What IS real about them?

[Harlygirl]

Is there any part of them that IS real?... .Is it ALL smoke and mirrors?  ... .We must have loved SOMETHING real? ... .Didn't we? ... .Is it possible that there was a part of them... .however small... .that did did love us?

[Hawk Ridge]

I want to believe her feelings for me were real.  I am curious to see the answers to this very good question.

[Caredverymuch]

Is there any part of them that IS real?... .Is it ALL smoke and mirrors?  ... .We must have loved SOMETHING real? ... .Didn't we? ... .Is it possible that there was a part of them... .however small... .that did did love us?

Yes. Their feelings for us were very real. At the time.  It was not all smoke and mirrors. We loved a very real person. They did love us. As best that they could love.

It was not a small part of them.  It was every consuming part of them that loved us. 

Until they couldn't handle it anymore.

The disorder wins every time.

[thatwasthat]

My opinion:

I think, although only theoretically and never in practical way, it is possible to look at them without the disorder.

at the same time I think it is not possible to have an absolute clear view of the person without the disorder since it is a deeply routed part of themselves.

In my case... .  I think I can see "her" in the early stages of the relationship.

Sure,  I was a replacement  for someone else.  But these are the circumstances and can be somehow out aside for this pov.

Yeah.  She idolized me. But we can also reduce this by looking through it with a de-idolizing filter.

She mirrored me,  I'm sure.  But from what I have read on here not to the extent some of you have experienced. She always had opinions and views that weren't congruent with mine.

so what's left... .  If we apply this theoretical filter... .

I think I saw a girl that was striving to find something she knew existed.  But at the same time had no idea how to handle it.

Apart from what can be considered unhealthy adoration (letters she wrote etc) there was something that, to this day I believe, can't be faked.

She showed to be very thoughtful.

That being said... .  There are other thoughtful girls out there. And they aren't out to destroy your life out of some perceived let down. 

I don't want to have anything to do with her anymore. EVER.

[Deeno02]

Not sure. I just feel used. Maybe she did. I know i was all in, but I think it was a fantasy and a way for her to feel wanted. Otherwise, I was just a replacement.

[outside9x]

I tend to agree, they did love us, but remember, their emotional illness causes them to put as on a pedestal then as time goes on it switches wildly back and forth to love, then hate and rage with it leaning more to hate/rage.  Both parts, the ideal part  and the painted us black  is both a part of the disorder.

I used to think like some, oh, I only wish she could return to the loving or normal side.  There is no normal side in a close relationship.  Both parts, the real good, and awful bad are all part of their BPD.

[myself]

Everything is real. The love, the lies, projections, all of it.

What they're running from, and what they're running towards.

Many of us stayed because of that connection with their realness.

[peiper]

Personally I think their in love with being in love. I don't think they know who they are as people. Looking back I can see how she changed her views to mirror mine, politics, abortion and her son in law. For myself I fell for a fantasy she created after learning who I am. The reality is it always changed, she'd agree with everything I believed then would catch herself and turn around and disagree with everything the next day. Kind of like she over extended herself and had to get part back.

[peiper]

My opinion:

I think, although only theoretically and never in practical way, it is possible to look at them without the disorder.

at the same time I think it is not possible to have an absolute clear view of the person without the disorder since it is a deeply routed part of themselves.

In my case... .  I think I can see "her" in the early stages of the relationship.

Sure,  I was a replacement  for someone else.  But these are the circumstances and can be somehow out aside for this pov.

Yeah.  She idolized me. But we can also reduce this by looking through it with a de-idolizing filter.

She mirrored me,  I'm sure.  But from what I have read on here not to the extent some of you have experienced. She always had opinions and views that weren't congruent with mine.

so what's left... .  If we apply this theoretical filter... .

I think I saw a girl that was striving to find something she knew existed.  But at the same time had no idea how to handle it.

Apart from what can be considered unhealthy adoration (letters she wrote etc) there was something that, to this day I believe, can't be faked.

She showed to be very thoughtful.

That being said... .  There are other thoughtful girls out there. And they aren't out to destroy your life out of some perceived let down. 

I don't want to have anything to do with her anymore. EVER.

Amen to EVER !

[CareTaker]

Sorry guys. These woman don't love you. You nothing to them, except a supply to their unreasonable demands. Nothing else.

And the day you stop the supply, they simply find another. At 34 my ex has never had a serious job. Goes from one bed to the other, always playing victim. And moving from town to town, city to city and country to country. No consistency, always must be the centre of attraction and living the good life.

Did YOU love them? NOPE... .!

You cannot love such a dysfunctional person. No one will ever do that.

Love is unconditional affection with no limits or conditions. Think about that!

Compare this relationship to any of your previous ones with normal people. There is a very big difference.

You smoke, and you know it is bad for you. So why don't you stop? Because you get very bad withdrawal symptoms. So you end up going to buy another packet of cigarettes just to relieve the craving.

I cannot count how many times we broke up/made up over a 3 year period. I knew this was bad for me, yet I kept going back. Until the day I decided to rather put up with the withdrawal. And I left.

Her push/pull ways, the constant verbal abuse and her being the centre of attention causes a chemical imbalance in your brain, much the same as any other addiction. Therefore you think you "miss" them when they not around and you truly love them. If that is so, then I am in love with my cigarettes as well.

This is the hard reality. Accept it, and once your mind clears you will realize that you just cannot have a functional relationship with a dysfunctional person.

What is real about them? Their constant insecurity and how they set you up to supply their demands. My ex wanted a baby, and was quite happy to marry me. Just as long as I kept supplying her demands. But the goal posts always change, and you never get to the end of the list. So in reality, she will NEVER be satisfied with what she has. There will always be something else she must have to fulfil that empty space in her. Mine often said she wishes she a multi millionaire so she could buy all the things she wants. Even if her wish comes true, her disorder will never allow her to have inner peace. Simply because the things she needs in her life, are all materialist.

A happy person doesn't need materialistic things to be complete, they have a inner peace and live in the present moment of time. They happy with what they got, and create opportunities to better their standard of living.

A Borderline has a huge emptiness inside, and thinks the only way to fill it is to find someone (any one) to supply their demands. Therefore they go through life living in the future (dreaming of things to have) while carrying the past with them. This creates imbalance in the brain and the confusion of the relationship you experiencing. 

[MrConfusedWithItAll]

The feelings of a three year old are very real indeed. Waking up in the morning, when my ex was in a semi conscious state - she would sound exactly like a three year old.  That is around where their emotional maturity lies.  Immature emotions firing alongside an adult intellect.  That is what is real.  You cannot have an enduring relationship in the traditional sense with these people.  If you really want it - be prepared for the constant cheating, lies and disputes. I grew up with dysfunctional parents. They were the kids - and we were the adults.  FOO issues created by this abuse allowed me to fall in love with a BPD.  So sad - but now I am beginning to recover.

[Blimblam]

If they loved you it was real for them. What they projected on to us and us onto them gets filtered through our associations from our past reliving those experiences. In psychology it's known as transference and counter transference.

www.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference

The concept of transference arose from Freud in his correspondence with Carl Jung and  Carl jungs patient Sabina Spielrien, who seems highly likely was a pwBPD.

Carl Jung states his concept of the anima being based on a former patient who is extremely likely was Sabina Spielrien. On youtube their are videos of the feminine archetype and anima projection, the latter being video with an excerpt from his book Man and his symbols. 

[peiper]

Sorry guys. These woman don't love you. You nothing to them, except a supply to their unreasonable demands. Nothing else.

And the day you stop the supply, they simply find another. At 34 my ex has never had a serious job. Goes from one bed to the other, always playing victim. And moving from town to town, city to city and country to country. No consistency, always must be the centre of attraction and living the good life.

Did YOU love them? NOPE... .!

You cannot love such a dysfunctional person. No one will ever do that.

Love is unconditional affection with no limits or conditions. Think about that!

Compare this relationship to any of your previous ones with normal people. There is a very big difference.

You smoke, and you know it is bad for you. So why don't you stop? Because you get very bad withdrawal symptoms. So you end up going to buy another packet of cigarettes just to relieve the craving.

I cannot count how many times we broke up/made up over a 3 year period. I knew this was bad for me, yet I kept going back. Until the day I decided to rather put up with the withdrawal. And I left.

Her push/pull ways, the constant verbal abuse and her being the centre of attention causes a chemical imbalance in your brain, much the same as any other addiction. Therefore you think you "miss" them when they not around and you truly love them. If that is so, then I am in love with my cigarettes as well.

This is the hard reality. Accept it, and once your mind clears you will realize that you just cannot have a functional relationship with a dysfunctional person.

What is real about them? Their constant insecurity and how they set you up to supply their demands. My ex wanted a baby, and was quite happy to marry me. Just as long as I kept supplying her demands. But the goal posts always change, and you never get to the end of the list. So in reality, she will NEVER be satisfied with what she has. There will always be something else she must have to fulfil that empty space in her. Mine often said she wishes she a multi millionaire so she could buy all the things she wants. Even if her wish comes true, her disorder will never allow her to have inner peace. Simply because the things she needs in her life, are all materialist.

A happy person doesn't need materialistic things to be complete, they have a inner peace and live in the present moment of time. They happy with what they got, and create opportunities to better their standard of living.

A Borderline has a huge emptiness inside, and thinks the only way to fill it is to find someone (any one) to supply their demands. Therefore they go through life living in the future (dreaming of things to have) while carrying the past with them. This creates imbalance in the brain and the confusion of the relationship you experiencing. 

Very well put.

[FrenchConnection]

Sorry guys. These woman don't love you. You nothing to them, except a supply to their unreasonable demands. Nothing else.

And the day you stop the supply, they simply find another. At 34 my ex has never had a serious job. Goes from one bed to the other, always playing victim. And moving from town to town, city to city and country to country. No consistency, always must be the centre of attraction and living the good life.

CareTaker,

I am curious about your post and observation.  My ex BPD girlfriend also never had a serious job all her life.  She did some amazing jobs of high importance in the past but never for very long.  And i have no evidence of her past employment.  Only her word.  But i found it always incredible that she is in a bad place financially today with all her professional work history from the past.  Today she has a part time job working at a elementary school.

Oh and she is taking classes to become a psychoanalyst.  ... .

Also, she has a history of moving place to place.  City to city and also 4 or 5 countries.

Always telling me it was to escape people who wanted to harm her.

I always found it curious.  It is parallel to your story.

[CareTaker]

CareTaker,

I am curious about your post and observation

Yes, very much. It is a common thing for them. My ex, at 34, has NO previous work experience, other than a few months at a call centre. In her mind she is this famous model, but in reality she is just a child who lives in a dream world.

I met her about 4 years ago just after a break up. Strange, but I got to know someone who knew her ex and this person told me the ex had actually bought her a car. But she couldn't drive it, seeing she had no licence. The trauma from the relationship caused him to land in hospital. I think he had a stroke or something similar.

At that time, she told me she is going overseas for 2 weeks, and is looking forward to us being together when she gets back. She asked me for spending money, which I never gave and was ignored from that moment on.

She left and stayed away for about 8 months. Then she came back, and I got in contact with her again. Then our 3 years of hell started.

So, in the last 4 years, she had the ex (who bought the car), then we had a brief fling, then she left for someone in another country, he dumped her and I picked up the pieces when she returned. Now she is with my replacement.

Anyone will do, just as long as they can keep up to the demands. But beware of the day you reach your senses and decide to shut down the supply.

[guy4caligirl]

Supply , I hear that a lot from members what is the "supplies " they need beside money I gave her all I can  ?

[guy4caligirl]

Caretaker 

What happens when you cut the supplies after she is gone for 4 months and still ask me to help with money while she is with my replacement I never did  but once a couple of hundreds that was a month ago while I was still in the fog .

but a few days ago I said no way again your on your own ?

[CareTaker]

from members what is the "supplies " they need beside money

Borderlines constantly need many things to fill their emptiness. Mostly materialistic things.

Houses, cars, and yes, money.

Mine also needed to have a baby and get married.

So all these things mentioned above, do not fill their emptiness, and you constantly will have a new list of demands. Whether it be new furniture, an overseas trip or anything that comes into their minds. Because everything is all about them, and not you, it is up to you to supply the demand, whether you can afford it or not.

Due to a very weak self image, they constantly need reassurance on outward things, like how beautiful they are. How sexy or smart they dress. The nice new shoes. The great effort she went to making a lovely supper. This they will get from anyone, and therefore you will often find these people loading hundreds of pics on FB, for compliments.

Sadly, these are all materialistic needs, and doesn't feed the soul only the mind. Therefore there is never an end to it, and all this attention is only temporarily. It passes and new reassurance is needed with a couple of days.

The only true way to be at peace with yourself, is to feed your soul. Live in the present and be happy and thankful for what you now have.

[CareTaker]

Caretaker 

What happens when you cut the supplies

The day you cut the supplies, is the day the relationship is over. She no longer has use for you, and will replace you with anyone, and I should rather say anything, just as long as this person can live up to her expectations.

The love and attention you felt, was just a way to manipulate you to live up to her demands. Any demand not met, will be punished by harsh and cruel hate words. She will insult you like no one ever has done before. Just to make you feel bad.

But don't feel bad, it is her way to just break another one of your borders so she can suck more life out you.

[Blimblam]

Caretaker 

What happens when you cut the supplies

The day you cut the supplies, is the day the relationship is over. She no longer has use for you, and will replace you with anyone, and I should rather say anything, just as long as this person can live up to her expectations.

The love and attention you felt, was just a way to manipulate you to live up to her demands. Any demand not met, will be punished by harsh and cruel hate words. She will insult you like no one ever has done before. Just to make you feel bad.

But don't feel bad, it is her way to just break another one of your borders so she can suck more life out you.

Caretaker I think you may be projecting a bit here. My experience was similiar in the end of being used and replaced. But my ex never talked crap to my face only behind my back. Lol. As far as if he felt love or she loved him we can't really know because we weren't in their relationship. I know that I loved my ex and it was real and my ex loved me in her need based way but it was real and intense. The concept that helped me come to terms with this is the way a borderline has a comparemtaliZed personality so the idealization is real and te devaluation is real as well.

[guy4caligirl]

CARETAKER

I hear from her she is with my replacement but living at a friend's house , he treats her with  respect and she want to marry him she said but lies is  another liquid that runs in their blood .

Now she is totally broke to the point of she has nothing to the point that she has no money for a box of tissues she said , I know she kept in touch with me just for money , but again never gave her any since she was gone 4 months ago. Now after she gave up because I did not budge to her manipulations, she is changing her number and she does not want any contact from me , I said I am ok , and told her I am now going on dates so I am fine Pissed off yes she was .

Looks like my replacement has maybe a job or not could be living with his parents , abiouvsley  has no money so why does she keeps him anyway ?

[guy4caligirl]

Caretaker 

What happens when you cut the supplies

The day you cut the supplies, is the day the relationship is over. She no longer has use for you, and will replace you with anyone, and I should rather say anything, just as long as this person can live up to her expectations.

The love and attention you felt, was just a way to manipulate you to live up to her demands. Any demand not met, will be punished by harsh and cruel hate words. She will insult you like no one ever has done before. Just to make you feel bad.

But don't feel bad, it is her way to just break another one of your borders so she can suck more life out you.

Caretaker I think you may be projecting a bit here. My experience was similiar in the end of being used and replaced. But my ex never talked crap to my face only behind my back. Lol. As far as if he felt love or she loved him we can't really know because we weren't in their relationship. I know that I loved my ex and it was real and my ex loved me in her need based way but it was real and intense. The concept that helped me come to terms with this is the way a borderline has a comparemtaliZed personality so the idealization is real and te devaluation is real as well.

BILMBLAM I agree with you I also agree for a certain degree with CARETAKER but you are more familiar to my case .Thank you

[Blimblam]

Caretaker  

What happens when you cut the supplies

The day you cut the supplies, is the day the relationship is over. She no longer has use for you, and will replace you with anyone, and I should rather say anything, just as long as this person can live up to her expectations.

The love and attention you felt, was just a way to manipulate you to live up to her demands. Any demand not met, will be punished by harsh and cruel hate words. She will insult you like no one ever has done before. Just to make you feel bad.

But don't feel bad, it is her way to just break another one of your borders so she can suck more life out you.

Caretaker I think you may be projecting a bit here. My experience was similiar in the end of being used and replaced. But my ex never talked crap to my face only behind my back. Lol. As far as if he felt love or she loved him we can't really know because we weren't in their relationship. I know that I loved my ex and it was real and my ex loved me in her need based way but it was real and intense. The concept that helped me come to terms with this is the way a borderline has a comparemtaliZed personality so the idealization is real and te devaluation is real as well.

BILMBLAM I agree with you I also agree for a certain degree with CARETAKER but you are more familiar to my case .Thank you

Caretakers right though in the end they can often become ruthless users and incredibly manipulative.  It is shocking but it is how many of them operate. Don't enable that behavior!

It's why I ended up not recycling my ex because she was disrespectful.

[guy4caligirl]

Caretaker  

What happens when you cut the supplies

The day you cut the supplies, is the day the relationship is over. She no longer has use for you, and will replace you with anyone, and I should rather say anything, just as long as this person can live up to her expectations.

The love and attention you felt, was just a way to manipulate you to live up to her demands. Any demand not met, will be punished by harsh and cruel hate words. She will insult you like no one ever has done before. Just to make you feel bad.

But don't feel bad, it is her way to just break another one of your borders so she can suck more life out you.

Caretaker I think you may be projecting a bit here. My experience was similiar in the end of being used and replaced. But my ex never talked crap to my face only behind my back. Lol. As far as if he felt love or she loved him we can't really know because we weren't in their relationship. I know that I loved my ex and it was real and my ex loved me in her need based way but it was real and intense. The concept that helped me come to terms with this is the way a borderline has a comparemtaliZed personality so the idealization is real and te devaluation is real as well.

BILMBLAM I agree with you I also agree for a certain degree with CARETAKER but you are more familiar to my case .Thank you

Caretakers right though in the end they can often become ruthless users and incredibly manipulative.  It is shocking but it is how many of them operate. Don't enable that behavior!

It's why I ended up not recycling my ex because she was disrespectful.

Thank you both ! it's true, what a disorder !

[going places]

Is there any part of them that IS real?... .Is it ALL smoke and mirrors?  ... .We must have loved SOMETHING real? ... .Didn't we? ... .Is it possible that there was a part of them... .however small... .that did did love us?

For me personally?

No, none of it was real.

Sad... .it was 25 years of my life.

There were too many lies too many deceptions (not 'quite' a lie, but gross omission of the truth), and too many inconsistantcies... .for me to believe ANYTHING was real.

My ex is incapable of loving anything other than himself, his pleasures, his comfort, and his desires.

Totally, incapable.

That's not on me.

I gave it my 100% +4.

I loved and trusted with my whole heart.

It was taken advantage of, abused, and discarded.

That's not on me. Not one bit.

[Deeno02]

Caretaker 

What happens when you cut the supplies

The day you cut the supplies, is the day the relationship is over. She no longer has use for you, and will replace you with anyone, and I should rather say anything, just as long as this person can live up to her expectations.

The love and attention you felt, was just a way to manipulate you to live up to her demands. Any demand not met, will be punished by harsh and cruel hate words. She will insult you like no one ever has done before. Just to make you feel bad.

But don't feel bad, it is her way to just break another one of your borders so she can suck more life out you.

Caretaker I think you may be projecting a bit here. My experience was similiar in the end of being used and replaced. But my ex never talked crap to my face only behind my back. Lol. As far as if he felt love or she loved him we can't really know because we weren't in their relationship. I know that I loved my ex and it was real and my ex loved me in her need based way but it was real and intense. The concept that helped me come to terms with this is the way a borderline has a comparemtaliZed personality so the idealization is real and te devaluation is real as well.

As you stated Blim, everyone's relationship is different, yet the same. Mine talked crap to my face in such a easy, firm manner, I had to think if I was being insulted or not. I would have preferred to have been raged at rather than the the way she insulted me. The Rage did come later though... jeez. My point is that BPD'ers are different yet follow much of the same script. I don't know if mine loved me, seemed like it, but I was kept hidden from most of her friends and family, like she was embarrassed of me, but I was good enough for now. That's pretty much what I deal with in Therapy. Why wasn't I good enough. Why wasn't I totally loved for being me.

[Blimblam]

Caretaker 

What happens when you cut the supplies

The day you cut the supplies, is the day the relationship is over. She no longer has use for you, and will replace you with anyone, and I should rather say anything, just as long as this person can live up to her expectations.

The love and attention you felt, was just a way to manipulate you to live up to her demands. Any demand not met, will be punished by harsh and cruel hate words. She will insult you like no one ever has done before. Just to make you feel bad.

But don't feel bad, it is her way to just break another one of your borders so she can suck more life out you.

Caretaker I think you may be projecting a bit here. My experience was similiar in the end of being used and replaced. But my ex never talked crap to my face only behind my back. Lol. As far as if he felt love or she loved him we can't really know because we weren't in their relationship. I know that I loved my ex and it was real and my ex loved me in her need based way but it was real and intense. The concept that helped me come to terms with this is the way a borderline has a comparemtaliZed personality so the idealization is real and te devaluation is real as well.

As you stated Blim, everyone's relationship is different, yet the same. Mine talked crap to my face in such a easy, firm manner, I had to think if I was being insulted or not. I would have preferred to have been raged at rather than the the way she insulted me. The Rage did come later though... jeez. My point is that BPD'ers are different yet follow much of the same script. I don't know if mine loved me, seemed like it, but I was kept hidden from most of her friends and family, like she was embarrassed of me, but I was good enough for now. That's pretty much what I deal with in Therapy. Why wasn't I good enough. Why wasn't I totally loved for being me.

My first borderline ex loved the crap out of me but she always held a part of herself back like a secret.  I always wondered why like I wasn't good enough for her to reveal herself to me fully. What I realized is she didn't trust herself. She didn't trust the relationship. And ultimately she has a hard time loving herself and keeping her sanity together.

[Targeted]

I think the only thing that is real about them is the disorder itself.

My exGF even before we got together expressed her disdain for bikers.  She even expresses this on her dating page, A lot of ranting and raving and negativity towards bikers.

But then she was with me  and all of my tattoos and motorcycles were not a problem during idealisation phase. We actually have nice pictures of us together on the bike her in her brand-new Harley gear.   Then it was devaluation and back to hating bikers on the dating page.

Go figure.  Did she really hate bikers?  If so Why was I her longest relationship then?

I think the only thing that is real about them is the emptiness of a self

[Mutt]

Yes. Their feelings for us were very real. At the time.  It was not all smoke and mirrors. We loved a very real person. They did love us. As best that they could love.

It was not a small part of them.  It was every consuming part of them that loved us.  

Until they couldn't handle it anymore.

The disorder wins every time.

Things weren't always polarized with my ex. What I'm saying is there were times where it wasn't "I love you, I hate you" Difficult to see when we're hurt and grieving. She also had many positive qualities, she showed she had compassion, empathy, and love. Albeit, there were also times it was one extreme to the other, confusing and painful. The disorder is self-destructive and she lacks impulse control. I can tell through the emotional immaturity that the break-up pains her. She's going to have to live with her impulsive choices.

I'm not sure that I understand "the disorder wins everytime" The disorder destroys the self and causes much collateral damage. She suffers and loved ones suffer due to her illness. Nobody wins. The key is to detach, learn about the disorder, don't enable and depersonalize. Win-win.

[workinprogress]

Is there any part of them that IS real?... .Is it ALL smoke and mirrors?  ... .We must have loved SOMETHING real? ... .Didn't we? ... .Is it possible that there was a part of them... .however small... .that did did love us?

Yes. Their feelings for us were very real. At the time.  It was not all smoke and mirrors. We loved a very real person. They did love us. As best that they could love.

It was not a small part of them.  It was every consuming part of them that loved us. 

Until they couldn't handle it anymore.

The disorder wins every time.

Very good quote.  Before I learned about BPD, and I had been devalued, I was so shocked by the sudden change.  I spent a great deal of time trying to figure out just what went wrong.

Then, I realized that her love for me drove her crazy.  She was obsessed with what I did every second of the day.  She was obsessed with the thought of me cheating on her, I got accused of it daily.

She was obsessed that everything that I did or said meant that I didn't love her.  I was also accused of not loving her daily.  The reality of the situation was that I gave her ever ounce of what I had.  I had exhausted myself and my resources trying to ease her inner battle over this.

Nothing was ever good enough.  Nothing was ever proof enough.

Years into the marriage she brought up doubts she had that I was cheating on her while we dated.  She created stories in her mind. 

It was impossible to convince her that I was here for the long haul. 

I think that she had to devalue me because her mind and her insecurities were killing her.  Her mind gave her constant anxiety.

If I was 5 minutes late from work I faced endless accusations.

It really was quite sad.