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Cat Familiar
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« on: December 08, 2014, 07:55:25 AM »

We were passionately in love ten years ago when we got together. We built a house and a life together and weathered many obstacles, financial and family difficulties. His drinking and prescription drug use increased. My worry (and nagging) about his addictive patterns skyrocketed. We became resentful and contemptuous of each other. We did counseling. Now, we're like roommates, pleasant to each other most of the time. I've learned not to make his BPD worse and he's not drinking as much. But the passion is gone. We both would like to recreate the warmth and loving atmosphere that was formerly effortless, but I think we're mistrustful of each other. Through individual therapy and educating myself about BPD, my resentment for his prior acting out episodes has largely diminished. How do I fix this relationship?
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 10:43:57 AM »

Hello, Cat.

This is also the place that I find myself in with my uBPDw. We are seeing MC, who has been trying to get us to use the small amount of positive regard that we have experienced as conflict has lessened to actually come closer together. So far, every effort time I have made an effort to act on MC's suggestions, it is met with the not close enough/too close response that is typical of BPD.

Still, what she suggested is that we need to re-build trust because neither one of us feels safe enough with the other to be emotionally or physically intimate. We were to create a warm and inviting space somewhere within our house and commit to spending 20 minutes of connecting together. In our last session, I advised that I preferred simple touch without words, stuff like holding or massaging one another's hands, running hands through hair or even just sitting back to back. Basic connection. My wife prefers being able to speak and be actively listened to. Our MC suggested 10 minutes one way, 10 minutes the other. We have two young children, so we can really only do this after they are in bed.

I have a sense that this is just going to be a long road, and I accept that we may never get there. I am really honest in acknowledging that my own trust has been significantly betrayed and that my wife is not responsible for how I feel. I have carried a lot of this betrayal and lack of emotional safety from my childhood through my life. I want to heal this part of myself regardless of what my wife chooses or is able to do. That's how I am approaching it.

Is any of this helpful to you? What sorts of small steps have you tried to bring more connection or closeness?
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 01:19:43 PM »



So far, every effort time I have made an effort to act on MC's suggestions, it is met with the not close enough/too close response that is typical of BPD.

Still, what she suggested is that we need to re-build trust because neither one of us feels safe enough with the other to be emotionally or physically intimate. We were to create a warm and inviting space somewhere within our house and commit to spending 20 minutes of connecting together... .I have a sense that this is just going to be a long road, and I accept that we may never get there. I am really honest in acknowledging that my own trust has been significantly betrayed and that my wife is not responsible for how I feel. I have carried a lot of this betrayal and lack of emotional safety from my childhood through my life. I want to heal this part of myself regardless of what my wife chooses or is able to do. That's how I am approaching it.

Thank you, Takingandsending, for your very thoughtful response. When we were doing couples counseling, our T made a similar suggestion, but it was me who was reluctant to act upon it. I was just so p!$$ed off about his substance abuse that he disgusted me. Now I do see that he's trying and that he has made some positive changes, so I'm softening.

He seems to have a constant need to be entertained, so we typically watch TV together in the evening. I'm more selective as to what I'll watch, which he takes as invalidation, but I've been letting him know that I enjoy his company.

Due to his night owl behavior, prowling around the kitchen having a snack or more alcohol, I set a limit and go to bed no later than 10:30 every night. I used to wait up for him and my sleep was seriously disrupted when he'd stumble into bed at 2 AM. Now I sleep elsewhere and if he is ready to sleep, he will join me. Typically he doesn't because, even with sleeping pills, he needs to read for quite a while to "calm down."

So recently, I've been inviting him to lie down with me for a while and talk. I tell him that I know he's not ready for bed yet, but I just want to be with him for a while. When he gets up to do something else, it's his choice, so I think he's feeling a bit more appreciated.

I, too, have some major trust issues after a disastrous first marriage and a BPD mother. I'm ready to let go of this old stuff.
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 04:06:15 PM »

You guys sound further along than my wife and me.  :'(

At least you watch TV together. My wife and I do almost nothing relaxing or enjoyable together. We used to meditate and do buddhist practice together, which was a positive connection that kept us at least nominally close. But I am dealing with the being-angry-at-her factor, too, so my willingness to do anything other than what I really want to do is at a low.

I do think that small steps are more likely than large leaps right now. Even those are hard to come by. My wife did a typical emotional misdirection about not being able to relax in a cluttered bedroom, and I cleaned a contained cozy area out for us to connect. She immediately filled the space I cleaned with her art supplies for the next 2 weeks. She actually cleared it when I mentioned it 2 weeks later, but she declined 2 nights ago with trying to be connected with one another for 20 minutes because she had too much emotions around our two month budget. While these things are not as personal as they used to be, they still hurt and drive the wedge between us a little deeper.

I can only do my part and then let go of what happens. I wish you so much success in your efforts. It's such a tough spot to find yourself in. 
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2014, 04:33:45 PM »

I am dealing with the being-angry-at-her factor, too, so my willingness to do anything other than what I really want to do is at a low.

I can only do my part and then let go of what happens. I wish you so much success in your efforts. It's such a tough spot to find yourself in.  

Thanks for the hug and here's one right back at you.

My attitude improved recently after starting individual counseling with the woman my H and I saw last year for MC.

On his own, my H did a week long psychotherapy intensive this summer (after one of his friends did the course and really enjoyed it). The reason he went was because he has had difficulties with his sisters and not feeling like he was "part of the family."

I told him that I was seeking treatment with our previous therapist because he has shown improvement and I wanted to do so as well. This was partially true as my real reason was that I wanted to learn management strategies because I was so worn out by his behavior and she had seen him acting out and knew what I was dealing with.

She admitted that my H has a PD, but she did not diagnose him further. I had found this site and he fits at least 6 of the 9 criteria, so BPD is more apt than any other PD. I went through a period of profound grief with this realization. Previously I thought he was just being an a$$hole, but knowing he's mentally ill made me feel like I'd never have a partner who had my back.

So now, I'm coming out of the grief. I realize that my life is really blessed, regardless of whether my spouse can be as emotionally supportive of me as I would have liked. So--making lemonade out of lemons. I've been trying to avoid JADEing and to a lesser extent learning how to validate, which isn't as easy for me. However, things have been much smoother for me now that I've changed my behavior and I'm starting to feel more compassion for him. It's still easy to think he's a jerk, but I have to stop and remind myself that he has a PD. I've also realized that I needed to establish better boundaries after a lifetime of being disrespected. I'm done with that.
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2014, 04:38:12 PM »

Good for you, Cat! We are in the same boat Smiling (click to insert in post) Making chicken salad out of chicken something else rofl Smiling (click to insert in post)


I am dealing with the being-angry-at-her factor, too, so my willingness to do anything other than what I really want to do is at a low.

I can only do my part and then let go of what happens. I wish you so much success in your efforts. It's such a tough spot to find yourself in.  

Thanks for the hug and here's one right back at you.

My attitude improved recently after starting individual counseling with the woman my H and I saw last year for MC.

On his own, my H did a week long psychotherapy intensive this summer (after one of his friends did the course and really enjoyed it). The reason he went was because he has had difficulties with his sisters and not feeling like he was "part of the family."

I told him that I was seeking treatment with our previous therapist because he has shown improvement and I wanted to do so as well. This was partially true as my real reason was that I wanted to learn management strategies because I was so worn out by his behavior and she had seen him acting out and knew what I was dealing with.

She admitted that my H has a PD, but she did not diagnose him further. I had found this site and he fits at least 6 of the 9 criteria, so BPD is more apt than any other PD. I went through a period of profound grief with this realization. Previously I thought he was just being an a$$hole, but knowing he's mentally ill made me feel like I'd never have a partner who had my back.

So now, I'm coming out of the grief. I realize that my life is really blessed, regardless of whether my spouse can be as emotionally supportive of me as I would have liked. So--making lemonade out of lemons. I've been trying to avoid JADEing and to a lesser extent learning how to validate, which isn't as easy for me. However, things have been much smoother for me now that I've changed my behavior and I'm starting to feel more compassion for him. It's still easy to think he's a jerk, but I have to stop and remind myself that he has a PD. I've also realized that I needed to establish better boundaries after a lifetime of being disrespected. I'm done with that.

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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2014, 04:44:36 PM »

Good for you, Cat! We are in the same boat Smiling (click to insert in post) Making chicken salad out of chicken something else rofl Smiling (click to insert in post)

Hi Ethyl,

Yes, eternal optimists unite!

You've probably heard the joke about twin boys about five or six years old. Worried that the boys had developed extreme personalities -- one was a total pessimist, the other a total optimist -- their parents took them to a psychiatrist.

First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with brand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst into tears. "What's the matter?" the psychiatrist asked, baffled. ":)on't you want to play with any of the toys?" "Yes," the little boy bawled, "but if I did I'd only break them."

Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with horse manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitted just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from his brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his bare hands. "What do you think you're doing?" the psychiatrist asked, just as baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. "With all this manure," the little boy replied, beaming, "there must be a pony in here somewhere!"

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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2014, 04:51:08 PM »

Good for you, Cat! We are in the same boat Smiling (click to insert in post) Making chicken salad out of chicken something else rofl Smiling (click to insert in post)

Hi Ethyl,

Yes, eternal optimists unite!

You've probably heard the joke about twin boys about five or six years old. Worried that the boys had developed extreme personalities -- one was a total pessimist, the other a total optimist -- their parents took them to a psychiatrist.

First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with brand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst into tears. "What's the matter?" the psychiatrist asked, baffled. ":)on't you want to play with any of the toys?" "Yes," the little boy bawled, "but if I did I'd only break them."

Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with horse manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitted just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from his brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his bare hands. "What do you think you're doing?" the psychiatrist asked, just as baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. "With all this manure," the little boy replied, beaming, "there must be a pony in here somewhere!"

ROFLMAO! Never heard that! I don't know if I'd go so far to call myself an optimist, I'm usually a glass half empty kind of thinker. But this relationship has tried and tested me, and changed me for the better. I'm learning to like my own company, and how to like myself and be confident in my decisions without depending on someone else. I'm also learning patience and understanding, which I didn't have much of either before this Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2014, 06:31:29 PM »

I don't know if I'd go so far to call myself an optimist, I'm usually a glass half empty kind of thinker. But this relationship has tried and tested me, and changed me for the better. I'm learning to like my own company, and how to like myself and be confident in my decisions without depending on someone else. I'm also learning patience and understanding, which I didn't have much of either before this Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Trial by fire, the "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"--it's quite a ride! I find it humorous that I've suffered from a lack of self-esteem most of my life, but not now, and sometimes my husband gets irritated with me because I'm so easygoing and accuses me of thinking that I'm "so perfect". Nothing could be further from the truth, but I like myself and forgive myself for making mistakes and apparently he doesn't.

I still haven't mastered the patience and understanding part... .
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 09:53:47 PM »

 

How to love again, indeed.

We have our 10-years 'first kiss anniversary' soon. We are not married, so this is our yearly milestone.

Not that I think of it, may be also one reason for his major dysregulation... .He is saying he is trapped with me, he has lost ten years of his life helping me (out of my miserable life) and now he's left with nothing.  (Truth: despite some problems we are finally into something that can bring us income for the rest of our lives if we play it right)

I have lost my interest in candle light dinners, playing music, driving to 'romantic' places etc. Or rather: I have no energy for those. Sometimes he says: Why don't we have nice dinners anymore? I only say: there's no reason, we can have one anytime. I admit that since I started cooking every day at the café I have not paid much attention to our own kitchen... .

One night after reasonably good discussion he was on 'huggy mood' and next day he said jokingly: did you notice that our bodies touched? I almost said:'Oh, it was you, I thought it was Michael Persbrandt', but came to my senses last moment 

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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2014, 10:34:40 PM »

Quote from: Mie link=topic=238341.msg12538621#msg12538621 date


I have lost my interest in candle light dinners, playing music, driving to 'romantic' places etc. Or rather: I have no energy for those. Sometimes he says: Why don't we have nice dinners anymore? I only say: there's no reason, we can have one anytime. I admit that since I started cooking every day at the café I have not paid much attention to our own kitchen... .

These BPD SOs can really kill the romance... .
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 10:09:26 AM »

Hi Cat, Ethyl and Mie   

Cat, thanks for the hugs. This time of year is a bad one for my wife, and I have not been great about keeping my boundaries and taking care of myself first, so I find my resentment levels are rising (wonder if they have a thermometer for resentment?). But reading your words reflected my own general sentiments. I am really lucky. I have 2 great kids, a caring family, a beautiful place in the world that I live, good employment and friends there. And I am on the road to recovery of myself. Grief is sometimes a partner in my journey, and that's okay.

I generally would not call myself an optimist, but I think anyone living with someone with a mental illness, and perhaps especially BPD, shortchange ourselves in this regard. It takes incredible strength, bravery and optimism to look again and again at a person and see the good within them that they cannot see themselves. And it takes even greater strength to see it within ourselves, knowing that we may rarely, perhaps never, get the benefit of our partners seeing the inherent goodness within us and often when we most need them to see it. That is the loneliness that echoes in my heart - the one I haven't yet resolved. I am getting there.

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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 12:10:21 PM »

And it takes even greater strength to see it within ourselves, knowing that we may rarely, perhaps never, get the benefit of our partners seeing the inherent goodness within us and often when we most need them to see it. That is the loneliness that echoes in my heart - the one I haven't yet resolved. I am getting there.

It is so heartbreaking when he says he feels so lonely, and I just want to say  'I'm here!' But it wouldn't help, and I feel lonely too. He has his moments when he says: I know I'm a handful. Thank you so much for being with me.  
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 12:36:33 PM »

Not sure what the strategy here is, but I agree with starting with the small things.  That after you identify what the underlying issues are.

My underlying issue is that I feel less and less inclined to spend time with her because when I do, she won't live in the present with me.  It's always talk about what happened in the past, what might happen in the future, or other people.  I'd certainly love to spend time with her if we could focus on us and today and just having fun, but that never happens.  Perhaps that is part of your issue, too, in that you have a mental block against "loving again", because you remember how badly it went in the past.
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 04:36:09 PM »

This time of year is a bad one for my wife, and I have not been great about keeping my boundaries and taking care of myself first, so I find my resentment levels are rising (wonder if they have a thermometer for resentment?).

I generally would not call myself an optimist, but I think anyone living with someone with a mental illness, and perhaps especially BPD, shortchange ourselves in this regard. It takes incredible strength, bravery and optimism to look again and again at a person and see the good within them that they cannot see themselves. And it takes even greater strength to see it within ourselves, knowing that we may rarely, perhaps never, get the benefit of our partners seeing the inherent goodness within us and often when we most need them to see it. That is the loneliness that echoes in my heart - the one I haven't yet resolved. I am getting there.

Yes, Takingandsending, it takes incredible strength to do what we have to do being in relationship with a pwBPD. GROUP HUGS FOR ALL OF US WHO LOVE A DIFFICULT PARTNER      
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2014, 04:39:40 PM »

It is so heartbreaking when he says he feels so lonely, and I just want to say  'I'm here!' But it wouldn't help, and I feel lonely too. He has his moments when he says: I know I'm a handful. Thank you so much for being with me. 

My BPDh complains of loneliness too and I want to tell him, "Go serve someone, help at the homeless shelter or domestic violence center; your life is blessed, stop feeling sorry for yourself" but of course I don't.
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2014, 04:41:50 PM »

Not sure what the strategy here is, but I agree with starting with the small things.  That after you identify what the underlying issues are.

My underlying issue is that I feel less and less inclined to spend time with her because when I do, she won't live in the present with me.  It's always talk about what happened in the past, what might happen in the future, or other people.  I'd certainly love to spend time with her if we could focus on us and today and just having fun, but that never happens.  Perhaps that is part of your issue, too, in that you have a mental block against "loving again", because you remember how badly it went in the past.

I do have a mental block about being as open as I once was. I approached this relationship with my heart totally open and I began shutting down when I felt as though I was competing for his affections with alcohol, his true lover.

He's doing better now, but I'm wary.
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2014, 10:57:19 PM »

This is a great topic.

I think the answer is simple, at least philosophically... .if not in execution!

To love requires being vulnerable to your partner.

The more deeply you love, the more deeply vulnerable you are.

So what does it take to let yourself be vulnerable?

First, taking care of yourself, and working through the old resentments.

Then, it takes time to rebuild trust. And starting with being more vulnerable in small ways before you open up in big ways.
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 02:03:04 PM »

This is a great topic.

I think the answer is simple, at least philosophically... .if not in execution!

To love requires being vulnerable to your partner.

The more deeply you love, the more deeply vulnerable you are.

So what does it take to let yourself be vulnerable?

First, taking care of yourself, and working through the old resentments.

Then, it takes time to rebuild trust. And starting with being more vulnerable in small ways before you open up in big ways.

Thank you, Grey Kitty. I've found it difficult to work through the old resentments, but once I realized (and it was confirmed by our T) that my husband is mentally ill--"very damaged" is how she put it, I found reserves of compassion I didn't realize I had. Previously I thought he was just being an a$$hole.

This site is helping me so much. I had no clue about JADEing--I just thought I was explaining my motivation. Now that I let things pass that previously I would have tried to explain, our relationship is much smoother. And now I realize that it's pointless to try to communicate with him when he is dysregulated, I stop and he returns to normal much faster.

Someone else mentioned Brene Brown and the power of vulnerability. Here's her TED talk: www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability?language=en

I want to watch this again with my husband. It will be interesting what he will say about it--if he will say anything at all... .
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 03:21:18 PM »

This is such a good topic! There is so much good advice and great insights, and all of it rings a bell with me... .

After my husband's 2.5 year affair ended (way back in 1987, when we were married for 13.5 years), and we decided to renew our vows and continue our marriage, we had a really tense, sad, rocky time of it. I was still raw from the betrayal and all the pain I had gone through, and he was still licking his wounds over giving up his girlfriend  

It took a lot of time for our tentative steps towards being friends and intimate partners again to finally become second nature for the both of us. One of the things that helped us immensely was my reading of the book "Intimate Partners" by Maggie Scarf. I recommend it so highly; I read it and re-read it and did the little exercises she detailed. The book fascinated me and brought me right back to the feelings I'd had when I first met my husband--and showed me just why we had gotten together. It really opened my eyes to why he always "felt" like my soul mate, and why I was his (though it took an affair that went south to prove that to him   ).

I really recommend that book to everyone in a relationship (just like "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie); even if a couple is not having problems, that book (really both books) should be required reading for staying together and being happy. My Husband and I just celebrated our 40th Anniversary this year, and these 2 books were integral to that even being possible  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2014, 10:11:45 AM »

This is such a good topic! There is so much good advice and great insights, and all of it rings a bell with me... .

After my husband's 2.5 year affair ended (way back in 1987, when we were married for 13.5 years), and we decided to renew our vows and continue our marriage, we had a really tense, sad, rocky time of it. I was still raw from the betrayal and all the pain I had gone through, and he was still licking his wounds over giving up his girlfriend  

It took a lot of time for our tentative steps towards being friends and intimate partners again to finally become second nature for the both of us. One of the things that helped us immensely was my reading of the book "Intimate Partners" by Maggie Scarf. I recommend it so highly; I read it and re-read it and did the little exercises she detailed. The book fascinated me and brought me right back to the feelings I'd had when I first met my husband--and showed me just why we had gotten together. It really opened my eyes to why he always "felt" like my soul mate, and why I was his (though it took an affair that went south to prove that to him   ).

I really recommend that book to everyone in a relationship (just like "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie); even if a couple is not having problems, that book (really both books) should be required reading for staying together and being happy. My Husband and I just celebrated our 40th Anniversary this year, and these 2 books were integral to that even being possible  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I'm so glad you were able to reconnect and renew your love after his affair. I dealt with serial infidelity with my first husband and thankfully that's not an issue in my current marriage. Thank you for the book recommendation. I just ordered it. I need all the help I can get to learn how to forgive (alcohol abuse) and move forward in my relationship. I do want to make it work. On balance, the good greatly outweighs the bad. We've gotten stuck in repetitive patterns of negativity, which I'm starting to break through therapy and also through the tools and wisdom I'm learning on this site. I'm still having trouble validating--it's a very foreign skill when presented with irrational anger or weird thoughts, but I'm getting pretty good at catching myself before I JADE. Thanks to everyone for their contributions and if you can afford it, please support the fundraising drive.
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