Hard Day Cont'd 6...

[MaroonLiquid]

Well, today I reached my limit with my wife's crap.  I didn't lose my temper,  get angry  or irate, but kept my cool even though my wife's controlling behavior won't stop.   I called to ask her if she would get the car that she took from me and put it in her name by calling the credit union and signing over the car she "let me have" so that I can trade it in.  She said no and that she wouldn't do anything until the divorce was final.  I said, "Wife, I called to try and work this out for the best of both of us."  She said, "Nope, I'm not interested".  I responded with, "You are being unreasonable... ." And she hung up on me.  I wrote her an email that I'm done and want your feedback before I send it.  I'm at the point where she is controlling everything in my life and keeping me from moving forward in anything.  I'm done with her controlling behavior.  I've had it... .Here is the email that I've written... .

Wife,

    I have reached my limit.  I have tried loving you, helping you, and being there for you when you've been in need even to my own detriment the last four months.  Your behavior towards me and the choices you have made the in these months are hindering my ability to move forward with life, are ungodly and are unhealthy.  Thats your choice and you will have to answer to God for those.  I'm done allowing it.  I will no longer put myself in a position to be mistreated, abused, punished, and stolen from by you.  That's not my issue.  As long as you refuse to get help, I don't have to be a part of it and that's my choice.  You either file for divorce, or I will.

Feedback?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

Also, after She hung up on me, I called her back and left a message that she would be responsible for the car note due tomorrow as I will no longer pay it.

[waverider]

If you are genuinely done then I would say you are filing for divorce, take the option out her hands otherwise its gets muddied and around you go again. If you are not willing to follow through by filing then dont send it

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm trying to give her a chance to turn and get help or file herself.  I'm also mainly trying to show her I'm done with her narcissistic controlling behavior and I'm not scared to end it anymore.  I will end it if I have to.  I love her, but it's time she get help.  I hate where we're at, but I have to change it.  The way I've been with her hasn't worked and her power plays continue and she keeps getting worse.

[Grey Kitty]

I think that hitting your limit is a great place to be. Being ready to take action to change things is important resolve. Keep that with you--it will serve you well, no matter what path you take.

Writing the letter is a great exercise for you too.

Sending it to her... .no. I'm looking at your expressed reasons:

I'm trying to give her a chance to turn and get help

If you want better behavior or reconciliation on her part... .the letter is invalidating and threatening, and a bit controlling. It won't hit her like a bolt of lightning and make her come to her senses.

or file herself.

Why do you care if she files herself? I'm not a legal strategist, but it seems that a divorce is a divorce, no matter who files the first papers.

I'm also mainly trying to show her I'm done with her narcissistic controlling behavior and I'm not scared to end it anymore.

Think about this part: "I will no longer put myself in a position to be mistreated, abused, punished, and stolen from by you". If you do proper boundary enforcement, she doesn't need to be told--She will discover that it doesn't work. Telling her this is almost like a secret code for "I'm not able to get you to stop this... .go ahead and try it again, you will probably get away with it next time too." I'd expect that sort of action from her if you let her.

If you are ready to divorce, start making plans for it. That means taking into account your needs. Children's needs. NOT her needs. The question of whether she gets help or not isn't one you can even afford to worry about anymore.

When I got myself to the point of thinking about divorce myself... .a very good friend of mine (who has been through one divorce and one separation already) said this to me:

You do not owe her any explanations ever again.

I also got this gem (edited down to apply to your situation but not mine) off the legal board. Think about it:

One of the things I've noticed on this board in particular is that the more clear your goals, the better you'll be able to develop a strategy. ... .

For understandable reasons (ie. divorce is an emotional decision plus the end of a contract), a lot of people kinda roll a bunch of goals and half-developed strategies together without even talking to a lawyer and getting the basic facts nailed down. Right now, you are working through the emotions of your attachments [r/s and stuff]. That's an early part of the process. The next step is to get clear about your goals and then consult with two or three lawyers and collect information.

[MaroonLiquid]

I think that hitting your limit is a great place to be. Being ready to take action to change things is important resolve. Keep that with you--it will serve you well, no matter what path you take.

Writing the letter is a great exercise for you too.

Sending it to her... .no. I'm looking at your expressed reasons:

I'm trying to give her a chance to turn and get help

If you want better behavior or reconciliation on her part... .the letter is invalidating and threatening, and a bit controlling. It won't hit her like a bolt of lightning and make her come to her senses.

or file herself.

Why do you care if she files herself? I'm not a legal strategist, but it seems that a divorce is a divorce, no matter who files the first papers.

I'm also mainly trying to show her I'm done with her narcissistic controlling behavior and I'm not scared to end it anymore.

Think about this part: "I will no longer put myself in a position to be mistreated, abused, punished, and stolen from by you". If you do proper boundary enforcement, she doesn't need to be told--She will discover that it doesn't work. Telling her this is almost like a secret code for "I'm not able to get you to stop this... .go ahead and try it again, you will probably get away with it next time too." I'd expect that sort of action from her if you let her.

If you are ready to divorce, start making plans for it. That means taking into account your needs. Children's needs. NOT her needs. The question of whether she gets help or not isn't one you can even afford to worry about anymore.

When I got myself to the point of thinking about divorce myself... .a very good friend of mine (who has been through one divorce and one separation already) said this to me:

You do not owe her any explanations ever again.

I also got this gem (edited down to apply to your situation but not mine) off the legal board. Think about it:

One of the things I've noticed on this board in particular is that the more clear your goals, the better you'll be able to develop a strategy. ... .

For understandable reasons (ie. divorce is an emotional decision plus the end of a contract), a lot of people kinda roll a bunch of goals and half-developed strategies together without even talking to a lawyer and getting the basic facts nailed down. Right now, you are working through the emotions of your attachments [r/s and stuff]. That's an early part of the process. The next step is to get clear about your goals and then consult with two or three lawyers and collect information.

What happened to the truth?  I feel like I'm walking on eggshells trying to not be "invalidating" when she doesn't care what the hell she does.  She is out of control.  She thinks everything she does is justified and ok.  I believe in the truth.  It's not always pretty, but I believe, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."  I have done everything I can to try and make things better and she continues to do the opposite.  I can't make her do anything and I know that, but I can't expect to get different results by doing the same things over and over.  That is the definition of insanity.  I am in a place where she is now keeping me from moving anywhere productive and she seems to love it.  I don't. 

[waverider]

The truth is you are not done, or you would be.

To tell her you are done then give her the option because you are not really sure, will be taken as a direct blaming challenge. She will not be moved to resolve the issue, never has, and never will, she will simply embroil you in more fighting. You will become even more the source of her problems.

You may be getting closer to being done, but you are not there yet. You are in despair and are still putting your hopes in demands (requiring her action) rather than boundaries (requiring your action).

If you want to make this into a boundary truth then you need to say "if you haven't sought appropriate treatment by X date then I will file for divorce", if that is where you are at. That combines giving her a chance and you taking a definite step as the default path

[MaroonLiquid]

The truth is you are not done, or you would be.

To tell her you are done then give her the option because you are not really sure, will be taken as a direct blaming challenge. She will not be moved to resolve the issue, never has, and never will, she will simply embroil you in more fighting. You will become even more the source of her problems.

You may be getting closer to being done, but you are not there yet. You are in despair and are still putting your hopes in demands (requiring her action) rather than boundaries (requiring your action).

If you want to make this into a boundary truth then you need to say "if you haven't sought appropriate treatment by X date then I will file for divorce", if that is where you are at. That combines giving her a chance and you taking a definite step as the default path

That's actually what I was looking for was how to set a proper boundary with it.  Not really good at that part.  Thank you Waverider!  And yes, I am done with the way things are, but do want to give her a chance to turn.  I do love her, but can't allow this behavior in my life anymore.  It's toxic.

[waverider]

You will need to be strong and be willing to stand by whatever you say, no matter what. ie The absolute honesty that you are aiming for in order to reestablish your values.

[Grey Kitty]

"If you haven't got appropriate treatment on date "X" I will file for divorce"

I like this kind of boundary.

Here's my recommendation: Before you state this to your wife, start planning what you will do to implement divorce. Talk to a lawyer or two. Really think about what you want to ask for, and get good legal advice about what your chances are in getting it. (You might want to ask some questions on the legal board here)

One thing I've found very useful in making tough decisions is to "Pretend" that I've decided in one direction, and start working out how it will go. Start making plans, and watch how I feel as I'm doing it. I may find that it feels right. Or I may find that it feels very wrong. This tells me a lot.

[Mutt]

MaroonLiquid,

Here's my advice. Are you really done? Or, you're frustrated.

Fear of abandonment.

It may not be a good idea to mention divorce. You may want to rethink that. It may be better to keep that to yourself.

You may trigger her and you're not really ready. It's something to think about. You may be split black.

If you're done you may want to do this quietly. Strategize. An exit plan.

Check SWOE and words you don't say to a pwBPD. You'll see "I want a divorce" in there  

Make sure this is really something that you want and I don't know if I'd set that as a boundary.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm extremely frustrated.  :)o I want a divorce?  No.  :)o I want to continue this way?  No.  I'm tired of being in limbo and tired of being taken advantage of.  I'm tired of her not working on herself or the relationship and tired of being painted black when I haven't done anything.  She is only getting worse.  I have done everything I can to change myself and change the way I react to her.  Maybe I won't tell her a "drop dead date", and I'll keep that date to myself.  She is the one threatening divorce right now and I know that it isn't uncommon.  I feel like she thinks she can do anything she wants and I'll still love her.  This is tough and I feel like the more I try and change, and the more I try and change the way I react, the more "crazy" she acts.  I finally had it and left a message that I wasn't paying her car note and she was going to figure out how to pay it the other day.  I'm venting, very frustrated and tired of going round and round with her and her mental instability... .another thing, it's almost like the more I move forward with taking care of myself, the more she dysregulates over stupid crap.  And At what point is what she doing to me NOT OKAY!  It's not and I would think I need to stand up to her crap and tell her I won't tolerate it anymore

[Grey Kitty]

I'm extremely frustrated.  :)o I want a divorce?  No.  :)o I want to continue this way?  No.

I get that you don't like either of those choices. I wouldn't either in your shoes.

The way I see it is that if YOU don't choose between divorce and status quo, you are letting your wife pick whether you get divorce or the status quo.

And signing up for whichever one she picks.

[MaroonLiquid]

What do you mean if I don't choose between divorce and status quo.  I agree with you that I need to choose, but what is my version of status quo?  Is my only option divorce?  Is that whar you are trying to tell me?

[MaroonLiquid]

My biggest thing is I don't know how to change it for the better than what I've been doing.  I'm in a rough spot.

[waverider]

If you have done and tried everything, and your life is still lousy the only option left is to leave. If that means a more fixed long term separation, or the finality of a divorce is up to you. In otherwise it's not pending what happens tomorrow/next week. More likely you wont even reconsider for another 6 months/year. Though my guess is she either wont stand for that and will divorce, or you will get so used to not being under the pump you wont go back anyway. It is more a mindset for you to stop stressing about day to day dramas and what is going to happen in the immediate future.

[Grey Kitty]

status quo = continue this way. (With all the crap your wife is currently throwing at you)

I'm saying that if you want something different, you need to change it.

Wishing that your wife will behave differently isn't a change. You've been doing that for a loong time.

You can only change your own actions and attitudes.

Giving up on making her change who she is or what she wants to do, and accepting that she is who she is, with the mental illness she has is a good start. (I wish I was more awake and could give you a better answer for now. But I'm not. Tomorrow, perhaps.)

Can you list a couple things that you are doing now that you would like to change?

[formflier]

 

What did the lawyer say about her taking the vehicle? 

If it is a "joint vehicle"... can you really take it back?

[Mutt]

status quo = continue this way. (With all the crap your wife is currently throwing at you)

I'm saying that if you want something different, you need to change it.

Wishing that your wife will behave differently isn't a change. You've been doing that for a loong time.

You can only change your own actions and attitudes.

Giving up on making her change who she is or what she wants to do, and accepting that she is who she is, with the mental illness she has is a good start. (I wish I was more awake and could give you a better answer for now. But I'm not. Tomorrow, perhaps.)

Can you list a couple things that you are doing now that you would like to change?

I'd like to add to this. It's accepting for how things ARE. Not for what you WISH them to be.

Change comes from you. Change doesn't come from someone else. Once you change everything changes.

[MaroonLiquid]

     Mutt, I have changed, and a lot over this time (almost 5 months).  I do accept her for who she is, and I know that I can't and am not trying to make her change.  I am frustrated at times with the roller coaster... .

     So my wife texts me while I was asleep last night and asked how my weekend was.  I responded this morning with, "I was asleep when you texted.  My weekend was good, how was yours?"  She told me that she was cold and missed me when she went to bed last night.  I told her I missd her too and I missed snuggling with her in this weather.  No response from that... .I will let her be. 

     This is the roller coaster I'm talking about.  Friday she is saying she, "isn't going to do anything till the divorce is final", and now "she missed me when she went to bed last night?"  It's not reasonable, and I don't know how to react to this back and forth sometimes and always feel I'm on guard.  My first thought is, "Is she going to tray and take something from me again?"  I hate feeling that way... .

[Mutt]

I understand the roller-coaster feeling and it's frustrating. Your stomach can feel like it's in knots. You can get off that rollercoaster.

Here's my take MaroonLiquid.

Depersonalize the behaviors. She's saying one thing one day and another the next. It's based on how she feels. Feelings are quicksilver. I didn't read the back story on the divorce. When she said she misses you I think she means it. She said divorce there's resentment there and something triggered this. You're right the messages are mixed. That being said she's feeling two things in a short span of time that are real to her and that's the underlying message. It's BPD and it's difficult for her to clearly communicate needs. Depersonalize to get off this rollercoaster.

It's depersonalizing the words and looking at how she feels. Which can change quickly. Kudos for doing the work for 5 months. Understand it takes time to turn the ship and it's frustrating a long the way. There's no magic pill.

Your text. Another way to communicate your T is using SET.

[Grey Kitty]

Like Mutt said.

Her feelings blow in the wind. That is pretty much the human condition. I'm sure yours do too.

She's disordered. When her feelings flap all over the place, she lets them drive her actions to follow.

You don't do that... .and drive yourself nuts trying to figure out "what she really means" when she does it. Because your mind doesn't work quite that way.

If you accept that this isn't about you, it is about her, it will help you cope with it. And accept that this is what she will continue to do.

The change you can make is to choose not to express things to her that will whipsaw her feelings around. And stop making your choices based on what way you expect her to flap in the breeze of your actions, whether it be your hopes of what she will do or your fears of what she will do.

[MaroonLiquid]

The change you can make is to choose not to express things to her that will whipsaw her feelings around. And stop making your choices based on what way you expect her to flap in the breeze of your actions, whether it be your hopes of what she will do or your fears of what she will do.

Give me an example of this... .

[Mutt]

I'll give you a tip with your text.

Validate how she feels. She needs extra validation. The back and forth is causing friction. To defuse this friction someone has to take the first step. It takes two to tango and it takes one to stop it.

That being said. She's feeling angry and resentful one day because she's triggered. She's also lonely and misses you. A good start is to communicate differently and make the situation win-win. It ends this roller coaster and things start to improve over time.

I was asleep when you texted.  My weekend was good, how was yours?

Feelings are facts to your spouse. She's lonely and she may feel irritation by saying that she's an interruption because she woke you up. You can say your T and show her empathy for how she feels.

I'd like to show you how you can communicate by text to validate how she feels and she'll feel better. Everyone wants to get heard right? With a pwBPD validation is important.

I understand. It can feel lonely when we're apart and I missed you too. We can text earlier and touch base?

SET 

[MaroonLiquid]

She texted me last night at 11, and I texted her when I woke up at 6:15... .I was just letting her know that I wasnt ignoring her.  Hope that makes it clear.  I understand what you were saying though.  She has texted me throughout this morning.  It's actually nice to hear from her.  She must be trying to paint me white... .

[ColdEthyl]

We know what you meant, Maroon. The problem is THEY don't. Learning how to effectively communicate with a pwBPD is a slow, on the job learning process I'm glad to hear she's on an upswing though

She texted me last night at 11, and I texted her when I woke up at 6:15... .I was just letting her know that I wasnt ignoring her.  Hope that makes it clear.  I understand what you were saying though.  She has texted me throughout this morning.  It's actually nice to hear from her.  She must be trying to paint me white... .

[Grey Kitty]

The change you can make is to choose not to express things to her that will whipsaw her feelings around. And stop making your choices based on what way you expect her to flap in the breeze of your actions, whether it be your hopes of what she will do or your fears of what she will do.

Give me an example of this... .

If you mention divorce to her, you WILL set her off.

No, it is absolutely not fair that she's threatening divorce on a regular basis. Still, I bet you have an emotional reaction every time she brings it up. And no, the fact that she's threatened it a bunch of times doesn't mean it won't have an impact on her.

Note... .I'm not saying you should never say something that will upset her. Sometimes your values and your boundaries force you to do so. I'm suggestion you package it well (SET).

It is wise to consider her likely reactions in how you tell her things. If you are deciding what to say based either the reaction you are hoping for... .or the reaction you fear should you say something different, that isn't going to work well.

[Mutt]

Grey Kitty has a point. Package your Truth differently. One way obviously isn't working. Another tip from me is to not throw the D word around. If you've got fight left in you to save your marriage and your using the D word, you may REALLY trigger her fear of abandonment. Don't throw this word around lightly because I think your playing with fire. You may be asking for something more than you bargained for. I'm on the leaving board for a reason. I said the D word.

[formflier]

  Once you change everything changes.

Maroon,

Latch on to this truth... .latch on hard... .and put focus here.  Don't focus on "figuring out" if she is painting you white or black... .just be honest with yourself over how you have acted... what you have said and what worked well and what didn't.

Then... .make sure and stay away from things that didn't go well... .and try to reinforce things that did.

Depersonalize enough... .to make sure that when it doesn't go as you hoped... .that you don't get triggered and make it worse.

Remember... she is trying to "get to you"... .she may not consciously know this... but she keeps baiting... .make sure you don't bite.

You can make things change... .you just can't control her reaction to change... or exactly what she does... but... .you can make it change.

[MaroonLiquid]

So my wife and I texted a bunch this evening.  I validated a bunch!  She asked me if I could take her to her surgery next month to remove an ovary due to a cyst.  I validated her fear of the surgery and the conversation went well.  I'm not trying to get caught up in saying what's perfect or whether she is setting me up to use me again.  Just trying to make things better.  I love her and I do "radically accept" her.