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Author Topic: What should I say?  (Read 538 times)
Craydar
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« on: December 08, 2014, 08:30:55 PM »

I haven't spoken to my uxBPDgf in 3 months since she replaced me with another guy.  I thought by now I would have moved on and connected with one of the women I have dated, but I have not. I'm thinking that the best way to get her interested in talking to me again is to mention some of the amazing times we've had. But what else?  Thoughts?
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 11:10:13 PM »

What do you want with her?

Friendship?

Rebuilding your prior relationship?

Something else?
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Craydar
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2014, 05:45:09 AM »

What do you want with her?

Friendship?

Rebuilding your prior relationship?

Something else?

A relationship of some sort. More than friends.
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2014, 06:11:54 AM »

I haven't spoken to my uxBPDgf in 3 months since she replaced me with another guy.  

Is she still seeing this other guy?

Has she made any attempts at contacting you? 

Are you clear on why you'd like to get back together?

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Craydar
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 08:18:18 AM »

I haven't spoken to my uxBPDgf in 3 months since she replaced me with another guy.  

Is she still seeing this other guy?

Has she made any attempts at contacting you? 

Are you clear on why you'd like to get back together?

She has not contacted me. That is why I am doing it.

I don't care about the other guy

And yes I'm clear on why.

I appreciate the responses but these are just questions. Ive received 6 Questions to my question. (?) does anyone have thoughts?
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 08:40:18 AM »

She has not contacted me. That is why I am doing it.

I don't care about the other guy

And yes I'm clear on why.

I appreciate the responses but these are just questions. Ive received 6 Questions to my question. (?) does anyone have thoughts?

After two BPD marriages, I really question why anyone would choose a partner with BPD when there are plenty of healthy individuals who won't bring the misery into your life that is inevitable with mental illness.

My suggestion is counseling so that you can explore why you want to revisit a relationship with a woman with mental illness.

My next suggestion is moving somewhere else if you've exhausted the potential dating pool in your area.
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 09:04:09 AM »

 Ive received 6 Questions to my question. (?) does anyone have thoughts?

Just so you know... .people tend to ask lots of questions to make sure they have the full story... .and are giving a good answer.  My tendency is to ask a bunch of questions as well.  But... .if you want my thoughts on how to proceed here they are.

Call this person up.  Say hey... .tell them that you miss them... .miss the r/s (relationship) and that you would like to get together for coffee (or something else like that... .) and talk.  

If they agree to meet... .then maybe there is a future.  If they don't agree... .you have your answer... .don't expend further time on this matter.

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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 09:40:24 AM »

I haven't spoken to my uxBPDgf in 3 months since she replaced me with another guy.  I thought by now I would have moved on and connected with one of the women I have dated, but I have not. I'm thinking that the best way to get her interested in talking to me again is to mention some of the amazing times we've had. But what else?  Thoughts?

IME, a relationship with a pwPD is like the movie '50 First Dates".
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 10:01:30 AM »

I haven't spoken to my uxBPDgf in 3 months since she replaced me with another guy.  I thought by now I would have moved on and connected with one of the women I have dated, but I have not. I'm thinking that the best way to get her interested in talking to me again is to mention some of the amazing times we've had. But what else?  Thoughts?

IME, a relationship with a pwPD is like the movie '50 First Dates".

LOL.  Another of my wife's favorites Smiling (click to insert in post)  I think it is funny that when one of you mention a movie that is an analogy to BPD in some way, it's always one of my wife's favorite's Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 05:37:29 PM »

I appreciate the responses but these are just questions. Ive received 6 Questions to my question. (?) does anyone have thoughts?

I asked you questions because I didn't know what thoughts to offer you without some more information.

Now I've got one thought, and I don't expect you to like it. However I'm a guy whose wife just cheated on him, so this matters to me.

What the heck are you thinking about when you say "She's replaced me." followed by "I want to be more than friends." and then "I don't care about the other guy."

If you chase after her, the outcome you seem to be aiming for is to get her to cheat on the new guy with you. Or at least get her to dump the new guy for you.

Is that really the way you want to live?
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 06:30:53 PM »

What the heck are you thinking about when you say "She's replaced me." followed by "I want to be more than friends." and then "I don't care about the other guy."

If you chase after her, the outcome you seem to be aiming for is to get her to cheat on the new guy with you. Or at least get her to dump the new guy for you.

Is that really the way you want to live?

I second Grey Kitty on this. In my experience, pwBPD are really good at creating romance in the beginning  and horrible at the day to day grind of maintaining relationships.

You're opening yourself to a whole world of hurt with this woman. Perhaps the other women you've met haven't been as exciting, but there's a big price to pay being in a relationship with a pwBPD.
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« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2014, 02:28:29 PM »

Hey Craydar people do ask questions to better align their understanding and respond. Really you present a different scenario.

"You don't care about the other guy". I don't know your relationship with her fell apart Craydar but it's evident there were real reasons for that.

What about if she does care for the other guy? What if the other guy is better for her, understands and supports her better? Is any of your desire to get back together with her reflect on what's best for her or simply what you'd like to get out of rekindling a failed relationship?

Yup there are always a lot of questions Craydar because it isn't always about just one person but what's best for everyone in a given situation.

If she hasn't had contact with you there are probably really good reasons in her mind for that. Like one poster said but danced around, why would you chose to take on the difficulties of a BPD relationship, knowing the difficulties and constant situations of negativity and personal challenges you would necessarily have with a person that doesn't have this disorder. What's in it for you and what motivates you to do that? Most people would read a want for a sexual relationship in that response. Probably isn't the motivating factor though.

To make a relationship with a BPD work there has to be WANT. Not simply a want for a physical relationship or experience but the real want to do what's necessary to make her life livable with a chance of happiness, fulfillment and progress in her taking therapy and improving her own lot in life. Honestly in the long run it has very little to do with what the partner without this disorder wants. The needs of the person with the illness supercede wants to have a normal, healthy, trouble free, caring and sharing partnership because that doesn't at all define the progress of a relationship with a person with this illness unless they've spent years in therapy and overcome the majority of their fears and consequences of BPD thinking.

Do your wants take into consideration really what her NEEDS are and what's best for her? I just don't hear that, nor do I hear a concern for the other guy she's with currently.

We all have a lot of experience dealing with BPD here and the reason most of stay here and take on these challenges is because we do care for others and consider other people's best interests and not just our own wants or needs. It really does take a person with those characteristics to stand up and make progress supporting someone for a life time with this illness. I would hope if you aren't made of that stuff that you'd recognize that you may not be the right person to support her and maybe, just maybe this OTHER guy who "doesn't matter" is the person that can offer her support, concern and caring, maybe not.

Wish I had some better answers for you but considering your posts it would be my advice that perhaps you'd both be better to take a lesson from your first failure and know that it might not be the right thing for you to pursuit or venture back into.
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Craydar
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2014, 05:59:17 PM »

Hey Craydar people do ask questions to better align their understanding and respond. Really you present a different scenario.

"You don't care about the other guy". I don't know your relationship with her fell apart Craydar but it's evident there were real reasons for that.

What about if she does care for the other guy? What if the other guy is better for her, understands and supports her better? Is any of your desire to get back together with her reflect on what's best for her or simply what you'd like to get out of rekindling a failed relationship?

Yup there are always a lot of questions Craydar because it isn't always about just one person but what's best for everyone in a given situation.

If she hasn't had contact with you there are probably really good reasons in her mind for that. Like one poster said but danced around, why would you chose to take on the difficulties of a BPD relationship, knowing the difficulties and constant situations of negativity and personal challenges you would necessarily have with a person that doesn't have this disorder. What's in it for you and what motivates you to do that? Most people would read a want for a sexual relationship in that response. Probably isn't the motivating factor though.

To make a relationship with a BPD work there has to be WANT. Not simply a want for a physical relationship or experience but the real want to do what's necessary to make her life livable with a chance of happiness, fulfillment and progress in her taking therapy and improving her own lot in life. Honestly in the long run it has very little to do with what the partner without this disorder wants. The needs of the person with the illness supercede wants to have a normal, healthy, trouble free, caring and sharing partnership because that doesn't at all define the progress of a relationship with a person with this illness unless they've spent years in therapy and overcome the majority of their fears and consequences of BPD thinking.

Do your wants take into consideration really what her NEEDS are and what's best for her? I just don't hear that, nor do I hear a concern for the other guy she's with currently.

We all have a lot of experience dealing with BPD here and the reason most of stay here and take on these challenges is because we do care for others and consider other people's best interests and not just our own wants or needs. It really does take a person with those characteristics to stand up and make progress supporting someone for a life time with this illness. I would hope if you aren't made of that stuff that you'd recognize that you may not be the right person to support her and maybe, just maybe this OTHER guy who "doesn't matter" is the person that can offer her support, concern and caring, maybe not.

While I understand your position on wanting to care for others. I cannot support your thinking about why I should give a ___ about some unsuspecting ass clown who replaced me.  Screw him. And maybe her needs are better met with the other guy?  That's crazy.  I won't suppress my feelings about her so someone else can enjoy what we had. As I explained, I'm not a doctor and cannot diagnose her.  She may not have BPD. I may have made mistakes but if I didn't think that this was right, I wouldn't be doing it. As far as physical relationships go, I certainly have other options. It's way way more than that. The initial question was "what should I say?" That it.  I'm not asking "why or why shouldn't I contact her?" It's a relationship, not a philosophical or discussion about who may or may not be the best to care for the sick. 
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2014, 06:12:38 PM »

You seem a bit hostile about the replies you've received from us. I think many of us are trying to warn you to be careful, but you seem determined to get back into a relationship with her. Good luck.
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2014, 06:30:36 PM »

You seem a bit hostile about the replies you've received from us. I think many of us are trying to warn you to be careful, but you seem determined to get back into a relationship with her. Good luck.

I'm not hostile at all. I asked a specific question. A relatively simple one. I actually sense a lot of hostility in the responses because people can't just answer it. Instead they go through all of the reasons why I shouldn't in their impassioned way. I'm past that. Again, I'm just looking for an answer to my question.  One that nobody seems to be able to provide. I've provided very specific answers to others questions, I'm just hoping that I can get the answers I'm looking for.
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2014, 06:33:11 PM »

I understand that people in this community are very impassioned about this issue and mean well. Everyone is different. I'm not an expert and I cannot diagnose her. While I believe she has some of these traits, I can't be certain it's BPD or a diagnosable Cluster B disorder.  I did a lot of stupid things to drive her away but at the time I felt it was justified. In hindsight I realized it may have not been. Here are some of my actions and what caused me to react that way.

I acted jealous -- she would cancel plans and disappear for a while.

I was her emotional sounding board -- she was angry often but rarely directed that anger towards me. At least not till the end

I was clingy -- I only clung on when I felt she was pulling away. I received very little if any explanation as to why she did the push-pull

She found another guy -- Anybody who does these things in a relationship has a high probability of being dumped. Women simply lose attraction to men exhibiting these needy beta-male actions. 

I won't go back and stay if it ends up that it's not right. Now that I know about BPD. I am able to look at this in a completely different light. 
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2014, 06:49:22 PM »

I haven't spoken to my uxBPDgf in 3 months since she replaced me with another guy.  I thought by now I would have moved on and connected with one of the women I have dated, but I have not. I'm thinking that the best way to get her interested in talking to me again is to mention some of the amazing times we've had. But what else?  Thoughts?

OK, to answer your question (and it's helpful given the information you just provided in your last post), you could call her and tell her you've been thinking about her and wonder how she's been. Ask her questions that show you're curious about her and that you're interested in her.

We women often complain that men don't listen to us. It's intoxicating when a man seems fascinated by what we're saying (and very rare)--so listen up guys!

So often men will inquire about something and then interrupt to tell us about themselves. (not attractive)

To address some of your previous reactions:

1. Jealousy--never good, but you know this already

2. Emotional sounding board--guaranteed to keep you in the "friend zone"

3. Clingy--same as #1

She's had some time with the other guy, so the newness might have worn off. If you maintain an air of mystery--don't play all your cards at once--women like the challenge and guys that are too eager are suspect--she might be intrigued and think that you're different than you were before and worth a second look.

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« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2014, 07:10:58 PM »

I'm thinking that the best way to get her interested in talking to me again is to mention some of the amazing times we've had. But what else?

I'm sorry you didn't like my first answer. I'll give you the best answer I can, in terms of what I might say to her if I were in your shoes.

"You know, we had some really amazing times together before everything went to ___. I still love you and care about you a lot, and I know I messed up a bunch. If/when you are single, I'd like to try again. I want to prove that I can do better."

If she's into you, she will run with that... .or at least consider it.

If she does indeed have BPD traits (as you say), and she's painted you black (which fits what you've said so far), your chances are low. At least until she decides to paint her current guy black, dump him and perhaps paint you white again.




I really don't get this:

I cannot support your thinking about why I should give a ___ about some unsuspecting ass clown who replaced me.  Screw him.

Perhaps I don't understand the term "replacement guy" the same way you do. Here's what it means to me, in basic chronology:

1. You and she were together for a while, and it was amazing.

You two were an item.

2. Things went to ___, and then she broke up with you, or you broke up with her.

You are single, she is single.

3. She got involved with another guy, almost immediately. (Your replacement)

You are single. [dating other people]

She is in a relationship. Not single.

(You are here!)

From this guy's point of view, you are his girlfriend's crazy ex, because she probably tells him horrible stories about what you did... .true or not, most likely not.

I see absolutely no reason to respect HIM. I probably wouldn't give him the time of day in your shoes.

I do see an ethical obligation to respect his POSITION. He's in a relationship. That deserves some respect. If she's involved with him, you shouldn't get involved with her.


I'm sure she was involved with a guy before you. How would you have felt if she started reconnecting with her ex while you were with her?
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2014, 07:21:34 PM »

From this guy's point of view, you are his girlfriend's crazy ex, because she probably tells him horrible stories about what you did... .true or not, most likely not.

I'm sure she was involved with a guy before you. How would you have felt if she started reconnecting with her ex while you were with her?

Not to debate the ethics about this, but I'm with GK. I think it would be most honorable to tell her that if/when she's single again, you'd love another opportunity to be with her.

You've got some major strikes against you so you've got to play this out perfectly, otherwise why do it? If you're hoping for a hookup while she's with the other guy, you look like a sleaze bag. It's possible that you might succeed, but in her eyes you've just devalued yourself.

It depends upon what you want. Is this woman marriage material or was she just amazingly hot in the sack?

Women don't look too kindly upon men who just want to get laid. It might be fun for a while, but if you want something enduring, you've got to be honorable.

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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2014, 01:12:07 AM »

I haven't spoken to my uxBPDgf in 3 months since she replaced me with another guy.  I thought by now I would have moved on and connected with one of the women I have dated, but I have not. I'm thinking that the best way to get her interested in talking to me again is to mention some of the amazing times we've had. But what else?  Thoughts?

OK, to answer your question (and it's helpful given the information you just provided in your last post), you could call her and tell her you've been thinking about her and wonder how she's been. Ask her questions that show you're curious about her and that you're interested in her.

We women often complain that men don't listen to us. It's intoxicating when a man seems fascinated by what we're saying (and very rare)--so listen up guys!

So often men will inquire about something and then interrupt to tell us about themselves. (not attractive)

To address some of your previous reactions:

1. Jealousy--never good, but you know this already

2. Emotional sounding board--guaranteed to keep you in the "friend zone"

3. Clingy--same as #1

She's had some time with the other guy, so the newness might have worn off. If you maintain an air of mystery--don't play all your cards at once--women like the challenge and guys that are too eager are suspect--she might be intrigued and think that you're different than you were before and worth a second look.

Thank you! This is what i believe and it's great to hear and answer that confirms my thinking. I'm conflicted on #2 -  Emotional sounding board seems a lot like "We women often complain that men don't listen to us. It's intoxicating when a man seems fascinated by what we're saying (and very rare)--so listen up guys!" from CatFamiliar. Can't really have it both ways
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2014, 01:19:46 AM »

Thank you for this:

"You know, we had some really amazing times together before everything went to ___. I still love you and care about you a lot, and I know I messed up a bunch. If/when you are single, I'd like to try again. I want to prove that I can do better."

If she's into you, she will run with that... .or at least consider it.

If she does indeed have BPD traits (as you say), and she's painted you black (which fits what you've said so far), your chances are low. At least until she decides to paint her current guy black, dump him and perhaps paint you white again.



2. Things went to ___, and then she broke up with you, or you broke up with her.

You are single, she is single.

We never broke up, just dissolved. No closure. She had been with that other guy for 6 weeks when I stopped contacting her

From this guy's point of view, you are his girlfriend's crazy ex, because she probably tells him horrible stories about what you did... .true or not, most likely not.

Not a snowball"s chance in hell that she even mentions me. I was far from crazy and she avoids discussing anything like this

I'm sure she was involved with a guy before you. How would you have felt if she started reconnecting with her ex while you were with her? She did
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2014, 05:09:32 AM »

I actually sense a lot of hostility in the responses because people can't just answer it. 

What were your impressions with my response.  I sensed the frustration so I tried to "just answer it"
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2014, 09:31:41 AM »

I actually sense a lot of hostility in the responses because people can't just answer it. 

What were your impressions with my response.  I sensed the frustration so I tried to "just answer it"

Thanks for the response formflier. I like your approach. It seems natural however I've been warned about saying that i miss her. I don't want to seem needy. I would rather go in and grab coffee or a drink and catch up.
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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2014, 09:53:56 AM »

ok, so you call her up and say you miss her and want to resume the relationship. If she says yes, you go for it and be prepared for a rollercoaster ride. If she says she is still hanging with the replacement, you move on and take the time necessary to find a woman you will enjoy being with.
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2014, 10:26:03 AM »

We never broke up, just dissolved. No closure. She had been with that other guy for 6 weeks when I stopped contacting her

From my perspective... .she ended it.

She did it in a really really crappy way and didn't give you any closure.   That part really sucks.

If you don't believe she ended it... .then you have to believe that she spent six weeks cheating on you.   That's no better.

Excerpt
I'm sure she was involved with a guy before you. How would you have felt if she started reconnecting with her ex while you were with her? She did

Well then my question isn't hypothetical after all... .

How did YOU feel when she did?
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« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2014, 01:21:10 PM »

I actually sense a lot of hostility in the responses because people can't just answer it. 

What were your impressions with my response.  I sensed the frustration so I tried to "just answer it"

Thanks for the response formflier. I like your approach. It seems natural however I've been warned about saying that i miss her. I don't want to seem needy. I would rather go in and grab coffee or a drink and catch up.

My suggestion is to actually be straight up... and tell her you miss her.  That you want to resume.  I would not hold anything back.

She may get the impression you "just want coffee... ."

Then after a couple of weeks of "just coffee... ."... .and you up your game... .she punts because "she had no idea... " what you wanted.

I'm trying to spare that possible "wasted time".


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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2014, 04:12:40 PM »

I'm conflicted on #2 -  Emotional sounding board seems a lot like "We women often complain that men don't listen to us. It's intoxicating when a man seems fascinated by what we're saying (and very rare)--so listen up guys!" from CatFamiliar. Can't really have it both ways

I can understand how that sounds confusing that I'm advising you to listen carefully to a woman but not be her "emotional sounding board." I guess it depends upon how you define "emotional sounding board."

If we disclose too much to you, then we've lost our mystery and then you're not "dating material," rather you've become our "best friends" and we'll ask your advice on  the guys we really want to date.

It's a fine line and I've seen so many guys think they're getting close to a woman, (and they are), but they're completely unaware that they've been categorized in a way that they'll never have a chance for a romantic relationship with her. There are exceptions to this rule, but it's something to be cautious about.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2014, 11:34:33 PM »

I'm conflicted on #2 -  Emotional sounding board seems a lot like "We women often complain that men don't listen to us. It's intoxicating when a man seems fascinated by what we're saying (and very rare)--so listen up guys!" from CatFamiliar. Can't really have it both ways

I can understand how that sounds confusing that I'm advising you to listen carefully to a woman but not be her "emotional sounding board." I guess it depends upon how you define "emotional sounding board."

If we disclose too much to you, then we've lost our mystery and then you're not "dating material," rather you've become our "best friends" and we'll ask your advice on  the guys we really want to date.

It's a fine line and I've seen so many guys think they're getting close to a woman, (and they are), but they're completely unaware that they've been categorized in a way that they'll never have a chance for a romantic relationship with her. There are exceptions to this rule, but it's something to be cautious about.

Okay, fair enough. But what I really don't understand is that if a woman wants a man to listen. He needs to be able to listen to any of her emotional issues and be there to support her.  That's really one of the cornerstones of a good relationship. I was amazing to this woman, she never talked about stuff that sounded like friend zone stuff, but at the end of the dayI wasn't good enough for herand she felt that she had to move on.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2014, 08:17:06 AM »

I was amazing to this woman, she never talked about stuff that sounded like friend zone stuff, but at the end of the dayI wasn't good enough for herand she felt that she had to move on.

"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, (you just might find!  Yea!), you get what you need!... "



Craydar, to me, this seems like an awful lot of focus on her still, her motivations, her reasoning behind it, through your lens.

I'm sure she was involved with a guy before you. How would you have felt if she started reconnecting with her ex while you were with her? She did

And you want to get back together with a woman who left you for her ex, because... .?

It's not because you weren't good enough for her.  Unless that's your motivation?



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