BPD vs PPD what is the difference

[Sluggo]

What is the difference in BPD and PPD (paranoid personalty disorder.  My wife was initially diagnosed with BPD from a mental health professional about 4 years ago.  However, a different who she has been seeing for 3 years says her behaviors are more in line with PPD. 

What is the difference?  Do I use the same approach with her?  Will I still benefit from these boards.  How closely are they related in symptoms and how they act out.  Any of you have in a relationship with similar behaviors.  What have you seen and experienced.   Thank you!

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

  All4BVM,

You've been here a while... .so let me ask you:

Did you read the Lessons and find them helpful?

Did you try using the tools, and did you find they improved your r/s with her?

I think those questions are more important than a specific diagnosis.

[formflier]

 

Welcome to the club... .my wife is more towards the PPD side of things... than BPD.

I'm not a mental health professional... .but... my gut take is that there is more of a "hated one" in BPD.

For me... paranoia was the standout symptom in my wife... .and she "knew" what others were thinking.

It's been a while since I've looked at the list... so these impressions are just from my r/s.

Interesting question though... .

Paranoia is a tough one to deal with... .

[Sluggo]

Hello GK,

Yes it has been a while.  Must say that I felt like I was doing well with the responses and our relationship started to feel more natural- give and take of normal daily life.  We would have arguments and there there would be reconciliation.   

The peace I experienced did come with a cost.  WHICH IS NOT WHAT THE LESSONS TAUGHT ME. I stopped  almost all communications with my mom or my sister as my wife said that would make her trust me more and make her be at peace with me.  Slowly over this last year those relationships have eroded and now we are not invited to thanksgiving, Christmas, etc due to the tension that my wife brings to their homes.    What I initially felt I was doing was helping my wife... .in hind sight I am seeing I just allowed myself to go deeper into a codependent mode.  At the time, I was thinking being a better husband.  Self sacrificing for her

Now with things sideways in my marriage again, I am brought to this point of naval gazing.  I feel like I am an addicted person who doesn't have any drugs (my wife stopped talking to me and gave me back her wedding ring), who has hit rock bottom looking at what happened and needing to change my behavior.   

So GK- in the end not so well... .but I know how to improve.  The pain in getting there is my obstacle. 

[Grey Kitty]

I hear you loud and clear that you regret your choice to give up your family to meet your wife's demands earlier.   I've made and regretted choices like that myself.

I'm not sure what you mean by this:

The peace I experienced did come with a cost.  WHICH IS NOT WHAT THE LESSONS TAUGHT ME.

Is it:

The lessons here taught you to give up your family for your wife, you now disagree?

OR

The lessons taught you against doing this, and you now regret doing it anyway?

I've got my own take on this... .but it is your answer that matters.

[Sluggo]

Is it:

The lessons here taught you to give up your family for your wife, you now disagree?

OR

The lessons taught you against doing this, and you now regret doing it anyway?

The lessons taught me not to do that... .and I regret doing it anyway. The short term reward 'turn around of my wife' was the almost instantaneous  - got my bed back the day, my wife started talking to me again, she was pleasant and fun to talk to, etc.  It was like nothing happened- and the hell had gone on 3 months. 

Now 12 months later... .I see the cost and realize it really didn't change anything.  Now I feel more lonley than before (no wife to talk with, strained relationships with family)

[Grey Kitty]

  We don't usually learn things the easy way. Sorry this one cost you so much.

Are you ready to do things differently now?

I'd recommend starting out by repairing your r/s with your family... .in a way that involves you spending time with them... .most likely without your wife.

Would your wife be more likely to go with you to see your family and make a hellish scene there? Or stay away, and just try to take it out on you when you return, or possibly burn up your phone while you are away?

[Sluggo]

Yes... .  met with Mom 2 days ago and sister (one that live closest) this coming week for lunch during work hours.  I don't have the courage to let my wife know that.

I would love to take my kids to see them.  Wife would not go personally but may physically try to stop us and be so over the top with rage when we would get home.  In her mind... .that would be taking it to the next level.   She yanked the kids out of the car last year when trying to visit Grandma and another scene last year when she took kids out of the house as they were putting on jackets to go with cousins ice skating.  She took them to a different skating rink.   

GK- I would be lying saying that I am not afraid of her.  When she is in a rage I am frighted and get embarrassed on the things that are said to me in front of the kids and in private.  Being frightened is some of my own issues growing up with a explosive father.       

[Grey Kitty]

Are you ready-to-call-911 scared of her at times?

Please read this one:

TOOLS: Domestic Violence Against Men

[Sluggo]

Last year yes I was scared.   We haven't had an episode like that since last October- where she called the police on me for not leaving the bed of our bedroom to sleep.  The Police came and left with no incidence.  rom that day I slept in the other room until I 'caved' to her demands.

She hasnt amped up like this year that but feel that it could be trending that way.  I will take to heart the experience that the DV thread shared about getting out of the situation.   

[Sluggo]

Welcome to the club... .my wife is more towards the PPD side of things... than BPD.

I'm not a mental health professional... .but... my gut take is that there is more of a "hated one" in BPD.

For me... paranoia was the standout symptom in my wife... .and she "knew" what others were thinking.

It's been a while since I've looked at the list... so these impressions are just from my r/s.

Interesting question though... .

Paranoia is a tough one to deal with... .

Thanks formflier. 

[Grey Kitty]

GK- I would be lying saying that I am not afraid of her.  When she is in a rage I am frighted and get embarrassed on the things that are said to me in front of the kids and in private.  Being frightened is some of my own issues growing up with a explosive father.       

Back to the fear... .I can say a few things about my experience with fear like that.

1. The fear is real, and facing it and really thinking about what you are afraid of is tough. But important.

2. When I thought about what I was afraid of... .I realized that she'd already done all those things I was afraid of. Many times for the most part. And I noticed that I had survived them all. That helped.

3. I've spent some time where I let those fears dictate my actions. I've spent other times where I didn't let those fears dictate my actions. (I still felt them, but I thought and made my own choices, instead of reacting)

I'm a much happier Grey Kitty when I'm not letting those fears dictate my actions.

 GK

[waverider]

Paranoia is a hard aspect to deal with as it takes on almost life threatening panic to them. Unfortunately as you have found, caving to it simply feeds it, as you validate it.

I went through a stage of this and it was the biggest trigger for abuse directed at others. The venom it provokes needs to be experienced to believe. It comes from a deep seated unfounded terror deep within them that triggers survival instinct fight mode

[Sluggo]

... I've spent some time where I let those fears dictate my actions. I've spent other times where I didn't let those fears dictate my actions. (I still felt them, but I thought and made my own choices, instead of reacting)

Gk-  Yes I let my fear of her reaction dictate a lot of what I do.  That is at the heart of the matter for my dysfunction... .I worry - conciously and unconsciously- about what I perceive others negative opinion about me and my fear of confrontation. I have always fell into the role of being friendly towards everyone, always look to the good side, ie.  PollyAnna.     For my wife... .I fear her explosive outbursts, fear the 'put downs' and the embarrassment they cause when said in front of the kids.  I fear the escalation when I stand my ground when she does those things.  I become paralyzed in my actions just trying to get by and avoid more confrontation- these confrontational moments which leads to anger, embarrassment, sadness which is what I want to avoid. 

I have 7 kids at home and I don't want to lose them or be in an arrangement that will be split time.  I grew up in a divorce home and know it is painful.  my wife knows that is how I feel and uses it to her advantage where the only boundary I can think would work is to leave the situation.   About 5 days ago she gave me back her ring and told me to find a wife that will put up with me. 

 

[Sluggo]

Paranoia is a hard aspect to deal with as it takes on almost life threatening panic to them. Unfortunately as you have found, caving to it simply feeds it, as you validate it.

I went through a stage of this and it was the biggest trigger for abuse directed at others. The venom it provokes needs to be experienced to believe. It comes from a deep seated unfounded terror deep within them that triggers survival instinct fight mode

Waverider,

I totally see that caving in feeds it.  Like a person trying to dig him self out of a hole the hole becomes bigger.  Or like giving an addicted person money which they use to get even more powerful drugs. 

And how it feeds me (my need for peace, harmony, and friendship) as when I do feed it or cave into her demands, she will become nicer and friendly to me.  Talk to me and not be so lonely and stressful in the house.  She changes on a dime.  At least last year when I caved it happened.  But slowly and surely something else comes her terrors come back for something else and the cycle begins again. 

It is very hard to deal with.     

[Grey Kitty]

  Tough situation. And you are doing the best you can.

About 5 days ago she gave me back her ring and told me to find a wife that will put up with me. 

If there is a recycle/bounce back and you return it to her... .or if you already did return it to you, I've got a suggestion for you to consider:

Refuse to pick the ring up. Say something like "I gave this ring to you, and it is yours to do with as you wish. I do not want it back from you." If you are feeling it, add something like "I am still wearing the one you gave me."

Nothing good comes from taking the bait.

[Sluggo]

Refuse to pick the ring up. Say something like "I gave this ring to you, and it is yours to do with as you wish. I do not want it back from you." If you are feeling it, add something like "I am still wearing the one you gave me."

I like that.  thank you for sharing your thoughts and support that your experience has given you.   

[Grey Kitty]

Refuse to pick the ring up. Say something like "I gave this ring to you, and it is yours to do with as you wish. I do not want it back from you." If you are feeling it, add something like "I am still wearing the one you gave me."

I like that.  thank you for sharing your thoughts and support that your experience has given you.   

You are most welcome. Confession time: I learned that one the hard way! In a fight years ago, I did offer my ring back to my wife. I think she gave it back or put it back on my finger, but that doesn't matter. In my latest round, I did take my ring off one night, for myself. The next day, I put it back on. Also for myself. (My wife wasn't around, so it wasn't making a point or creating drama... .)

I know that whether I wear my ring or not... .whether I keep my ring or not... .*I* don't care to give it back to my wife as a statement. The impulse was real... .but in the harsh light of day, it doesn't feel right to me.

[Sluggo]

Thanks for the confession.    gk.  Well wife just said she is divorcing me.  Getting ticket to go home this weekend for 2 weeks.  She says we are both miserable and causing a lot of pain.  When she comes back she wants me to say how i want things... .custody, living arrangements,  etc.   I think... .she is stronger than me as she can see it as unhealthy enough to leave.  I still have some desparate hope that it might get better.  But know i am probably thinking if she gets better.  I need to learn to be less dependent.  I think though yhat i felt some relief when she said it. 

[Grey Kitty]

  Tough news.

Well wife just said she is divorcing me.

Has she said this before?

If it is new, it probably is significant.

Other members here get a divorce threat several times a day, and have for months or years.

You don't have to believe it until she files papers.

When she comes back she wants me to say how i want things... .custody, living arrangements,  etc.

You also don't have to do this.

In fact, if she is divorcing you, you don't owe her anything of the sort.

From a negotiating perspective, it probably is better to let her speak first.

I do recommend you THINK about what you want. You just don't have to tell her anything you are thinking.

And here's the big question:

Do YOU want a divorce? Consider what is best for you and your kids. Also consider what sort of custody you can reasonably expect to get, and what you want. I'd also recommend posting on the legal board here, and talking to a lawyer.

You do have some time to think about it. That will be very hard... .and do you good.

Take good care of yourself.

 GK

[Sluggo]

Well wife just said she is divorcing me.

Has she said this before?

Yes she has.  Last year was the first time.  Hadnt been said to this degree since then.

Do YOU want a divorce?

Good question.  I don't like to live in this pain.  I feel like a person at a poker table and thinking maybe this next hand will be the one.  Meanwhile, I keep losing money but still hopeful my luck will the change.  Will next week be better... .

Not sure the damage is worse for the kids living together or separate.  If I knew it was better for the kids I would push through it. 

Update on tonight.  She did not get the plane ticket last night but took the kids and herself out of the house tonight to spend the night somewhere.  She asked me to leave the house and I said I wasnt going to.  She said then I am leaving and taking the kids. 

I'd also recommend posting on the legal board here, and talking to a lawyer.

Based on what happened tonight... .looks like time to jump over. 

[Grey Kitty]

I'd also recommend posting on the legal board here, and talking to a lawyer.

Based on what happened tonight... .looks like time to jump over. 

Well... .my "Staying" message is that this really IS more of the push-pull dynamic that pwBPD are famous for. You absolutely can't rely on her to be consistent in either a choice to go forward or to divorce... .so keep working on improving things from your end, and feel free to keep posting here.

I don't see this as a contradiction with the above, and I strongly recommend it:

You need to understand your options around divorce and custody so you can make informed choices. You will want to protect yourself and your children. Go post on the legal board and talk to a lawyer or three.