My BPDh says he wants to be pushed

[ColdEthyl]

Every year, especially in the winter, my husband withdraws from his family and just quits answering their texts and phone calls, sometimes for months at a time. No one ever gives him a hard time about it, they don't even mention it.

I spoke to my mother in law today because she was worried about him. I told her he's ok, just doing that thing again... .and we talked quite a bit about BPD and his behavior for the past several years... .even some of when he was a child. This is first time she as open to talk a bout about it, which is good. I encouraged her to gather some information herself so she better understand.

Anyways, it came out that he wan't doing this whole hiding thing from his parents until we got together. Obviously, it's not my fault, but it made me think about something he says. Sometimes he will say to me things like "Sometimes I want a little push" or "Sometimes I want to kicked in the A**" when he's talking to me about how he's not working, and not really doing anything right now.

In my experience, it doesn't help for me to try to 'push' him into anything. In fact, it usually makes him dig his heels in more. I've been letting him do whatever he needs to do. I've told his family if they want to call me at any time they can do so, and I am more than willing to talk to them about what's going on, but I'm not about to argue and fight and force a grown man call his mom.

Is this some sort of BPD trickery? Like, he want me to try to force him into something, so he can get mad and fight? So he can put the blame on me? Or is he really asking me to help him? If so, what's the best way to help him, without doing things for him or triggering a dysregulation?

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[vortex of confusion]

I am interested in hearing the responses that you get. I was having a conversation with my husband a day or so ago and he said something along the lines of wishing I had gotten firmer or demanding sooner. I think he said something along the lines of, "I'm really good at taking direction." But, I was sitting there thinking that there have been times in the past when I tried to give direction or encourage him to do something only to have him push back or get upset.

Early in our marriage, I used to make sure that he called his mother regularly and sent birthday cards, etc. at the appropriate time. I stopped all of that completely. It is not my job to manage his relationship with his mother or anybody else. That is HIS place to manage his relationships with other people. My only concern is his relationship with me and our kids.

I do think they want help, they just don't know what kind of help it is that they want or need. It is like being a little kid. You know you need something but you aren't sure what it is and you look to those around you to help you figure it out.

[ColdEthyl]

I am interested in hearing the responses that you get. I was having a conversation with my husband a day or so ago and he said something along the lines of wishing I had gotten firmer or demanding sooner. I think he said something along the lines of, "I'm really good at taking direction." But, I was sitting there thinking that there have been times in the past when I tried to give direction or encourage him to do something only to have him push back or get upset.

Early in our marriage, I used to make sure that he called his mother regularly and sent birthday cards, etc. at the appropriate time. I stopped all of that completely. It is not my job to manage his relationship with his mother or anybody else. That is HIS place to manage his relationships with other people. My only concern is his relationship with me and our kids.

I do think they want help, they just don't know what kind of help it is that they want or need. It is like being a little kid. You know you need something but you aren't sure what it is and you look to those around you to help you figure it out.

It's very interesting your husband does/says the same things.  What's curious to me is he really didn't do this until he met me, and honestly I assumed he had done it all along. I'm wondering how it went with his ex... .did she just badger/fight with him until he did it? Does he like the drama? If he wants the drama... .he married the wrong girl

[maxsterling]

He is an adult.  Don't agree to do things for him that a reasonable adult should be able to do for himself.  Why?  Because if something goes wrong, he blames you.  I face this ALL the time.  And I mean DAILY.  The latest is that she wants to join a gym.  She has joined a gym 3 times over the past 2 years, and two times she never used her membership after two months and decided to quit.  Now she says, "If you join with me, we could work out together and I would be more motivated to go."  Well, I don't really like gyms, I don't have the time to go, but I suppose it could be good for me.  Yet I know if I joined, and she didn't go, the blame would be on me for not going with her or not pushing her.  I am then her excuse for not being in shape.  I don't want to go there.

Another issue is waking up in the morning.  She will want me to wake her up.  A few times I have said, "sure, I will help you wake up."  And when morning comes and I try to wake her up, and she keeps laying in bed after I wake her, she blames me.  So, I quit saying I will help her.  Yet the other morning, she pressed snooze three times, she kept pleading for my help in motivating her to get up, I kept trying to wake her up but stopped short of forcefully getting her out of bed.  And she cursed at me and blamed me... .

[ColdEthyl]

He is an adult.  Don't agree to do things for him that a reasonable adult should be able to do for himself.  Why?  Because if something goes wrong, he blames you.  I face this ALL the time.  And I mean DAILY.  The latest is that she wants to join a gym.  She has joined a gym 3 times over the past 2 years, and two times she never used her membership after two months and decided to quit.  Now she says, "If you join with me, we could work out together and I would be more motivated to go."  Well, I don't really like gyms, I don't have the time to go, but I suppose it could be good for me.  Yet I know if I joined, and she didn't go, the blame would be on me for not going with her or not pushing her.  I am then her excuse for not being in shape.  I don't want to go there.

Another issue is waking up in the morning.  She will want me to wake her up.  A few times I have said, "sure, I will help you wake up."  And when morning comes and I try to wake her up, and she keeps laying in bed after I wake her, she blames me.  So, I quit saying I will help her.  Yet the other morning, she pressed snooze three times, she kept pleading for my help in motivating her to get up, I kept trying to wake her up but stopped short of forcefully getting her out of bed.  And she cursed at me and blamed me... .

See, THAT's what I was worried about... .that he was sort of looking for a way to not blame himself but blame ME. I just tell him he's a grown man, I love and support him, but I'm not going to make/force him to do anything. He's mentioned the gym thing, too. He's gained some weight since he's been out of work and hates himself, he's the heaviest he's ever been (180 lbs, still nothing to worry about) but won't actually do anything about it. I've offered him to go walking int he morning with me and my daughter, or we could go to the gym at my work. Nope. Won't do anything. Whenever he starts complaining about things like that... .I ask him what he would like to do about it. IE "I'm so fat. look at this. This is the fattest I've ever been." Me "I'm sorry and I understand you are not happy with how you look right now. What would you like to do about that?" And he will talk about doing things, or says he has to think about it.

But with this, if he didn't do this to his parents before me... .I can't help but wonder if there's something I'm doing that's accidentally encouraging this behavior. I honestly can't see what I'm doing wrong, so I guess it's just him but that timing throws me off.

[vortex of confusion]

But with this, if he didn't do this to his parents before me... .I can't help but wonder if there's something I'm doing that's accidentally encouraging this behavior. I honestly can't see what I'm doing wrong, so I guess it's just him but that timing throws me off.

How long have you been together? How many other partners did he have before you? What is his family of origin like? Is he hiding from them at the holidays because they tend to create drama or annoy him?

You don't have to answer those questions here but they are things to consider. Also, it sounds like there might be some triangulation going on with his parents. You are telling them that they can call you and find out how he is doing. Can you set a boundary with them and tell them that if they want to know how he is doing they are going to have to take it up with him? I fell into the trap of being a go between with him and his parents for a while. I am not sure how or when I stepped out of that role but I do know that at some point I quit calling his mom and I stopped doing the whole go between thing. I would periodically ask him, "When is the last time that you called your mom?" I still ask from time to time but not nearly as much any more. When I ask, it is usually just to find out how she is doing. I think it was last week or so that he was talking to his mom and she was asking him if she had anything that he wanted because she is trying to clean out her house and get rid of a bunch of stuff. He put me on the phone and I told him mom stuff that the kids might like but went on to tell her that it is really up to my husband because whatever she might have would only have sentimental value to him or the kids. I don't remember exactly how I phrased it but I put it back on him because it is HIS family stuff and not mine.

Would he talk to his parents if you didn't agree to talk to them and let them know how he is doing? Is he trying to hide something from his parents? I know that my husband doesn't like talking to his mom when he is trying to keep something from her.

[Cat Familiar]

I am interested in hearing the responses that you get. I was having a conversation with my husband a day or so ago and he said something along the lines of wishing I had gotten firmer or demanding sooner. I think he said something along the lines of, "I'm really good at taking direction." But, I was sitting there thinking that there have been times in the past when I tried to give direction or encourage him to do something only to have him push back or get upset.

I do think they want help, they just don't know what kind of help it is that they want or need. It is like being a little kid. You know you need something but you aren't sure what it is and you look to those around you to help you figure it out.

Hoo boy! If I even give the slight appearance of "giving direction" to my spouse, he gets irritated and starts digging his heels in to do exactly the opposite.

[vortex of confusion]

[quote author=vortex of confusion link=topic=238368.msg12538481#msg12538481 date=14180754

Hoo boy! If I even give the slight appearance of "giving direction" to my spouse, he gets irritated and starts digging his heels in to do exactly the opposite.

I had to laugh because that is the most confusing thing in the world. They ask for help but when you give them help, they get mad. It is the whole push/pull thing.

My husband said he wanted to change jobs so I would send him job postings because we are in the same field and I am always on the look out for part time or work from home opportunities. He recently applied for a job and got an interview. When he talks about it, he makes such a big deal about how HE found that posting all by himself as though he resented the fact that I used to send him postings. But he told me to send him anything that I saw that I thought he might be interested in doing. It is crazy how they simultaneously want help but then get mad at you for helping.

[Cat Familiar]

I had to laugh because that is the most confusing thing in the world. They ask for help but when you give them help, they get mad. It is the whole push/pull thing.

My husband said he wanted to change jobs so I would send him job postings because we are in the same field and I am always on the look out for part time or work from home opportunities. He recently applied for a job and got an interview. When he talks about it, he makes such a big deal about how HE found that posting all by himself as though he resented the fact that I used to send him postings. But he told me to send him anything that I saw that I thought he might be interested in doing. It is crazy how they simultaneously want help but then get mad at you for helping.

I'm amazed by my husband taking credit for things I do solely on my own. When he brings friends the tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, etc. that I planted, watered, nurtured, harvested, put in a bag, it's "we grew these veggies in our garden. Makes me wonder how much credit he stole from colleagues and subordinates when he was still working.

And he acts as though he rides the horses we have, even though it's been years since I've been able to get him horseback and he's terrified of them. I quit asking when I realized that he was genuinely afraid, not just unaccustomed.

[Cat Familiar]

He's mentioned the gym thing, too. He's gained some weight since he's been out of work and hates himself, he's the heaviest he's ever been (180 lbs, still nothing to worry about) but won't actually do anything about it. I've offered him to go walking in the morning with me and my daughter, or we could go to the gym at my work. Nope. Won't do anything. Whenever he starts complaining about things like that... .I ask him what he would like to do about it. IE "I'm so fat. look at this. This is the fattest I've ever been." Me "I'm sorry and I understand you are not happy with how you look right now. What would you like to do about that?" And he will talk about doing things, or says he has to think about it.

I made the mistake a few years ago of giving my husband AKA "the couch potato" a Christmas gift certificate for personal training at a very nice gym. BIG MISTAKE!

I thought he would enjoy it because he used to be athletic, but no, he did use it and hated it, and boy did I get an earful!

With that in mind, I decided to start going to yoga classes and asked him to join me. I get plenty of exercise and tend to be self-motivated to work out (but I've been lazy recently--maybe depressed--but it's lifting and I want to start training again--other than all the animal care/yard work/handyman stuff I do). But I thought if I did yoga that maybe he'd get off his butt and do something healthy for himself. To my surprise, he loves it! Just can't figure out this guy... .

[Grey Kitty]

Thought #1 about being pushed. I'm personally very capable of avoiding work, procrastinating, and not doing things which are good for me. (And no, I'm not the one with BPD!)

When my wife would nag/push me to do something, my natural reaction is to dig my heels in and refuse to do it, even if it was something I wanted to do. It is really weird to see that I have a reaction like that which works that hard against me. (I have had some success fighting the reaction, but I do better when I'm not 'pushed'

Thought #2: I've really pushed my wife hard to up her game, so to speak, and it has been successful at times.

Most of my successes are cases where I decided to stop enabling her, let her feel the consequences of her own actions... .or when I enforced boundaries, and took away her preferred coping mechanism of making it my fault and picking a fight with me.

Thought #3: Since your H really did ask you to "push him", next time it is obvious that he's doing something that deserves a push... .ask him about that request to give him a push... .does he want one now?

If you do it a couple times, most likely, he'll learn not to ask for it... .or you will learn not to give it to him even though he does ask for it... .or possibly it will help, but that one seems least likely.

[Mie]

I relate to you. Kicking his ass or not: eternal dilemma.   

Suggesting him something can cause two reactions: 'Oh, good idea, thank you for caring about me' or 'What the... f do you know about me and my interests, what a ridiculous idea... .'.

Asking for his help as well: 'Of course I help you. Come on, I'm your greatest buddy and will always help you' or 'You can't do anything without me, how can you be so helpless... .'.

Also, NOT asking for help may be a trigger:' Why don't you just ASK me for help? You think you can do everything, you and your ':)IY culture'... .!' (Sometimes he does not like me to do 'men's work' like changing car tyres - on the other hand , when it suits him, he says 'you can handle it, and I'm proud of you' )

Also, he really wants to do things together. For him, it is bonding. (Now I have to look in the mirror: I'd rather do things alone because I think it's more efficient). He asked in the evening if I can help him to put the terrace furniture in the winter storage in the morning. He has arranged a van already. Ok, what can I say. I had other plans, but this has to be done. He could perfectly do it on his own, but If I dare to mention that it will be a big row, as you can imagine.

Oh, and about him taking credit of things  I could write a book too.

[maxsterling]

Well, last night she was in a grouchy and blaming mood again.  I volunteered to go to the store to get a few things, asked her if she wanted to pick up something for her.  She replied "chocolate" and "ice cream".  Okay.  Then while I was at the store she texted me "maybe a cookie".  So I brought home a small container of chocolate ice cream and a box of 10 cookies.  She proceeded to eat 5 cookies and half the container of ice cream.  30 minutes later she was saying things like "why did you buy that ice cream? I want you to take the rest of it out to the trash."  She blamed me for buying the cookies, blamed me for making her fat, then the old guilt trip "when I eat like that I feel fat and disgusting and I won't want to have sex with you when I feel this way!" 

Good grief.  No capability to look at herself.  I did point out that I brought home the cookies because she asked for them.  It's not my business to regulate what she eats. 

[ColdEthyl]

But with this, if he didn't do this to his parents before me... .I can't help but wonder if there's something I'm doing that's accidentally encouraging this behavior. I honestly can't see what I'm doing wrong, so I guess it's just him but that timing throws me off.

How long have you been together? How many other partners did he have before you? What is his family of origin like? Is he hiding from them at the holidays because they tend to create drama or annoy him?

You don't have to answer those questions here but they are things to consider. Also, it sounds like there might be some triangulation going on with his parents. You are telling them that they can call you and find out how he is doing. Can you set a boundary with them and tell them that if they want to know how he is doing they are going to have to take it up with him? I fell into the trap of being a go between with him and his parents for a while. I am not sure how or when I stepped out of that role but I do know that at some point I quit calling his mom and I stopped doing the whole go between thing. I would periodically ask him, "When is the last time that you called your mom?" I still ask from time to time but not nearly as much any more. When I ask, it is usually just to find out how she is doing. I think it was last week or so that he was talking to his mom and she was asking him if she had anything that he wanted because she is trying to clean out her house and get rid of a bunch of stuff. He put me on the phone and I told him mom stuff that the kids might like but went on to tell her that it is really up to my husband because whatever she might have would only have sentimental value to him or the kids. I don't remember exactly how I phrased it but I put it back on him because it is HIS family stuff and not mine.

Would he talk to his parents if you didn't agree to talk to them and let them know how he is doing? Is he trying to hide something from his parents? I know that my husband doesn't like talking to his mom when he is trying to keep something from her.

We have been together 5 years, married a little over one.

Before me, the majors were is ex-wife of 14 years, then he had a fiancee for 2 years before she passed, and his last ex-gf he was with 4 years.

His mother called me after not hearing from him for 2 months. His birthday was the beginning of this month, and she tried to call but he let his phone get shut off. He's had the money for a month to get it turned back on, but he purposely let it get turned off so he didn't have to call anyone.

Part of it is holidays and his birthday suck for him.  He hates them. He doesn't have anything to keep from them, other than when he does talk to her again, he will make up some BS as to why he's been unavailable. So, I think another part of it is he's stalling because it's easier to hide than to deall with what you have done.

I do not call his parents or his brother to justify his actions. If they ask me, I tell them the truth. I offer for THEM, not him, that they can call me if they get concerned. They haven't been able to call him at all since he shut his phone off. He doesn't know his parents/brother call me. I do not tell him, and I especially do not tell him I'm talking to them about his BPD.

[ColdEthyl]

Thought #1 about being pushed. I'm personally very capable of avoiding work, procrastinating, and not doing things which are good for me. (And no, I'm not the one with BPD!)

When my wife would nag/push me to do something, my natural reaction is to dig my heels in and refuse to do it, even if it was something I wanted to do. It is really weird to see that I have a reaction like that which works that hard against me. (I have had some success fighting the reaction, but I do better when I'm not 'pushed'

Thought #2: I've really pushed my wife hard to up her game, so to speak, and it has been successful at times.

Most of my successes are cases where I decided to stop enabling her, let her feel the consequences of her own actions... .or when I enforced boundaries, and took away her preferred coping mechanism of making it my fault and picking a fight with me.

Thought #3: Since your H really did ask you to "push him", next time it is obvious that he's doing something that deserves a push... .ask him about that request to give him a push... .does he want one now?

If you do it a couple times, most likely, he'll learn not to ask for it... .or you will learn not to give it to him even though he does ask for it... .or possibly it will help, but that one seems least likely.

Good thought on that, Kitty. Next time something comes up, I'll bring it up and see what happens.

[ColdEthyl]

Well, last night she was in a grouchy and blaming mood again.  I volunteered to go to the store to get a few things, asked her if she wanted to pick up something for her.  She replied "chocolate" and "ice cream".  Okay.  Then while I was at the store she texted me "maybe a cookie".  So I brought home a small container of chocolate ice cream and a box of 10 cookies.  She proceeded to eat 5 cookies and half the container of ice cream.  30 minutes later she was saying things like "why did you buy that ice cream? I want you to take the rest of it out to the trash."  She blamed me for buying the cookies, blamed me for making her fat, then the old guilt trip "when I eat like that I feel fat and disgusting and I won't want to have sex with you when I feel this way!" 

Good grief.  No capability to look at herself.  I did point out that I brought home the cookies because she asked for them.  It's not my business to regulate what she eats. 

rofl good grief, max! If it makes you feel better, I got a lecture on how I bought the wrong brand of soap last night. See, I bought Irish Spring, and "Irish Spring should ONLY be bought in the summer, because it dries out your skin. And can't you see how dry my skin is? You would think I would care enough about his skin to buy Ivory in the winter like he asks me all the time. Why can't I remember the simplest things... ."

Keep in mind he has 1,000 little nitpicky things on his list

My husband will talk about how fat he is in one breath, then complain that everyone eats way more than him, and he never gets any leftovers. "Everyone eats 6 times a day, because I can hear how many times a day the refrigerator is open! And the door is never closed! You would think with someone who check the fridge 8 times a day would know how to shut the door properly!"

(the number of times the fridge door is open per day is dependent on how angry he is at the time of telling me about this grievance)

We talked about some heavy stuff last night. No fighting, but a lot of dysregulation. We would talk about the important stuff, then he would skitter off into something like this, then kind of wind back to the original conversation... .then zip! Back into something else. The good thing is... .I'm getting him to TALK to me about what's really bothering him, but it's like his mind starts snapping on every little thing that happened in the past few days, and he's just as angry about those things as the real issues.

Poor guy... .you can really see the struggle of him not being able to handle his emotions, or know exactly how to apply them.