infidelity and BPD... more likely or a myth?

[Depression = 72% of members]

And for me... .I have real trouble wrapping my brain around how the idea of 'abstinance' which works for drinking or drug addiction gets morphed into something comprehensive and helpful for issues like sex or overeating where literal abstinence is either nearly impossible or ultimately fatal.

I have a story along those lines - my wife clearly has had issues with sleeping around and having loose boundaries when it comes to sex.  It seems to give her great shame.  A few years ago, she was in love with a guy, who eventually basically ran off on her (I'm sure it was because of her neediness/BPD behavior).  She still holds resentment towards this guy.  Anyway, she met the guy through AA, and she blamed his running off on that he was newly sober and "didn't have much time" - meaning she thought he was emotionally immature.  So, because he was an addict, and couldn't seem to let him go, she turned to alanon.  She found a sponsor, started working the steps, but when her sponsor tried to tell her that she had sex addiction issues and that she should abstain from dating or having sex for a period of time, she scoffed at the idea, labeled her sponsor as "too Christian" and quit going to alanon.  In hindsight, the sponsor was 100% correct, as she wound up reacting by sleeping around, getting pregnant, having an abortion, and one more level of shame and self hatred she is now working through. 

I agree that total abstinence can't be the solution for sex or food addicts.  But a temporary abstinence from sex or unhealthy foods could help build some level of self control.

[maxsterling]

And for me... .I have real trouble wrapping my brain around how the idea of 'abstinance' which works for drinking or drug addiction gets morphed into something comprehensive and helpful for issues like sex or overeating where literal abstinence is either nearly impossible or ultimately fatal.

I have a story along those lines - my wife clearly has had issues with sleeping around and having loose boundaries when it comes to sex.  It seems to give her great shame.  A few years ago, she was in love with a guy, who eventually basically ran off on her (I'm sure it was because of her neediness/BPD behavior).  She still holds resentment towards this guy.  Anyway, she met the guy through AA, and she blamed his running off on that he was newly sober and "didn't have much time" - meaning she thought he was emotionally immature.  So, because he was an addict, and couldn't seem to let him go, she turned to alanon.  She found a sponsor, started working the steps, but when her sponsor tried to tell her that she had sex addiction issues and that she should abstain from dating or having sex for a period of time, she scoffed at the idea, labeled her sponsor as "too Christian" and quit going to alanon.  In hindsight, the sponsor was 100% correct, as she wound up reacting by sleeping around, getting pregnant, having an abortion, and one more level of shame and self hatred she is now working through. 

I agree that total abstinence can't be the solution for sex or food addicts.  But a temporary abstinence from sex or unhealthy foods could help build some level of self control.

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[waverider]

I agree that total abstinence can't be the solution for sex or food addicts.  But a temporary abstinence from sex or unhealthy foods could help build some level of self control.

I believe those with deeper addiction to impulse issues, ie transient, but intense addictions, often require the forced abstinence to break the cycle. True the obsession can move to something else but once broken they can more easily move on, the old addiction not having the same hold as those with single addiction issues (eg pure alcoholics). This is probably because their thoughts are now given free reign over something else rather than living everyday being thwarted from their one ingrained weakness.

Of course the danger in this is that they can quickly declare themselves "cured" of their former issue and hence lower their safe guards. Then the issue that caused them to delve into it(eg underlying PD)  rears its head and suddenly its on again.

Until the underlying PD is addressed it is sneaking around in the background lighting spot fires which if unattended soon rage out of control.

AA and such focuses too much on the one fire without fingering the firebug.

When I tried to bring the underlying issues up in Alanon, it was always sidelined, possibly because those not dealing with things like BPD have no idea about it.

This is the difficulty with mental illness as it often encompasses a real mix and match, even here we are not always dealing with straight BPD, and we can't be familiar with everything.

[shatra]

Waverider wrote

"Of course the danger in this is that they can quickly declare themselves "cured" of their former issue and hence lower their safe guards. Then the issue that caused them to delve into it(eg underlying PD)  rears its head and suddenly its on again.Until the underlying PD is addressed it is sneaking around in the background lighting spot fires which if unattended soon rage out of control.

    AA and such focuses too much on the one fire without fingering the firebug.

When I tried to bring the underlying issues up in Alanon, it was always sidelined, possibly because those not dealing with things like BPD have no idea about it."

----Although some alcoholics also have personality disorders or other psychiatric problems, alcoholism is a biological disease. It isn't caused by personality disorders, and there is no cure for alcoholism, there is only treatment.

   BPD has various symptoms, and a common one is substance abuse, but that is different than the actual disease of alcoholism... .so it's true that some pwBPD abuse drugs as part of their disorder. But alcoholism is an actual disease, and AA exists to help save alcoholics' lives, not to address other psychological issues.  Some BPs abuse alcohol, and other BPs are alcoholics. It is great to address both issue, and it's true that once alcoholics become sober they may still have BP or other disorders, and yes it's great for them to address these as well.  AA is to help alcoholics get sober and stay sober.

Shatra

[MissyM]

Wow, lots going on on this thread that I find interesting.

Waverider,

When I tried to bring the underlying issues up in Alanon, it was always sidelined, possibly because those not dealing with things like BPD have no idea about it.

I must be lucky, or they are also unlucky, but a lot of people in both my Alanon group and COSA group have spouses with PDs and I find a lot of support and understanding.

Max,

It requires people to accept that alcoholism is a disease in which they are powerless over.   Personally, I don't think alcoholism (or addiction) is a disease.

Well, I don't know if it is just the word disease that is an issue because I don't really like that word either but there is definitely damage to the brain in an addict that is different than others.  My eldest did addiction research at NIH and is a published researcher (although she has switched to a different career) and there are definitely neural pathways that are different in addicts (all addicts).  She could explain it in better detail than I possibly can.

But a temporary abstinence from sex or unhealthy foods could help build some level of self control.

They recommend at least 90 days to clear the brain.

[waverider]

Waverider wrote

"Of course the danger in this is that they can quickly declare themselves "cured" of their former issue and hence lower their safe guards. Then the issue that caused them to delve into it(eg underlying PD)  rears its head and suddenly its on again.Until the underlying PD is addressed it is sneaking around in the background lighting spot fires which if unattended soon rage out of control.

    AA and such focuses too much on the one fire without fingering the firebug.

When I tried to bring the underlying issues up in Alanon, it was always sidelined, possibly because those not dealing with things like BPD have no idea about it."

----Although some alcoholics also have personality disorders or other psychiatric problems, alcoholism is a biological disease. It isn't caused by personality disorders, and there is no cure for alcoholism, there is only treatment.

   BPD has various symptoms, and a common one is substance abuse, but that is different than the actual disease of alcoholism... .so it's true that some pwBPD abuse drugs as part of their disorder. But alcoholism is an actual disease, and AA exists to help save alcoholics' lives, not to address other psychological issues.  Some BPs abuse alcohol, and other BPs are alcoholics. It is great to address both issue, and it's true that once alcoholics become sober they may still have BP or other disorders, and yes it's great for them to address these as well.  AA is to help alcoholics get sober and stay sober.

Shatra

Totally agree, the point being that there needs to be an awareness that the problem is not just alcoholism alone

[borderdude]

My ex BPD , tried to get infidel with me , but why?

- her current boyfriend made signs leaving her, it triggers fears of leaving.

It is a part of the illness, an underdeveloped mind cannot handle the responsability and pain going trough a hurtful  separation process.

It felt like a little child abandoned by her caregiver, i am still her backup, only because it is easier to warm up old leftovers.

[4kidz]

for me lying and or infidelity would be a deal breaker. After all the pain, suffering, frustration, bewilderement I have been through yet decided to stay out of love for her . I could not stand infidelity. All of the life would be sucked out of the relationship. Just thinking about it as a possibilty creates a knot in my stomach that is hard to describe... .

[SlyQQ]

To me it is almost inconcievable for a BPD not to lie ( they are soo good at it ) anything is possible though i guess

[Mutt]

BPD is an emotional based disordered. Dissociations ( lying ) and altering reality to match a pwBPD out of place feelings. I can relate how painful infidelity is.

[waverider]

To me it is almost inconcievable for a BPD not to lie ( they are soo good at it ) anything is possible

though i guess

Having a completely different and shifting reality means what you would call twisting and lying inevitable. The important thing to be able to do is to separate this from the outright malicous lying.

It is a bit like being a poor witness rather than serious perpetrator of deception. The former you can just work with, the latter needs some actions to protect yourself

[shatra]

Waverider wrote

Having a completely different and shifting reality means what you would call twisting and lying inevitable. The important thing to be able to do is to separate this from the outright malicous lying.

=====Good point. It seems that for them, feelings = facts.  So when they are angry, they distort a situation as all bad. When they calm down, they report the same situation in a very different way. Which they would not call lying.

Shatra

[waverider]

Waverider wrote

Having a completely different and shifting reality means what you would call twisting and lying inevitable. The important thing to be able to do is to separate this from the outright malicous lying.

=====Good point. It seems that for them, feelings = facts.  So when they are angry, they distort a situation as all bad. When they calm down, they report the same situation in a very different way. Which they would not call lying.

Shatra

This is all part of the BPD trait of not having any real sense of who they are. How can they when their own view, or interpretation, of reality keeps shifting. Their mind is nomadic with no fixed abode, constantly seeking greener pastures. They have no idea of where they belong, only seeing what is currently within the horizon, even if tomorrow they may journey across it.