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Author Topic: I think I am going to quit  (Read 563 times)
AnnaK
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« on: November 27, 2014, 04:22:22 AM »

I think I am quitting.

My uBPDbf is in his family house, playing sick. He has a broken rib, but he can perfectly walk and take care of himself.

Yet he is staying on bed rest and his family delivers him alcohol and food right to bed.

For the last TWO WEEKS.

When he said he did not leave bed for 2 weeks, I was horrified and asked why the heck.

He said "but I am injured". I rightfully pointed out that a couple of days after breaking his rib in the car accident, he was here in our house walking, taking care of himself without any help and even banging doors in anger, then he took a flight for his home city, carrying a backpack and a bag without any help. No way he needs bed rest.

He was embarrassed and said it's "not that simple".

Then he said he is "at peace" and he is "keeping me off".

I realised I have been living in India for 8 weeks - 5 of them, he was staying 500km from me in his family house. I specially came here with the purpose of being with him - but he managed to convert our relationship back into long-distance affair.

Worse yet, is that alcoholism is his family disease - it used to be his father, but he quit, now he is the family alcoholic - so the Eric Bern's cycle of rescuing/prosecuting never ends. They are serving him alcohol to bed now - and in some time, they'll through him out of the house for drinking!

They act as typical codependents and enablers!

This sounds like a drastic prospective. An entire new field for manipulation gets open. I imagine hearing "If you don't obey my requirements - I will go to my mother!".

And probably in his father's house it happens the other way around. If they don't obey, he'll threaten to return to me.

And the requirements... .I don't have to explain how randomised and hopeless are those.

From the other side, his living with family will have drastic consequences for him, because he'll lose all the progress with alcohol consumption that he achieves with me (I am from non-drinking family, I am always sober, and I always make him look like an idiot, when he gets drunk - it's not hard though, because drunk people indeed look like idiots in an entirely natural way most of the time).

So I imagined the future we are going to have with him alternating between me and his mother, and I got horrified.

I eventually told him he has to get out of bed and come back in 3 days, or we are forever done, and this time it is absolutely serious and radical.

I came to india to help him overcome his addictions and move forward in life - and his staying in his family house 500 km away from me voids the very purpose.

So what should I do now?

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Mie
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2014, 05:15:49 AM »

I can't say what you should do, but I would be very shocked by this kind of behavior - and I've seen a lot.

You seem to have very clear insight of the situation, and I think you are realistic.

I wish you strength.
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AnnaK
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2014, 06:45:21 AM »

Well, I have probably seen more... .there is a thread somewhere around here as he brought a girl to the house... .just before he left to family... .yeah, with stitches and broken rib he invited a girl... .she believed she was in relationship with him for some time - six months? - and was misinformed about me. After I explained her the full situation she confronted him and later she quit.

But that did not shock me. Moreover, I took the whole thing with a healthy sense of humor

But him living away from me affects my core value - to motivate him into becoming a successful person (within his potential - but his intellectual potential is immense - he is going for PhD). I kinda can help him - but sure, not from the distance of 500km, while he is being kept in bed drunk

He lived for 5 years with his family after living with me in 2007 - and it had drastic results. So I know what I m talking

He was troubled, and drinking, when I met him in 2007 - but not so much troubled and not this much drinking. And the family is a textbook example of the "Alcoholic" game.

They lost their alcoholic (his dad turned into religious fanatic) so they made a new one

... .But indeed, I am just praying for the strength to keep temporary NC so that he recognises that now I am totally serious. I won't mind a recycle - but only with the condition that while I am in India, he lives with me, and not with his mother. With certain exceptions, but still. And then, I am not always in India - he'll have plenty of time to live with family while I m in Spain. But no - when I was in Spain, he lived in Delhi
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AnnaK
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2014, 07:13:33 AM »

PS: I am still posting in Staying board, because this is an attempt of setting a very important boundary. Not a dramatic walkout.

Hopefully, it will be just a phase - but if not, then not.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2014, 11:01:18 AM »

You are at an impasse similar to the kind I've been facing.

You can't stop him from self-destructing with his family.

You can do is tell him that watching it happen long-distance doesn't work for you as a r/s with him. And you can act in accordance with that.

Having gone to India already, how long do you need/want to stay? Given the current condition where you aren't supporting his journey toward sobriety.
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AnnaK
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2014, 09:29:43 PM »

I have 3 more weeks to stay, but I told him that coming back this week is his last chance - otherwise he won't even make 6 weeks with me out of twelve.

He probably got himself drunk to unconscious, so on Monday I'll have to go NC. Even if he returns last minute before my flight, this drama of spending time of my visit away then returning last minute to declare undying love, take the keys from me and get back drunk right away makes no sense to me. It voids my purpose.
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AnnaK
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2014, 10:16:20 AM »

Now it hit me fully, 3 days after the event, as always - my emotions lag.

I have very hard time "painting him black". Even at this point, some voice in my mind says - "... .but he is a good boy!... ."

At the same time, I feel I would enjoy breaking his nose... .literally, I am a boxer - and he is very weak now due to drinking

I feel I can only imagine this man in my life - nobody else can provide me the same emotional intensity - and I feel I need it.

But I feel extremely humiliated, that I came for 3 months, and he did not manage to stay with me even half the time.  I do not want to discuss if it was his fault or my fault... .all he is unhappy about is that I am too strong for him to break - but one can't blame me for that.

Yet it is extremely humiliating that I made it all the way to India just to stay alone.

And there is no guarantee that it would not happen again - I won't manage to come to India again in such a situation.

I won't - can't - forgive it or get over it. Every time I take ticket I will be thinking that I am just going to stay alone in the place where not even pillows retain his smell anymore

He cut contact, painted me black and he is most probably totally drunk now that I left him

Should I forgive this too? Maybe not now, maybe later? Was I really humiliated?

After all, his trip home for Diwali was by mutual consent (2 weeks), and all that happened next was just a bunch of accidents - car crash for him, emergency surgery for me... .not that I wanted him here while I was in the hospital and recovering - and that alone took me 3 weeks.

But... .he will only come to collect the keys and wish me farewell. That's unbearable.

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AnnaK
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2014, 10:28:11 AM »

Here comes my own fear.

I can forgive his attempts of triangulating or beating me up (both things failed)

But coming somewhere for a boy and finding myself all alone makes me paralysed from fear and humiliation.

Also the scene of leaving "forever" to another country makes me terrified "per se".

Looking at him, knowing that we had a chance, but we did not use it - and now it is too late.

It is the worst thing possible.

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« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2014, 12:53:40 PM »

AnnaK, though my story is a little different from yours, I can identify with what you are experiencing here.  Following graduation from college, I moved to the city where my then boyfriend/now uBPDh lived.  Shortly afterwards, he moved out of town for a different job.  Then he moved to another state for a different job , and then to yet another state for another kind of job.   All for reasons that I could make sense of at the time, but still, it hurt.  I had turned down all other job opportunities to be near him, and then he left.    

When the contract for my job ended, I decided that there was no need for me to stay in that city since he was not there.  I accepted a job elsewhere and decided I was going to break up with him because it seemed that I did not matter to him and because he caused me so much pain.   He was so upset, FOG set in with me, and he ended up moving just down the street from me in the new city that I moved to. I had no earthly idea what kind of turmoil I would live with from then until now.

And I fed him applesauce while he had flu…which was a good thing to do, but it went beyond the point that he was perfectly capable of getting up, fixing his own food, and feeding himself….until I realized he was milking it for all it was worth.  

Though it’s painful to find that you are not “the one” for someone you love and for whom you have gone out on a limb, and it’s hard to see it right now, it is better not to hang on to a man who is not looking out for your best interest.   Time really does heal.  Though you may not forget the pain, you will be able to move on.  (I can say that because my first serious college boyfriend recycled me twice and then dumped me – for someone who ended up dumping him!   )  :)on’t let this man’s behavior get the best of you.  Be strong and very brave, and look out for yourself.   You don’t need his permission for that.  

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AnnaK
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« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2014, 09:04:23 PM »

Yeah. In fact mine can move to Europe now, I know for sure. He has admission to some university for PhD

If he does it, it would be good.

I still think he made a lot of mistakes not expecting the consequences - I am not that angry at him - but going back to the place where he made me live alone is beyond acceptable for me.

Either I go live in his home city next time or he'd have to move to Europe.

PS: that's the problem with me, he expected me to feed him applesause, but I evaluated correctly the extend of his injuries (broken rib, a bump and a skin cut on the head... .no consussion), looked at him ironically and suggested to stop playing sick  I am a martial arts fighter and quite accustomed to people hanging around somewhat injured - a broken rib and a cut on the skin does not impress me too much

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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 06:16:21 PM »

But coming somewhere for a boy and finding myself all alone makes me paralysed from fear and humiliation.

... .

Looking at him, knowing that we had a chance, but we did not use it - and now it is too late.

It is the worst thing possible.

Part of this is how you think about your own actions.

For example: Your choice to spent three months in India to work on / pursue a relationship shows your good qualities too. You were willing to put some real effort into this r/s.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

(I say this after doing a Thanksgiving week road trip of almost 2000 miles--a lot of effort and expense on my part--to stop and see an old friend, visit family, and see my wife with the intention of having a very difficult conversation with her.)

I'd look at that "last chance" this way: You did your part, and you gave him a chance to show you what he would do.

 I'm really sorry that his choices were the wrong ones for you and your r/s.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) I think your efforts and dedication are commendable.
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AnnaK
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 02:31:12 AM »

I have given him a thousand of chances and I'd give him another thousand, but he just hit my weak spot this time around... .The nature of my fear is that I'd come, and he is not there (or he'd leave).

How can I come again to India, knowing he might leave me alone again and I would be just uselessly living in India?

Or can I?

Not that I am that specially bored and lonely. In the meanwhile, I had a surgery done and went through recovery period (I got my gallbladder cut out - something that was pending, but this time when I came to ER, I agreed - I was alone in Delhi, anyway, so why not do something useful), I am getting to know interesting people, I'm doing the same thing I am doing in Spain (working and doing MMA).

This is the key question, because if I can't get over this, it's probably over. Long-distance does not work, and waiting if he ever shows up in Europe or not is pointless.

But maybe I just should step over my fear and give him another chance to try and stay in Delhi when I come next time?

It was also kinda emergency situation - he broke his rib and declared he can't heal "that serious injury" away from his family. I went through the surgery alone and proved it wrong, but still.

I know that most people would say, now let him do something, but the reality is that they just don't do anything... .he'd probably hide away and get drunk or find a replacement girl.

For the history, I've forgiven him everything else, from alcoholism, to attempts to batter me (it did not end in a tragedy because I learned martial arts and I did not batter HIM just because I don't have an urge to batter men) - to him bringing a girlfriend into the house.

But this one is my personal fear - to come for the sake of a boy and to find no boy there.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 08:08:38 AM »

But this one is my personal fear - to come for the sake of a boy and to find no boy there.

Consider: You are LIVING that particular fear, today. And here's how you described it:

Excerpt
Not that I am that specially bored and lonely. In the meanwhile, I had a surgery done and went through recovery period (I got my gallbladder cut out - something that was pending, but this time when I came to ER, I agreed - I was alone in Delhi, anyway, so why not do something useful), I am getting to know interesting people, I'm doing the same thing I am doing in Spain (working and doing MMA).

How does it feel to be facing that fear this way?
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AnnaK
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2014, 08:45:02 AM »

But this one is my personal fear - to come for the sake of a boy and to find no boy there.

Consider: You are LIVING that particular fear, today. And here's how you described it:

Excerpt
Not that I am that specially bored and lonely. In the meanwhile, I had a surgery done and went through recovery period (I got my gallbladder cut out - something that was pending, but this time when I came to ER, I agreed - I was alone in Delhi, anyway, so why not do something useful), I am getting to know interesting people, I'm doing the same thing I am doing in Spain (working and doing MMA).

How does it feel to be facing that fear this way?

This seemingly simple question took me a lot of time to answer.

I suppose it feels like this:

"Oh, such a relief that I had a gallbladder to have it cut out - that's a good response to his broken rib excuse! And I was so lucky that instead of thinking in vicious circle all alone at home, I spent a week in the hospital and then two weeks having pains and upset stomach - so I barely had time to think much!"

The end result is positive though - if I were not "countering" his broken rib, I would keep suffering from gallstones attacks on and on (they were happening every 2 weeks, and last 2 times I had pancreatitis and jaundice - I waited it out at home the first time though, crazy me). That could have killed me eventually. In a way, he might have saved my life Smiling (click to insert in post)

However what I do not like, it is that after becoming provisionally healthy, I am trying to find an quick affair to "counter" his seeming indifference (which comes from a simple fact that he is intoxicated 24/7 - he keeps forgetting that I am breaking up with him!).  

Though for me personally, having an affair is pain in the... .low back Smiling (click to insert in post)

But... .if he runs to his relatives again (he did not come back yet though), I don't have much more organs left to have them cut out... .Smiling (click to insert in post)

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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2014, 11:19:59 AM »

Finding a quick affair doesn't sound like a particularly healthy choice for you. It might be a good way to get over him... .but you will feel much better about it later if you really do make a clean end first. And pwBPD are notorious for working against any sort of clean end of a r/s!

Back to my question... .you gave me a good answer about what you are doing. I meant to ask a somewhat different (and possibly more difficult!) question of you:

How do you feel about your fear, "to come for the sake of a boy and find no boy there" now?

Your stay in India sounds pretty much exactly like that fear. (After he went back to his family, at least)

You have done things to make the best of your time there, including surgery that you had been putting off, working, and spending time with interesting people.

Now that you've lived with it... .if that is indeed how it feels to you, how do you feel about the fear now?
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AnnaK
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2014, 10:10:27 PM »

I am alexytimic. I dont understand what i should say to the question "how it feels". I suppose, that when I think of it, i feel desperate - the date of my departure is imminent, and I gained no meaningful information from this visit, and it's too late to change anything.

The best of it is over now he will only be trying to have me pay his bills and "get off his back"

That's not good enough with me.

You'd say - there will be more visits. But if i am feeling that insecure and he is too drunk to even notice that we've broken up - will I ever dare to risk again? I doubt.

I already made the clear exit with this guy 7 yrs ago

It just takes making a decision and going NC.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2014, 07:07:51 AM »

I am alexytimic. I dont understand what i should say to the question "how it feels". I suppose, that when I think of it, i feel desperate - the date of my departure is imminent, and I gained no meaningful information from this visit, and it's too late to change anything.

 I've spent a lot of my life not getting to my own feelings. It isn't easy. I believe that you will find them when you are ready to.

I disagree about gaining no meaningful information from this visit.

You learned that you can't count on him to show up and be in a meaningful relationship with you. This isn't exactly new information. It sounds like he's been showing you this for a while now.

If there is something new here, it is that you believe it now in a way you didn't when you made your plans for this visit.
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AnnaK
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2014, 09:53:10 AM »

No, no... .I knew that long ago that I can't "count on him". However, I am 37, and I live alone for long time now. It does not specially concern me!

My fear is more about looking stupid than anything. If, say, I had a business in India, that would nullify the fear (I would be meeting some goals anyway)

However you are right. This visit also gave me some information, and after identifying it as a problem, I am starting to take mental inventory. There were also those 3 weeks in the beginning. And the girlfriend.

Also I thought of this

- my highest priority is that the lifestyle of remaining drunk in bed is extremely unhealthy - it made me panic when I learned of it - that same day I broke up with him. Before that I was not excessively worried. So it must be that I was concerned for him!

- all in all, the situation was an emergency. Hopefully he won't be breaking something every time I come with the purpose of getting bed service at home. Usually they are not that nice, when he is healthy.

As for him... .I don't know but I have that gut feeling that it is meaningful and it matters for him. But he somehow makes every possible "mistake" under the sun. Maybe self-sabotaging. Maybe, the disorder. I doubt he himself knows the answer
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AnnaK
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2014, 12:00:20 AM »

I am coming to this new interpretation of the events.

This other relationship he was having, it was going on since mid-summer. Okay, okay, at that time he painted me black (perhaps, for leaving to my country which I could not avoid), so perhaps he was going to hate me forever, so maybe in his eyes it was not really cheating. I was doing boxing in Spain and waiting for change in moods... .and for another trip

He does not really find cheating acceptable. I heard him righteously condemning his boss for having extra-marital relationships.

And then I came back and he painted me back white. And automatically found himself in the situation he actually condemns.

But he could not tell me. He was sure I'd leave him.

It was kinda wrong since September, but since it was never specially right, I did not pay attention. I decided, he is just getting more accustomed to me and loses his inhibitions.

I fought him back when he tried to beat me (no issues, but he started to respect me), restarted boxing in Indian gym and tried the validation techniques on him (it worked like charm). I also learned to recognise projections in his speech (very useful - otherwise it is impossible to make sense of his words - but the concept of projections makes everything clear)

So we got better communication. But the triangle was still there, tension increasing

And then he crashed the car. And in 2 days, he introduced the girl to me. And ran away in bad emotional crisis.

Well, I dealt with it... .With the girl, with the crisis and everything... .

Still I think - maybe it was an exception. He was the one who suffered most. Maybe he learned. Maybe it won't happen every time

Me, what me. I have only one problem - that instead of letting me sort it out for him (because he was obviously in emotional deadlock), he just ran away and been drinking since the time I got out of surgery (well, while I was having the surgery he was not drinking, I must be fair, he mobilised).

But then, again, he thought I'd condemn him the way he condemns himself. Why would he assume I would try to sort it out?

So the meaning of these three months was to explore all the interesting emotional issues a person typically faces when he finds himself... .err... ."multi-tasking"... .between several partners... .

He is not "flexible" enough to deal with those issues... .in fact, he did not manage to become a good cheater - everybody hates him now - the girl hates him, he hates himself... .only me here, not even close to hating him... .but he can't make sense of why I don't hate him - in his prospective, it was inevitable that I would hate him too... .

Quite a drama... .as ever. The issue is trivial, but the drama is not.

I should have understood, but then, he was always triangulating... .a little bit. Like many on these boards. I suspected about the girl - it was not any kind of surprise when he brought her home - but I was doing nothing - it is not my core priority, so whatever he finds comfortable... .

My core priority is survival. She was not a threat for his survival.

But how could I suspect, that at some point, this will suddenly trigger a self-hate crisis?
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AnnaK
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2014, 12:36:06 AM »

I am just trying to find the answer to the question - was it a rule or an exception?

This is the key question, because my actions depend on it.
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2014, 04:22:40 AM »

I'm sorry Anna for all you are going through.

However I would hesitate to leave all actions hanging upon one card. Rather look at the big picture. It does sound your relationship with him has meant you swallowing a lot of things and actions that have been hurtful. Yes, relationships have two parties, and none of are saints or without blame... .But you feeling humiliated - well it sounds natural. Healthy, I would say, even if it is a horrible feeling. His actions... .Difficult. It sounds, from what you tell, he is lost to himself. Doesn't know what he wants, doesn't know with whom he wants - or what he wants, and with whom, is constantly changing (which is what my SO did that for quite a while).

My own experience in long distance relationships has been they don't usually work well, at least not for the 'non's'. My SO used to have only long distance relationships as he could avoid being intimate (in a mental level) too much or too long. He'd meet with his honeys occasionally, but only for short period like day or two, treating them like queens and then disappearing in the shadows for weeks. Mostly he'd chatting with them via keyboard, emails or such. He was able to be nice and lovely in times he couldn't have kept the niceness up face to face. [I've understood the long distance / internet based relationships are very typical to BPD, they are easier to hold up.]. And of course he avoided telling that he had long distance relations with several girls at the same time... .

Also it strikes to me that going to India meant for you that your dreams weren't met? Perhaps You had a vision of what your time in India would be like, being with him and all, and it didn't come out like that at all? I don't know if I'm wrong, but perhaps part of the negatives you feel now is you being disappointed, fustrated, even angry or resentful about your plans going sour in a serious way. It's a natural feeling, having dreams and plans crushed is hard, I think we've all been there, by or with our BPD partners especially. I think it could be healthy to review it in you mind if that is the case. Then you could try making sure sure you are not somehow deep inside and secrectly holding a grudge to him for not playing his part according to your plans. Acceptance and forgiveness, is sometimes very difficult to find. Especially when one decides to leave/cut the relationship.

I wish you best lots of strenght to pull yourself through this, AnnaK  . Take care of yourself, okey?

Your core priority should be your own wellbeing. If it means you leave, you leave. yes, it  could trigger this or that in him, but it sounds like he has a family to lean back to. Love and take care of yourself as much as you have tried to take care of him and your rocky relationship.
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AnnaK
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2014, 06:35:13 AM »

Hi, Haye,

You are generally mistaken about my personality profile, although your reasoning did give me some insights.

First, I know what you are talking about, when it comes to avoiding intimacy. We have it all the same, including one hysterical scene, that "if we ever live together we are going to have separate bedrooms!" - my reaction "Oh, but that would be perfect! My father always says, that each person needs a private bedroom. Why do you sound like you are fighting?"

We are indeed having separate bedrooms, and I am quit happy with it. We are regularly (and mutually) playing the game "I hate you so I lock my door with the latch, and I will never let you in again". Besides - given his drinking and the infamous Red Flags of a Batterer - door latch is a great invention. While I can beat him up - I neither want to beat him up (I don't have Red Flags!), nor do I feel like constantly staying in "combat mode" when he is drunk and angry (heck, when would I sleep?).

Besides, there used to be one domestic theft in the beginning... .and although we subsequently agreed not to steal money and objects from each other (yeah! in writing!), one can never know... .

But all in all, me personally, I am not that much of an intimacy fan, so I am quite fine with low intimacy level. Pretty much, absolutely happy, and I would not accept someone who would want a lot of intimacy... .  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Our intimacy is like kinda... .sneaky beast. We pretend we don't see it Smiling (click to insert in post) Although validation helps and there comes intimacy. But then I begin to feel that I exhaust my own "intimacy resource", so I just let him be.

His girls... .other girls... .virtual or otherwise... .it happens exactly like you describe - he can pretend for a while, but he does not endure to keep that mask for meaningfully long time. That only makes them more emotionally dependent (they see it as push/pull).

Me, however, I was never impressed with his "nice guy" image. I am more of the kind "okay, I've seen how you can pretend a nice guy - now show me how you pick your nose!"

I am curious. And I go for the real. Not for the lovely. I see "lovely" as "fake" and "real" as "lovely" ("Wow, you bite your... .toenails! When you were drunk, you ran out of nails for biting, so you passed to your toenails - and you succeeded!" - (him blushing) "Yeah, I am flexible!" ). So I was kinda ignoring the "nice guy" mask, trying to figure out who is hiding behind it... .kinda humourous non-judging way... .eventually he gave up and showed me the real guy... .he is hardly lovely - but extremely interesting - which is good for me.

Now insight number one - although all you say is true, long-distance for him is the exact same way you describe - he never really wanted to go long-distance in a forced way with me. In fact, he stops talking to me when I go to my country, and I have to try real hard to at least find out if he's alive. There were a couple of cases when given the opportunity, he'd try to go long-distance, but it was not okay with me. I would either come in person right away - or once I simply quit the relationship for 5 years when there was no prospective. I knew nothing about going No-Contact, but that's what I did intuitively.

Then again, long-distance would not make any sense now, because I know most of his "little things". There is not much left to hide.


Then your second point. If I had any dream about our cohabitation? Believe me - I did not!

All I wanted is to get to know him better. Yes, I am very cautious, and I stay around him like I would stay around a tiger. Lovely, gorgeous tiger... .who can be a playful kitten - or who can eat me any time, if I make a mistake  Then the tiger will probably regret having eaten me  - I am more useful when alive, really! - but what do I care, if I am already eaten? So for the interest of the both of us, I gotta be careful.

So all I wanted was an opportunity to observe my tiger, whatever he may do (of course, taking care of my safety). All I wanted is to live in the same flat.

Well, you can say that my plan/dream to observe him and to get to know him better has crashed because he left. I can't observe him from 500km distance.

But I am coming more and more to the conclusion that 1) perhaps it's not all that bad in general... .I've known many new things anyway 2) perhaps it was an accident.

Perhaps if he was really taking care of himself or doing something meaningful, I'd just let it be.

But when I realised he did not get out of bed for two weeks, and he hardly can explain it - I got terrified. He is surrounded by his family - are they playing games? Are they blind? Are they trying to harm him?

He seems to have sobered up after my scandal, and again, he claims he is going to return this week. We'll see.

Nah, eventually I am perhaps not going to cut it. But he must be taken out from his family at any price and by whatever method - it's not normal, to stay 2 weeks in bed for no reason.















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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2014, 07:43:37 AM »

Then you could try making sure sure you are not somehow deep inside and secrectly holding a grudge to him for not playing his part according to your plans. Acceptance and forgiveness, is sometimes very difficult to find. Especially when one decides to leave/cut the relationship.

Well, I bet I am holding a GRUDGE!

Aw well, I am not holding a grudge for him dating another girl (being a BPD, he has good reasons to do it), I am not holding a grudge for him avoiding intimacy (well, I am not the type who'd push it into another person's throat) etc. etc.

But yes, I am holding a big grudge at him for :

- running away for imaginary reasons (I was going to help him deal with emotional crisis, not to blast his a$$ for cheating - but he ran away, so he had to face it alone). None of my actions/words were angry - he imagined it all from the beginning to the end.

- not living with me. Although now I think it was not pre-meditated after all.

- not taking minimum care of me. In fact, when I asked him for the phone number of drinking water provider, he first got surprised how I survived, then started to bargain what I have to do to have the drinking water. I sent him to the forest and went to ask it from the neighbours. I also had electricity cut out - it took me some time to find out that he has to pay the bills (he usually takes care of it - everything is hooked to his phone number). Not to mention that my Hindi is not sufficient.

- blocking his phone thus making it impossible for me to inform him of all those little problems like no water and no electricity.

- not taking basic care of himself. Requesting other people to do it for him

- harming the person I love - that is, SELF-harming.

- trying to convince me that drinking in bed can be called "being at peace". Aha. Like I am the only one with the problem - all the rest seem happy. So why don't I just shut up and pay his bills?

- giving me false promises to "come tomorrow". Repeatedly (twice... .then I learned)

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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2014, 08:26:57 AM »

But yes, I am holding a big grudge at him for [ list of 8 different patterns and/or specific cases of unacceptable behavior]

I try not to hold grudges, although I do get angry about behavior like what you listed. It takes some time to get over those sorts of feelings.

Even without holding a grudge, I would find that list of behavior harmful to me, and would change things to protect myself from it. It is your choice to make whether you risk repeats of it, based on how harmful you find it.

But all in all, me personally, I am not that much of an intimacy fan, so I am quite fine with low intimacy level. Pretty much, absolutely happy, and I would not accept someone who would want a lot of intimacy... .  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Our intimacy is like kinda... .sneaky beast. We pretend we don't see it Smiling (click to insert in post) Although validation helps and there comes intimacy. But then I begin to feel that I exhaust my own "intimacy resource", so I just let him be.

There is more than one way to have a low intimacy relationship. The 'BPD way' is to jump instantly to a huge level of intimacy. Then run away to get away from the intimacy, or behave in a way that is designed to blow up the intimacy horribly, like cheating. (Generally without any self-awareness of the need to blow up the intimacy as a driving reason!) And repeat as needed.

It will take a lot of effort on his part to be able to manage intimacy in a different way for him. (And he doesn't sound to be trying very hard!) You really can't count on that.

Is this what you want to have next year?
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2014, 10:50:47 AM »

Well. I am quite happy with the way he manipulates the intimacy. I dont know, maybe something is wrong with me. I know it's wrong, but i can handle. I am okay both with him camping in my bed for days telling me his darkest secrets - and isolating for days.

Yes, I ve seen him both ways

It also looks like this little cheating story increased our intimacy level instead of destroying it... .as I was pulling him out of his self-hate party... .

All in all, we are hard to kill.

Yes, I am okay with having it the next year and so on.

This is in fact the third girl that I know of - and i assume there may be some I dont know - but i never suspected he was believing he was cheating me. I thought he was aware of my kinda relaxed attitude.

Heck, he told me about each of them and occasionally asked for advice!

This is why i did not expect such a drama from something quite routine.

As for grudges. I am very bad at holding grudges! But this one I do want to keep  at least until he comes around. At least the part about drinking in bed.

Unfortunately, I seem to be letting go - and it seems like he knows i eventually would

Nah, most of it is not harmful to me, except the fact that it made me angry... .

However, my gut feeling tells me that i must take him out of family asap - it's not normal to live in bed for that long even for him! 

Something  must be going very wrong there. I do not know the situation, but i was scared to hear that he cant leave bed.



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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2014, 11:23:59 AM »

However, my gut feeling tells me that i must take him out of family asap - it's not normal to live in bed for that long even for him! 

Something  must be going very wrong there. I do not know the situation, but i was scared to hear that he cant leave bed.

You are at least 50% right on this one. Something is going very wrong.

There is a problem with your approach, and it seems subtle, but it really is critical:

You cannot "take" him out of that situation. He chose to go into it. If he leaves, it will be by his choice. He grew up making choices like that in his family, most likely.

The most you can do is tell him that you cannot stay close enough to him to watch him do it, and leave him to make his own way.

One version is trying to control/manage/rescue him. The other version is protecting yourself. This is a case where your attitude and reasons for doing it really make all the difference in the world.
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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2014, 01:31:14 AM »

Yeah, really, I'll quit if he does not show up.

He was kinda trying to show up, now he sent me the message "I don't deserve you".

And what am I supposed to do, from 500km distance?

I might have dispelled this illusion, but not through long-distance communication.
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2014, 08:30:47 AM »

And what am I supposed to do, from 500km distance?

First confirm in your own heart and mind that this simply won't work for you. That you would rather be alone than watch this at a distance.

Once you really know this, you can tell him that you aren't going to wait any longer. That this version of a relationship with him isn't something you want.

And let him decide if he's willing to step up to be with you, or if he wants to stay in bed, drunk, and being waited on by his family.

You get to choose how to communicate this. When I hit a point like this with my wife, and I did a 2000 mile road trip over the US Thanksgiving holiday week, partially so I could see her face-to-face and hold her hand while I told her this.
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« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2014, 09:48:22 AM »

He is willing to step up. I think my deadline (which he missed, of course) gave him the necessary psychological cold shower, so he went through alcohol withdrawal, and now I see him more sober and talking sense.

He is trying to come back asap, but there are certain objective difficulties with tickets.

Also what to say. I always let go fast. This week I started boxing again after 3 weeks break because of my surgery, so life is overall good, why hold the grudges?

This visit is spoiled, but I suppose it was special case all in all, and it won't be repeated. However, there is only one way to know for sure - to try and see.





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« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2014, 04:36:11 PM »

 

AnnaK,

I recommend that you sort through how you want to live your life.  Invite him to come along... .if that is what you want.  But realize... that he may not decide that.

Now... we all know that "our plans" don't happen exactly the way we want... .but my gut says that some of the emotions you are describing are a result of you "feeling" like you have made too many compromises (deviations from the plan) for him.

I would recommend that you first... .revisit and clarify the plan.

Then... .figure out how far off that plan is really ok... .

Finally stick to it.

How does all of that strike you?

Note:  My recommendations are all about you... .not much about him... .that was intentional.
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