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Author Topic: pwBPD as children  (Read 610 times)
ColdEthyl
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« on: December 09, 2014, 12:38:47 PM »

I'm curious if anyone wants to talk about this. I know some folks here might have children w/ BPD, or their kids are showing signs.

My dBPDh's mother informed me a little bit about what he was like as a child, even at 6 he obviously was highly intelligent, and had an almost eidetic memory. Also, she said he used to lie quite a bit about things that were unnecessary,  such as telling people he was Catholic, and he never was. She's aware he does that now also, but just doesn't call him on it.

My dBPDh was also sexually abused as a child, and felt like he was 'forgotten' in favor of his older sister and younger brother. (so we got a middle kid here too) I wonder if he was already NPD, and it morphed into BPD, or what happened. Anyone have any thoughts, or care to share any stories of their pwBPD as children?

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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2014, 12:47:28 PM »

Keeping this about her and not the abuse she experienced, here is what I know about her before she turned 16:

1) At one point she decided to change her name because she didn't like hers and would lie about other details about herself.

2) At one point decided to paint all the walls in her room black.

3) Said she was depressed as long as she can remember.

4) Started cutting herself about age 9-10

5) First got drunk before age 10, a hardcore drug user at age 14

6) used to hit, bite, and scream at her father.

7) In therapy before the age of 10.

8) First major hospitalization at age 15-16, lasting a few months.

9) Parents called the police on her multiple times.

10) Once jumped out of the car while her dad was driving.

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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2014, 01:00:36 PM »

My uBPDbf had a tumultuous childhood.  He was raised in Mormon family with two other siblings.  His father started showing signs of mental illness. The father started having frequent hallucinations and violent outbursts.  As a result of his behavior, the father started to isolate himself in his bedroom.  :)uring the onset of the father's mental illness, the mother was pregnant and focused all of her attention on the father. The mother was co-dependent and started becoming physically sick, subsequently after the onset of the father's mental illness. The father started physically and verbally abusing the siblings.  My bf essentially got the brunt of the abuse.  As a result of the abuse, my bf started acting out quite a bit.  

While coping with the father, the mother did not focus on the origin of my bf's behavior.  The mother took him to psychologists/psychiatrists, who suggested medication.  My bf was on approximately 20 psychiatric  medications when he was in his early teens.  While on the excessive amount of medicine, my bf had a moment of rage and suicidal fixation.  To cope with his outburst, the entire family pinned his arms down while he was having a tantrum.  The mother called up someone from their church to perform a type of exorcist. After that he was placed in a psychiatric facility. The mother works as a RN for a juvenile psychiatric facility.  

After he was released, the parents let my bf leave school.  They enabled all of his maladaptive behaviors there after. They coddled him every time he had something difficult happen to him, because of their guilt for placing him in a psychiatric facility.   As a result, my bf spent the majority of the time isolating himself in his room.  He did not socialize with anyone other then his family and barely worked.  

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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2014, 01:23:43 PM »

Hmmm... .interesting. My husband's father was an alcoholic. My hubs plays it down (he says his dad came home drunk 1-2 times a year, but on several occasions when he has talked about it, he would say he could tell if his dad was going to come in happy or mad based on if he was whistling, and how long it took him to close the car door... .which to me sounds like he experienced this behavior more than once or twice a year), but his mom told me. I think he plays it down because he's a drinker, too. I wouldn't say his father is BPD, but I think he's got some issues. He's stubborn, quick to anger. He started seeing things... .paranoia. He's in a nursing home for the past year, and he has fought staff, and recently tried to "run away" from there because his roommate is in the hospital from pneumonia and he didn't want to be there anymore. Any sort of change throws that man off. He's demanding and manipulative.

My husband has spent some time in jail (a few days) for domestic violence, several days in a mental facility for attempted suicide, dropped out of school at 15, ran away, lived on his own since then. His life has just been chaos.

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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 01:46:20 PM »

ColdEthyl,there seems to be a lot of similarities between your husband and my bf's childhood. It really is almost a "perfect storm" of risk factors for the onset of BPD.  It is really sad, it is almost like he was bound to have mental illness because of the  biological and environmental factors. 
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 02:21:35 PM »

ColdEthyl,there seems to be a lot of similarities between your husband and my bf's childhood. It really is almost a "perfect storm" of risk factors for the onset of BPD.  It is really sad, it is almost like he was bound to have mental illness because of the  biological and environmental factors. 

Yeah that's what I was wondering when I made this post. From talking to his mom the other day, it almost seems like it was already there as a kid, but it got a kick in the rear form the trauma/abuse he suffered.
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 02:23:17 PM »

Keeping this about her and not the abuse she experienced, here is what I know about her before she turned 16:

1) At one point she decided to change her name because she didn't like hers and would lie about other details about herself.

2) At one point decided to paint all the walls in her room black.

3) Said she was depressed as long as she can remember.

4) Started cutting herself about age 9-10

5) First got drunk before age 10, a hardcore drug user at age 14

6) used to hit, bite, and scream at her father.

7) In therapy before the age of 10.

8) First major hospitalization at age 15-16, lasting a few months.

9) Parents called the police on her multiple times.

10) Once jumped out of the car while her dad was driving.

Was all of this before or after the abuse? I ask because I know my husband's timeline, and it seems like there may have already been some indicators there before the abuse started.
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 02:42:56 PM »

Keeping this about her and not the abuse she experienced, here is what I know about her before she turned 16:

1) At one point she decided to change her name because she didn't like hers and would lie about other details about herself.

2) At one point decided to paint all the walls in her room black.

3) Said she was depressed as long as she can remember.

4) Started cutting herself about age 9-10

5) First got drunk before age 10, a hardcore drug user at age 14

6) used to hit, bite, and scream at her father.

7) In therapy before the age of 10.

8) First major hospitalization at age 15-16, lasting a few months.

9) Parents called the police on her multiple times.

10) Once jumped out of the car while her dad was driving.

Was all of this before or after the abuse? I ask because I know my husband's timeline, and it seems like there may have already been some indicators there before the abuse started.

After.  Mom was also diagnosed BPD, abused the hell out of her dad, parents divorced when she was young, mom got custody of the children (as was pretty much routine in the late 1970s), mom continued her abuse until she went to jail.  The outbursts started when she went back to live with her dad.  She claims her dad was abusive, too, but I wonder how much of what she considers "abuse" was really just him trying to control an unruly child or enforce his own boundaries.
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 02:48:40 PM »

After.  Mom was also diagnosed BPD, abused the hell out of her dad, parents divorced when she was young, mom got custody of the children (as was pretty much routine in the late 1970s), mom continued her abuse until she went to jail.  The outbursts started when she went back to live with her dad.  She claims her dad was abusive, too, but I wonder how much of what she considers "abuse" was really just him trying to control an unruly child or enforce his own boundaries.

Hmmm, I've seen a bit of that, too. Some of the things he calls abuse I can tell are slightly exaggerated and not necessarily abuse, rather his interpretation of events.

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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 03:04:17 PM »

ColdEthyl,there seems to be a lot of similarities between your husband and my bf's childhood. It really is almost a "perfect storm" of risk factors for the onset of BPD.  It is really sad, it is almost like he was bound to have mental illness because of the  biological and environmental factors. 

Yeah that's what I was wondering when I made this post. From talking to his mom the other day, it almost seems like it was already there as a kid, but it got a kick in the rear form the trauma/abuse he suffered.

There is a high risk of heritability for many of the traits, especially impulsivity.  What you described is one of the theories for the etiology of BPD; biosocial model.  Genetics and abnormalities of brain systems, like the prefrontal cortex and amygdala (both affect emotional regulation)  interacting with social risk factors, like invalidating environments and abuse.  Both biological and environmental factors interplay and can either moderate or exacerbate the risk for BPD.
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 03:31:01 PM »

After.  Mom was also diagnosed BPD, abused the hell out of her dad, parents divorced when she was young, mom got custody of the children (as was pretty much routine in the late 1970s), mom continued her abuse until she went to jail.  The outbursts started when she went back to live with her dad.  She claims her dad was abusive, too, but I wonder how much of what she considers "abuse" was really just him trying to control an unruly child or enforce his own boundaries.

Hmmm, I've seen a bit of that, too. Some of the things he calls abuse I can tell are slightly exaggerated and not necessarily abuse, rather his interpretation of events.

Well, remember the pwBPD has a different reality based on feelings and not facts.  There is no doubt her dad has a short fuse.  There is no doubt he is invalidating (why cant' you get your cr@p together, etc).  But abusive?  From what I have witnessed his "abuse" is often just a "JADE".  Yes, he can be a jerk.  Yes, he can be insensitive.  But I don't see the "evil monster" she claims him to be.  Her mom, however, was clearly abusive.  

I also wonder about much of the later trauma and abuse from boyfriends, etc.  How much were they really the evil people she claimed, and how much were simply people reacting to her behavior through JADE or trying to enforce boundaries.

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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 03:40:22 PM »

My exwife had a long history of having been "wronged"... .or at least that's how she sees it. They way she has described it seems she was very sensetive and had a hard time forgiving and forgetting at a very early age.

She thought of herself as abused/bullied by a teacher at the age of ten, but the bullying seems to have consisted solely of the teaching favouring other children over her. She still holds grudge towards her parents for "not standing up" against the teacher, which she thinks should have been fired. She seems to have been incredibly occupied by this for a couple of years at age 10-12.

She was also a bit too upset, even as grown up, for having been called names in the schoolyard at an even earlier age (age 7-8), even though the name-calling was temporary and she even became friends with her "bullies" a year or two later.

She also told me that she never went away on activities that could include staying the night, and the reason was that she was afraid she'd get in a fight with somebody and then having "no way out". She was afraid of her own feelings and knew about her lack up impulse control even then.

Childhood friends of my wife give a different view. They tell me she was controlling and anxious, often resulting in conflicts she could not handle.

Her father has more or less the same story of his life and his childhood in the 40s/50s. Out of control of his own emotions. His self biography (like his daughter's) is full of alibis and re-writes. He sees himself as a rebel ("Noone tells me what to do", but the truth is he's just dead afraid to get close to anyone because he'll feel invaded/overwhelmed and ___ things up once again.
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ColdEthyl
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 03:48:50 PM »

My exwife had a long history of having been "wronged"... .or at least that's how she sees it. They way she has described it seems she was very sensetive and had a hard time forgiving and forgetting at a very early age.

She thought of herself as abused/bullied by a teacher at the age of ten, but the bullying seems to have consisted solely of the teaching favouring other children over her. She still holds grudge towards her parents for "not standing up" against the teacher, which she thinks should have been fired. She seems to have been incredibly occupied by this for a couple of years at age 10-12.

She was also a bit too upset, even as grown up, for having been called names in the schoolyard at an even earlier age (age 7-8), even though the name-calling was temporary and she even became friends with her "bullies" a year or two later.

She also told me that she never went away on activities that could include staying the night, and the reason was that she was afraid she'd get in a fight with somebody and then having "no way out". She was afraid of her own feelings and knew about her lack up impulse control even then.

Childhood friends of my wife give a different view. They tell me she was controlling and anxious, often resulting in conflicts she could not handle.

Her father has more or less the same story of his life and his childhood in the 40s/50s. Out of control of his own emotions. His self biography (like his daughter's) is full of alibis and re-writes. He sees himself as a rebel ("Noone tells me what to do", but the truth is he's just dead afraid to get close to anyone because he'll feel invaded/overwhelmed and ___ things up once again.

I'm interested in this, too. My husband is also 'writing'. I say it like that because he's been at this for 6 years, and I haven't seen a word. He doesn't want me to read it until he's finished, but he does tell me the story about what he's writing.

My husband has that "No one tell me what to do" thing as well, which is why i don't try to "push" him into things. It's an exercise in futility.
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 04:29:32 PM »

Ethyl, my husband also has a sense that he was "forgotten" by his family. Actually as a teen who graduated from prep school at the top of his class, he was told that he was "no longer welcome" in the family and when he was putting himself through Yale with no financial help from them (and they could easily afford it), they moved overseas and didn't tell him until later. His father was a classic narcissist and was angry and abusive toward him and his mother was a milquetoast and didn't protect him. Now his parents are dead and he feels like he's "not part of the family" with his two sisters who live across the country.

My uBPDbf had a tumultuous childhood... .His father started showing signs of mental illness The father started physically and verbally abusing the siblings... .(he) essentially got the brunt of the abuse.  As a result of the abuse, my bf started acting out quite a bit... .To cope with his outburst, the entire family pinned his arms down while he was having a tantrum.

EaglesJuju, I excerpted a few details from your account above and this is exactly what happened with my husband. His father moved the family constantly across continents for his work, so my husband had a very unstable childhood. He told me of a tantrum he had as an adolescent that necessitated several people to hold him down.

She claims her dad was abusive, too, but I wonder how much of what she considers "abuse" was really just him trying to control an unruly child or enforce his own boundaries.

Max, this is something I wonder about too. I've spoken to my husband's sisters and they agree that he got the brunt of the abuse. I met his dad shortly before he died and he was a piece of work, a genuinely nasty human being who was very unkind to his son in my presence (as his bride-to-be).

However, having seen how sensitive my husband is, I wonder how much of what he perceived as "abuse" was merely "child discipline."

Hmmm, I've seen a bit of that, too. Some of the things he calls abuse I can tell are slightly exaggerated and not necessarily abuse, rather his interpretation of events.

Well, remember the pwBPD has a different reality based on feelings and not facts.  There is no doubt her dad has a short fuse.  There is no doubt he is invalidating (why cant' you get your cr@p together, etc).  But abusive?  From what I have witnessed his "abuse" is often just a "JADE".  Yes, he can be a jerk.  Yes, he can be insensitive.  But I don't see the "evil monster" she claims him to be.  Her mom, however, was clearly abusive. 

I also wonder about much of the later trauma and abuse from boyfriends, etc.  How much were they really the evil people she claimed, and how much were simply people reacting to her behavior through JADE or trying to enforce boundaries.

My exwife had a long history of having been "wronged"... .or at least that's how she sees it. They way she has described it seems she was very sensetive and had a hard time forgiving and forgetting at a very early age.

She thought of herself as abused/bullied by a teacher at the age of ten, but the bullying seems to have consisted solely of the teaching favouring other children over her. She still holds grudge towards her parents for "not standing up" against the teacher, which she thinks should have been fired. She seems to have been incredibly occupied by this for a couple of years at age 10-12.

She was also a bit too upset, even as grown up, for having been called names in the schoolyard at an even earlier age (age 7-8), even though the name-calling was temporary and she even became friends with her "bullies" a year or two later.

She also told me that she never went away on activities that could include staying the night, and the reason was that she was afraid she'd get in a fight with somebody and then having "no way out". She was afraid of her own feelings and knew about her lack up impulse control even then.

Childhood friends of my wife give a different view. They tell me she was controlling and anxious, often resulting in conflicts she could not handle.

Her father has more or less the same story of his life and his childhood in the 40s/50s. Out of control of his own emotions. His self biography (like his daughter's) is full of alibis and re-writes. He sees himself as a rebel ("Noone tells me what to do", but the truth is he's just dead afraid to get close to anyone because he'll feel invaded/overwhelmed and ___ things up once again.

It's interesting that so many of us are wondering how much abuse our loved ones really suffered and how much they imagined that they were being abused. I've been in the same room with my husband when he has felt slighted by his sisters and I didn't have a clue about what he experienced until he told me later. Even then, it didn't seem like such a big deal, but of course I don't have the family history he shares with them.

But the theme is that there is this narcissistic wound that seems to be a common element in which these pwBPD are so sensitive (and important) that comments that wouldn't register as an insult to many of us, wound them like a sharp knife.
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 04:58:56 PM »

I don't like to call someone "too sensitive".  But clearly the pwBPD in our lives are sensitive to things that we are not.  I experience the same thing - where my wife will be up in arms about something someone said to her (or didn't say) and it either completely passed me by, I had a different interpretation, or it was one of those everyday things that most people don't get worked up over. 

Last night I was having what I felt was a rather constructive conversation about her friend whom she has recently painted black.  She was mostly venting about this friend, and I was trying to turn her vents into constructive discussion.  Our discussion felt open and I felt progressing in a good direction.  She mentioned her friend's hatred of men and how she doesn't trust or like any man because she was molested as a girl.  I mentioned that her friend's feelings are her feelings and not invalid, but I asked whether her friend was comfortable with having that hatred or if that was something she recognized and wanted to change.  I then mentioned how this friend is also often complaining about boyfriends treating her badly, and I suggested that if she holds this hatred for men, then her trying to date men could be part of the reason her relationships fail, and it's unfair to the men she dates for her to carry that hatred and still try and date, that she should solve her issues with men first.  Of course, that comment set off a firestorm, with her claiming I don't understand women's needs, and that it is impossible for a man to be raped and that men are more often the aggressors.    How we got from A to B on that one certainly eludes me. 

   
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2014, 05:03:55 PM »

@CatFamiliar

Exactly! What I'm trying to get at is what was first... .the chicken or the egg here. Was it abuse, or just their feelings of perceived abuse that 'triggered' the BPD?

Clearly, it seems to be a mixture of the two. My husband was most definitely sexually abused, I have no doubt about that. Some of the stories about his dad I do believe as well, based on his mother's accounts. But, I'm not quite sure he was as "forgotten" as he recalls, but I can understand feeling that way if you are being abused outside the home and no one knows about it. They would be just going on with their lives... .not knowing what he was enduring.

The horrible thing about the sexual abuse for him is everything is hyper-sexualized in his mind's eye. He's so overprotective of my children, he thinks Captain Underpants books are inappropriate because on the cover he just has underwear on and a towel for a cape. It's hard to balance when I don't want to invalidate him, but everyone and everything is a potential "creeper" or "predator" to him.

You are so so right about the narcissus bit, too.

@max

Yep, I've experienced the 'jumbled thoughts' as well.
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2014, 05:08:28 PM »

Mine told me early on that her mom used to call her a word in Spanish that mean like a little kid stamping its feet. I said, "intransigent?" She said something like that. She also said that she had anger issues for as long as she could remember. Growing up in a violent household, she was often told how to feel (invalidated), and she and her two eldest siblings all show signs of BPD, her older brother the worst. His has affected him enough that he's kind of estranged from the other siblings, even though he still lives in the same house. My Ex used to even comment about his depression, self-sabotage, anger, and love addictions.

I noticed right away that she was overly sensitive to smells and sensations, which I think is an inborn bio-genetic trait that perhaps he inherited from his mother. I've noticed this with our son (S4), starting when he was just about 2. D2.5 isn't like this. S4 is easily upset by things, especially when things are out of order, such that he might have some light autistic traits. Of course, I'm trying to on point with this.

Then again, I was a day dreamer, so who knows? I never remember being unaware of things, though, and I never took forever to do simple things like getting dressed. S4 is obviously less emotionally resilient than his little sister.
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2014, 05:13:51 PM »

Mine told me early on that her mom used to call her a word in Spanish that mean like a little kid stamping its feet. I said, "intransigent?" She said something like that. She also said that she had anger issues for as long as she could remember. Growing up in a violent household, she was often told how to feel (invalidated), and she and her two eldest siblings all show signs of BPD, her older brother the worst.

I noticed right away that she was overly sensitive to smells and sensations, which I think is an inborn bio-genetic trait that perhaps he inherited from his mother. I've noticed this with our son (S4), starting when he was just about 2. D2.5 isn't like this. S4 is easily upset by things, especially when things are out of order, such that he might have some light autistic traits. Of course, I'm trying to on point with this.

Then again, I was a day dreamer, so who knows? I never remember being unaware of things, though, and I never took forever to do simple things like getting dressed. S4 is obviously less emotionally resilient than his little sister.

I said the exact same thing just yesterday. My S10 is Asperger's, and some things ARE similar, like being higher than average IQ, but he cannot process social situations, sarcasm, social 'rules', etc he just doesn't get it. He also is highly competitive, and quick to anger if he's losing in a board game, video game, etc.

My dBPDh is sensitive to sound/smells too. I thought he was BSing me at first, but he swears he can smell mold on clothes that have "sat in the washer too long". He must not have been lying, because when he claimed it, those were times that item of clothes might have been in the washer for a couple of hours or so before it got moved to the dryer. He cannot stand the smell of bleach either.


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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2014, 05:28:21 PM »

Interesting discussion on "smells".  My wife can certainly "smell" things that I can't.  But then again, there are things that I would expect her to smell but she never brings up.  Hmm.  The things that she smells that I don't smell are - the cat box, something burning, something rotting.  In other words, something she can blame me for (burning foot, not cleaning the cat box, etc).  That makes me wonder if some of her sensitive smell is in her head, in that she is already stewing about the chores she thinks I am not doing, and the smell is the "evidence" that I am not getting it done. 

BTW, the smell she can't stand is vinegar Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2014, 06:35:22 PM »

I'm more sensitive to smells than my husband, but he has some intense food hatreds: cucumbers, cilantro, green beans, jicama, and a variety of other veggies. Many of these hatreds stemmed from an unpleasant incident and from that point on, he couldn't stand that food. Some of these incidents were even as a young adult.

I can't remember where I read this, but I remember hearing that women have more olfactory sensitivity than men. I'll have to Google that... .

Yep, it's true: www.techtimes.com/articles/19704/20141107/women-possess-superior-sense-of-smell-more-olfactory-cells-than-men.htm
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2014, 06:54:33 PM »

I think it's an interesting subject.

My partner is saying to me that my childhood was not good and 'that explains'. Divorced  mom who is an artist and believes in God - that can only be of bad influence. Well, I think I had a lot of space and meanwhile I was safe and happy. While... .

He grew up in well off expat family, was taken care of by a nanny. He idolizes his father who - this is my interpretation - was a very hard man (and deeply traumatized by war in his childhood). His mother got schizofrenia and his younger brother was born when he was 10 and soon after they moved (back) to Europe. He often had to take responsibility for his brother because their mother was ill (quite stories there) and father was travelling a lot (and as far as I understand, was drinking, had relationships). Parents divorced, father moved to the other side of the world with a new woman, and died in an accident when my SO was 19-20.

But what he was like as child? I have seen a picture of him in the age of 3 and his facial expression exactly like nowadays when he is in agony! ( that picture gave me creeps). He told me he had a puppy love for 7 years, and in the age of 20 he was already married to another woman... .and then other mariage and relationships followed. He started working when he was 17, didn't study. He is very sociable, handsome and hard working (when he wants to) and always managed to find jobs... .

His early childhoold is somehow a reference to him, what life should be like: always sunny and someone taking care of him.

(i realize my childhood is also reference to me: I was always drawing and playing and taking care of animals, and there was a lot of storytelling and joking)

It's amazing we ever met... .

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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2014, 07:22:16 PM »

My husband grew up in a very strict Catholic family. He went to private schools his whole life and was a monk for a while in his early 20's. He played football and some other sports. From the outside, it was the perfect little family living in a small town in middle America. But, I do know that his mother is very critical. I lived with her for 4 months and she nitpicks to death. One day she is telling me to dress warmer and the next day she is telling me that I am not dressed warm enough. No matter what you did for that woman it seemed that it wasn't right. After we lived with her, my oldest daughter started being freakish about being clean because my MIL would go around the house spraying Lysol on everything because she was afraid of germs being spread. If I had to grow up in a house like that, I think I would be a bit off kilter as well. My house growing up was no picnic but I had my ways of getting what I wanted and needed. His only choice was to fall in line and conform or be cast out completely.

And there were also a lot of mixed messages that he received growing up. The guilt around sexuality was horrendous yet he found his dad's stash of girly magazines around the time he hit puberty. The confusion of hearing that certain things are mortal sins and need to be confessed mixed with knowing that his dad had a secret stash of stuff really confused him.

His mom talks about how he cried a lot as a baby. There was an article that I read somewhere on this site that said sometimes a mismatch between the child and caregiver can cause lots of problems for a child. Even if a parent isn't outright abusive, if there is a mismatch between the type of care being given and the type of care needed by the child, then that could cause a child to experience trauma and have problems.
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2014, 10:14:54 PM »



I do know that his mother is very critical. I lived with her for 4 months and she nitpicks to death... .No matter what you did for that woman it seemed that it wasn't right... .If I had to grow up in a house like that, I think I would be a bit off kilter as well... .His only choice was to fall in line and conform or be cast out completely... .There was an article that I read somewhere on this site that said sometimes a mismatch between the child and caregiver can cause lots of problems for a child. Even if a parent isn't outright abusive, if there is a mismatch between the type of care being given and the type of care needed by the child, then that could cause a child to experience trauma and have problems.

My T said that neither my husband nor I received the nurturance we needed as children. We both had very critical parents. He became BPD, while I'm somewhat OCD.
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« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2014, 10:01:38 AM »

Wow... .so interesting to see where everyone kind of started at. I can see certain patterns our loved ones experienced, but it also seems like there might have already been some issues there. It's interesting to me how people can go through the same thing, but turn out differently. I was sexually abused myself, but unlike my husband, it didn't develop BPD. I DO have some issues with anxiety, a tad bit of paranoia, low self esteem, addictions, blah blah blah. However, with mental illness in my family tree, there's really no way to tell for certain which came first in my case, either.

It seems like there's a perfect storm recipe in there somewhere.
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« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2014, 10:39:07 AM »

Perfect storm... .When I read the hypotheses about how BPD develops, I sometimes wonder if the psychologists coming up with those hypotheses are former doctors of my wife  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Genetics?  Check.  Many suicides in her family tree.  Mother diagnosed with BPD.

Abuse?  Check.  Sounds like from birth onward. 

Followed by an invalidating environment?  Check.  Cant say whether her father was abusive, but I can say he was definitely invalidating. 

So, she was born with certain genetics.  Then she was abused and raised in her mom's delusional world of abuse.  Then she was moved to her fathers house, where he took the attitude, "you aren't with your mother any more, so why are you still angry?"  And those events seemed to occur exactly at the times psychologists claim are most damaging.  Abuse from her mother at the time she is supposed to be bonding with her mother.  Invalidation at the time when she is supposed to be developing her identity and sense of self. 

When I read books about BPD, the descriptions fit her to a tee.  I mean every single "typical" BPD behavior, she has.  All 9 of the DSM criteria many times over.  I think that is partly why I have been sticking with this relationship when my logic says I should probably have run away - that there is a description, a diagnosis that she accepts, and a desire for something different.  Somehow this makes it easier for me to accept she is who she is for reasons beyond her control.
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« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2014, 11:46:02 AM »

Perfect storm... .When I read the hypotheses about how BPD develops, I sometimes wonder if the psychologists coming up with those hypotheses are former doctors of my wife  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Genetics?  Check.  Many suicides in her family tree.  Mother diagnosed with BPD.

Abuse?  Check.  Sounds like from birth onward. 

Followed by an invalidating environment?  Check.  Cant say whether her father was abusive, but I can say he was definitely invalidating. 

So, she was born with certain genetics.  Then she was abused and raised in her mom's delusional world of abuse.  Then she was moved to her fathers house, where he took the attitude, "you aren't with your mother any more, so why are you still angry?"  And those events seemed to occur exactly at the times psychologists claim are most damaging.  Abuse from her mother at the time she is supposed to be bonding with her mother.  Invalidation at the time when she is supposed to be developing her identity and sense of self. 

When I read books about BPD, the descriptions fit her to a tee.  I mean every single "typical" BPD behavior, she has.  All 9 of the DSM criteria many times over.  I think that is partly why I have been sticking with this relationship when my logic says I should probably have run away - that there is a description, a diagnosis that she accepts, and a desire for something different.  Somehow this makes it easier for me to accept she is who she is for reasons beyond her control.

*Nods* It makes it easier for me as well, Max to learn and understand the hows and whys. I can forgive him easier, and not take things personal since I can now UNDERSTAND what has happened. I still put boundaries into place, we still talk and work together to improve, but at least when he "falls off the wagon", which he will... .I can keep my mind straight and not fall into JADEing or letting the frustration control what I do in response.

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« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2014, 08:45:14 PM »

My wife is higher functioning than many here.

She was the youngest child in a Catholic family. By the time she came along, her mother was pretty tired of doing 'mom' things, but her siblings took care of her, and fairly early her father shifted to a lower-pressure career and picked up a lot of that slack.

Her mother was an alcoholic, and often mean, and raged horribly.

She describes how at 17 or 18 she discovered that throwing tantrums didn't work very well with her friends (Apparently they still worked for her in her FOO), and made some big changes for the better.
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« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2014, 02:09:15 AM »

My MIL said her daughter was always different even as a baby. She was a crying baby all the time. As a kid she was sly, withdrawn and would lie.

I believe that some people are on a knife edge for PDs due to genetics and it takes a trigger at a key stage to set them off. Others I believe are born with it due to genetics. Others I believe can become it due to enviroment and the brain rewiring itself to cope.
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