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Author Topic: "I'm sorry but. . ."  (Read 767 times)
vortex of confusion
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« on: January 08, 2015, 03:49:54 PM »

The topic of apologies came in a thread that FormFlier started. I would like to get some thoughts and feedback around apologies because "I'm sorry" is used for anything and everything by me and my husband both. Sometimes, I feel like I am apologizing just for existing.

The situation that I would like some input on happened the other night. My husband and I were trying to have a conversation about the relationship. I asked him a question and he started talking in circles and I could feel myself getting angry and I was losing track of where I wanted to go with the conversation. At one point, I interrupted him and said, "Stop, I have had enough of this conversation."

I know that what I did was rude but at the same time, I was trying to set a boundary of not listening to him take over conversations and make them all about him and his recovery. Later on, I said something along the lines of "I'm sorry but I needed to end the conversation." I mentioned this in the other thread and was told that "I'm sorry but" isn't an apology. I would like some ideas on how to acknowledge that interrupting him was rude while at the same time letting him know why I did it.

How can I set boundaries without being a bit rude at times? And, if I am rude, I want to acknowledge it but don't want the fact that I apologized to erase the fact that I have a problem or am trying to set some boundaries.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 04:07:45 PM »

I personally think that getting in touch with our feelings is the biggest step we can take to make headway in our relationships.  How were you feeling during that conversation?  What was underneath your anger?  Suffocated?  Antsy?  Irritated?  Like the walls were closing in on you?

"I want to apologize for abruptly ending our conversation, Sweetie (or whatever you call him).  I wouldn't like it if you cut me off.  I was starting to feel antsy and like the walls were closing in on me when I couldn't follow your train of thought. I really want us to get better at communicating with each other, it is so important to me!  How can we do this together?  Do you have any suggestions"

My guy understands feelings.  He might look at me sideways from time to time, but if what I am saying and how I am saying it aligns with the feelings that I'm expressing... .he gets it!  He trusts it! 
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2015, 04:18:21 PM »

 

My suggestion is to have two different conversations... .

One to apologize... .

One to explain why.  When you explain why... .try to do some problem solving.  Let him suggest a way to redirect him back to your conversation.

What I think you really want... .is that you want to have a conversation with him and stay on topic... .you want to be "fully heard"... .before going off into "his world".  Correct?

I face similar issues... .redirecting is tough.  I work on it... but no magic bullet.

back to "... .but... ."

Fade to a romantic movie scene in your heads... .they stare into each others eyes... ."Vortex... I love you... .I want to spend the rest of my life with you... ."   music playing in the background... .etc etc...  

That scene has impact...

Same scene... ."Vortex... I love you... .but... ."

At least to me... doesn't have the same "punch".

That's what I was getting after when saying that an apology and explanation should be separate.

Depends on severity to... .

On minor things I will mix them up... .might even catch me saying ... .but...   Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2015, 04:19:33 PM »

 

Vortex,

Focus on a mutually agreed way to get him back to your conversation.  Assure him he will get his time in the sun... .

Stay away from telling him he always does this... .

Just find something to try for a few weeks... .then evaluate.

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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2015, 05:26:24 PM »

I personally think that getting in touch with our feelings is the biggest step we can take to make headway in our relationships.  How were you feeling during that conversation?  What was underneath your anger?  Suffocated?  Antsy?  Irritated?  Like the walls were closing in on you?

I was feeling very angry. We started the conversation on the porch but got cold so we came in. As I was coming in, I was trying to continue the conversation. He cut me off and went off to put something in the laundry and do another household thing or two. After a while, he came back and sat down. I tried to pick up the conversation and started to share the point/topic that I was trying to touch upon outside. I was trying to think of simple things that I could ask or find common ground on. I asked a simple yes or no question and that is when he took over the conversation and started talking in circles. I was feeling repressed, angry, unheard, and generally disrespected.

Excerpt
"I want to apologize for abruptly ending our conversation, Sweetie (or whatever you call him).  I wouldn't like it if you cut me off.  I was starting to feel antsy and like the walls were closing in on me when I couldn't follow your train of thought. I really want us to get better at communicating with each other, it is so important to me!  How can we do this together?  Do you have any suggestions"

I have had conversations with him about his tendency to cut me off and take over the conversation before. I have asked him for suggestions but he rarely has any. It usually turns into him beating himself up for "screwing up" again. I feel like I am in a no win situation because he rarely has suggestions yet continues to cut me off and/or take over the conversation.

Excerpt
My guy understands feelings.  He might look at me sideways from time to time, but if what I am saying and how I am saying it aligns with the feelings that I'm expressing... .he gets it!  He trusts it! 

Mine doesn't seem to get feelings. One of the things that I tried to bring up was the fact that I would like to feel vulnerable with him. I would like to be able to share my feelings with him without him taking my feelings personally and without him feelings like I am attacking him. I have tried so many different approaches to this. I am not a mean person and I don't think that I am being accusatory when I try to bring stuff up. I will never forget the time my dog died and I was sad and grumpy. I was a bit short with him unintentionally and he turned it into a fight. I tried to tell him, "Hey, I am sorry but my dog died and I am sad and upset." No matter how I tried to turn things around or walk away it seemed to just get worse. This was several years ago before I learned any of the stuff here but it was one of those moments that sticks in my mind because I don't feel like I was allowed the space to grieve or even express any kind of emotion or feelings.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2015, 05:31:59 PM »

What I think you really want... .is that you want to have a conversation with him and stay on topic... .you want to be "fully heard"... .before going off into "his world".  Correct?

Yes, that is what I want. I want to stay on topic and have an actual conversation where there is some give and take. And there are times, when I would like for us to go into OUR world where we can discuss some of this stuff and how it impacts the relationship that we have together. I am frustrated because I am having a very difficult time finding common ground for us to discuss.

Excerpt
Same scene... ."Vortex... I love you... .but... ."

At least to me... doesn't have the same "punch".

That's what I was getting after when saying that an apology and explanation should be separate.

I had to chuckle at this. Thank you for the reminder. I have had the conversation about the "but" on my parenting forums and I have even told my husband that when he adds the "but" to something the kids say it really changes the whole tone. It is better to say yes than it is to say "Yes but". It is funny how I missed that. I am way too close to the situation and things are so cloudy for me right now.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2015, 05:36:29 PM »

Vortex,

Focus on a mutually agreed way to get him back to your conversation.  Assure him he will get his time in the sun... .

Stay away from telling him he always does this... .

Just find something to try for a few weeks... .then evaluate.

This is a source of frustration for me. He and I have discussed this several times. At one point, I suggested something that a counselor suggested to me when I was in college, which was to have a mutually agreed upon word that could be said as a signal that the conversation is getting out of control or is going places that one or both parties don't want to go. We talked about it, but it was never implemented and there was no follow through.

He gets his time in the sun whether I want him to or not. I work really hard to find ways to phrase things that won't be triggering to him. I work really hard to try to catch him in the right mood before talking to him. If I try to follow through on something that we had both agreed upon, he will look at me like I am crazy because he "forgot" that we had agreed to it. That makes it difficult because then I will have to re-explain what it was and why we agreed to it in the first place.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2015, 05:37:17 PM »

I will never forget the time my dog died and I was sad and grumpy. I was a bit short with him unintentionally and he turned it into a fight. I tried to tell him, "Hey, I am sorry but my dog died and I am sad and upset." No matter how I tried to turn things around or walk away it seemed to just get worse. This was several years ago before I learned any of the stuff here but it was one of those moments that sticks in my mind because I don't feel like I was allowed the space to grieve or even express any kind of emotion or feelings.

Aw man, okay... . I think I'm getting a better idea of your relationship and I'm sad to say your H sounds a lot like my exh.  He didn't get it and wouldn't and couldn't, didn't have any desire TO get it.  He was more narcissistic, it was pretty wild really looking back.  

Current partner has loads of empathy, they are as different as night and day.

Okay.  Hmmmm... .

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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2015, 05:42:07 PM »

The situation that I would like some input on happened the other night. My husband and I were trying to have a conversation about the relationship. I asked him a question and he started talking in circles and I could feel myself getting angry and I was losing track of where I wanted to go with the conversation. At one point, I interrupted him and said, "Stop, I have had enough of this conversation."

How about "Excuse me, I cannot talk about this now."

That is polite... .and more truthful than a "Sorry, but" when you are angry, not sorry.

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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2015, 07:32:21 PM »

I am way too close to the situation and things are so cloudy for me right now.

Which is exactly why I put up details about stuff going on in my life... .

It seems fairly easy for me to read posts... point people in right direction... .but when I'm writing about me... .it usually takes a nudge from others to point me in the right direction.

I like Grey's suggestion of excuse me... .I'm going to think about that.


Vortex,

Why was there no follow through... .?  When you said the word... did he ignore you... .?  How many times did you say the word with him ignoring before you pitched it in... .?

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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2015, 09:58:15 PM »

Excerpt
How about "Excuse me, I cannot talk about this now."

Short and to the point!  I like that, GK.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2015, 10:02:21 PM »

Aw man, okay... . I think I'm getting a better idea of your relationship and I'm sad to say your H sounds a lot like my exh.  He didn't get it and wouldn't and couldn't, didn't have any desire TO get it.  He was more narcissistic, it was pretty wild really looking back.  

Current partner has loads of empathy, they are as different as night and day.

Okay.  Hmmmm... .

That is the frustrating thing. There are so many times when H just doesn't get it. I can take all kinds of crap IF he could get some of the things that I am trying to communicate to him. Like you say, there seems to be a lack of ability on his part. I use the tools. I try to understand how difficult things must be for him. I have approached this from so many different angles yet seem to not make any headway. There are times when I have felt like I could talk to a complete stranger and get more empathy or connection.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2015, 10:09:28 PM »

I like Grey's suggestion of excuse me... .I'm going to think about that.

I think I am going to try the excuse me suggestion. I just have to keep my head about me enough to not cut him off rudely.


Excerpt
Why was there no follow through... .?  When you said the word... did he ignore you... .?  How many times did you say the word with him ignoring before you pitched it in... .?

We never actually implemented it. I don't remember if a kid interrupted us when we were having that discussion or if it was one of the many instances where I made a suggestion and he put me off by saying we would talk about it later or he would think about it. There have been several instances where he will tell me that he wants to talk to his sponsor about it. I know that I dropped the ball on following through with agreeing upon a word or method of interruption for when he starts going on like that. There have been so many times when I will try to interject or say something and he will sternly tell me, "I wasn't done talking."

Uggh! Typing to type it out and explain all of this makes my head hurt because it makes no sense. I can see where I am dropping the ball on a lot of things. I am doing better in some areas but there is so much stuff to remember and I am tired and I just want to collapse in a ball of tears and let it all out. [/quote]
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2015, 10:23:22 PM »

Excerpt
I am doing better in some areas but there is so much stuff to remember and I am tired and I just want to collapse in a ball of tears and let it all out.

Hey, I spent many times in the shower crying over the last couple of years (so as not to alarm the children).  I don't really feel the need for that anymore but there is no shame in it.  I always felt better afterward and had a good nights sleep.  Sometimes problems can wait until tomorrow.
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2015, 10:42:42 PM »



Vortex,

My wife and I have used a sand timer from a kids board game.  It seems to work better than a stopwatch on a smart phone.

When you flip it over... the floor is yours... .you get to talk until the sand runs out... then the other person flips it.

We generally try to be courteous and not cut the other person off when sand runs out... .it means wrap up your point... not "stop talking"... .

Do we use it all the time... no.  I wish we used it more... .I may try to get some more off amazon.

Funny part... .always claimed I monologued and talked all the time and she never got to talk.  That is where the BPD projection thing is funny.

The hour glass was her idea... .and now I can tell it frustrates her.  I really... really ... .really wanted to rub her nose it in and do that haahaa... .I was right!  So far I've held off... .   

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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2015, 10:44:16 PM »

 

Vortex,

I've had to realize that I have... .and I'm currently dropping the ball on several things.  But... .I didn't get in this position overnight... .and I won't get out overnight.  I am aiming for consistency... .and to make sure that when I make an effort to pick things up... pick up that ball... that I keep it picked up.

So far so good... .

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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2015, 01:20:17 AM »

I like Grey's suggestion of excuse me... .I'm going to think about that.

I think I am going to try the excuse me suggestion. I just have to keep my head about me enough to not cut him off rudely.

If you are about to lose it... .end the conversation/get out. QUICKLY. That comes first. Being polite and kind is a bonus when you can achieve it.

I've left saying "If I stay any longer I'll say something I will regret." Trying not to shout and not to slam the door on my way out. Sometimes I succeeded better than others. I never regretted doing this. [Yes, easier w/o kids in the house]
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« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2015, 10:30:22 AM »

If you are about to lose it... .end the conversation/get out. QUICKLY. That comes first. Being polite and kind is a bonus when you can achieve it.

I've left saying "If I stay any longer I'll say something I will regret." Trying not to shout and not to slam the door on my way out. Sometimes I succeeded better than others. I never regretted doing this. [Yes, easier w/o kids in the house]

Throughout this thread I've really related to you Vortex. My H is also one who will not be able to recognize that I am going through a time and will probably apologize later but there is never a later because he jumps on my back as soon as it happens. This is where a LOT of my resentment stems from because I've never been with someone who has so little patience with me, but requires more patience than every other relationship I've ever had combined.

That being said, I am still trying to exit conversations *before* I explode but of course it isn't always done with a nice tone and smile on my face. H gets very hurt when I exit conversations without being very courteous. And if I can't leave the house when I exit, he has a tendency to follow me or just try to prevent me from exiting. We have talked at length and I have told him that even if I do not say it in a nice way, I am doing this for your benefit, for our benefit. I feel the volcano rising and I am trying to make sure it doesn't melt your face  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) So maybe just be aware that when you exit, if you can't do it with an excuse me (and the appropriate tone), there may be a pursuit and/or a secondary *lecture* to follow.

Good luck with this. it's a tough one.   Bloomer
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« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2015, 11:09:21 AM »

I can relate to your communication with your H as well. Talking about something personal, having mutually agreed on relationship goals, just doesn't work, and while I keep scrambling for that magic way to talk to him so that he "gets" it, only he gets to decide to "get" it or not.

Even if we do agree on something and it appears he "gets" it, that doesn't mean he gets it if it is convenient for him to not get it.

Sometimes he will say he "gets" what I am saying just to shut me up.

Thankfully, we agree on major things, paying bills, sending kids to school, we are pretty much on the same page with the big issues that make a marriage. This is why neither of us has stepped over the line of major things. But for "us" that's pretty hard. Much of what we agree on is his jobs, and my jobs, but we don't have "our jobs". Household tasks are pretty divided, and if I ever asked him to cross that line by helping with what he thinks is my job- house and kids, it doesn't go well. I don't mind taking on "his" jobs if it helped. We even had an agreement in T for me to help with one of "his" jobs but that agreement went out the window the minute we left the office.

We each are responsible for holding up our end of of the jobs of running the family, and so things work pretty well like that.

It seems that if we are joined too closely, he will fight it- he can't get too close to me. He doesn't like it when he is home alone, but if I am there, he's content to work on his hobbies and ignore me. It's the push pull- don't get too far, don't get too close. If we agree on something that might bring us closer- shared interests, friends, or even agreeing to do something together, he gets uncomfortable.

It's a strange dynamic. Once we each had to mail something to one of the kids who was away, so I said, let's put them in the same envelope, just for convenience. He agreed. No big deal. A while later, I noticed he had put his in an envelope and stamped it and left it by the door to take it with him to work to mail. I really don't care if he wants to send his own letter- it's fine for each parent to have a personal relationship with the kids. It doesn't have to be a shared thing all the time.

But he never said anything. He agreed to it, but then decided to do his own. I don't care. I did ask if he still wanted me to include his note in the mail, and he said, no he wanted to do it himself. He could have said that in the first place.

I realize he must need this space to be separate from me. I'm not interested in fighting it.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2015, 11:15:36 AM »

Throughout this thread I've really related to you Vortex. My H is also one who will not be able to recognize that I am going through a time and will probably apologize later but there is never a later because he jumps on my back as soon as it happens. This is where a LOT of my resentment stems from because I've never been with someone who has so little patience with me, but requires more patience than every other relationship I've ever had combined.

Thanks for the response Bloomer!

I had forgotten about this thread but am glad that you responded as it brings up something else that is sometimes problematic for me. That is that it doesn't matter what tone I use, there are times when my husband will misinterpret it and respond to me accordingly. This weekend, there was an incident where I was joking around and being silly with H and the kids. I said something sarcastic and funny and he started to get upset. Our oldest daughter was laughing and she asked him straight up, ":)ad, what is wrong? Could you not hear the sarcasm and humor in her voice?" He said that he didn't and that he can't tell when I am being serious and when I am joking. His inability to detect social cues, tone of voice, etc. may be part of why I sometimes exaggerate what I am thinking/feeling. If I tell him something that I think is pretty straight forward and is said in an even tone, he doesn't get it.
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« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2015, 11:22:50 AM »

We each are responsible for holding up our end of of the jobs of running the family, and so things work pretty well like that.

That works well IF both parties hold up their responsibilities. My H does not consistently live up to his responsibilities and then I get to choose how to respond:

1. Remind him of his responsibilities. (Take the risk of sounding like a nag, irritating him, etc.)

2. Let it go and hope that he remembers to do it. (I have done this quite a bit on things that don't matter as much.)

3. Do it myself and hope he doesn't notice and get mad at me because "I was going to do it."

He does not consistently fulfill his responsibilities. During the holidays, he made a big deal about mopping the floor for me. He even asked me to pick up a new mop cause the old one was kind of worn out. I got the new mop that day. The floor hasn't been mopped. The old map still hasn't been taken out to the trash and the new mop is still in its package. I have chosen to let this one go. I'll find a BS excuse to mop the floor that won't irritate him and lead to the usual, "I was going to do that!"
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« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2015, 11:37:43 AM »

That would make me crazy too vortex.
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« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2015, 12:35:58 PM »

I got the new mop that day. The floor hasn't been mopped. The old map still hasn't been taken out to the trash and the new mop is still in its package. I have chosen to let this one go. I'll find a BS excuse to mop the floor that won't irritate him and lead to the usual, "I was going to do that!"

Why did he say it hasn't been done?  Just curious...
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« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2015, 12:44:57 PM »

I got the new mop that day. The floor hasn't been mopped. The old map still hasn't been taken out to the trash and the new mop is still in its package. I have chosen to let this one go. I'll find a BS excuse to mop the floor that won't irritate him and lead to the usual, "I was going to do that!"

Why did he say it hasn't been done?  Just curious...

I didn't bring it up because there are other things that are more important. I used the mopping incident as an example. Most of the time, he forgets. Or, he will come up with other excuses. I try to pick my battles very carefully these days. I opted to focus on getting him to do something about a car that needed attention. If I bring up too much stuff, it seems to overwhelm him.
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2015, 06:39:37 PM »

 

I like to discuss "tactics" of dealing with pwBPD... .or "making things better".

Here is the thing... .if you didn't bring it up again... .maybe he was waiting for you to bring it up again... .to "validate" something or his effort.

Who knows?

Best not to have a discussion about this specific instance... .best to get him to agree to framework for making and keeping commitments.

They key is to not "accuse" him when he fails to do things... ask the question... .let him help you understand why it didn't happen... .politely follow up with "when will it be done... ."

I am dealing with this in my marriage... .it's tough to make agreements... do your part... .and not have the other do theirs... .especially when they figure out ways it "wasn't their fault".


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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2015, 07:21:53 PM »

I like to discuss "tactics" of dealing with pwBPD... .or "making things better".

Here is the thing... .if you didn't bring it up again... .maybe he was waiting for you to bring it up again... .to "validate" something or his effort.

Who knows?

Most of the time, he forgets or gets sidetracked. I validate and praise him for his efforts quite a bit. Probably too much at times because I know that he really feeds off of positive reinforcement.

Excerpt
Best not to have a discussion about this specific instance... .best to get him to agree to framework for making and keeping commitments.

Could you expand a little about what you mean by having a framework? I am not sure that I understand what you mean. I am having a disconnect as to how we could come up with a framework for him getting things done.

Excerpt
They key is to not "accuse" him when he fails to do things... ask the question... .let him help you understand why it didn't happen... .politely follow up with "when will it be done... ."



I am going to have to ponder this one a bit and start paying closer attention to my tone. I don't think that I am accusatory but I do know that I sometimes let a little too much irritation show through. I am thinking about the times when I have mentioned that something hasn't been done. One of his "chores" is to put away the dishes. If it isn't done, I usually call it to his attention and assume that he didn't know they were done. He usually gives me a time frame like, "I'll do it tomorrow so they will be dry by then." And then, there are the times when he tells me that he will do it "in a minute" or "after he is done with what he is doing". I have been pushing the time frame thing with him and the kids because that was a major source of contention with him and the kids. He would just a minute them until they shut up and he forgot and then it didn't get done. And then he wondered why nobody trusted him to do anything. He has gotten a lot better but there are still days.

Excerpt
I am dealing with this in my marriage... .it's tough to make agreements... do your part... .and not have the other do theirs... .especially when they figure out ways it "wasn't their fault".

That is definitely rough. I understand that sometimes people are tired and don't feel like doing things. I try to make allowances for that too as I know there are days when I put things off because I am not in a good place or get sidetracked.
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« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2015, 06:56:15 AM »

 

Framework:  How long after he forgets do you "remind him"... or "help him remember".  This is his choice... .that way you aren't the bad guy.

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« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2015, 07:06:39 AM »

 

So... .why you?  He's proven he can't do it.  So... .you need to make a choice... .if this is an r/s issue that needs to be solved... .it will be up to you.

Or... .you need to accept it and move on.  For practical purposes... .I don't recommend this.  But if you do choose this route... .you must be able to let it go.


Solving it could be... .when he commits to doing something.  Putting it in his calendar on his phone... .to beep him.

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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2015, 07:42:31 AM »

 

There is a fine line to be walked here... .between "letting things go"... and not pushing at all... .and being a nag.

Exactly how you do this will most likely change some... .

Most likely he will get tired of having to explain himself... .explain why he didn't do this or that... .and start doing some things.

You may be able to get him onboard by looking at these changes as shorter term in nature... .try this for a 2 weeks... .a month... and we'll see how things are going from there.  Rather than have him moaning about having to do something "forever"

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« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2015, 09:36:57 AM »

I think the issue of his mopping the floor has turned into a hydra with a bunch of heads, all biting you in the butt, VOC.

1. The floor isn't getting mopped.

2. He promised to do something and is flaking out on it.

3. If you remind him, you are afraid he will blow up at you. [For sake of discussion, let us say that he WILL.]

4. You are afraid that if you mop the floor, he will blow up at you over it. [For sake of discussion, let us say that he WILL do this too... ]

5. Either blowup on his part is unreasonable. [Although his feeling invalidated in either case is real.]

6. Your fear that he will blow up is messing with you.

My suggestion is to start looking closely at YOUR fear, and where it is sending you.
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2015, 09:53:19 AM »

I really don't give a rat's patooty if he mops the floor. It will get done. I'll throw some soap and water on the floor and let the kids slide around and play in it and a good time will be had by all. When it is all said and done, the kids will have fun and I will have a clean floor and nobody will say a word.

I noticed what happened and I chose to let it go. He has done some other really great stuff since then. Our dryer went on the fritz so he watched some Youtube videos of how to fix it and he fixed it. He took the car in to get it inspected for another year. He is working on finding a better job and has had an interview and is waiting to hear back from them. He has made lots of progress with the kids as they actually seem to want to play with him these days. He has been changing the cat box without any prompting from me. There are a lot of things that have improved so I am not going to say a single word about whether or not he mopped the floor. To me, that seems a little too nitpicky and I also feel that focusing on ONE thing to the exclusion of all others is not very helpful. I picked the floor mopping as an example of a time that he dropped the ball on something that HE suggested. Did it bother me? Heck yes. Have I thought about it? Yes, I have. I would be lying if I said it didn't annoy me. In the grand scheme of things, I can be annoyed by it without feeling the need to say anything. I don't need to ride his butt or remind him to do it. I am going to save that for the more important stuff like paying bills or fixing stuff.
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« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2015, 09:53:29 AM »

Vortex- this is a difficult situation that I don't have an answer for. I mentioned that my H keeps up his end of the tasks- because he is the one who decided them. Many are things we agreed on in the first place. He fortunately has a job that he likes, is very good at, and he earns more than I do. I realize that I am fortunate for this as I really did want to spend more time being a mom. However, what I didn't understand was the rigid division of what he considered man jobs and women jobs. I didn't understand the idea of poor sense of identity. If I fixed a leaky faucet, I was still a woman, but even if I did the dishes all the time, and asked my H once, there'd be an awful rage of how that isn't his job.

The other idea is "if I do something you ask me to, I lose a part of me". If I asked him to do something, that was an almost guarantee that it wouldn't get done. If he decided that my asking him to do something was ordering him around, then he wouldn't do it at all. Another one is that if he has to ask for something, that makes him seem weak or needy or somehow less. His behavior completely confused me because I don't have these thoughts. I don't think like this at all.

So, the way I aquired "my" end of the bargain was basically doing everything he didn't want to do. Most of it was things I wanted to do and all of it benefitted the family. I wanted to take care of the kids, I like to cook. Some of it was just because the job needed to be done. If he decided he was not going to change a diaper, then someone had to change the diaper. If the baby cried and he stayed in bed, someone had to get up and take care of the baby.

If I ever raised the discussion about the strict division of jobs, he reminds me that he never asked me to do them. No, he never asked, he just refused, but where children are concerned, their needs were my priority.

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« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2015, 06:15:17 PM »

My guy understands feelings.  He might look at me sideways from time to time, but if what I am saying and how I am saying it aligns with the feelings that I'm expressing... .he gets it!  He trusts it! 

Very true. Working on becoming better at that... .

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