Intimacy question

[BadKitty]

OK, so I haven't been here in awhile. I have been doing fairly well in dealing with my BPDbf. When I am feeling down, I come back to read some posts but haven't posted anything myself. The tools I have learned here are really helping.

There is just something that has really gotten me down lately. I can't seem to get to the root of the problem. I am at a loss about what I should do. I am not even sure how to start but here goes:

Most of what I've read and know from research and things, is that pwBPD have a tendency to sleep around and cheat. I have the exact opposite problem. I barely have any intimacy with my BPDbf. It does happen on occasion but not as much as I'd like.

Now the back story to this is that he had never slept with a woman until he was 35, he is now in his early 40's, and it was only a handful of times. I knew this in the beginning, that I was only the second woman he has been with. I was okay with it and have remained very patient about it, taking everything slow and at his pace.

Fast forward to now, 2 years later, and we get intimate even less. I know he wants to sometimes and I jump at the opportunity, but it is rarely. Sometimes I will try to initiate but he completely ignores me if he is watching TV, playing video games, playing on his phone, ect. Now that is pretty much all the time. He doesn't want to be bothered at all, not even talked to so long as he is "busy" doing something else.

So, when I try to bring up the subject, of course it is always my fault. He says I never try to get "frisky" or he thinks I don't like sex because he can't "get me off." Again, I try to be patient and in a loving way explain to him how a woman works and how I enjoy it. I have explained to him that I try not to get frisky while he is busy doing his thing since he doesn't like to be bothered.

I know it is a touchy subject because I don't want him to feel inadequate or insecure (which I know it does) but I need to know how to get my point across without hurting his feelings. It has caused a huge fight before. He gets mad and tells me he doesn't even want to have sex with me anymore and proceeds to tell me about how he couldn't keeps his hands of this ex girlfriend and that ex girlfriend, how one wanted to have sex with him so bad but he never would with her.

I know he is lying when he says he doesn't want to because in the next day or 2 he is all over me! It is almost always when we can't though which makes me crazy! Like when we are both walking out the door for work!

I know he isn't cheating on me because even when he isn't here, there are only 2 places hes goes. He doesn't have many friends and he surely doesn't hang out with any other women or men for that matter. He is either by himself or with his dad at the restaurant he always goes to or at his dad's house, both of which are right down the street and I see his car parked there when he is not here.

This problem is really getting to me and any advice would definitely be appreciated!

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[MissyM]

You are describing what my life was like with my dBPDh for the first 11 years of our marriage.  However, when he became addicted to drugs he started trying out sexual experiences with strippers. When he stopped drugs he switched to sex with hookers and by sex I do not mean intercourse, that was too difficult for him.

There is a great book Married and Alone by Doug Weiss that talks about intimacy anorexia.  My dBPDh suffers from intimacy anorexia/sexual anorexia and swung to the other side of the pendulum with sexual addiction.   He is in recovery for the sex addiction but really has to work not to swing back into the anorexia, as that is where he is comfortable.   I don't know if this is just a BPD issue or something else but it does seem to go along with fear of engulfment and being avoidant that BPDs can suffer with.  He used to say all the same things your BPDbf is saying, blaming me for the lack of sex and if pushed he would blame me for intimidating him sexually (since I had more experience than he did).  It is frustrating and maddening.

[BadKitty]

Thanks for sharing your story with me MissyM. So I am not alone here. Care to elaborate on what he did other than intercourse? It may be too much of a personal question, if so I understand. I ask because my BPDbf has absolutely no problem with giving or receiving oral at all. Maybe what you are talking about is completely different.

I am definitely going to check out the book though. Thank you for that suggestion.

[Grey Kitty]

Your BPDbf's sexual history (virgin 'till 35, you are his second partner) makes me wonder if this involves things unrelated to BPD.

I'm wondering... .Does he just have very very low libido? Here are a couple more personal questions... .

Does he masturbate? how often?

Does he enjoy different acts or kinds of sex than you do, or just seem uninterested?

Low libido, even being asexual isn't a problem in itself, any more than high libido is a problem. These things are only an issue if A) the person isn't happy with the condition, and/or B) it causes too much conflict in their relationship.

I'm also wondering if he could be a victim of past sexual abuse?

[MissyM]

Care are to elaborate on what he did other than intercourse? It may be too much of a personal question, if so I understand. I ask because my BPDbf has absolutely no problem with giving or receiving oral at all. Maybe what you are talking about is completely different.

It was a gradual escalation, started with hands only and then moved onto oral.  Towards the end of the 1.5 years of this behavior he attempted intercourse with 3 prostitutes. (This has all been gone over in a disclosure and polygraph).  I was shocked when it came out he was doing this because he was terrified of women and had great anxiety over sex.   (Apparently this isn't uncommon in those that use prostitutes).

Low libido, even being asexual isn't a problem in itself, any more than high libido is a problem. These things are only an issue if A) the person isn't happy with the condition, and/or B) it causes too much conflict in their relationship.

I'm also wondering if he could be a victim of past sexual abuse?

That was what my husband had been diagnosed with before he started acting out. He was told because of his sexual abuse history that he had become asexual.  This left him despondent and added to negative feelings and helped fuel his drug addiction and distorted thinking for using prostitutes.  I really discourage telling people they are asexual, particularly if they have BPD and feel full of shame anyway.  It ended up being sexual anorexia and I wish that any number of the specialists we saw had ever heard of it.  The treatment for that and dealing with an intimacy disorder are what were really needed, along with treatment for BPD.  There is also recovery for addiction, now.  Not sure if some of that would have been avoided if my dBPDh had gotten a BPD and sexual anorexia diagnosis 8 years ago. 

[TLY09]

I have similar issues with my dBPDh.  When we were dating, sex was fun and frequent.  He had just lost a lot of weight and I think was feeling very confident in himself - since then though he gained all that and then some weight back (I am also morbidly obese, we both are.  I was when we started dating too, not a new thing.)

Anyway, as he gained weight, things changed sexually, but unfortunately I don't really remember When because I didn't realize it would stay an issue.

He cheated once before we got married - 3 months prior.  We went through some counseling and felt okay with moving forward because why would he ever do it again?

Fast forward to now - we have a diagnosis in Sept of BPD and in the last year he has lied and set up hidden email accounts which he uses to solicit sexual massage partners.  Both male and female.     He says he has not been able to go through with it - but I really don't know because clearly I can't trust what he says.  But I wouldn't be surprised since he can't keep an erection once we get started either.

Sorry if this is too graphic - just trying to be honest and looking for support too. 

He never initiates sex.  We have lots of quick/tender kisses - but no making out.  Lots of cuddles and hand holding but... .nothing else.

He self pleasures frequently - I would guess at least 3 times a week if not daily.

Really hoping this is something we are able to work out through his group therapy/couples therapy/whatever other therapy.

[vortex of confusion]

You are definitely not alone.

I have been with my husband for 18 years, married 16.5. He is a sex addict. Most of the time, he resorted to fantasy and porn. I found out that even when he wasn't looking at porn, he was living in a fantasy world in his head. We had been married for 15 years before he sought out anyone outside of our relationship and that was partially my fault.

When we were first married, he preferred self pleasure and porn. I don't think he realized how many times I would wake up in the morning, walk down the hall, see what he was doing, and then turn right around and go back to bed. Sex with him has always been a bit awkward. I never thought that sex was the be all, end all of a relationship so I didn't make too big of a deal about it.

My husband never ever had a problem receiving oral or manual. Intercourse was the problem between us. He wouldn't even try to take care of me most of the time. The few times he would try, he would get frustrated and quit because I wasn't reacting the way I was supposed to.

[TLY09]

The few times he would try, he would get frustrated and quit because I wasn't reacting the way I was supposed to.

^^  You mean, not acting like a porn star ACTS in a MOVIE!  I have to  because I never thought about that with my dBPDh... .Maybe I should get a little dirtier and see if it helps.    (just kidding... .)

So nice to not be alone!

[MissyM]

He says he has not been able to go through with it - but I really don't know because clearly I can't trust what he says.  But I wouldn't be surprised since he can't keep an erection once we get started either.

I wouldn't believe that without a polygraph.  My dBPDh couldn't get a full erection either but was having the kind of sex I described, with prostitutes.   He was lying and telling me he never actually met one for about a year into his recovery for sex addiction. I just kept telling him I didn't believe him and with the right support, he finally told all of the truth with a polygraph to verify.  Vortex has had the more common experience that I hear of, escalating from porn into have sex with others.  That isn't how it worked with my dBPDH, he flipped from being sexually anorexic to having sex with others.

So nice to not be alone! Empathy

It is, even though it is terrible that we have gone through this!

[vortex of confusion]

The few times he would try, he would get frustrated and quit because I wasn't reacting the way I was supposed to.

^^  You mean, not acting like a porn star ACTS in a MOVIE!  I have to  because I never thought about that with my dBPDh... .Maybe I should get a little dirtier and see if it helps.    (just kidding... .)

Exactly! Sorry, but I am NOT a porn star. I may be good, but not that good.

All kidding aside, I did try the whole get dirtier thing. It doesn't help. It made things worse because I ended up doing things that were totally out of character and were not part of my value system. If you read some of my posts, you will see just how far I went trying to figure out how to spice things up and get him interested. Once I found a way to get him interested, I could not do it and became disgusted with him and myself.

[BadKitty]

Grey Kitty,

I'm wondering... .Does he just have very very low libido? Here are a couple more personal questions... .

Does he masturbate? how often?

Does he enjoy different acts or kinds of sex than you do, or just seem uninterested?

I think his libido is average. He admits to masturbating at least a few times a week up to 3 times a day. I am thinking it was way more often before we lived together. He is pretty much only interested in missionary, it think because it allows him to control the situation. Of course I prefer more variety but try not to push it too much or he's out.

I'm also wondering if he could be a victim of past sexual abuse?

He has shared with me that he was touched by a family member when he was young but told me no other details, I didn't pry.

One of his excuses is him being afraid of getting me pregnant (he doesn't have any children and doesn't want them and neither do I) but I have been on birth control since I was 18, now on the Depo shot and we use protection so the chances of that happening are extremely slim.

MissyM, I am so sorry to hear you went through all that with your dBPDh! That must have been really difficult for you!

TLY09, same to you and thank you for sharing. I hope the therapy does work for you guys.

I feel better hearing some of your stories.

[Grey Kitty]

I really discourage telling people they are asexual, particularly if they have BPD and feel full of shame anyway.

I agree 100%. It isn't a kind thing to say in general. If you are in a sexual r/s with them, it would be much worse, triggering, invalidating, shaming, etc.

If somebody told me that they are asexual, I would believe them. If their actions didn't match, I'd figure that there is something more to the story, like trauma from sexual abuse.

[Grey Kitty]

I think his libido is average. He admits to masturbating at least a few times a week up to 3 times a day. I am thinking it was way more often before we lived together. He is pretty much only interested in missionary, it think because it allows him to control the situation. Of course I prefer more variety but try not to push it too much or he's out.

He has shared with me that he was touched by a family member when he was young but told me no other details, I didn't pry.

Letting him handle that in his own way, at his own speed is the right thing to do.

My take is that your intimacy problems with your bf are mostly coming out of his issues and  r/s issues, rather than being the source of your r/s problems... .for now.

It sounds like you cannot negotiate the kind of sex you want with him. Ultimately, this will probably reach the point where you cannot stay in a r/s with him like this anymore. I hope you are able to firmly let him know that changes need to happen while you are still willing to stay and let him work through things. I'd let that ride for a bit longer though... .

You stated at the outset that the tools here are really helping you deal with him.

Have you been able to negotiate with him on other (non-sexual) conflicts you have with him in a successful and productive way? Especially significant things, not just who takes out the trash... .

[MissyM]

He is pretty much only interested in missionary, it think because it allows him to control the situation. Of course I prefer more variety but try not to push it too much or he's out.

That pretty much describes the 1st 11 years of our marriage.  The attempts became less and less frequent over time.

I think his libido is average. He admits to masturbating at least a few times a week up to 3 times a day.

 Sounds like a fear of intimacy, sex with self is "safer" to someone afraid of intimacy.

One of his excuses is him being afraid of getting me pregnant (he doesn't have any children and doesn't want them and neither do I) but I have been on birth control since I was 18, now on the Depo shot and we use protection so the chances of that happening are extremely slim.

My dBPDh used to say he couldn't do it before when we weren't married because of his religious background (which I believed).  After we were married, the reasons changed.  That is because they were all excuses and not the core reason, which was fear.

Do you have emotion intimacy with your BPDbf?  We always had a very low amount of emotional intimacy and whenever we had some, then I would get the push back after.

We are working on building intimacy and facing the fear that comes with that, instead of pretending everything is fine.  There is a book called Passionate Marriage that I have heard is very good for learning and building intimacy, it was recommended that we do this with a therapist.  We are starting with some new specialists on Tuesday and they have a very similar approach, attachment work and building intimacy.  There are more resources now than there were 10 years ago.  Would your BPDbf be willing to get help?  Are you willing to settle for relationship with no sex to speak of?  

If somebody told me that they are asexual, I would believe them.

I really seriously don't believe in asexual.  From a biological stand point it makes no sense, we are wired for sex.  If someone just said they didn't want food, we would recognize that as anorexia.  When the Psychologist (who is a professor at a very prestigious University) told my husband he was just asexual and not to beat himself up about it, I thought it was BS. Turns out my dBPDh was building resentment over lack of sex all that time and being BPD, had to blame someone and of course it was me!