He's "back" after almost a year…maybe.

[wdone]

Me and my ex-fiance of 6 years who I think is BPD started communicating again on November 27th.  He left town suddenly last January and sent me a text that he had left town.  The six years that we were together, he was constantly running away and would disappear for from 3 days to 3 months.  We lived together for a year or so and I told him to leave when the violence and moods and shifting behavior was getting worse and scaring me and he refused to get help. We continued to see each other after that and started couples counseling. He started to have a lot of paranoid thoughts and was afraid of me, thinking I was trying to poison him.  He then left last January. 

I initially relapsed (I am an alcoholic/addict who had long term sobriety) for three days and was devastated and immobilized for months. 

I then picked myself up and got a new job, worked hard to start and finish some creative endeavors, have become very recognized in my career.  When I finally dragged myself out of bed, I also decided to try to date and move on.  This has been not so good for myself or the man I was dating, as I am still in love with my ex. 

My ex (BPD) and I texted on Thanksgiving and since, we have had 3  several hour conversations, including face time.  I broke it off with the recent person I was dating, but he is very hurt.  There were other reasons I broke it off, due to some of his issues and problems we were not resolving.

To my surprise and against all odds, my ex (BPD) he told me when he got to his new town, things got much worse, and that he went and sought help from a psychiatrist.  He has been stable on his meds for I think about 7-8 months.  He's working a solid 12 step program.  He has brought up tools that he and we can use. 

He said he has thought about me every day for a year and that he has not dated and he has no interest in being with anyone but me.  He said I am a part of him and told me he loves me deeply.  He's been contemplating and talking to spiritual advisors about marrying me.  I was in shock after that first conversation.  The fact that he got help ---- THANK GOD, FINALLY ---- and that he had not dated and was on meds and was considering marrying me……. I was so completely happy and in awe.

He asked me about visiting - NEXT WEEK - and is saying he'll pay for me to go there... I suggested we see each other a few times first before jumping into marriage, even though it has been basically 7 years (minus one apart)...

He called on New Year's Eve and we talked for hours… he seems more present and more calm and I have such hope.  He texted me today that he is "still a little concerned about the whole thing but doing the best that he can"…... which had my heart sink a little.

I am absolutely so in love with him and feel we share a bond beyond the past or his sickness or time or space.  I have never felt this way and he hasn't either.  I tried to move on--I tried everything this past year, yet here it/he/we are again…and it feels so natural and right and beautiful. I am still floored that he got help and that he "came back…"

I want to be with the amazing feelings and the love and the hope---but I am a little worried about his slight, still ambivalence although he does seem better. 

A friend of mine is very concerned about me getting back into this and getting really hurt.  I thought I would come back on here and get some feedback….

Thanks…...

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Hawk Ridge]

If I have learned anything in this last year, it is easier to give sweeping generalizations of advice than it is to accept we are all in different circumstances. If I were in your circumstances, I would be in the same quandary. That said, how about this: in the 12 step program, we talk about acting rather than reacting to life.  That can mean not taking self-defeating measures.  As addicts, we want instant gratification.  I am 25 years in recovery from an eating disorder and my expwBPD is a recovering anorexic/alcoholic.  We both worked a program but, in many ways, we didn't.   We wanted the instant gratification that fits well in the idealization phase.  For me,when she left, it was all the old visceral pain of detox.  That said, my thoughts would be to take it one day at a time, minute by minute, while keeping close with your sponsor.  Tell your sponsor what you need or want from them... .ie., my sponsor knows I need to make the decision about my relationship ... .i can hear feedback but I need to own my decision, acting rather than reacting, as I would likely find ways to circumvent the solution.  Go to meetings and go to meetings and go to meetings. Keep loving yourself and putting yourself first. Make decisions mindfully and show yourself the same compassion gou give to others.  Finally, do steps one, two, and three: 1)we are powerless over our partner in our relationship; 2) i know my higher power has this; 3) I think I'll let my higher power take it.  Repeat repeat repeat. 

Hope this has been helpful. Remember, as we say in the program, you are not alone.  Keep coming back... .both to meetings, to here, and to yourself.  I believe in you.

[wdone]

Thank you. I really appreciate your feedback a lot. I do need to remember to keep my higher power first and myself Care first. I don't know if you misunderstood but I only relapsed for three days last January. I've been going to a meeting every single day and keeping the program first for the most part other than a few months back I got kind of slippery again. Thank you for sharing your experience strength and hope. I do need to talk to my sponsor more about this and pray more too.

I was thinking about the immediate gratification thing also in terms of us wanting to see each other pretty quickly. Which I'm considering. Also though, it has been a year since we've seen each other.

Going to the gym and meeting. 

[Grey Kitty]

With six years, plus one of separation, starting with talk of marriage is hard for me to figure out.

It could be a new phase of crazy idealization / painting you white.

It could be the result of him working through some of his issues and settling down.

You just talked to him... .what does it feel like to you?


If you visit him next week, what will it mean to you? Will you be able to do it just as a chance to get to know the new/healing version of him? Or will you jump right back into the same patterns you always had with him before?

What have you learned about yourself and your role in the relationship you had with him during your year apart?

[wdone]

Are you and your partner separated?

[Grey Kitty]

I'm living apart from my wife. We're not separated, but haven't spent big chunks of the last year together, and have some big issues to work on.

I think we're about to start couples T soon, assuming she does indeed find a place to stay that is close enough to make it possible.

[wdone]

With six years, plus one of separation, starting with talk of marriage is hard for me to figure out.

It could be a new phase of crazy idealization / painting you white.

It could be the result of him working through some of his issues and settling down.

You just talked to him... .what does it feel like to you?


If you visit him next week, what will it mean to you? Will you be able to do it just as a chance to get to know the new/healing version of him? Or will you jump right back into the same patterns you always had with him before?

What have you learned about yourself and your role in the relationship you had with him during your year apart?

Hi Grey Kitty!

It feels like he is more grounded and has experienced a lot of insight and growth… it feels calm and grounded and very connected and like a spiritual thing.

I would like to see it as an opportunity to see how I/we feel.  I'd like to see how he's doing and how we relate now.  I would like to move there right now and get married and move in, but as was cautioned by a friend, it is best to see each other a few times first…

This last year, I have learned that I am strong and capable and have a purpose outside of him and our relationship… that there are certain things I won't give up and that are important to me.  (He wouldn't ask me to give them up but in the past, I gave some things up as a result of focusing all my attention on him and us.) I wouldn't do that again. 

I've learned that sometimes I didn't give him the space he needed, and that I need and want to do that if it comes up again.  I've learned that my fears around him being with or wanting to be with another woman were false, and I own that it was my stuff…I have realized I completely trust him in that area, which was a huge realization. 

I've realized our love is deep and consistent. 

I have also realized I do need attention and respect and love, and not to the extent that I thought I did from a partner.  I feel more grounded and whole and that I would be ok to allow him the space (to do normal things like hang out with his friends) that I had a hard time with before...

I am noticing my fears around forever/commitment and want to work through them with him, as he is the one person I have ever truly loved and given myself to. 

Thank you for asking these questions 

[Grey Kitty]

Wow, that sounds a LOT healthier than the past.     I do know that in my time apart I can re-connect to things which are important to me, and then get kinda caught up upon reconnecting, so do be careful.

For a year he's been too far away for a relationship with you. Now you want to visit... .and restart your relationship. How does that look?

He's got his therapy team, his 12-step program, and (presumably) a good job in his town.

You've got your 12-step meetings, your newly revitalized career, friends, etc. in your town.

Either of you moving would be a disruption at least, possibly a risk to your recovery.

Who would move?

Moving into separate residences in the same town is slower/safer. Moving into the same house/apartment is faster/riskier.

Have you discussed any issues like these with him yet?

[MaybeSo]

You have received some really good feedback here.

A lot of positive things appear to be manifesting with both you and your ex partner. This is all good.

The only major red flag I see is the Marriage issue.

This in my personal opinion, is merger fantasy. Merging with another is intense, and it feeds directly into attachment issues. I see it as symptomatic.  That doesn't mean that there isn't growth, indeed, growth is hard and scary and can trigger symptoms, eg. merger fantasy.

There is no reason for marriage to be so quickly put on the table after a year separation and previous years of such instability.

Go slow. Stay mindful. Be honest with yourself and each other. In western culture romantic love is the quintessential opiate.  It is used like heroin and defended because it's considered love and love is generally seen as all good. Merger and honeymoon stages flood the dopamine centers of the brain with intense feel good chemicals. it's not grown up, sustainable relating, it's the cocktail our brains bath in to ensure mating and reproduction. People get addicted to it like heroin.  The real relating actually comes after the honeymoon stage but those with addiction often experience the drop from merger heights as a kind of death / abandonment when it's more likely withdrawal symptoms. The roller coaster ride begins again.

You are both in a recovery phase. Make recovery the priority, not merger.

Later when you have both learned to tolerate being together in the boredom of long term stable recovery... .get married!

[wdone]

Wow, that sounds a LOT healthier than the past.     I do know that in my time apart I can re-connect to things which are important to me, and then get kinda caught up upon reconnecting, so do be careful.

For a year he's been too far away for a relationship with you. Now you want to visit... .and restart your relationship. How does that look?

He's got his therapy team, his 12-step program, and (presumably) a good job in his town.

You've got your 12-step meetings, your newly revitalized career, friends, etc. in your town.

Either of you moving would be a disruption at least, possibly a risk to your recovery.

Who would move?

Moving into separate residences in the same town is slower/safer. Moving into the same house/apartment is faster/riskier.

Have you discussed any issues like these with him yet?

Thank you! It feels a lot healthier. 

As he said, he needed that time to get help and heal and he said he did it his way and that it happened how it had to happen… which now I can see and accept…

Restarting our relationship…mmmm--I'd like to jump right in…but I won't.  I'd like to visit and talk on the phone and plan for July, when my lease is up as a tentative date for *me to move there…

We did talk about it and he is planning to stay where he is for a while, and I said I was fine with moving there for a while anyway...   I can take my career anywhere-I can do it anywhere ,and I'm actually working with people all over the US and world, one who is in the city he is in!

I did think about my support system here, though… I'd be sure to get right into 12 step there and find a therapist.  I do have a very close friend 2.5 hours away from him, and my dad has a place 3 hours from him…. I know it'd be a big change for me and take a lot of work for me to get established. 

I would not want to move across the country to be with him and live alone in my own place…

Thanks again for your questions and feedback

We have discussed ALL of these things!  HE has brought most of them up. 

[wdone]

You have received some really good feedback here.

A lot of positive things appear to be manifesting with both you and your ex partner. This is all good.

The only major red flag I see is the Marriage issue.

This in my personal opinion, is merger fantasy. Merging with another is intense, and it feeds directly into attachment issues. I see it as symptomatic.  That doesn't mean that there isn't growth, indeed, growth is hard and scary and can trigger symptoms, eg. merger fantasy.

There is no reason for marriage to be so quickly put on the table after a year separation and previous years of such instability.

Go slow. Stay mindful. Be honest with yourself and each other. In western culture romantic love is the quintessential opiate.  It is used like heroin and defended because it's considered love and love is generally seen as all good. Merger and honeymoon stages flood the dopamine centers of the brain with intense feel good chemicals. it's not grown up, sustainable relating, it's the cocktail our brains bath in to ensure mating and reproduction. People get addicted to it like heroin.  The real relating actually comes after the honeymoon stage but those with addiction often experience the drop from merger heights as a kind of death / abandonment when it's more likely withdrawal symptoms. The roller coaster ride begins again.

You are both in a recovery phase. Make recovery the priority, not merger.

Later when you have both learned to tolerate being together in the boredom of long term stable recovery... .get married!

Thanks--I don't agree, but will for sure consider your thoughts. 

We both feel strongly about marriage, and each other…. He brought up marriage at 3 months.  We got engaged at 1 year.  Even though the issues prevented it, It's something that we both truly want for ourselves and with each other.  It has been on my heart since the first year we met.  We both come from similar backgrounds and both believe in it. I don't think it is fantasy at all.  We have 6 years of being together, and maybe I am wrong, and no offense, but one of the reasons I am with him is that I always feel like it's Christmas when we are together.  I still get butterflies as if it our first date…  I don't think we'll ever go through "boredom"… but i'm also ok if we do!  I've been proposed to 6 times and engaged 3.  None of them but the one to my ex has felt good/right.  I didn't feel that opiate thing you describe with any of them….

[MaybeSo]

Thanks--I don't agree, but will for sure consider your thoughts. 

We both feel strongly about marriage, and each other…. He brought up marriage at 3 months.  We got engaged at 1 year.  Even though the issues prevented it, It's something that we both truly want for ourselves and with each other.  It has been on my heart since the first year we met.  We both come from similar backgrounds and both believe in it. I don't think it is fantasy at all.  We have 6 years of being together, and maybe I am wrong, and no offense, but one of the reasons I am with him is that I always feel like it's Christmas when we are together.  I still get butterflies as if it our first date…  I don't think we'll ever go through "boredom"… but i'm also ok if we do!  grin I've been proposed to 6 times and engaged 3.  None of them but the one to my ex has felt good/right.  I didn't feel that opiate thing you describe with any of them….

Take my comments as educational/informational and of course, you have your own path. As a point of clarification, my mention of merger fantasy really doesn’t have anything to do with wanting or valuing marriage as being a ‘fantasy’.  Marriage is a common goal for many, of course. Merger fantasy refers to a common pattern in high conflict couples where there’s a lot of push - pull and intensity both in the beginning and with subsequent repetitive break-ups and reunifications. Each reunification typically pushes the couple into the honeymoon stage again, and they get stuck there.  Perpetual ‘first date’ constantly interrupted by another break-up.  They break up, and then get back together again, and repeat the honeymoon stage over and over again. Developmentally, we are suppose to move past that stage as a; couple to the next level of relating.  The reference to ‘boredom’ was also not especially clear, I sometimes type too fast and make assumptions b/c of time constraints.  By boredom, I mean reaching a long term period of stability and differentiation that is not pushed into extremes of intensity in the push-pull of comings and goings.  Intensity is not your friend in long term intimacy. So, I do hope you reach what may seem ‘boring’ to those of us who have had relationships punctuated with big ups and downs.  I hope for that b/c it’s once we get to that stable stage that the experts in the field of marriage indicate that real growth both individually and as a couple flourishes.   It doesn’t happen in the “intensity” stages.

Good luck to you both!     

[wdone]

Ah.  :)Thank you for explaining more what that meant. I don't think we've gotten to a boring stage and don't think that we ever will but in terms of how you're referring to it, we have gotten to stages where were really stable and comfortable. I long for that myself.… That routine and security and simple life with him.

[wdone]

I am not sure if I am jumping the gun here…and this is quite humiliating to report…

He has not called since the last call 7 days ago, and has not replied to a few texts the last few days.  He texted a few days ago- "still processing…talk to you soon…"

We had talked about me leaving to go there anywhere between this past Monday and this weekend... (driving, so flexible).  He knew I would have to give some notice here…

I feel (again) deflated and shocked, but more stupid than anything. 

Is this proof he hasn't changed/developed tools to deal with intimacy and commitment?  Am I jumping the gun or not giving him enough time/not being patient enough? 

He seems(ed) to be doing so much better… He sounded super sincere and sweet and didn't want to hang up the phone and was talking of future plans…family, moving, tools we can use…  maybe this is WHY he disappeared, if he in fact did disappear…

   

[Grey Kitty]

  I hate that feeling when you decide that it really was too good to be true... .

I'd say it is good evidence that he still has intimacy issues.

He may be better, but that isn't the same as 'cured' or 'normal' or 'healthy'.

Two steps forward, one step back?

I've got a suggestion for you: For yourself... .mentally call this trip off. Make plans to do other things besides visiting him. Telling him this directly right now probably isn't a good idea.

When he gets back in touch, you can re-negotiate when/if you see him.

[wdone]

Thanks Grey Kitty….

I texted him two days ago that I would be bummed out if the visit didn't happen this week, but that it was ok if it didn't.  I was trying to ease his overwhelm and now I am wondering if he took it to mean I didn't want to come, or if he felt abandoned or not cared about.  I may be over-thinking it, but I am second guessing myself... I think I was trying to take care of his feelings (not healthy?) while at the same time, letting go of the trip just in case he didn't follow through.  I also asked if he wanted to talk on the phone that night, if he was ready.  No word since then…

I have been feeling hurt and shut down to him.  I have been doing things to live my life, acting as if I am not going, and honestly, acting as if we're not going to talk again.  Very protective, but I don't know what else to do.  Better than in the past I think, when I would lay in bed for weeks crying.

[Grey Kitty]

You know... .this really *IS* rejection. It is OK to feel the pain. 

But better to do something you enjoy. 

[wdone]

You know... .this really *IS* rejection. It is OK to feel the pain. 

But better to do something you enjoy. 

Thanks… Do you think you took my text saying it's okay for the trip not to happen as rejection? And, you are right. I haven't let myself feel very sad yet.

[wdone]

I meant do you think *he*, not you.

[Grey Kitty]

I wouldn't be surprised if he took your text as rejection and is handling it badly.

Of course I can't read his mind. 

Before I knew you had said that, I was suggesting you make the decision... .and NOT tell him about it because it is very easy to trigger abandonment fears in a pwBPD. So yeah, I was worried about it.

[JRT]

I was so happy for you Wdone as I began to read this thread... .only to have it learned that it was a bit of a false alarm... .it looks like he is still communicating to some degree and I really hope that there is a happy ending for you both.

[wdone]

I was so happy for you Wdone as I began to read this thread... .only to have it learned that it was a bit of a false alarm... .it looks like he is still communicating to some degree and I really hope that there is a happy ending for you both.

Thanks so much. that means a lot. I was/am hoping for a happy ending as well... .

I'm not sure I have the patience or skills to deal with A relationship with him if he is still going to disappear like he used to. I'm not sure that I want to. It's way too painful. Having said that, I am so deeply in love with him and still have hope even though I'm detaching a lot right now. It still does hurt.

[JRT]

I was so happy for you Wdone as I began to read this thread... .only to have it learned that it was a bit of a false alarm... .it looks like he is still communicating to some degree and I really hope that there is a happy ending for you both.

Thanks so much. that means a lot. I was/am hoping for a happy ending as well... .

I'm not sure I have the patience or skills to deal with A relationship with him if he is still going to disappear like he used to. I'm not sure that I want to. It's way too painful. Having said that, I am so deeply in love with him and still have hope even though I'm detaching a lot right now. It still does hurt.

I think that the key is that he acknowledges it and that he is seeking help. With that, there is hope. But I don't know how much of a possibility it is to be pulled up from this disorder.

[wdone]

A relatively new friend of mine who I'm becoming close with sent me a text tonight. She said that I am charming, beautiful, caring, giving, and have so much to offer. She said "you could charm anybody and get any man that you want but I don't think you believe it. " it made me think… like, hmmm. Yeah!, maybe I should be with some awesome great guy. Then, I thought/felt love about my ex and how awesome and great he is. 

I don't think it's about me being insecure?… I don't think I'm settling for him.

And I really don't want anybody else. I'm so in love with him. Have I said that? 

[JRT]

A relatively new friend of mine who I'm becoming close with sent me a text tonight. She said that I am charming, beautiful, caring, giving, and have so much to offer. She said "you could charm anybody and get any man that you want but I don't think you believe it. " it made me think… like, hmmm. Yeah!, maybe I should be with some awesome great guy. Then, I thought/felt love about my ex and how awesome and great he is. 

I don't think it's about me being insecure?… I don't think I'm settling for him.

And I really don't want anybody else. I'm so in love with him. Have I said that? 

I don't thinks that there is anything wrong with that at all, beautiful in fact. But I do think that you think that you should consider the possibility that there might not be a happy ending.

[wdone]

A relatively new friend of mine who I'm becoming close with sent me a text tonight. She said that I am charming, beautiful, caring, giving, and have so much to offer. She said "you could charm anybody and get any man that you want but I don't think you believe it. " it made me think… like, hmmm. Yeah!, maybe I should be with some awesome great guy. Then, I thought/felt love about my ex and how awesome and great he is. 

I don't think it's about me being insecure?… I don't think I'm settling for him.

And I really don't want anybody else. I'm so in love with him. Have I said that? 

I don't thinks that there is anything wrong with that at all, beautiful in fact. But I do think that you think that you should consider the possibility that there might not be a happy ending.

Yes. I am definitely considering that... .

The problem is there is never an ending. We never had closure. I brought it up as an option when we first started talking again and he said if he tried to havd closure and move on, that he'd regret it for the rest of his life. He stays but not really. He leaves but not really. I know I will be the one to have to "end it" but how... .Neither of us want to. But I know the limbo can't work anymore.

[JRT]

I have not had closure with mine either... .this is our 7th recycle after her first disappearing act. I have been blocked from all possible ways of contacting her and have not spoken to her in 3 months. A call that I had made from a hotel phone was met with a call from the police.

I have a ton of important and valuable property that I really want for her to take back upon condition that she explain herself to me and what she has done. Even the threat of my discarding the stuff is not enough for her to agree to a conversation via a IM from her friend this morning. Closure is not a forgone conclusion with BPD's... .I will likely not have any.

[wdone]

I have not had closure with mine either... .this is our 7th recycle after her first disappearing act. I have been blocked from all possible ways of contacting her and have not spoken to her in 3 months. A call that I had made from a hotel phone was met with a call from the police.

I have a ton of important and valuable property that I really want for her to take back upon condition that she explain herself to me and what she has done. Even the threat of my discarding the stuff is not enough for her to agree to a conversation via a IM from her friend this morning. Closure is not a forgone conclusion with BPD's... .I will likely not have any.

He blocked me for a few months after he left. I, too, tried to get his things Back to him. He didn't get them. My T thinks he doesn't want closure.

Are you trying for closure? How will you get it without her participating?

[JRT]

I would very much like closure... .a part of me, becoming so small it doesn't really matter any more, wishes that it could be salvaged. But as I described, she has gone through great lengths to keep me from contacting her in any way shape or form so it is unlikely that closure will ever happen. How long were you blocked for? How did her reach out? Did he act as if nothing happened?

[Grey Kitty]

He leaves but not really. I know I will be the one to have to "end it" but how... .Neither of us want to. But I know the limbo can't work anymore.

Running away like that isn't what my wife does. I know you aren't alone here; I've read others' stories like yours.

I recall one member here hitting her limit, and telling her guy "If you leave again, that's it. I won't take you back. It hurts me too much to go through it again." She meant it. When you say something like that, you really do have to believe it and mean it. And he has never done it again since.

And there are no guarantees. I know others have drawn the same line, and had their partner cross it for the last time.

 It is tough to get there. As said, leaving isn't what my wife does... .but I'm really getting close to my limit too.