is extremely unlikely.  My SO is about to be 39. She's had LOADS of teachable moments in her life.  She's had LOADS of mistakes to learn from.  And unlike most people, rather than learning from mistakes, she tends to make mistakes more frequently. 

to her accuse and wonder about met wanting other women... .thinking about them... .and then she sends me one to look at.  What the heck?

I hear ya on this one.  This same scenario over and over is extremely tiring.  And if you knew me, you would understand how being accused of cheating, flirting, looking at other women is so incredibly invalidating (and a turn off).  I'm such a loyal person who never has had any interest in casual, meaningless relationships.  She's the one who has gone through periods sleeping around, working as a stripper, cheating on people - so to hear her accuse me or even imply that I may be attracted elsewhere feels damaging to who I am at my core.

I'm not sure there is a way to easily wade this issue.  Right now, I deal with it by trying to tune it out.  Although, I think she may be catching on - so maybe there is some hope that she is learning.  I've told her before that double standards really bother me.  She's gotten defensive here, trying to explain that certain situations are not double standards.  For example - okay for her to be friends with an ex because he was a friend before she dated him, which is different than me being friends with an ex.  But recently a friend of hers was talking about throwing my SO a bachelorette party complete with strippers, etc, and my SO seemed excited and asked if that would be okay with me.  I said "sure, do whatever you want to do for fun."  And then she thought about it, and said "Wait a minute, I wouldn't be okay if you did the same thing, so maybe this is a double standard and I need to re-think this."

[formflier]

 

Thanks Max,

My history here is a bit different.

15 years of wedded bliss (lots of deployments that most likely masked issues)... .then... .things really kicked of after a natural disaster kept us out of our home.

Paranoia seems to be key... paranoia about me and other women...

So... .in my mind... it got worse "all of a sudden"... .and I made it worse... .by not knowing what I was doing for several years.  I invalidated things by using logic.

Momentum is going in right direction through counseling and me doing lessons and "right things".

One comment... .my life is getting dramatically better.  Much less "weird" BPD trait stuff... .spacing of these things are spaced out much much better... .further apart.  But... the weird stuff... .when it happens... seems to be getting weirder.

So... .if anyone remembers the story about a lady that had a snake in her basement... posted on facebook.  My wife see's it... .see's the lady and casually asks about it.  The lady says she told the preacher (our preacher) about the snake and the preacher said he would call me (yeah... .What the heck?) to handle it  Only... .I never got called... .I never knew about it... .and wife launched big investigation... .multiple counseling sessions on this one issue.

I think there was a good resolution... .in counseling... .we finally stayed calm... .and she identified that she was feeling insecure about her r/s with me... .and that I "might" have a r/s with her. (snake lady)

Anyway... .Me, wife and counselor now all agree that if this comes up in future... .I need to focus on asking her what she needs or is feeling... .rather that the details of the incident.  Made some progress on communication style as well.

Somehow... .I want to "use" this incident to make progress.  At a bare minimum... .she will know I don't want her to send me more pictures.

Thoughts?

[vortex of confusion]

Anyway... .Me, wife and counselor now all agree that if this comes up in future... .I need to focus on asking her what she needs or is feeling... .rather that the details of the incident.  Made some progress on communication style as well.

Somehow... .I want to "use" this incident to make progress.  At a bare minimum... .she will know I don't want her to send me more pictures.

Thoughts?

Is there a way that you can ask her what she was feeling when she sent you the picture?

[formflier]

 

That is kinda my plan tonight.

[formflier]

 

Well... .we had a long talk about it.  Listening to her reasoning... and her feelings went ok.  She basically thought this woman was "brave" by being "real"... and not airbrushing.  She wanted to share that with me.

I honestly don't think she was trying to be sexual or something like that.

Well... when I said that in the future I wouldn't mind getting pictures of her... .if she wanted to send them... .but I really didn't want to get pictures of other women from her... .she got up... said something under her breath... .stormed down stairs... .and... as I type is "very loudly" doing the dishes.  Bang... clang... .she has cranked up some music... .has done some loud muttering (really couldn't understand what she was saying.)

So... .hmmmm

[formflier]

 

Well... my plan is to stay put.  I'm kinda tired... .so I'll probably try to go on to sleep.

The old me probably would have went down there to check on her.  Right now... .that doesn't sound like a good plan. 

My gut says this will burn out after a while.

But my gut also tells me... this means there was more to this than the "good" talk that we had for about a hour or so.

So... .to recap the evening.  Took her out to dinner.  Place was a bit crowded... so didn't seem like good place to get into conversation like that.

We came home... snuggled in bed for a while.  Talked about nothing in particular.  Eventually had sex.  Relaxed afterwards for a while... .

I asked her what she thought about the picture she sent... .we spent over an hour talking about the picture... .what I found attractive in her... .

What I can identify with is that she appreciated that this woman was "real"... .  I have always been attracted to her (my wife) because she is real.  Not a made up "cartoonish" woman.

That all seemed fine... .until I tried to steer the talk to not getting naked pictures from her of other women.

Any thoughts on how that went south?

Sigh... .

[Turkish]

Well... .we had a long talk about it.  Listening to her reasoning... and her feelings went ok.  She basically thought this woman was "brave" by being "real"... and not airbrushing.  She wanted to share that with me.

I honestly don't think she was trying to be sexual or something like that.

Well... when I said that in the future I wouldn't mind getting pictures of her... .if she wanted to send them... .but I really didn't want to get pictures of other women from her... .she got up... said something under her breath... .stormed down stairs... .and... as I type is "very loudly" doing the dishes.  Bang... clang... .she has cranked up some music... .has done some loud muttering (really couldn't understand what she was saying.)

So... .hmmmm

It's certainly true that you don't want her to repeat this,.but between her comments about the woman being "real" and you stating that you don't want her to send you anymore pics, I missed the validation part. Did you ask her why, or what about being "real" appealed to her? Do you think that her comments might indicate, leaving the sexual nature of this aside, that she might be feeling as if she is not being "real" recently? There could be a significant subtext here.

[formflier]

 

There could be.  She also thought this lady was "brave" for going public with no airbrush... .that it could "ruin" her hollywood career.

I don't agree with that... but let it go.

The validation part was that I thought she (my wife) looked great.  At some point my wife indicated that she and the lady in the photograph looked similar.  Both are similar body styles... builds... .

I never once said lady in photograph was hot... sexy... etc etc.  I mad sure comments about that were reserved for my wife... .if she draws a connection between her and the photo... .so be it... rather than hearing me say the lady in the photo was "hot"... and then hearing me say they are similar... .and then having to figure out that he must think I am hot because I look similar to picture.

At one point during evening... .I asked her how she thought she stacked up against over women... .and she said very well.  Not in a "self absorbed" kinda  way... but honest.  And it's true... .most of the surrounding female population of that age has gained a lot of weight... .gotten nips and tucks done... etc etc

So... I agreed with that... .

Right now... .nothing comes to mind about her not being "real"... .but I'll keep thinking about it.

So... .she stayed somewhere else in the house... .for the third night in a row.  I got a decent night's sleep and I'm relaxing in the bedroom before heading down to find some breakfast.

[123Phoebe]

What I can identify with is that she appreciated that this woman was "real"... .  I have always been attracted to her (my wife) because she is real.  Not a made up "cartoonish" woman.

That all seemed fine... .until I tried to steer the talk to not getting naked pictures from her of other women.

Any thoughts on how that went south?

Sigh... .

If I had to guess, I would say that your wife felt invalidated that what started out as a "real" conversation, where her thoughts and feelings were being expressed about the bravery of this actress being willing to end her Hollywood career over no airbrushing, turned around to be about you not wanting to receive pics of naked women.  So, at that point, the good talk you two were enjoying became null and void. 

The picture in itself was not about "sex", but being comfortable in our own skin, being authentic and real.  And brave on your wife's part feeling comfortable enough in her own right to send this to you.  Perhaps to see how you'd react?  Not sure.

And then she heard, "naked women" in a derogatory sense. 

*bang clang loud muttering and music*

[formflier]

 

Could be.

And... about 10 minutes after I sent the last post... as I was getting up and moving about... .she comes in the room and hops in bed. 

I go back and hop in with her and we have nice long snuggle... .like I'm used to having with her in the morning.  We had sex... .snuggled some more... and now I'm about to head out for the day.

She didn't mention anything about the night before... .I didn't either.

I guess my plan is to hang on the MC... .in about a week... maybe little more and then bring it up then.  The point that I'm not willing to let go of... the issue in the r/s that I will not take ownership of is introducing "other women" into the r/s.

I understand she "feels" that I have done this... .but I haven't.  That is a fact that I'm not willing to budge on.  I feel no need to "bludgeon" her with that either... .I'm trying to figure out the balance.

MC seems an appropriate place to bring this up. 

I'm willing to be quiet about a lot of things... .this is not one of them.

My goal is to use this incident to get myself out of the line of fire of "theories" about me and other women.  This has been getting better... .I'm better at it.  But... .if I look to the future... .am I willing to put up with this behavior... .at this level... .long term.  No... I"m not.

Right now... I stay in line of fire... .validate... .try to understand... .etc etc.  And it's not been as abusive as it was in the past... .

Anyway... .I gotta run... .but I'm going to need help thinking through this...

[Grey Kitty]

Where it went south? I think Phoebe found the place, and so did you:

... .until I tried to steer the talk to not getting naked pictures from her of other women.

Another take on it: Talking about her concerns, and her reasons for doing sending the message to you was validating. Talking about "real" vs photoshop/cosmetic surgery. All reasonable and validating.

I don't know what you said at that point... .but your description (my emphasis) indicates that you were trying to change her behavior. Telling her what she should do. It would have felt controlling and invalidating to her. ESPECIALLY after she had been vulnerable enough to share her insecurities with you up until then.

... .so how could you have done it differently, and steered for controlled flight into terrain? (I'm not an aviator; I may have the terminology wrong )

If I could re-write your history (kinda like Groundhog Day), I'd suggest telling her that you have been attacked by her for your interest in other women too many times, and are overly sensitive and fearful about the subject. Explain your fears, and that you spent three days worrying about what to do about this email because of it.

Make it about yourself and your feelings, not about her actions, or changing them.

[formflier]

I can see that... .and I get where you are going with it Grey Kitty.  I like that.

So... .if I'm making it about me... and my feelings... .and then about my actions... .I think I have a plan that I like.

I want my r/s... my marriage to be between my wife and I.  I don't want other women involved in my relationship.  I won't participate in that any more.  I won't participate in discussions about other women being "in" my r/s... .in my marriage... .or in my thoughts.

It's not healthy for me to think about desires that I don't have.

So... .my wife can and will do what she wants.

But I will no longer participate in any of that.

[KateCat]

So... .my wife can and will do what she wants.

But I will no longer participate in any of that.

I personally have my best results with this method. My husband can contact all the attorneys he wants in an effort to sue all the people he believes are harassing him. He can contact the governor's office for the same purpose.

Your situation is especially tricky, as so much is aimed at you.

Could your wife increase time with friends, activities and interests outside the home to occupy some of the restless energy she seems to have? (Possibly not with eight kids .)