I guess this is what we must "radically accept"

[Depression = 72% of members]

Last weekend was a complete dysregulated mess.  I applied the tools the best of my ability, and things were tough, but I think came out the best they could.

I saw this dysregulation coming on all week.  I  knew because she was spending all her energy on external things and none on herself.  100% projection to the future, and none on today.  I know this when she starts to complain about "clutter" around the house, starts endlessly going through things and organizing and throwing things out.  What she is really trying to do is organize her environment to try and control a disorganized brain.  And then it moved on to complaints about her friends, complaints about her family, worries over money - I just knew the breakdown was inevitable.

Saturday I needed to go to my parents house to collect materials for table decorations for our wedding.  Originally we were going to go together, possibly staying overnight (my parents live about an hour and a half away).  By Friday night she had decided that she no longer wanted to go, and that I would go just for the day and be home around 7-8PM.   She would stay at home and work on her own projects for the wedding. 

No sooner that I had gotten to my parents house, she was already texting me in distress.  "What should I do with myself today?".  Uggh.  She then called, I told her she does not have to do wedding things, and to just do something fun, like go see a movie.  She said that she can't afford to see a movie and that I was not helping and that I was making her stress out more. Uggh.  Typical cycle.  I tried reminding her again to focus on today and to live in the present.  No good.

I then went out to lunch with my parents, while the text bomb began.  She's "too stressed out."  the wedding is "all about me and not about her."  She is "useless" and has "no identity" (wow - her word).  That she wanted me to stop working on what I was working on.  That she no longer wanted to have a wedding.  That I was not understanding her.  that I was not responding quick enough.  I told her I was out to lunch with my parents and could talk with her later.  Not good enough.  She eventually called, and I talked to her. She was crying.  She begged me to stop what I was doing and quit working on wedding stuff.  I told her that I would stop and drive home, but I needed to rest for an hour before I could drive home safely.   That's true, I was emotionally shaken, and needed to just calm down and visit with my parents.   I then left, and got home before dinner time.

I came home and she was watching a movie on her computer, laying in bed.  She was mostly non-communicative with me.  the "whatever" mode.  So, I chose to be polite, and not engage, and wait for her to come out of her shell. Of course she eventually got mad that I was not talking to her, not fixing her problem.  I let her rant, while I sat there and just listened.  It started with her complaining about me, me responding by using the "help me understand what is going on".  She mostly took offense to that comment, but I persisted.  I said that if she is looking for me to help her, she needs to let me know how to help, and let me help.  After a bit of a rant directed at me, it then got directed inward.  She has no real friends. Her friends don't care.  Nobody understands her.  Everyone she knows is self absorbed.  She has no talents.  She doesn't know how to do anything.  Her life is meaningless and empty.  Being that I thought she was on the brink of suicide again, I did my best to reassure her and validate her.  Eventually she calmed enough that we had an okay evening.

The next morning started off bad again right after breakfast.  I don't think anything in particular set her off, she just started saying things about how I am going to go off and do my own thing and work on my projects and the house and she will be bored and lonely and have nothing to do.  I offered for her to help me with some of the projects, but that seemed to set her off worse.  She wanted to re-hash the whole thing about how she feels about the wedding again.  I told her those are worthy things to discuss, but there was no urgency, and we should focus on today, taking care of ourselves, having fun.  She did not want to hear that.  I reminded her that I could not fix her issues regarding the wedding unless she could tell me things I could do to help her with that.  Eventually she went back in the bedroom, and I eventually went back to sit with her (I was worried) and she told me to leave.  Fine.   I went outside and did my own thing.  I was careful to not leave the yard, to periodically go inside so she knew I was there, yet stay outside so that I would not make noises that irritated her.  She was in the bedroom with the door closed, I respected that.  It was hard to concentrate on my own thing and not try and go inside and fix things.  At one point, she came outside and asked what I was doing (in a grouchy voice).  I responded kindly and succinct. 

A while later she came out and said that we should go food shopping.  I agreed, and we went to the store.  Getting out of the house was good for her, but she was still mostly in the "checked out" mode.  When we got home I tried to read her mood to whether she was receptive again or not.  She was complaining of feeling dizzy.  I told her to sit/lay down and I would get her some water and a snack.  She wanted me to sit next to me, and soon she was leaning on me and crying.  She said she was extremely depressed and felt worthless and didn't know what to do.  She cried, and explained that when I left on Saturday she started to feel worthless and bad about herself. Finally, the real issue.  She is miserable and depressed, everyone else is happy and moving on with their lives.  She doesn't know what value she has.  After that, we ate dinner, and had a pretty good evening. 

Lessons learned her for me that I need to accept: 1) She is going to go through cycles. 2)  She is going to blame me or others, and it really has nothing to do with me or others.  3) I can't fix her problems.  I can give her a chance to let me help her but she needs to hold up her end of that and help me understand how to help her.  4) when she wants to shut me out, let her shut me out, but I need to let myself be available enough so when she is receptive, I can be there.  TOUGH, because my instinct is to just get away from the negativity.   Tough to stay in the next room when I know she is steaming mad.  5)  More than likely, she will come around.  If she doesn't there is nothing I can do.  6) depersonalize, depersonalize, depersonalize.  Whiny, b___y mood?  That's a given.  Outright name calling/abuse?  Know it is not about me, and try to take a break/boundary from that.  I think it is going to take more work from me here to separate the low grade bad moods from the high-grade abuse.  Sure I want to be away from both the low grade and high grade stuff, but I think I have to accept and not be hurt by the low grade stuff. 

[maxsterling]

Last weekend was a complete dysregulated mess.  I applied the tools the best of my ability, and things were tough, but I think came out the best they could.

I saw this dysregulation coming on all week.  I  knew because she was spending all her energy on external things and none on herself.  100% projection to the future, and none on today.  I know this when she starts to complain about "clutter" around the house, starts endlessly going through things and organizing and throwing things out.  What she is really trying to do is organize her environment to try and control a disorganized brain.  And then it moved on to complaints about her friends, complaints about her family, worries over money - I just knew the breakdown was inevitable.

Saturday I needed to go to my parents house to collect materials for table decorations for our wedding.  Originally we were going to go together, possibly staying overnight (my parents live about an hour and a half away).  By Friday night she had decided that she no longer wanted to go, and that I would go just for the day and be home around 7-8PM.   She would stay at home and work on her own projects for the wedding. 

No sooner that I had gotten to my parents house, she was already texting me in distress.  "What should I do with myself today?".  Uggh.  She then called, I told her she does not have to do wedding things, and to just do something fun, like go see a movie.  She said that she can't afford to see a movie and that I was not helping and that I was making her stress out more. Uggh.  Typical cycle.  I tried reminding her again to focus on today and to live in the present.  No good.

I then went out to lunch with my parents, while the text bomb began.  She's "too stressed out."  the wedding is "all about me and not about her."  She is "useless" and has "no identity" (wow - her word).  That she wanted me to stop working on what I was working on.  That she no longer wanted to have a wedding.  That I was not understanding her.  that I was not responding quick enough.  I told her I was out to lunch with my parents and could talk with her later.  Not good enough.  She eventually called, and I talked to her. She was crying.  She begged me to stop what I was doing and quit working on wedding stuff.  I told her that I would stop and drive home, but I needed to rest for an hour before I could drive home safely.   That's true, I was emotionally shaken, and needed to just calm down and visit with my parents.   I then left, and got home before dinner time.

I came home and she was watching a movie on her computer, laying in bed.  She was mostly non-communicative with me.  the "whatever" mode.  So, I chose to be polite, and not engage, and wait for her to come out of her shell. Of course she eventually got mad that I was not talking to her, not fixing her problem.  I let her rant, while I sat there and just listened.  It started with her complaining about me, me responding by using the "help me understand what is going on".  She mostly took offense to that comment, but I persisted.  I said that if she is looking for me to help her, she needs to let me know how to help, and let me help.  After a bit of a rant directed at me, it then got directed inward.  She has no real friends. Her friends don't care.  Nobody understands her.  Everyone she knows is self absorbed.  She has no talents.  She doesn't know how to do anything.  Her life is meaningless and empty.  Being that I thought she was on the brink of suicide again, I did my best to reassure her and validate her.  Eventually she calmed enough that we had an okay evening.

The next morning started off bad again right after breakfast.  I don't think anything in particular set her off, she just started saying things about how I am going to go off and do my own thing and work on my projects and the house and she will be bored and lonely and have nothing to do.  I offered for her to help me with some of the projects, but that seemed to set her off worse.  She wanted to re-hash the whole thing about how she feels about the wedding again.  I told her those are worthy things to discuss, but there was no urgency, and we should focus on today, taking care of ourselves, having fun.  She did not want to hear that.  I reminded her that I could not fix her issues regarding the wedding unless she could tell me things I could do to help her with that.  Eventually she went back in the bedroom, and I eventually went back to sit with her (I was worried) and she told me to leave.  Fine.   I went outside and did my own thing.  I was careful to not leave the yard, to periodically go inside so she knew I was there, yet stay outside so that I would not make noises that irritated her.  She was in the bedroom with the door closed, I respected that.  It was hard to concentrate on my own thing and not try and go inside and fix things.  At one point, she came outside and asked what I was doing (in a grouchy voice).  I responded kindly and succinct. 

A while later she came out and said that we should go food shopping.  I agreed, and we went to the store.  Getting out of the house was good for her, but she was still mostly in the "checked out" mode.  When we got home I tried to read her mood to whether she was receptive again or not.  She was complaining of feeling dizzy.  I told her to sit/lay down and I would get her some water and a snack.  She wanted me to sit next to me, and soon she was leaning on me and crying.  She said she was extremely depressed and felt worthless and didn't know what to do.  She cried, and explained that when I left on Saturday she started to feel worthless and bad about herself. Finally, the real issue.  She is miserable and depressed, everyone else is happy and moving on with their lives.  She doesn't know what value she has.  After that, we ate dinner, and had a pretty good evening. 

Lessons learned her for me that I need to accept: 1) She is going to go through cycles. 2)  She is going to blame me or others, and it really has nothing to do with me or others.  3) I can't fix her problems.  I can give her a chance to let me help her but she needs to hold up her end of that and help me understand how to help her.  4) when she wants to shut me out, let her shut me out, but I need to let myself be available enough so when she is receptive, I can be there.  TOUGH, because my instinct is to just get away from the negativity.   Tough to stay in the next room when I know she is steaming mad.  5)  More than likely, she will come around.  If she doesn't there is nothing I can do.  6) depersonalize, depersonalize, depersonalize.  Whiny, b___y mood?  That's a given.  Outright name calling/abuse?  Know it is not about me, and try to take a break/boundary from that.  I think it is going to take more work from me here to separate the low grade bad moods from the high-grade abuse.  Sure I want to be away from both the low grade and high grade stuff, but I think I have to accept and not be hurt by the low grade stuff. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[123Phoebe]

Max, you sound like a really sweet guy and it's nice that you look out for your fiancé.  I'm wondering at what point this is all going to become too much even for you to handle and you wind up with health issues related to stress. 

Staying true to our word means that we're that way not only with our SO's, but to other people in our life as well.  In this case, your parents.  What stopped "you" from keeping to your word and arriving home between 7-8pm?  No way can you always be there for your fiancé when she's receptive; it's not humanly possible.  Other people make up our lives!  And who determines when she's being receptive or is about to be or... .?

Self-soothing is one of the greatest gifts we can give to another.  The boards are full of people who gave their all to their SO's, denying their SO's the space to self-soothe out of fear, is what I see mainly.

Lessons learned her for me that I need to accept: 1) She is going to go through cycles. 2)  She is going to blame me or others, and it really has nothing to do with me or others.  3) I can't fix her problems.  I can give her a chance to let me help her but she needs to hold up her end of that and help me understand how to help her.  4) when she wants to shut me out, let her shut me out, but I need to let myself be available enough so when she is receptive, I can be there.  TOUGH, because my instinct is to just get away from the negativity.   Tough to stay in the next room when I know she is steaming mad.  5)  More than likely, she will come around.  If she doesn't there is nothing I can do.  6) depersonalize, depersonalize, depersonalize.  Whiny, b___y mood?  That's a given.  Outright name calling/abuse?  Know it is not about me, and try to take a break/boundary from that.  I think it is going to take more work from me here to separate the low grade bad moods from the high-grade abuse.  Sure I want to be away from both the low grade and high grade stuff, but I think I have to accept and not be hurt by the low grade stuff. 

This is a nice composite.  She has BPD, so yes, she's going to do things that fit within the criteria. 

Can I ask why you think it's a bad thing to get away from the negativity?  Can you imagine feeling good being away from the negativity?  What would that look like?

[jedimaster]

I saw this dysregulation coming on all week.  I  knew because she was spending all her energy on external things and none on herself.  100% projection to the future, and none on today.  I know this when she starts to complain about "clutter" around the house, starts endlessly going through things and organizing and throwing things out.  What she is really trying to do is organize her environment to try and control a disorganized brain.  And then it moved on to complaints about her friends, complaints about her family, worries over money - I just knew the breakdown was inevitable.

THAT was an insight I needed to see today.  My uBPDw has just had an enormous rummage sale and sold/discarded 33 years' worth of her art supplies, which have been her constant all this time.  I was utterly powerless to change her mind, and after the first attempt I decided not to try any more.  From time to time she compulsively/impulsively does things like this and is always "organizing".  It makes sense that she is trying to impose order on her disordered thoughts. 

I don't know any more about what to do about it, but I understand where it's coming from.  I wish you the best in your situation.  Take the advice others have posted and take care of yourself.  I've spent decades trying to please and placate my spouse, and have little but more BPD to show for it.  Take care of yourself; you're the only one who will.

[maxsterling]

I've got a BPD sister in law - same thing.  When she is doing bad, she's complaining about my brother's "clutter".  I had a BPD/NPD ex girlfriend. Same thing.  She was constantly complaining about other people's messes/clutter, wanting to organize other people's houses and lives.  I see it all as the same basic underlying problem - they view the world and their lives as chaos.  Controlling that outside world is a means of trying to control their inner chaos.  If they loved themselves, trusted themselves and who they are, it would be much easier for them to take care of their own business and not let the outside world bother them so much.

Things are better today.  She has gone to two AA meetings, and made herself a healthy lunch, and is going to a meditation class tonight.  She called to tell me that she is going to quit focusing on looking work, and instead focus on cutting spending and healing herself.  I totally agree with this, and where I was trying to get her to go over the weekend.  None of the rest of her worries matter if she can't take care of herself today.  She's made similar strides/comments in the past.  Let's hope this one sticks.  usually, she gets antsy and bored and decides to jump right back in the fire and quickly burns out.  At least she is deciding she needs more help. 

[jedimaster]

I think you're right.  When my wife isn't down and beating herself up, she's constantly wanting to organize other people's lives.  She's convinced she can do a better job than they can.  Everything she owns is labeled, boxed, and shelved.  She takes groceries out of the packages they come in and puts them in other packages, or she puts the packages in containers. 

At least yours is trying some things to help herself.  Mine refuses to acknowledge there is anything wrong with her.  I am working with our mutual family doctor to try to get her back on some meds that were helping, but it's a long shot.  I do hope it sticks for your SO.  I can't begin to list the classes, courses, support groups, crafts, art classes, Bible studies, yoga classes, books, business ventures, hobbies, trips, girls' nights out, weekend retreats, etc, etc, that she has been to, joined, supported, attended, purchased, etc.  Very few of them has she ever seen through to the end.  There's always something wrong, not interesting, people gossip, teacher is no good, I'm not supportive, whatever.  I wish I had seen years ago that it was just her trying to impose some order on her world, and relieve whatever emotional pain is going on inside her.

[maxsterling]

I can't begin to list the classes, courses, support groups, crafts, art classes, Bible studies, yoga classes, books, business ventures, hobbies, trips, girls' nights out, weekend retreats, etc, etc, that she has been to, joined, supported, attended, purchased, etc.  Very few of them has she ever seen through to the end.  There's always something wrong, not interesting, people gossip, teacher is no good, I'm not supportive, whatever.  I wish I had seen years ago that it was just her trying to impose some order on her world, and relieve whatever emotional pain is going on inside her.

Oh yeah!  Mine likes to buy and return things.  Get hired for jobs and quit before her first day.  Take classes that she quits after a few days.  Extremely compulsive and self-destructive behavior.  It's gotten her into a lot of trouble over her life.  She is at least self-aware (maybe to the extreme) of her BPD.

Your wife sounds a lot like that ex of mine I mentioned.  Life as in disarray, refused to accept life was in disarray, and tried this or that to try and fix the life that she would not admit was in disarray. 

[sweetheart]

Hi maxsterling,

123Phoebe made some really really valuable observations, esp the one about allowing leaving your parents and going to your fiancée. I too would have asked this question of you. This is not my understanding of RA, none of what you have written is.

If you continue to respond and react to every emotional turn/whim/expression of your fiancée as you are doing you will burn out. You are only in the beginning of your relationship and what your post suggests is that you are seriously enmeshed in this relationship and this enmesh meant is impairing your ability to respond in a way that is positive for you both.

[sweetheart]

Sorry maxsterling that read a little harsher than I heard it in my head. Just to add, your posts are always seriously considered and demonstrate great self-awareness. From following your posts I can relate a huge amount to the way your fiancée dysregulates, there are huge similarities with my h.

This is the first post I have read of yours in a while that really jarred with me, hence my knee-jerk response.

[honeybadger]

Your story resonates with me to a sickening degree. I see myself in you. We become punching bugs. Amazing what we put up with. The simplest things become fodder for drama and heartbreak.

If you decide to stay in the relationship, you just need to find ways to cope without losing yourself--which it sounds like you are trying to do. But unless she chooses to get help and try to change some of those behaviors, not likely that things will change. I thought I could cope with my BFs' moods, blaming me, catastrophizing, gaslighting and stonewalling But it's reached a point where my limits have been crossed and I had to set a very tough boundary (break up or come to therapy with me).

And I mean it. When I realized after our last blow out fight that I had become devalued to the point where I was just an object--a vehicle to dump blame and negativity upon, it was really the last straw.

Some questions to ask yourself:

What are you getting from this relationship?

What is your last straw? And when you answer that, think of three more even outrageous "last straws" that are even worse--because for people like us, that's the reality since they are always pushing the boundaries and buttons. Good luck. My heart goes out to you.

[maxsterling]

I want to thank you all for your responses.  They help, and give me much to think about

What are you getting from this relationship?

Good question.  My IC asks me this from time to time.  I ask myself this from time to time.  And when my SO is really down on herself, it's often because she can't see why a nice guy like me would want to be with a miserable person like her. 

The way I would answer right now, is that despite her BPD moods and drawbacks that come with that, I feel that I am with a very genuine and real person.  And that is huge for me because past and present, many people in my life I have felt were somewhat "phony".  I know who she is (unfortunately she has BPD).  And oddly (and probably different than many situations described on this site), I trust that she loves me. 

What is your last straw? And when you answer that, think of three more even outrageous "last straws" that are even worse--because for people like us, that's the reality since they are always pushing the boundaries and buttons. Good luck. My heart goes out to you.

Infidelity.  Even though I know she has cheated on past partners, I would be surprised if she cheated on me.  The cheating would certainly hurt, but the reason I consider that a "last straw" is that it would represent a regression to past bad behaviors.  One of my conditions for staying in this r/s is that her past is the past (probably a good condition for any r/s, BPD or not).  And that brings up the second "last straw" - if she gives up on working on herself.  She is a very self aware pwBPD, and actively seeks out help and admits her issues.  Of course I have to deal with many  "rock bottoms" from her before she takes action, but she does take action.  If she quits taking action and quits working on herself, my reasons for staying completely crumble. 

[meerkat1]

Max, This is the ghost of your future... .20 years from now... .Imagine all your friends gone. Imagine you simply have to stop seeing your parents, your sister, any relatives at all. The stress related to seeing those people is simply too great. Not worth the turmoil it will surely cause. You are constantly on the receiving end of emotional dysregulation, rages, insults, undue criticism, and the occasional violence. She has cheated on you many times, yet you are to blame. You have tried everything. She won't see a therapist. She won't get proper medication or therapy, again your fault. She drinks and downs pills just so she can go to sleep at night, and you are happy about it! cause that is the only time you have left for yourself.

You look back at your life, wasted. Nothing but painful memories overshadow the tiny bits of good.

You can list all the transgressions you have ever done. The seemingly innocuous mistakes that all humans make. You can list them all in order, cause she will not ever forgive for a single one, nor let you forget.

Please prepare yourself. I was not prepared for this. Still am not.

Sorry for the dark post, it needed said.

[KateCat]

Max, I promise never to post on one of your threads again if you promise me you will never be one of the guys who lament on this forum that he missed a parent's funeral due to fear of his wife's anger.

Deal?