Christmas Gift

[Depression = 72% of members]

I know what I am getting my husband for Christmas... .There has been so many times that my husband has called me and told me that he got into an altercation with someone while driving. Swearing to me that he did nothing wrong, didn't provoke it and actually stayed calm during the whole thing. He did some damage to our car the last time this happened by hitting a curb, stating the person was trying to run him off the road. Now seriously, nothing like this has ever happened to me and it always seems to happen to him. Do I believe he did nothing wrong? Well no, but I would like to believe it. So I am going to buy him a Dash cam, he has been stuck on recording everything to prove his innocence these days. I am hoping that by having this in the car he will not provoke but just be happy that the other idiots on the road are being recorded. He called me today and said a guy with no tags was trying to run him off the road and actually got out of his car to attack him. My husband said he stayed calm, he was on a Valium and has a lot to lose if he has contact with the police so I actually do believe him this time. But it still boggles my mind.

Does your loved one seem to attract the crazies? I have been in the car with him and have had people literally cut us off and slam on their brakes for no reason. Which sends him into a road rage maniac. But people don't do this to me while I am driving, what is the deal with that?

[Cloudy Days]

I know what I am getting my husband for Christmas... .There has been so many times that my husband has called me and told me that he got into an altercation with someone while driving. Swearing to me that he did nothing wrong, didn't provoke it and actually stayed calm during the whole thing. He did some damage to our car the last time this happened by hitting a curb, stating the person was trying to run him off the road. Now seriously, nothing like this has ever happened to me and it always seems to happen to him. Do I believe he did nothing wrong? Well no, but I would like to believe it. So I am going to buy him a Dash cam, he has been stuck on recording everything to prove his innocence these days. I am hoping that by having this in the car he will not provoke but just be happy that the other idiots on the road are being recorded. He called me today and said a guy with no tags was trying to run him off the road and actually got out of his car to attack him. My husband said he stayed calm, he was on a Valium and has a lot to lose if he has contact with the police so I actually do believe him this time. But it still boggles my mind.

Does your loved one seem to attract the crazies? I have been in the car with him and have had people literally cut us off and slam on their brakes for no reason. Which sends him into a road rage maniac. But people don't do this to me while I am driving, what is the deal with that?

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[maxsterling]

Well, some people do attract the crazies on the road.  My wife actually thinks I do because I seem to have problems with people trying to pass me on the right when I am making a right turn into my driveway.  She claims it is because I don't signal early enough, brake before I put on my signal, or don't position my car far enough to the right before I make the turn.  (there is no other lane to the right, just the shoulder, and these people are passing on the shoulder - an illegal move - so I don't see why I should have to pull over into the shoulder to make a right turn.)  Anyway, this really frustrates me that so many other drivers would be so careless, yet my wife wants to at least partially blame my driving.  And then one day, it happened to her! 

With that said, it's possible that your husband has driving habits that while perfectly legal, tend to make other drivers mad at him.  And it's also possible that your husband has a short fuse and is blowing these issues out of proportion.  So in his universe, being cut off (happens to most drivers every day) is a personal attack against him.  I know this happens with my wife, not so much with driving, but in life in general. Someone else will do or say something that in most accounts is run-of-the-mill, and she will take it as if the other person is being intentionally malicious and out to get her. 

[Cloudy Days]

Very true, however this man supposedly got out of his car and charged at my husband who stayed in his car, obviously at some point it became a personal attack. Just not sure what part he played in it. He claims he did absolutely nothing, even if he was being an aggressive driver.

On a side note my husband won't let me drive because he thinks I am a terrible driver, but will totally back me up if someone cuts me off. So your story made me thankful... .

[Grey Kitty]

Max, perhaps it is safer to pull onto the shoulder earlier on the approach to your driveway. Defensive driving is often about NOT asserting your rights.

Cloudy Days, I think that gift sounds excellent, as it will help him deal with his feeling of being persecuted by people on the road... .and show that you hear him

... .but there is a TRAP hidden in it that I hope you can avoid!

He claims he did absolutely nothing, even if he was being an aggressive driver.

Don't look for things to show that he is an aggressive driver or anything to critique about his driving from the recordings! That would be giving him the Christmas gift of invalidation!

[maxsterling]

Max, perhaps it is safer to pull onto the shoulder earlier on the approach to your driveway. Defensive driving is often about NOT asserting your rights.

I may have to start doing that but 1) the shoulder is actually the bike lane, which is illegal to drive in and 2) it creates additional hazards for bicyclists or pedestrians.  For now, I just have to chalk it up to "frustrating" and pay attention to those behind me who are tailgating and likely to pull that maneuver. 

[ColdEthyl]

I hate driving with my husband because it just rattles his nerves, and everyone on the street is an @sshole. He criticizes my driving, too. He says I hit the brakes too hard, and don't slow down fast enough. I accelerate too fast. I don't know how to just pick a spot in the parking lot and go there. blahblahblah

Oh, and we ALWAYS need to new wiper blades. Doesn't matter if I bought new ones a month ago nope... .need new ones. The windows are too dirty! How can I see through this! Kids put their fingers on the back windows again, now it's smudgy and he can't see.

I am so thankful I get to go to work everyday by myself.

[sweetheart]

Just had to add my experience as this really struck a nerve. My h doesn't drive ( thank god!), but as a passenger he is a waking nightmare, critical, aggressive, nervous, paranoid and so on. I try really hard to avoid long car journeys with him. Everyone who is driving any kind of vehicle on any given day is his enemy, but then so are pedestrians, cyclists, insects and any manner of inanimate objects!   

Cloudy Days great gift 

[formflier]

Stand by for the mother of all thread hijacks... and another good formflier story.  I'll pause to let anyone that wants go get some popcorn and a soda... .no... logicman (the superhero) is not coming back... .this is real life... .about formflier... .the steely eyed naval aviator instructor pilot that stayed calm and saved his wife one day... .unfortunately... .all is true.

Backstory... so... .as a Naval Aviator... .I have pretty strong opinions about how to safely operate equipment (more than just airplanes)... .I also like to focus on how "best" to operate them.

This gets interesting when you have a wife with BPD traits... that is a bit of an erratic driver.  "procedure"... .is not in her language.

For a while... .we lived way up north... .and it was common to drive on snowy roads.  So... we are on a 4 lane (each way) highway... fresh snow cover... .some gusting wind... .my wife driving way to fast... .my wife talking on cell phone... .my wife giving me evil eye as I suggest that she is exceeding a safe speed (way before I knew about "rules" or BPD even)... .

So... hurtling down the highway we go in a heavy 4 wheel drive SUV... .and I honestly don't know if it was a gust... .or  a twitch of the steering wheel that caused this... .but we "flipped" from front pointing down the highway... .to nose pointing 180 degrees towards the wrong way... .and going backwards down the highway... .and there were cars and trucks out there with us.

Anyway... .the following are the emergency procedures that were executed by my wife in this situation.

Step 1... .curse loudly

Step 2... .(my personal favorite) throw the phone over your shoulder... .(hard) so it goes all the way to the back of the SUV

Step 3... .stop looking out windshield... .stare at husband in passenger seat

step 4... .open eyes wide and have troubled facial expression

step 5... .wait... .

Waiting on what... .we will never find out... .I took over.  And yes... .these were all very distinct steps... .there was a bit of a pause between them... .

In other words... .she first looks at me... and looks kinda normal... then when she "sees" me... she opens eyes wide... .and gives troubling look.

At that point... .I calmly said... ."put both feet on the floor"  and "keep the wheel centered"... .luckily she did both

We stopped... .I said "gently push the gas and turn wheel to the left"... .which she did and we got turned the correct way ... .

Final one was "pull over to the right side and lets stop for a bit... ."... .which she did... .and then she started freaking out.


It's actually one of the cute stories I can tell... .or bring up... .an she enjoys it with everyone else.  For instance... .if there is a ridiculous question about "what should we do... ."  a response from me about "how about throwing the phone"... .will usually do the trick to break the ice.

Sorry about the hijack... .returning the thread to "normal control"     





 

[Cloudy Days]

My husband believes he is a master at driving and can do no wrong . Thankfully the medication he is on has made him drive slower and not care so much about getting quickly from A to B. But some of my worst experiences with my husband have been in a vehicle. Driving home from Vacation and with little sleep doesn't  make for a happy BPD. I have some major PTSD from that trip and he wants to do it again in January. Had a bit of a fight about it this weekend because I do not want to deal with that nightmare again. But I did tell him about his gift. We are horrible about buying something and just giving it to the other person. Our stocking are full with unwrapped gifts that came in the mail... .

He had to tell me I bought the wrong kind (needs to have two cameras, not one), then after canceling and reordering it 5 times, he finally just let me buy the one I picked out... .

It really sucks when they decide to have a bad day on your day off. 2 days a week I get to stay home and Saturday was spent fighting/avoiding my husband because get this, the weather man said it was suppose to be warmer than it actually was. He hates the cold and everything to do with Winter. He has good reasons, but it was in the 50's and he couldn't just enjoy it.

[formflier]

fighting/avoiding my husband 

What would happen if you decided not to fight with him... .?  If you just avoided... used boundaries... .do you think your day would have been better?

[Cloudy Days]

I say fighting and really I mean a calm conversation on his part that gets no where. Eventually it gets to the point where he crosses a line and I walk away/avoidance. He is dealing with a lot of stress at the moment, and asked to have a conversation about serious issues. Of course one of these issues is moving to another state, something we cannot do in any way right now so why talk about it? I try to deal with one problem at a time. But since I see no reason for having the conversation he sees it as me not being invested in our relationship. I can't avoid all conversations with him about serious issues, we have to try and discuss things at some point, he usually just chooses to do so when he is in a foul mood or when I am getting ready to go to bed. To me I see it as a way for him to push blame on me for our relationship problems. He asks to have a conversation knowing full well that we will get into an argument about it, because he sets it up that way. He literally starts a conversations with "I don't want to fight but why... .?"  He ended up sleeping for most of the day. It's just crummy that my Day was spent either alone or discussing loaded topics with him. He eventually stopped being moody and we watched a movie together. But then it was time for me to go to bed.

[formflier]

point where he crosses a line and I walk away/avoidance.

Expand more on this part... .what line does he cross... .lay it out here... describe that line... .

He is dealing with a lot of stress at the moment, and asked to have a conversation about serious issues. Of course one of these issues is moving to another state, something we cannot do in any way right now so why talk about it? I try to deal with one problem at a time. But since I see no reason for having the conversation he sees it as me not being invested in our relationship.

Why avoid the conversation if it is respectful?  Even it there is no way to do it... .  Be an active listener... .this is key.  Listen for emotions to validate.    Ask about emotions if you don't hear any.

If he tries to pin you down... .you need time to absorb it... .you will get back to him with more questions... .don't blow him off... but don't agree to something that you can't agree to.

I can't avoid all conversations with him about serious issues, we have to try and discuss things at some point, he usually just chooses to do so when he is in a foul mood or when I am getting ready to go to bed. To me I see it as a way for him to push blame on me for our relationship problems. He asks to have a conversation knowing full well that we will get into an argument about it, because he sets it up that way. He literally starts a conversations with "I don't want to fight but why... .?"

Big point here... .HUGE... .!  Most "nons" complain about pwBPD "mindreading" them... .rather than listening to what is actually said... or watching what is actually done.  So... don't do it to them.

I know you have history... .I know you are probably right... .but... probably isn't a fact.

Focus on the truth... .he has asked to have a conversation... .and you should have one with him... .as long as he stays respectful and not abusive.

Again... .listen for things to validate. 

 He ended up sleeping for most of the day. It's just crummy that my Day was spent either alone or discussing loaded topics with him. He eventually stopped being moody and we watched a movie together. But then it was time for me to go to bed.

Work on an even way to say to him... ."We rarely have good conversations after xxpm... ."  I'll make time to talk with you about this in the morning... ."    Then go do bed... .DO NOT discuss further that evening... .

[Cloudy Days]

The line he crosses is usually bringing my family into the conversation when it has nothing to do with the conversation. Or just outright, calling names or abusive talk. That's when I walk away. We have had a conversation about moving to another state many times and I have told him I need to see change in him before I consider it. He asks what change and I lay it all out to him. He starts promising things that he can't possibly promise. I don't really know what to say to promises that can't be kept other than, you don't know if that will be possible. "things like visiting family every year, when it took us 8 years to visit his brother". Obviously it's a little too much for him so he gets upset and starts calling names because he wants me to just agree to move, without any plan or actual way to do it and for me to just accept his promises as fact. The moving thing is a constant topic, I refuse to talk about it this much. My point was that I couldn't avoid the conversation, but it never stays respectful, and on this particular day he was moody from the get go. Slamming things, giving grumpy answers, complaining about and getting onto me about trivial things. Then asks to have the conversation because he is unhappy because it is so cold. He stays calm, but he will say things that are rude and mean which causes me to not stay calm, because they are attacks. Then points the finger at me for being emotional and says see, I am staying calm. He is also a topic jumper, starts out on one thing and jumps around to fit his needs of what he wants to address. It's hard to figure out what the actual issue is because he doesn't stay on one issue and it overwhelms me. If I try to say something about one thing he gets upset that I am interrupting him. So basically I am just suppose to sit there and listen to his long rant about this and that. Then he starts attacking my ability to be emotionally supportive to him. I validate all the time, I have become a pro at it, but some of the other tools are lacking. I grew up with a family that has a lack of emotional support so it's not really something I learned. I tend to shut down instead of stay in the conversation, especially if I feel attacked in some way.  The way he words everything seems like trick question to me. And when I do find something to validate he has already blown past it, or like I said I interrupt him.

I just saw this as a bad day to discuss anything important because he was in a bad mood. His attitude about everything was skewed and empathetic to me. 

[formflier]

The line he crosses is usually bringing my family into the conversation when it has nothing to do with the conversation.

Hmm... why does this matter?  If it is being said in an unabusive manner... ?  If it is being said abusively... .then it doesn't matter what the subject is.

Or just outright, calling names or abusive talk. That's when I walk away.

Good ... .what do you say right before you walk away?

We have had a conversation about moving to another state many times and I have told him I need to see change in him before I consider it. He asks what change and I lay it all out to him.

This sounds like "dealmaking" with a pwBPD traits... .  How has that been working out for you?

More later... .

[Cloudy Days]

I was telling you what line he was crossing. If we are talking about my parents as a subject then I can hear his objections about them, they aren't perfect people, he has plenty to complain about and they are valid complaints. However usually when the subject comes up, it is to throw my dysfunctional family into my face, which is where he is crossing the line.

When I walk away I either say nothing because he knows he went too far and I am crying or I say need a break before I start going off on you and I really don't want things to escilate.

My husband is not dropping the moving thing, I am not against it if I see certain things happen with him. He has discussed this with his therapist even. He wants to know why I will not move and brings up the subject often. My job ( I would have to find another one), my parents, and his inability to function as my only support are my reasons. I am not going to pick up and move when I cannot count on him. I need to be able to count on him. We are working on buying a house and he keeps going back and forth on where he plans on moving (with or without me). I have stayed firm on where I want to live. He just isn't accepting it. So the moving away to another state thing isn't something that is going to happen this year or next year but maybe in a few years.   

[Grey Kitty]

When I walk away ... .I am crying.

 

That you are already crying is clear proof that you should have walked away earlier that time.

There really is a limit to how much negative stuff you can take. Protect yourself before you get there.