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Author Topic: The disdain - contempt - and ugliness... can't stand it anymore - HELP  (Read 598 times)
nightmoves
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« on: November 29, 2014, 10:14:19 PM »

So - was wondering how many of you out there deal with this.

My BPDw again went to bed seemingly in a good space... .got a hug... .said a nice goodnight... .

I got up early... started doing things around the house... .and when she awoke... .JUST from her look ... .I knew... .she was in one of those moods.

The best way I can describe it ... .is it his overt disdain, contempt, and all with an UGLY tone.

I actually do my best to avoid her when she is like this... .but ... .we are in the same house. With kids. Plans. Things to do/get to / plan.

So there HAS to be interaction.

I try for the longest time - to simply blot her mood and disdain out.

But, some days, it is SO overt , SO over the top, that I instinctively without really thinking - say (as I would to ANYONE)... ."what is wrong"?... .or "is everything ok?"... .or ... ."are you upset about something"?

THAT ... .just THAT... .gets anger... .acute... .and a SWIFT exit out of the room in disdain.

SO... .I then let it go. Or try to.

But as the day goes on... .ANY ... .POSSIBLE ... .opportunity... .she is overtly ugly ... .disdainful... .disrespectful... .contemptuous.

It is VERY hard to let hours go on like this.

AND it feels as tough I am being PATHETIC... .just ignoring it.

SO - I will at some pint say something like... ."Ok... .so come on. WHAT is bothering you?

She will actually then act like there is NOTHING.

I will then say "but ... then WHY are you being so incredibly ugly to me"

She will again get pissed - and say she is not.

SO... .What the ----- is this?

It is like I go to sleep with one person... .and then find an entirely DIFFERENT person in the house the next day.

The added incredible part of it is... .as she is completely disdainful to me ... .she has NO problem actually asking for me to run errands... .do thigns for her... .handle the chores as she works on the computer... .etc... etc...

Ok... so I am REALLY not some pathetic guy. AND in my "real world"... not a loser ... .at all.

BUT ... .to have someone act like this to you... .EVEN AFTER... .you try to point it out to them... .AND ... say it is damn near impossible to have someone treat you like that ALL day... .you just cannot any longer.

I KEEP telling her ... .that even IF she would simply just EXPLAIN what has her so mad... .then I would at LEAST understand.

But it is being treated like the person next to you cannot even STAND you are THERE.

And yet... .will not communicate anything.

Anyone got any thoughts here?
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2014, 12:24:46 AM »

Hi, nightmoves.  No, you’re not pathetic or a loser.  You’re up against something that’s awful BAD!  It’s almost like the silent treatment – saying that she’s not mad, but acting like she is – and it is abusive. 

I’ve been reading a lot tonight, trying to figure this out too.  Even though I’m putting tools to work (but I need to improve on validate, validate, validate – which is hard when a person is being so ugly), I feel like I’m a sitting duck.  And it’s duck season.

One word that really stands out in what I’ve read tonight is “control”.   Tonight my uBPDh actually said something to the effect that I act like I’m not supposed to be bullied around.  Wow.  He, himself basically stated that he is bullying me.  And he gets ticked off when bullying me around doesn’t work the way he wants it to.  That is a control issue.

What you said about your wife makes me think of selective mutism.  When she is walking around acting as if she is angry, but says she is not, and you’re asking her why she’s acting that way if she’s not angry, and she won’t say….she really has a good bit of control in that situation.   She’s getting a reaction out of you, one that is confused and frustrated, and maybe that is just what she wants to accomplish? 

So what to do in this situation?  Turn the tables – stop reinforcing her behavior with your current reaction - and validate, validate, validate? 

I want a cookbook!  A recipe!  For peace and good will toward men…and women! 

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nightmoves
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2014, 12:48:39 AM »

Thanks FlowerPath.

I sit here... .just amazed that my WIFE... .can actually NOT give a damn that she hears me say that she is treating me like S--t.

I married what I thought was SUCH a kind and caring person. NOW... .she is literally at times (more and more) the most hateful and ugly person I have ever been around.

WHAT happened?

She actually goes on these rages whereby she will SAY... ."THAT old me ... .is gone! No more caring or giving a s--t what others want or think"

"That woman was an ass---... .F that... ."

To hear that ... .kills me. To hear that she "thinks" that this "new hateful and angry person... .she is confusing with "power"... .and is a stronger or better person than that fantastic person she once was... .is simply crushing to hear.

I tell her that - that person was tremendous.

She actually has said she LIKES being angry... .because it gives her "power".

One therapist we saw... actually tried to get her to see that this anger was now like a drug for her. It fires off things in her brain. Makes her feel powerful.

He was saying it as a NEGATIVE... .and that it really needed to stop.

And NOW she is EMBRACING it?

I texted her tonight... .to ask again... "what is wrong?"... ."WHY are you being so ugly and dismissive and disrespectful".

She sadi she was not mad. And she saw this differently than I do.

I was like ... ."WHAT the F-- does THAT mean?"

Saw this differently?

Huh?

This is mind numbing.



And she again said that she


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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2014, 01:18:14 AM »

Nons can't react spontaneously and naturally (which would be: What the heck... .?) to these 'Mr Hyde outbursts' , but just validate and let go.

I have done that mistake too many times, making it worse and longer and feeling angry and eventually miserable myself. At that point he acts like nothing happened... .He probably really thinks nothing happened, as he was only reacting normally to s... .t around him.

Does she ever apologize? My partner BPD sometimes (not often) says: sorry I was a bit hard on you. I think 'A bit... .!' But just say: I understand that you have to let it out. However, try to remember that I am not the bad guy. It's natural to have anger , but don't channel it through me. This kind of helps for a while, and he has started to remember that on some level because sometimes he says : I'm not mad at you, but this thing... .(then outburst starts)

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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2014, 02:13:04 AM »

I feel your pain Nighmoves... .literally. My uBPDw does the same thing. Can't make sense of it or take it personal. For years before I found out about BPD I would search out my part in it, if there was any, and apologize. Once I realized that she is a mentally ill person and I really did nothing wrong, I started standing up for myself:

1. I won't take abuse anymore. I remove myself from the situation. Because she is terrified of abandonment she usually pulls herself together before I actually get out the door.

2. I try to validate when it makes sense for to me to do so.

3. I have established some boundries. Specifically I have asked her to minimize entertaining and trips as a couple since the anxiety produced by these two activities and the drinking involved usually triggers the horrible behavior. The thought of entertaing or traveling with her is a huge turnoff. Fortunately, I don't crave these activities anyhow. She no longer drinks around me at home.

So, life is much better though far from what it could/should be. THEO
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nightmoves
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2014, 02:26:44 AM »

HI Theo,

Excerpt
For years before I found out about BPD I would search out my part in it, if there was any, and apologize. Once I realized that she is a mentally ill person and I really did nothing wrong, I started standing up for myself:

This paragraph above really connected with me.

I too... .for many years... .would be so stunned at her rage, blame,anger, and hate toward me or some percieved issue... .that I fell backwards looking inward to find or accept anything that i "must have" done to cause this.

It got SO bad that I think I really KNEW that I was accepting blame where I really was not to blame... .AND... .like you... .I apologized.

I JUST wanted it to return to "normal" again.

I am a strong man - so have no probelm with taking on the blame for things... .but am now years later - really worn out... .AND much more aware.

I too... .remember the DAY I found out about BPD. I was reading articles which FROZE me- as it was literally detailing EXACTLY what I had been dealing with.

For me though... .I am really not able or willing to fully look at her as ill. IF I detach some ... .and read this behavior in others... .i shudder at how off the wall it is. But for whatever reason... .it is VERY hard for me to buy into her being unwell. I know she is... .but I have really been unable to give up that long ago image of her.

AND she is VERY  VERY  good at projecting ANYTHING unto me. All is MY fault. Preposterous things. Irrational things.

It truly has been so bad... .for so ling... .that I am losing my bearings and ability to see this clearly anymore.

Thanks again for your post.

Night
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2014, 06:32:20 AM »

There is something that has caused upset to her, could have been a dream anything. Most likely nothing to with you . Acting aggressive, even passive aggressive is away of taking control of the chaos, which probably has no identifiable meaning to her. Being aggressive is like imposing a face on the emotion. Some attempt at of channeling it. Similar to the way some people self harm in a way to give confused emotional pain a physical presence.

You asking her what is wrong, is a bit like imposing on her "thinking aloud". You are intruding, even trying to make it about you (in her perception). The more you intervene the more frustrated she may get until it becomes about you.

Almost like she is saying "shut up I am concentrating". She is concentrating on trying to give a subconscious stresser an identifiable property (controlled anger)

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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2014, 11:12:12 AM »

Nightmoves, the big question is what can you do about this... .I will call it a quasi-silent treatment?

The answer is simple. (NOT EASY!) Go about your day, doing things that matter to you. If they are things you would normally do with your wife, but would do alone anyhow, you can offer her the chance to do them with you.

Also recognize that you are hurting yourself (emotionally) when spent time around that seething silent anger. So plan on doing things apart from her when she's in that mood. You don't have to understand it. You don't have to ask about it. All you have to do is go elsewhere in search of peace and happiness.

If she *wants* to tell you about how she's feeling, that's a different matter--do listen and validate, unless it feels like an attack to you.
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2014, 12:22:43 PM »

Also recognize that you are hurting yourself (emotionally) when spent time around that seething silent anger. So plan on doing things apart from her when she's in that mood. You don't have to understand it. You don't have to ask about it. All you have to do is go elsewhere in search of peace and happiness.

If she *wants* to tell you about how she's feeling, that's a different matter--do listen and validate, unless it feels like an attack to you.

This is such good advice, Grey Kitty. I get the "seething silent anger" from my BPDh but also the depressed sad puppy eyes. I've made the mistake of repeatedly asking, "What's wrong?" Typically the reply is "Nothing."

Lately I've been ignoring the gloomy face and just acting as though all is well and his mood will transition faster.

It's a bummer though to be on the receiving end of either the silent anger or depression.
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2014, 12:30:30 PM »

Grey -

Thank you.

Here is the thing though... .

HOW does one deal with the overt contempt and disdain leveled at them?

I now DO go about my business... .projects around house... etc... .

But simply crossing her path... .I get a large dose of ugliness.

It is very difficult to just "take it"... .as it seems like NO response and letting it go without at least naming it... is a pathetic admittance that it is "ok".

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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2014, 03:46:12 PM »

I now DO go about my business... .projects around house... etc... .

But simply crossing her path... .I get a large dose of ugliness.

Pay attention to YOUR feelings about this.

If YOU are feeling hurt and awful when you just cross her path in the house, consider what you can change:

You can't change her choice to give you the stink-eye.

You can choose to spend more of the day at a greater distance so those chance encounters won't happen.

Boundary enforcement is 100% about protecting yourself from things exactly like this.

OTOH, you may upon occasion, find that you don't take this personally, and don't feel hurt and attacked by her foul mood. I don't mean being able to act like it doesn't bug you here... .I mean not feeling bad about it at all. IF this happens, you don't need as much distance to protect yourself, at least on that day.
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 05:21:50 PM »

Describes my spouse to a T today.  No clue where it's coming from.  I've had a nice day, headed out to evening service at church for a little space.  Good luck.
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 10:02:28 PM »

Describes my spouse to a T today.  No clue where it's coming from.  I've had a nice day, headed out to evening service at church for a little space.  Good luck.

So when I came home she was sitting in bed watching a movie.  When I came in and sat down in the bedroom she turned off the TV and started watching Netflix on her laptop so she could use her headphones.  I must have looked like I was threatening to start some pleasant conversation or something equally horrific   

I'm just sitting quietly trying not to inflict any unwanted niceties... .
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"Do.  Or do not.  There is no try."  | "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.”  |  "Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." ~ Yoda
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2014, 12:51:57 AM »

No need to stamp around in a minefield just so you can label it a minefield.

Stay out and go around it.
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2014, 02:16:50 AM »

Guys,

Are these foul moods happening for a specific timeframe every month?

It took me a long time to realize this Laugh out loud (click to insert in post), but I figured out that in my wife's case, it was nature calling every month.

2 days before : I was the hero of the planet.

1 day before : how dare such a vile creature as me even come near her!

Very confusing, indeed.

My solution : blame it on the hormones (quietly), and have a good day  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Jack
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2014, 04:31:36 AM »

My solution : blame it on the hormones (quietly), and have a good day  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I wouldn't recommend that. It would be very dismissive, invalidating and likely to be a huge trigger.

But the principle of just accepting it was one of those things you cant control is similar
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2014, 05:37:12 AM »

Hence "quietly".

Scientists have proven that there is a direct link between how you feel and your hormone levels.

I have learned to accept that I can not do anything about it, but moreover that it is NOT my fault; anything that comes out of her mouth during that time is not reality, just an expression of her inner turmoil.  

So the Justice radar goes "off" for some time, while the content-filter goes "on".

After a while, you get used to this system, and start to apply it whenever useful.

And as for the women here : men also have hormones, so it can work the other way around as well.  Important is how you deal with it.


Jack

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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2014, 06:46:02 AM »

Hi nightmoves,

In my home yesterday we all woke up and instantly I could tell from the bristling atmosphere that my dBPDh was feeling bad. Now in the past I did as you have done, ask questions about what was the matter, or my biggest mistake was to ask 'you don't seem in a very good mood this morning what's the matter?' This question was sure to bring about instant dysregulation as I now understand it to be prescriptive and judgemental etc etc plus invalidating!

Now as soon as I feel or see that tension I am off out. Yesterday I took s6 for an impromptu visit to grandma, let h know what time would be back and off we went. Some two hours latter I got a lovely text from h, sent one back, when returned home reset button had been pushed and all is calm. I don't make any references to what went before at all.

In the past I would have 'fed' his mood to the point of dysregulation with lots of questioning all around why he was being like he was. I was trying to fix, sort, make better, make sense of something that I now know I can't sort and most of the time has absolutely nothing to do with me. Like I have said in previous posts my h was so dysregulated last year that the weather would trigger him, because of course it was raining on purpose just as he would leave the house.  I puzzled over the nuances in his behaviour in numerous attempts to bring reason to his life. ( insert picture of me banging head against wall repeatedly for years Smiling (click to insert in post) )

For me what has been crucial is accepting that this is a serious mental disorder/illness and that means that we are not coming at this from a level playing field with our SO's. BPD comes with some clearly defined symptoms and characteristics that manifest themselves within the setting of our relationships, the skills on here really,really work, but what has worked best for me in conjunction with them is the letting go of trying to make sense or find meaning in all of this.

I work hard on just accepting that how my h is today how he needs to be. Sometimes I can validate his feelings and sometimes I can't. When I can't I know that I usually need to remove myself and give him time to try and self soothe. I have been working on this way of being since April of this year and for the most part I have managed to allow him to be how he needs to be whilst protecting myself and our son from any negative emotions.

I lost my bearings and my ability to see clearly too nightmoves and like you was completely emotionally overwhelmed by the chaos and negativity that this disorder was creating.

Start small and slow by stepping away from your wife's moods, leave them just to her. Practice being silent no matter how much you want to ask that question about what is wrong, remain quiet. I used to repeat 'keep quiet' over and over in my head until it felt natural. I don't ignore my h, I just don't try and navigate his emotional minefield anymore. Initially it felt forced and awkward because it goes against how I would usually respond to someone especially my SO. I thought I was doing something wrong because changing my behaviour felt so forced, I even practiced responses in the car.

I still invalidate h at times and there have been a couple of nearly dysregulations, but the best bit is that I feel better. It is for me a strangely counter-intuitive way of being because I am a fixer, a sorter, I like working through things until there is a resolution.

There is a way to move forward nightmoves.


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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2014, 10:24:55 AM »

Well my W decided that she had been silent as long as she could, so I just got back from a trip to a galaxy far, far, away.  For about 30 minutes I was witness to more projection than a 3D cineplex  Smiling (click to insert in post)  The thing is, it gets so far out there that JADEing is not a problem;  who could possibly justify or defend stuff that's so crazy you can't even follow it?  Apparently I have been angry all weekend long; never mind that I have had two incredibly peaceful, enjoyable days once the stress of the holiday was past. 

It was strange what set her off this morning, but in hindsight I see how she took it as invalidating.  But it was one of those things that couldn't possibly have been seen as invalidating beforehand, so whatever.  Understand she is a week out from foot surgery.  She has determined that if she can be completely independent then somehow she will be immune from the massive criticism she feels she is getting.  So when she got down on hands and knees (and foot in a brace) to unplug a cord (without warning), I said, "Honey, I'll be glad to get things like that for you."  After the discussion it became clear that invalidated her need to feel independent.  But that set off about half an hour of how I'm becoming worse and worse and the therapy that's supposed to be "helping" me isn't working.  As I said it was no problem to resist JADEing; it was far too fascinating to listen and identify one by one the behaviors of hers that she was projecting on to me.  Wherever I could I tried to validate her feelings or show empathy, and all I got was "I don't need your therapy talk." 

When I joined this site I joined the "Staying" board, but it's getting harder and harder to justify it.  I still want to stay, but I've progressed to the point of keeping my options open and making contingency plans.  I've just about had it.
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2014, 10:33:14 AM »



Now in the past I did as you have done, ask questions about what was the matter, or my biggest mistake was to ask 'you don't seem in a very good mood this morning what's the matter?' This question was sure to bring about instant dysregulation as I now understand it to be prescriptive and judgemental etc etc plus invalidating!

In the past I would have 'fed' his mood to the point of dysregulation with lots of questioning all around why he was being like he was. I was trying to fix, sort, make better, make sense of something that I now know I can't sort and most of the time has absolutely nothing to do with me.

I work hard on just accepting that how my h is today how he needs to be. Sometimes I can validate his feelings and sometimes I can't. When I can't I know that I usually need to remove myself and give him time to try and self soothe.

Practice being silent no matter how much you want to ask that question about what is wrong, remain quiet. I used to repeat 'keep quiet' over and over in my head until it felt natural. I don't ignore my h, I just don't try and navigate his emotional minefield anymore. Initially it felt forced and awkward because it goes against how I would usually respond to someone especially my SO. I thought I was doing something wrong because changing my behaviour felt so forced, I even practiced responses in the car.

It is for me a strangely counter-intuitive way of being because I am a fixer, a sorter, I like working through things until there is a resolution.

Sweetheart, very well stated! I too am a fixer and fell into asking my BPDh, "What's wrong?" only to get the reply "Nothing" or "What are you feeling" with the reply "I don't know." I've started to train myself not to ask these questions, and just be happy, but it does feel so unnatural.

My BPD mother conditioned me to be overly concerned with her emotional state and to not do this almost feels narcissistic. Of course anytime I focused too much on myself, which is only natural for young children, she accused me of being "selfish." I've got to remember that there is "healthy selfish" and this obsessive need for inquiry about my husband's internal state is not working.
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2014, 10:39:48 AM »

Well my W decided that she had been silent as long as she could, so I just got back from a trip to a galaxy far, far, away.  For about 30 minutes I was witness to more projection than a 3D cineplex  Smiling (click to insert in post)  The thing is, it gets so far out there that JADEing is not a problem;  who could possibly justify or defend stuff that's so crazy you can't even follow it?  Apparently I have been angry all weekend long; never mind that I have had two incredibly peaceful, enjoyable days once the stress of the holiday was past. 

Isn't that infuriating to be told that you're angry when you're not? I've gotten into arguments about this. "No, I'm not angry at all, in fact I was having a very pleasant day." I guess that's invalidating him.

Of course, he doesn't believe me and by the time we're done talking, yes, indeed I'm angry!

I'm trying to catch this before I repeat the cycle, but I'm so f*Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)&ing fed up with dealing with a crazy person. It's such a pain to have to monitor every utterance that comes out of my mouth for potential of "hurting him". I just wish he was normal!
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2014, 11:19:20 AM »

SO - I will at some pint say something like... ."Ok... .so come on. WHAT is bothering you?

She will actually then act like there is NOTHING.

I will then say "but ... then WHY are you being so incredibly ugly to me"

She will again get pissed - and say she is not
.



I know this scenario well, so after years of asking why he was mad, I just stopped.  When he slams doors and storms around acting like he's two, I ignore it.  I did actually ask him what was wrong a couple of months back for the first time in ages.  His response was completely different.  Instead of acting even more mad and saying he wasn't, his face INSTANTLY changed from his usual scowl to a very pleasant expression.  It's so bizarre.  

I don't think asking why they are mad does any good at all.  His anger is HIS anger, so I leave him to it.  
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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2014, 11:27:05 AM »

When I joined this site I joined the "Staying" board, but it's getting harder and harder to justify it.  I still want to stay, but I've progressed to the point of keeping my options open and making contingency plans.  I've just about had it.

jedimaster, I've got two thoughts for you right now:

First... .you are just getting the hang of boundaries to protect yourself. They really change the game quite a bit when you master them and she figures out that you've mastered them. Other tools like validation take time to learn and time for their impact to show.

Second... .go ahead and make contingency plans. I've twice been at the cusp of ending my marriage to protect myself, and just come back this week from the second time. I've found a great deal of freedom to improve my marriage that came from the understanding that I could survive its end, and even thrive somehow. If you feel that you "can't" leave, it takes away some of the courage you need to make tough changes and fix things.

And a reminder: Hang in there! It will get better. You will choose things that make it better.

 GK
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« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2014, 12:06:50 PM »

My solution : blame it on the hormones (quietly), and have a good day  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I wouldn't recommend that. It would be very dismissive, invalidating and likely to be a huge trigger.

But the principle of just accepting it was one of those things you cant control is similar

As a woman that has been struggling with hormonal stuff lately, it would be very invalidating and would likely cause a trigger. I think I have been pretty good and keeping myself in check when struggling with hormone surges and cramps but I am not a saint and nothing feels worse than somebody chalking things up to hormones and ignoring you.
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« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2014, 12:21:49 PM »

When I joined this site I joined the "Staying" board, but it's getting harder and harder to justify it.  I still want to stay, but I've progressed to the point of keeping my options open and making contingency plans.  I've just about had it.

jedimaster, I've got two thoughts for you right now:

First... .you are just getting the hang of boundaries to protect yourself. They really change the game quite a bit when you master them and she figures out that you've mastered them. Other tools like validation take time to learn and time for their impact to show.

Second... .go ahead and make contingency plans. I've twice been at the cusp of ending my marriage to protect myself, and just come back this week from the second time. I've found a great deal of freedom to improve my marriage that came from the understanding that I could survive its end, and even thrive somehow. If you feel that you "can't" leave, it takes away some of the courage you need to make tough changes and fix things.

And a reminder: Hang in there! It will get better. You will choose things that make it better.

 GK

Thanks for the affirmations.  They are definitely welcomed!  I've been getting some others from unexpected quarters lately, and they really help when things get crazy. 

For a long time I refused to think about contingency plans on the premise that somehow I wasn't being fully committed to the marriage if I allowed myself to ponder "what if".  I now realize while that might have some validity in a normal situation, this situation is not normal and I have to plan accordingly.  I've had some discussions with my parents recently along these lines (don't get the wrong idea; they love my wife and hurt for her situation, but our properties join and some of their planning for their later years might change if we no longer lived next door.)  Their advice was much the same as yours--plan for what you have to so you don't feel trapped.  That is exactly what I am doing, looking at what-if's, how might each side come out financially; where to live; etc.  Our children are grown, my job is online, and I'm finding that fewer and fewer of the material possessions we own have any real hold on me.  It boils down to the only thing keeping me here is her.  I'm not sure she grasps that.  She seems to think I'm so desperate to save this marriage she can treat me however she wishes.  If she keeps doing that she's going to find out I'm more desperate for peace of mind.
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"Do.  Or do not.  There is no try."  | "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.”  |  "Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." ~ Yoda
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2014, 02:01:36 PM »

Hello jedimaster,

I don't want to hijack nightmoves thread, but for me once I was able to allow myself to think about leaving, talk with my family, make actual plans, financial, housing, child care etc I no longer felt trapped. Trapped was how I was feeling and overwhelmed, and my h knew I would do anything to save our marriage. That included allowing myself to become my h's emotional whipping post.

When I made plans to leave it shifted something inside me, and I know my h sensed this change in me. For me this shift was the beginning of my disengagement from my dBPDh chaos.
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2014, 04:30:52 PM »

Stunningly thoughtful and cerebral posts... .

Thank you everyone.
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2014, 06:54:24 PM »

My solution : blame it on the hormones (quietly), and have a good day  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I wouldn't recommend that. It would be very dismissive, invalidating and likely to be a huge trigger.

But the principle of just accepting it was one of those things you cant control is similar

As a woman that has been struggling with hormonal stuff lately, it would be very invalidating and would likely cause a trigger. I think I have been pretty good and keeping myself in check when struggling with hormone surges and cramps but I am not a saint and nothing feels worse than somebody chalking things up to hormones and ignoring you.

This is one of those things that women can share amongst themselves, but g-dforbid if a man mentions it! Then it enters the same territory as "WOW, you know how to fix that?" or ":)on't worry your pretty little head, I'll take care of it" or "That's man's work" or some other equally invalidating remark. Women who grew up a few decades ago were constantly subjected to ridicule if we dared to step out of rigid sex role stereotypes. Things are slightly more progressive nowadays, but there's still lots of ingrained sexism.

That said, there truly are biological issues that contribute to women's moods on a cyclical basis. Fortunately I've never been plagued with extreme hormonal shifts unlike some of my friends. However just watching my mares' attitudes towards their male (gelded) pasture mates, I see how they can be easygoing one day and raging b!tches the next, so I have sympathy for men whose significant others have extreme mood swings due to hormones.

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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2014, 07:17:15 PM »

Hello jedimaster,

I don't want to hijack nightmoves thread, but for me once I was able to allow myself to think about leaving, talk with my family, make actual plans, financial, housing, child care etc I no longer felt trapped. Trapped was how I was feeling and overwhelmed, and my h knew I would do anything to save our marriage. That included allowing myself to become my h's emotional whipping post.

When I made plans to leave it shifted something inside me, and I know my h sensed this change in me. For me this shift was the beginning of my disengagement from my dBPDh chaos.

Exactly how I'm starting to feel.  I was able to sit and listen to a 30 minute harangue this morning without flinching, because I realized I only have to take this until I'm ready to stop taking it.  Incredibly empowering. 
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"Do.  Or do not.  There is no try."  | "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.”  |  "Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." ~ Yoda
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2014, 08:16:54 PM »

I was able to sit and listen to a 30 minute harangue this morning without flinching, because I realized I only have to take this until I'm ready to stop taking it.  Incredibly empowering. 

I don't believe that letting your partner harangue you for 30 minutes is good for them or for you.

Sometimes you are in that place where you can not flinch and not take it personally, and that is a great capacity to have. Even so, it still probably costs you more than you may realize.

Letting your partner use that as their go-to coping mechanism for difficult feelings is NOT doing them a favor. Let them learn other coping mechanisms.
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