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Author Topic: "Do you still think I'm mad?"  (Read 509 times)
Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« on: November 25, 2014, 01:08:41 PM »

I get asked this all the time now.

":)o you still think I have BPD? "

Then more forceful "Tell me I don't have BPD"

How do you respond constructively to this question?

Tonight I said.  "Well you told me you have BP and NP traits. But we all have those traits at one time or another."

She gave me that scared/confused look in return.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2014, 01:19:40 PM »

Im sorry but that is a cop out answer. I know why you said it as you care and dont want to hurt them. You also dont want the backlash.

My ex mother in law is going through something similar with my ex wife. My ex wife has started therapy and keeps asking her mum whats wrong with her. Rather than being honest she avoidsupsetting her.

Ive told her this isnt helpful as it enables the ex to avoid facing the truth.

By enabling them you do them no favours.
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sweetheart
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2014, 01:53:59 PM »

Hello Moselle,

I haven't read your back story, is your SO diagnosed or does she have the traits of BPD/NPD?

For me i would answer honestly. My dBPDh sometimes holds his head in his hands and asks why he feels so bad. The reason he feels like this is because he is mentally ill and it impairs the way he functions in the world in a thinking and feeling way. Sometimes I just say part of having BPD and PS means that this affects the way you feel and the thoughts you think. I have also said to him that on many occasions his reality is not my reality and I can see that is really troubling for him. Sometimes he's ok with it other times he isn't.

I wonder why your wife asks this of you, do you know? It might stop her asking if you answer that you do feel that sometimes she says and does things that fall into those areas. You could try saying 'When you ask me that question I want to be as honest as I can with you but I am worried that answering will leave you feeling more upset.' Maybe gauge her feelings from there and take some baby steps toward an answer Smiling (click to insert in post)

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Moselle
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Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2014, 02:20:06 PM »

I appreciate the responses!

I found out why she brought this up. I found that my bag had been rifled through and she had found my book "Stop caretaking the Borderline Narcissist"

She had also been through my laptop (also in the bag) though she won't find anything there - I've learned my lesson on that one!

She has admitted to having NPD and BPD traits, so I'm sticking with what she is prepared to acknowledge. And when she told me, it was like ":)uh, I've known that for 10 months now", and nothing changed. She is undoubtedly BPD with NP traits. Likely NPD. 

I've tried being direct on the BPD message. It really didn't get me anywhere - only serious conflict. If I put myself in her shoes it must be very invalidating to be labelled with this. She knows she has it and that it's incurable. I've spent so much energy over the years trying to get her to change, with absolutely no effect whatsoever. So about 5 months ago I accepted she's mentally ill and it's not my job to convince her. It's not my job to fix her, It's not my job to even talk to her about it. I focus on boundaries now, validating her, and getting on with my own life.

I still baulk at the prospect of spending the rest of my life looking after someone with a serious mental illness, but there are changes, and improvements. Baby steps. I love her, so I carry on.
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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2014, 02:28:40 PM »

I told her to stop going through my stuff. That she had invaded my private space, and that it is unacceptable to me.

And she apologised, then validated my feelings. Wow! Small steps.
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sweetheart
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2014, 03:01:05 PM »

I wondered why she asked  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I used the book you have in your bag to influence the response I suggested you might use  Smiling (click to insert in post), that book really helped me move forward and make some clear informed choices about staying with my h.

Being in the caretaking role for a pw any enduring and at times serious mental illness is indeed daunting.

Over the last year I have been taking baby steps away from the caretaking role I had become enmeshed in with my h. It is starting to give us both back aspects of ourselves that had been consumed by this illness.

I am still overwhelmed at times by the impact this illness continues to have on our relationship.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2014, 03:15:27 PM »

Hi moselle

my previous post might have been a bit abrubt. Your post made meconnect my ex moyher in law pussy footing around her daughter and by doing this excusing her behaviour. An honest but caring approach is what im trying to get her to do with her daughter. Previously she would take her daughters side that it was someone else causing the problems. I have been educating her about BPD and we went through the DSM and ticked off all 9 criteria.

Although her daughter hasnt been diagnosed and thinks its a problem with her needing to become a stronger person she is at least seeing a therapist.

As you say baby steps is the key.
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Moselle
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Relationship status: Divorced
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2014, 12:18:35 AM »

Hi moselle

my previous post might have been a bit abrubt. Your post made meconnect my ex moyher in law pussy footing around her daughter and by doing this excusing her behaviour. An honest but caring approach is what im trying to get her to do with her daughter. Previously she would take her daughters side that it was someone else causing the problems. I have been educating her about BPD and we went through the DSM and ticked off all 9 criteria.

Although her daughter hasnt been diagnosed and thinks its a problem with her needing to become a stronger person she is at least seeing a therapist.

As you say baby steps is the key.

Did you say that you went through the DSM criteria with the Mother in Law? That's brilliant! My MIL, says there's nothing wrong with my wife. It means she doesn't have to acknowledge or change anything. Also that means she isn't responsible.

Therapists are therapists. Most are too scared to diagnose anything. The safe bet for them is to say, "You are exhibiting traits of a particular PD". They cant get sued for wrongful diagnosis and it's up to the patient to choose where to go with that. If she's BPD/NPD like mine with 4 years of therapy behind her, she unfortunately knows all the jargon, "splitting", "projecting", etc and uses it to try and convince me that I am the one with the disorder. NPD's are too clever. She's extremely highly functioning in the world. The perfect facade is maintained outside, but it falls apart between the walls of our home. She picks up the 4 personalities - witch, queen, waif and hermit and subjects us all to them. There are a few now who know, and have seen this side of her, so I build my support structure around us.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2014, 12:40:19 AM »

Yes I went through the DSM with the MIL. She has her daughter on the phone every day ais d is exhausting by her.

As your SO is asking you this then she is self aware there is something not right. She Is wanting you to allay her fears but by doing this you will not help her. By letting her know you think she has a problem but you are willing to support her then she may get the right treatment.

with my ex wife I used the fact that my exgf is uBPD  and went through the DSM  with her to explain what  had dealt with with her. As she resd the DSM  there was a dawning on her face. I think this is what has made her question herself and start therapy. I also mentioned what I have noticed about hormones with pwBPD and how they seem to have an effect.

I know it was a devious ploy but I feel justified as it got the message across without finger pointing.
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Moselle
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Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2014, 03:23:42 AM »

That' impressive!

I've tried working with the parents. It just isn't worth the effort. It ends up as a mess and they all blame me and tell me to stop diagnosing her. Mother has uBPD. One daughter cuts herself (I assume BPD), one is suicidal, one is a-social, and one is narcissistic, and that's not including my W. So much drama in one family. I've decided it's not worth the time and emotional effort.

Re my wife. We've had the conversations where we looked at the traits and she admits to them. She has actually come to me twice now and told me she has it. But the moment passes and she goes into denial again, blaming me for being NPD. Now I just put it in writing and send her an email about the conversation. There's no use having a rational conversation with a person who is irrational, delusional and freaking unbelievably clever NPD. I just don't try any more. If I want a rational conversation, I call a friend. A big step for me was accepting that she is seriously mentally ill, and will likely never recover. It was freeing in a way. It's not my problem, didn't cause it, can't control it.

She knows what she knows and she can choose mental health or not. It's her choice. And I actually understand why many/most BPD's don't face the truth. I hope she chooses mental health for our marriage's sake and for the children's sake, but having researched it, I realise how much courage this would take.  

Think about it. In their mind they believe they are nothing, literally nothing, don't exist as individuals. All the drama, blaming, screaming fighting, manipulating, hating is to protect that little bit of nothing. It's a fight against total annihilation. To be found out that there is nothing there. That's why the elaborate mirroring, to pretend that they are something, because if anyone finds out who she really is, it would be unbearable.
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waverider
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 05:10:45 AM »

pwBPD like answers, quick fixes and results. Admitting to the disorder is hard for them as there is no quick fix, and the "need' for someone else to fix it for them can't be sated. Hence they often retreat from it again. Retreating also means wanting the issue not to be obvious to anyone else. Hence the question about how you and others perceive them, as they have gone into hiding mode. it is normal to go in and out of this quite a bit before they have courage to own it full time and take positive steps, if they ever do.

In circumstances like this I would be asking how she perceives she is going. Then validating any good progress, managing of her emotions. Giving encouragement. The books and any other literature are there to help you make it easier to understand a little better the issues she has to deal with, improving your own interactions, so she is not struggling on her own.

Its not about being "mad" its about seeing things differently.

Forget about the parents, if they were going to be supportive they would have done it by now. They wont want to get involved with what they perceive as your responsibility now.Its just a whole new layer of frustration.
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Moselle
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Gender: Male
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 07:23:24 AM »

Thanks Waverider. That makes alot of sense. Going in and out of the delusion is a good description of it.

Unfortunately the MIL tells her there's nothing wrong with her, and it's all my fault. So she's being an active obstacle.  So be it. That's not my problem it's theirs. There's alot of shame in the family, and I'm the inconvenient source of the warm sunlight of truth shining a light in their dark places.

Next time my wife comes to me with it, I'll ask her how she perceives she's doing.

She is doing positive things. I'll focus on the positive behaviours and try to build momentum. We got through 3 chapters of "conflict couples" before the latest rage. I think it went really well, and she panicked as the process got out of her control and into healthy territory.

 
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