Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 03:50:06 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Near or in break-up mode?
What Does it Take to Be in a Relationship
Is Your Relationship Breaking Down?
Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle
Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)
95
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: New Beginning 2...  (Read 1222 times)
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« on: January 09, 2015, 03:00:18 PM »

Here is the last thread... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=239412.0

     My wife said she wasn't going to pay a car not until she recouped some of her financial losses from our marriage.     Smiling (click to insert in post).  She cracks me up sometimes.  I told her that I wasn't going to pay hers anymore and they will just come get it.  That's when she said she wasn't going to pay for the washer and dryer anymore and I said, "Fine, they can't reposses that."     

     So my wife posted a picture on her Facebook today.  Two days ago it was the photo I have on my Facebook cropped with just her in black and white and I'm photoshopped out and another photo that says everyone deserves a second chance, but not a third.  Today it is a selfie of her, but not centered (she is off to the right) trying to show she is all cold and bundled up.  In the left part of the picture she is showing the present my 5 YO biological son gave to her for Christmas that says Bless Your Heart because of what she went through last year with 2 surgeries (he came up with that all by himself).  Interesting.  Again, not going to worry about it.  She knows where I'm at.  I think it bothers her that I have gone completely silent and not posted on Facebook at all since last week. 
Logged
PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2015, 08:18:06 PM »

I am missing my wife this evening.  Not horrible, but still there.  Saying it here because I know yall understand.  I'm pending time with my kids and watching a movie and thank God for them. They have already asked to see her and the kids and I told them "getting together may not work out this weekend." 
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2015, 08:30:33 PM »

I'm pending time with my kids and watching a movie and thank God for them. They have already asked to see her and the kids and I told them "getting together may not work out this weekend." 

if you want to reach out to her, this is an opening. Tell her what your kids said.
Logged
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 09:45:21 PM »

I'm pending time with my kids and watching a movie and thank God for them. They have already asked to see her and the kids and I told them "getting together may not work out this weekend." 

if you want to reach out to her, this is an opening. Tell her what your kids said.

I feel like this plays into her and gives her the upper hand and an opening to say, "no" to keep control and reject me.  This is that stupid stalemate stuff I hate. 
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2015, 10:37:28 PM »

I'm pending time with my kids and watching a movie and thank God for them. They have already asked to see her and the kids and I told them "getting together may not work out this weekend." 

if you want to reach out to her, this is an opening. Tell her what your kids said.

I feel like this plays into her and gives her the upper hand and an opening to say, "no" to keep control and reject me.  This is that stupid stalemate stuff I hate. 

True--she can say no.

Do you think your kids will see her and her kids if you don't ask?

She already has the choice to see you and your kids... .or not. Asking her doesn't change that.

What are the chances she will say "yes"?
Logged
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2015, 10:49:46 PM »

Texted her and asked about 15 minutes ago.  No response.  Her loss.  Not mine.     oh well
Logged
123Phoebe
Staying and Undecided
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 2070



« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 05:22:29 AM »

Hi MaroonLiquid,

Has your wife responded to your text?

Your situation seems more troublesome (to me), because there are children involved.  It's just sad   I can picture watching the movie with them, while in the background wishing that you were all together happily-- her and her children there, too.  Your family.

The current situation could go on for eons.  It doesn't sound like anyone's really happy or content with it.  Something's gotta give.

Texted her and asked about 15 minutes ago.  No response.  Her loss.  Not mine.     oh well

Everyone loses when needs aren't being met

Is this how you want to live your life?  "texting" your wife about getting together as a family?

Staying for the sake of staying, isn't the same as staying because there's real desire from both sides to better the current situation, to progress toward a healthier future... .

BPD-relationship or not, our needs matter!  Your children's needs matter!  Placating the disorder is walking on eggshells.  To move forward toward a fulfilling life it's so important to get in touch with just what it is that we value.  And sometimes our values don't match those of others the way we had hoped.  They're still "our" values.

What are her actions telling you?  How do they fit in with your values?





Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2015, 09:22:21 AM »

 

Are the kids in contact with each other.  I don't remember ages. 

Hang in there Maroon.  Nothing wrong with occasionally reaching out

Maybe lets look at this from another point of view.

What does this look like from your kids point of view?  Do they see you making healthy choices... ? 

Logged

formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 09:24:46 AM »

 

Quick tactics comment: 

I think you had a good response for when she declared that she wasn't paying things... .

I think a better... .or best response would have been... ."I'm sorry you have decided this... .or I'm sorry you feel that way... ."

She really was expressing a decision more than a feeling... .if I understand correctly.

Thoughts?
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 10:57:07 AM »

Hi MaroonLiquid,

Has your wife responded to your text?

Your situation seems more troublesome (to me), because there are children involved.  It's just sad   I can picture watching the movie with them, while in the background wishing that you were all together happily-- her and her children there, too.  Your family.

The current situation could go on for eons.  It doesn't sound like anyone's really happy or content with it.  Something's gotta give.

Texted her and asked about 15 minutes ago.  No response.  Her loss.  Not mine.     oh well

Everyone loses when needs aren't being met

Is this how you want to live your life?  "texting" your wife about getting together as a family?

Staying for the sake of staying, isn't the same as staying because there's real desire from both sides to better the current situation, to progress toward a healthier future... .

BPD-relationship or not, our needs matter!  Your children's needs matter!  Placating the disorder is walking on eggshells.  To move forward toward a fulfilling life it's so important to get in touch with just what it is that we value.  And sometimes our values don't match those of others the way we had hoped.  They're still "our" values.

What are her actions telling you?  How do they fit in with your values?



No, unfortunately she hasn't responded.  It really doesn't bother me like it used to.  Honestly, I am tired of the BPD games and control.  Life is too short.  It does make me sad that her illness caused her to make these decisions that affect lives.  She loves her children and yet alienates them from someone who wants to be their father who loves them.  I can't imagine how that is justified in her mind, illness or not. 

Are the kids in contact with each other.  I don't remember ages. 

Hang in there Maroon.  Nothing wrong with occasionally reaching out

Maybe lets look at this from another point of view.

What does this look like from your kids point of view?  Do they see you making healthy choices... ? 

Yes, I believe they all do.  I don't know how her kids take it that for a couple of weeks I'm there and then I'm not for however long she decides to not talk to me.  When I'm around in very loving toward them and they are to me.  I've been very calm and steady and know they see that.  The kids have limited contact when she goes with the silent treatment and I believe that is more her than them.

Quick tactics comment: 

I think you had a good response for when she declared that she wasn't paying things... .

I think a better... .or best response would have been... ."I'm sorry you have decided this... .or I'm sorry you feel that way... ."

She really was expressing a decision more than a feeling... .if I understand correctly.

Thoughts?

I agree with those responses that they would have been better.  I admit she got me frustrated because I felt like I was being used again. 

Logged
Moselle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 11:21:13 AM »

Maroon Liquid.

So sorry you're going through the silent treatment.  It's a cruel, cruel game to play. Unfortunately they feel fully justified in their minds as punishment for perceived sins. But please remember it's no fault of yours. It's the disordered behaviour of a delusional mind.

Hang in there! I know it's the most difficult thing in the world, because it's my W's punishment of choice these days too. Perhaps you can see it as an opportunity to look after yourself.   
Logged

sweetheart
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, together 11 years. Not living together since June 2017, but still in a relationship.
Posts: 1235



« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 11:31:05 AM »

Hello MaroonLiquid,

I'm sorry that your situation with your wife is the same even though I can hear that you feel differently about how to handle things. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I just want to say that phoebe's post resonated emotionally with me as a parent and I'm not sure you heard her. She is making a very valid and telling observation when she says "staying for the sake of saying is not the same as staying because you both have desires to make things better... ."

I wonder too the emotional impact this is having on your children the longer it continues, I know for sure the emotional fall out for my s6. I hold myself responsible for this because I prioritised my h needs and demands and chaos over my sons for too long. I had the best of intentions, but when you have children they have to come first. Especially if there is a protracted time of disharmony and dysfunction as there was for my family.

Do you have any thoughts of how you see this continuing or how you feel for you all as a family if this does carry on this way ? Are there things you could change that might improve things for you all, not just things between you and your wife ?'
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2015, 12:18:14 PM »

My wife responded a few minutes ago and said she was available till about 6.  I told her we could stop by after we leave this party if that worked for her.  We'll see what happens.
Logged
Moselle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2015, 12:42:55 PM »

My wife responded a few minutes ago and said she was available till about 6.  I told her we could stop by after we leave this party if that worked for her.  We'll see what happens.

Glad the silence is broken.  Well done for hanging in there.
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2015, 01:34:42 PM »

Thanks.  I'm handling it much better than I used to.  We are making plans as we speak to get together this afternoon. 
Logged
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2015, 06:26:34 PM »

So we met and took the kids to an indoor trampoline park.  It was a good time.  After, we went to get a small bite to eat.  The kids played and we sat and talked about stuff dealing with the kids.  She mentioned (again) getting our oldest son involved in a "mentoring program" at their church.  I think she sometimes says that to hurt me.  I never let her know I think about that or that it may or may not bother me.  Why would you rather have a stranger be a "father" to your kids than your husband.  Whatever, moving on.  Anyway, near the end of it, she started to dysregulate/pick a fight and I dodged it.  She asked me about registering for classes this semester and I told her that I was going to do a late start this semester because of finances.  She responded, "Well you got the money back from my Christmas gift so that should pay for it.  I didn't respond or acknowledge her comment and went on.  When that didn't work, her tactic changed to telling me that our daughter was going to play softball for a different league (I have coached all three of my daughters on the same team) this season and very calmly I said, "I'm really sorry to hear that.  She's my daughter and would love to have her on my team.  I don't have to notify the league of my "freezes" until the 24th, so if you change your mind let me know."  The funny thing is, we asked our daughter if she wanted to play on my team over Christmas and she made it clear she did, so I believe my wife was trying to set me off, lie, or make me beg but it didn't work.  About that time, the kids came back in and my son sat in her lap and she loved on my kids.  When we left, she gave me a "side hug" (effing ridiculous)   , told her I loved her (no response then but she did tell me she loved me when we were at the trampoline park) and we parted ways.  I figured that her problem this week was regarding the gift she wouldn't accept (because of our "situation", but accepted the cheaper one) and that I didn't give her that money toward the washer and dryer.  this whole week I was given the silent treatment for that "sin" is what I figure.  Another no win situation there.  But I did dodge the dysregulation and I'm glad about that.  One thing I'm getting tired of is when she talks about her future when she has given me the silent treatment doesn't include me, but yet when we spent the last three weeks together we talk about a future.  I get tired of that and it makes me upset.  I just have to let it go and know that is her struggle. 
Logged
Moselle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2015, 06:45:44 PM »

Well done. Excellent work. I liked the way you handled the softball question.

I've noticed that when I'm alone with my W, it goes much better.  It's almost like the children are competition for my attention. She acts like one of them.  
Logged

formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2015, 07:58:49 PM »

 

Well done... .I'm glad you were able to get together.

Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2015, 08:08:30 PM »

Well done. Excellent work. I liked the way you handled the softball question.

I've noticed that when I'm alone with my W, it goes much better.  It's almost like the children are competition for my attention. She acts like one of them.  

Thank you.  I know what you mean. When my wife and I are alone she is sweet, loving and seems to be sincere.  But when we are all together at times, it's like she tries to be combative.  Not all the time, but sometimes.  It's almost like she is trying to set me up to the kids and say, "See, I told you he's the crazy one."  But since I don't bite and stay calm, it's almost like she gets mad that I don't and therefore has to realize I'm not that guy.

Well done... .I'm glad you were able to get together.

Thanks FF.  it was 99.9% fun.  .1% was dodging and that can be frustrating.  It's not so much anymore as I tend to see it for what it is.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2015, 11:40:46 PM »

Fun, Yes.

Relaxing, No.

You were always on guard for the provocation or dysregulation. That was more than .1% I'm afraid.

Great job!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Logged
Moselle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2015, 02:25:28 AM »

But since I don't bite and stay calm, it's almost like she gets mad that I don't and therefore has to realize I'm not that guy.

I love this.  Don't give her what she wants Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

This takes real strength of character
Logged

formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2015, 07:15:53 AM »

  .1% was dodging and that can be frustrating.  

Maroon,

This is a pretty fine point... but I'll toss it out there.  I'm a "language" or "words" guy... .so I get into making these kind of points... .I realize many don't... .

Also... from my piloting background... .I think a lot about "energy management"... .  ":)ealing with" pwBPD takes lots of energy... .so... .anytime I see the chance to save up some energy... .and apply it to something else... I think that is wise.

Many "nons" on these boards complain of being "worn out... "  "tired... .

Anyway... .on to my point...

I think "dodging" involves expending too much energy.  To me... .the imagery of that word is that the "shot" she takes completely misses you... .I see a lot of movement on your part... .and a lot of expending energy to get that done.

I like the word "deflecting"... .when I'm in a feisty mood... .I like the imagery of wonder woman deflecting bullets with her wrist bands.  Hey... .that show was on at a very formative time in my life... .   Smiling (click to insert in post)

Most of the time I use the imagery in my head of a tank... .I'm in the tank and I'm driving towards a healthy r/s and healthy choices in my life.  I've used the tools here to get extra armor so her "shots" deflect off and don't penetrate.

If you have never seen movies or videos of tank battles... .this may be hard to imagine... .but the shot ricochets off into never never land.  If one penetrates... .that's no good.  Usually everyone inside dies. 

That's why good armor is important... .

Maybe... to tie this in with the lessons on here... .the tank has an ejection seat.  That is used when boundary enforcement is needed.  The non is the only person that can pull the ejection handle... .

Thoughts... .?



Logged

Moselle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2015, 11:06:13 AM »

If one penetrates... .that's no good. Usually everyone inside dies.

I like the imagery here. We didn't choose a war, but the missiles are guaranteed, so we better beef up the armour.

I'm learning to be patient with myself if she gets through. I can retreat, regroup and come again tomorrow. Wiser.

I'm curious about your feisty mood. I call it warrior mode, and she knows to stay away, because I'm on form and she won't get much past me. I don't normally engage it, but it happens naturally as a response to scud attack. I'm very self aware in that mode and very lucid and in control of my thoughts and actions. I'd like to be there more, because it is a very assertive (not necessarily aggressive) place. Often I find myself lost in the FOG instead,and disoriented.

Energy management. I like that too

Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2015, 12:40:32 PM »

  .1% was dodging and that can be frustrating.  

Maroon,

This is a pretty fine point... but I'll toss it out there.  I'm a "language" or "words" guy... .so I get into making these kind of points... .I realize many don't... .

Also... from my piloting background... .I think a lot about "energy management"... .  ":)ealing with" pwBPD takes lots of energy... .so... .anytime I see the chance to save up some energy... .and apply it to something else... I think that is wise.

Many "nons" on these boards complain of being "worn out... "  "tired... .

Anyway... .on to my point...

I think "dodging" involves expending too much energy.  To me... .the imagery of that word is that the "shot" she takes completely misses you... .I see a lot of movement on your part... .and a lot of expending energy to get that done.

I like the word "deflecting"... .when I'm in a feisty mood... .I like the imagery of wonder woman deflecting bullets with her wrist bands.  Hey... .that show was on at a very formative time in my life... .   Smiling (click to insert in post)

Most of the time I use the imagery in my head of a tank... .I'm in the tank and I'm driving towards a healthy r/s and healthy choices in my life.  I've used the tools here to get extra armor so her "shots" deflect off and don't penetrate.

If you have never seen movies or videos of tank battles... .this may be hard to imagine... .but the shot ricochets off into never never land.  If one penetrates... .that's no good.  Usually everyone inside dies. 

That's why good armor is important... .

Maybe... to tie this in with the lessons on here... .the tank has an ejection seat.  That is used when boundary enforcement is needed.  The non is the only person that can pull the ejection handle... .

Thoughts... .?


That's good.  The Wonder Woman thing struck a chord with me also.  I see myself as Neo from The Matrix dodging the bullets.   Smiling (click to insert in post).  Anyway, I texted my wife last night and told her we had a great time, thanks for meeting us and I loved her.  No response so I guess the silent treatment is on again.  Oh well.  She must be really pissed that I didnt give her the money for that bracelet she wouldn't accept.  No-win with that one.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2015, 03:00:19 PM »

She must be really pissed that I didnt give her the money for that bracelet she wouldn't accept.  No-win with that one.

She can stop you from 'winning.'

However you get to choose whether to play that game or not. If you play by her rules, you lose.

"If you let her pull the fight down to her level, she will fight you there... .and beat you with experience!"

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Keep on making the right choice!
Logged
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2015, 03:20:18 PM »

She must be really pissed that I didnt give her the money for that bracelet she wouldn't accept.  No-win with that one.

She can stop you from 'winning.'

However you get to choose whether to play that game or not. If you play by her rules, you lose.

"If you let her pull the fight down to her level, she will fight you there... .and beat you with experience!"

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Keep on making the right choice!

I do agree with you that she is "making me pay" for not giving in to her.  I am not playing her game and she doesn't like that.  She also doesn't like that I won't let her pull me down to that level.  I will keep on making the right choice.  I don't get how they can feel good about acting this way and I know deep down they don't they just don't know a better way of coping.  I appreciate all the support on here.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2015, 05:05:37 PM »

  I see myself as Neo from The Matrix dodging the bullets.  

Love it... .and actually... .a very good example.

Once Neo realized that he could control the matrix... .that it responded to him... .he had power.

You have power... .you understand the matrix... . 

You also need to realize situations where you need to get out... .(I'm a bit fuzzy on remember how they "got out"... but remember that was a big deal.  That is boundary enforcement... .just "get out"... .and come back later
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2015, 08:13:18 PM »

  I see myself as Neo from The Matrix dodging the bullets.  

Love it... .and actually... .a very good example.

Once Neo realized that he could control the matrix... .that it responded to him... .he had power.

You have power... .you understand the matrix... . 

You also need to realize situations where you need to get out... .(I'm a bit fuzzy on remember how they "got out"... but remember that was a big deal.  That is boundary enforcement... .just "get out"... .and come back later

Isn't getting out what I've been doing?  I think what she's doing the last week or so is another "tantrum" (can't think of the name) to get me to do what she wants. I just can't reinforce it this time.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2015, 09:22:56 PM »

 

I think you were thinking about "extinction burst"... .where they try again to get you to conform to their old ways
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2015, 09:56:44 PM »

I think you were thinking about "extinction burst"... .where they try again to get you to conform to their old ways

That's exactly what I was thinking about.  I can't give in this time.  I am struggling and missing my wife tonight though.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2015, 10:11:28 PM »

I think you were thinking about "extinction burst"... .where they try again to get you to conform to their old ways

That's exactly what I was thinking about.  I can't give in this time.

I think you already had the worst part of an extinction burst a round or two ago... .and you are correct.

If you give in this time, you're giving her intermittent reinforcement. Which will encourage her too much more!
Logged
RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2015, 10:42:36 PM »

I agree totally GK. 
Logged
Moselle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2015, 10:57:53 PM »

I just can't reinforce it this time.

Well done. Keep it up.

Once we understand the matrix. Do we have a responsibility to help the matrix understand itself, or is that the matrix's business? And we are best holding the advantage  to ourselves?
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2015, 10:55:15 AM »

I just thought of something else at lunch the other day that may have caused my wife to start to "change" that day and Moselle said something that stuck with me.  I do think there is the exinction burst element in this but also I think there was another trigger possibly from something that happened. 

I've noticed that when I'm alone with my W, it goes much better.  It's almost like the children are competition for my attention. She acts like one of them. 

     My son asked her to come back to "our house" (my apartment) after they jumped.  It was weird that she agreed so quick and found that very strange considering I've lived here six months and she still hasn't stepped foot in my apartment.  To say that my ears perked up when she told him yes so quick and easily was an understatement.  Almost a "what the hell are you up to" thought by me.  Is that wrong considering the last few months?   Smiling (click to insert in post)  I asked if she was hungry and she said they already ate, but then when we got in our vehicles to leave, she said our daughter was hungry so could we stop.  I said sure.  Part of that I believe she knew she had to pick up our oldest daughter from a friends house close by, but I also think it was a stall tactic.  We were there about an hour and a half.  I believe she was looking for a reason to not come over and "created" the dysregulation to do it.  My son asked her again if she was coming and this time she said "no and that she had to pick up our other daughter and then our son from work so it wasn't going to work out this time."  He was obviously upset and I told him, "It's ok buddy.  We can do it another time."  She asked what we were doing tomorrow (yesterday) and I told her other than church, nothing.  She said maybe we can do something after that, but that didn't happen (didn't call or text about getting together).  I figured she would offer for us to come over to remain on "her turf".  That's the first time I think ever she has let him down.  They have always been close and he adores her and she has always adored him.  I know she still does.  Sorry, not trying to over analyze, but thought of this this morning on the way to work.  I guess I'm trying to figure out why she met us in the first place if she was still dysregulated... .Guess I won't know that... .

Thoughts?

The last few minutes, I feel down and almost hopeless.  I'm changing myself and feel stronger than I ever did, but know I still have a ways to go.  It just seems like when we both come to an agreement to make counseling appointments like we did two weeks ago, we end up here at the "silent treatment" stage.  When we are communicating in a loving manner, we agree that counseling is the next step and she always says that she is trying to be different, "let more things go" and work on us.  I do believe her, but then the dysregulation when she doesn't get her way.  Sometimes I just want to say, "Either make a T appointment or we're through."  This is one of those days I feel used.  I can't tell if she was more mad for me taking one of her presents back and not giving her the money, or if she is just mad I took it back period.  I hate not knowing.  I hate that everything is still "in her court" so to speak and it seems she has no desire to change it (I'm talking about the relationship aspect).  Or maybe she does and doesn't know how to/scared to because this is the only way she knows how to deal.  Sorry, just venting.
Logged
Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2015, 12:47:19 PM »

I can't tell if she was more mad for me taking one of her presents back and not giving her the money, or if she is just mad I took it back period.  I hate not knowing.  I hate that everything is still "in her court" so to speak and it seems she has no desire to change it (I'm talking about the relationship aspect).  Or maybe she does and doesn't know how to/scared to because this is the only way she knows how to deal.  Sorry, just venting.

The money from the bracelet that you took back... .

Would it have paid for the Washer & Dryer?

The thing that seems to be her "sticking point" with you these days?

Just curious, here, and wondering if it could have anything to do with anything.
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2015, 01:05:49 PM »

I can't tell if she was more mad for me taking one of her presents back and not giving her the money, or if she is just mad I took it back period.  I hate not knowing.  I hate that everything is still "in her court" so to speak and it seems she has no desire to change it (I'm talking about the relationship aspect).  Or maybe she does and doesn't know how to/scared to because this is the only way she knows how to deal.  Sorry, just venting.

The money from the bracelet that you took back... .

Would it have paid for the Washer & Dryer?

The thing that seems to be her "sticking point" with you these days?

Just curious, here, and wondering if it could have anything to do with anything.

No, it would have still been $800 short.  Just another "temper tantrum" extinction burst for not getting her way IMHO... .But I could be wrong... .And if it was so important for her to pay off the washer and dryer, why did she buy me a Christmas gift?
Logged
Moselle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2015, 03:07:10 PM »

Logic says if there's no money, go easy on the gifts. Give smaller, less expensive gifts. My wife's BPD says:  Christmas is one of two days I feel loved. (The other being her birthday). I may be dead in January, let me give and receive as many gifts as I possible so I can feel good for one day. Borrow money if we have to.

Doesn't make much sense to me when when we're short of cash, but it sure makes sense to her.  Point is this.  They see the world very very differently and nothing we do or say can change the way they see things.  If it wasn't the bracelet, washer and drier,  it would have been the tiles in the bathroom,  the dogs, and the stove.  

Any thing will do, when they want to play victim.

I'm learning my W's triggers are:

Money

Intimacy

Anything about me, appearance,  the way I eat, walk, smile

'Analysis' of anything

Stress

Marriage counselling

deadlines

a change in plans

My point is (as much to myself as anybody else) . I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't change it. Get off her back, get out of her way, get on with my life. I can reasonably avoid these triggers, but beyond that she will behave the way she behaves and there is nothing I can do about it beyond validating her and looking afer myself.
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2015, 03:13:44 PM »

Logic says if there's no money, go easy on the gifts. Give smaller, less expensive gifts. My wife's BPD says:  Christmas is one of two days I feel loved. (The other being her birthday). I may be dead in January, let me give and receive as many gifts as I possible so I can feel good for one day. Borrow money if we have to.

Doesn't make much sense to me when when we're short of cash, but it sure makes sense to her.  Point is this.  They see the world very very differently and nothing we do or say can change the way they see things.  If it wasn't the bracelet, washer and drier,  it would have been the tiles in the bathroom,  the dogs, and the stove.  

Any thing will do, when they want to play victim.

I'm learning my W's triggers are:

Money

Intimacy

Anything about me, appearance,  the way I eat, walk, smile

'Analysis' of anything

Stress

Marriage counselling

deadlines

a change in plans

My point is (as much to myself as anybody else) . I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't change it. Get off her back, get out of her way, get on with my life. I can reasonably avoid these triggers, but beyond that she will behave the way she behaves and there is nothing I can do about it beyond validating her and looking afer myself.

The way I look at it, if it was so important to pay off the washer and dryer ($1100 dollars), it's not like she had a car note the last 6 months ($2400 dollars total that I paid just for her car note) and taken three vacations in that time so she could have easily paid it.  She makes more than I do by a few hundred dollars a month, and I pay $1400 dollars a month in child support  to my ex (her ex doesn't give her child support and owes her over 40 grand in back child support.  Child support has always been a thorn in her side.  She has always had trouble that I pay and her husband doesn't) and I still paid those things.  She didn't want to and wanted/expected/hoped for me to at the last minute putting me in a now-win... .And when I wouldn't and brought up those other things she did with her money, well you know what logic/truth does to a person with BPD... .That's why going forward, I am sticking to what I told her and won't pay her car note any longer.
Logged
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2015, 08:55:19 AM »

     The last few days I have been dealing with some issues within myself that need to be addressed that I believe are contributing to her "cycles" (push/pull) we can't seem to shake.  Yes, I know that it is part of what she struggles with, but I am realizing since this whole washer and dryer thing, that a major reason we can't move past this part of it is... .***DRUMROLL PLEASE***... .ME... .my boundary lines haven't been firm enough, have moved over certain issues and I have allowed it.  My wife said a few things in our last "warm" (a tad heated, no screaming) discussion before the latest bout of silent treatment began about a week and a half ago that caught me.  She knows I have a good heart, loving and would do anything for her, and I would.  She has told me so.  She has also made the statement (about 2 months ago) that I care more about our marriage than I do myself.  Actually, she may be right and that is part of the problem.  I do believe that as a husband, you put your wife before yourself.  I won't debate that in a normal instance, but that doesn't mean you allow them to abuse you.  I have to show strength and look out for myself because she isn't looking out for me.

    First thing she said was, "I'm trying to recoup some of my losses from our marriage".  Now, I know this is pretty much projection and I get that.  She is projecting what her ex husband did to her completely on to me.  But what she is trying to do with this statement is get me to back down by saying, you are right.  I won't.  She is also using anything she can to not have to be responsible.  She can't afford her life, (as it stands currently) and we both know it.  The funny thing is she always says I can't make it without her, yet the three weeks over Christmas, I was buying groceries for her and the kids because she was broke.  The crazy thing is is that without a car note and even without medical insurance (because I felt keeping her on was the right thing), she is always broke.  She has been saving over $1000 dollars a month (during our split the last 6 months with no car note and no insurance) and still can't make it.  Yes, having three teenagers can be expensive, especially with what schools require parents to come up with now days for laptops and other stuff, but there is no reason she should ever be broke.  She spends money like crazy when she dysregulates to try and make herself fell better or smooth things over with the kids after a dysregulation to keep them "quiet and controlled".  She isn't trying to "recoup" anything, she is trying to survive.  I get that deep down fear of hers and it is real.  Her mom told her that she couldn't make it without her.  Her FOO is a big part of her underlying issues, but her mom was partly right.  She can't make it without her or me.  That's why she painted her mom black, because she told the truth, and that is why she gave me the silent treatment, because I told the truth.  She can't handle the truth.  Insert a picture of Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" here.   Smiling (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

    Second statement was, "I can recover from a repossession quicker than you can".   This is a scare tactic to put fear in me that she won't pay it.  I'm not afraid anymore.  She needs to know I'm serious.  She need to know when I say I'm going to do something, I do it.  She neds that, but more importantly, I need that.  She also needs to know that this isn't okay with me anymore.  I'm not abandoning her, but making her responsible for her choices.  Her choice was to separate without working through her/our issues, and without logic.  I won't pay for those choices any longer.  

    One more thing that I have been "chewing" on is what she told me regarding why she can't unblock me on facebook and show us as married.  She said, "She doesn't want to have to tell people that "think" she is going one way why she is going another."  I'm glad that what they think is more important than what I think.  Again, that comes from fear.  Fear of what she may have told them, fear of what it makes her look like, and fear of what they might say.  That is hers to struggle with.

    I realize her whole life is a big ball of fear that she can't control.  I feel sorry for her.  But she has choice to live this way or get help.  She is choosing the hard way.  I believe that by showing strength in this instance, this will help break some of this unhealthy cycle, help me and help our r/s.  When we were spending time together, she told me that she was really glad I was there for her through her surgery, really appreciated me for taking care of everything during those few weeks and that I am a good man (even told me that the day we argued about the washer and dryer).  It breaks my heart that due to fear, she can't see that in the silent treatment times.  Or maybe she does, but still only knows one way of surviving and that's through the very thing she can't control, fear.  Last night, I did something that was difficult to do and said  wouldn't do.  I took off my wedding ring.  Not because I don't feel married in my spirit, not because I don't want to be, but because right now in this time, I have to think of myself first.  I love her deeply and wholly.  That hasn't and won't change.  SHe is an amazing person, and up until the last 6 months, 98% of the time and amazing, caring and beautiful person and wife.  I won't change anything about my Facebook page pictures, marriage status or anything like that even though she has.  I need to know who I am without that so that I can be a better man.  Sorry this is long, just going through some self examination and thought I would share.

   
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2015, 09:18:59 AM »

I think you've got some good insight into your situation. Not that it makes the situation any easier to deal with.

I'm struck with something that you and I share, contrasted to Cole's description in my prior topic here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240363.msg12558153#msg12558153

For his wife, physical separation (moving out) is a new step, with obvious consequences.

For us, that step has already occurred.

It is probably because I'm in some of the FOG myself... .but it seems that this makes the reality of what will be given up with the end of our marriage less clear / less of a threat / less useful to us to point out to our respective wives.

I think the harder truth is that I've got myself in a separated situation, but am still giving my wife many of the benefits of being in a relationship with me... .and not feeling like I'm getting the benefits I want from being in a r/s with her.

Hang in there, and keep asking yourself the tough questions!
Logged
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2015, 09:25:04 AM »

I think you've got some good insight into your situation. Not that it makes the situation any easier to deal with.

I'm struck with something that you and I share, contrasted to Cole's description in my prior topic here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240363.msg12558153#msg12558153

For his wife, physical separation (moving out) is a new step, with obvious consequences.

For us, that step has already occurred.

It is probably because I'm in some of the FOG myself... .but it seems that this makes the reality of what will be given up with the end of our marriage less clear / less of a threat / less useful to us to point out to our respective wives.

I think the harder truth is that I've got myself in a separated situation, but am still giving my wife many of the benefits of being in a relationship with me... .and not feeling like I'm getting the benefits I want from being in a r/s with her.

Hang in there, and keep asking yourself the tough questions!

That is what I have felt like for a few months now.  I have said my wife is getting all of the benefits of a marriage without any of the responsibility of fixing our r/s.  She has no reason to change anything because everything is the way she is "comfortable" with right now.  To make things change, I have to make her uncomfortable.  Not abandoned or shoved aside, just responsible for herself and the choices she has made.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2015, 09:43:44 AM »

That is what I have felt like for a few months now.  I have said my wife is getting all of the benefits of a marriage without any of the responsibility of fixing our r/s.  She has no reason to change anything because everything is the way she is "comfortable" with right now.  To make things change, I have to make her uncomfortable.  Not abandoned or shoved aside, just responsible for herself and the choices she has made.

I think a better way to say it is to stop rescuing her from feeling uncomfortable as a result of her own choices.

The toughest part is that her 'discomfort' will be shared with her kids.

I'm thinking about where you are going... .and I've got a thought experiment for you:

I'm imagining the  Idea lightbulb going on in her head. I'm imagining her deciding that she really can't afford to live on her own w/o your financial contributions to her household. I'm imagining her choosing to move back in with you, or invite you to move back in with her.

Most importantly, I'm imagining her doing this without making ANY other changes.

How would this work out for you?
Logged
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2015, 10:25:43 AM »

I think a better way to say it is to stop rescuing her from feeling uncomfortable as a result of her own choices.

yeah, I knew after I typed it that wasn't the way I meant it.

The toughest part is that her 'discomfort' will be shared with her kids.

Do you mean from a standpoint of that is less money she will have to spend on them or she will blame me/make me look like the bad guy or both?

I'm thinking about where you are going... .and I've got a thought experiment for you:

I'm imagining the  Idea lightbulb going on in her head. I'm imagining her deciding that she really can't afford to live on her own w/o your financial contributions to her household. I'm imagining her choosing to move back in with you, or invite you to move back in with her.

Most importantly, I'm imagining her doing this without making ANY other changes.

How would this work out for you?

Funny you should ask.  I have already thought about this several times.  Here is my answer.  

    1.  I just signed another 6 month lease and she knows about it because I told her about it 2 weeks ago.

    2.  Can't think about it without us/her in counseling for a little while.

    3.  I would not move in the house she is in now because of what it represents to me and the fact that it would never be seen as my house, even if my name was on the lease.  It would always be seen as hers and the kids.  There would never be the respect factor there.

   

Does that answer your question?
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2015, 10:34:52 AM »

because I told her about it 2 weeks ago.

    

Why does she need to know this information?  Did she ask... or did you volunteer it?
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2015, 11:06:38 AM »

because I told her about it 2 weeks ago.

    

Why does she need to know this information?  Did she ask... or did you volunteer it?

Let me think.  We were talking two weeks ago about seriously getting into counseling, getting our r/s back on track and eventually moving back in together once my next lease was up.  Hers isn't up until August.  Why?
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2015, 11:26:27 AM »

Maroon, I like half of your answer.

The logistical stuff about your place vs. her place, vs. 'our' place makes sense.

Imagine that both your leases are up, and the two of you are going to move in together in August or September.

You mention therapy. I do consider therapy useful (and will be starting tomorrow!)... .but it isn't a fix, in and of itself. Therapy is a tool to help work through the issues in your marriage, your issues, and her issues.

Can you be specific on WHAT you need her to address/change in therapy? First, her actions, second, what she says. (What she is thinking/feeling won't help you here.)
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2015, 11:31:19 AM »

  Why?

It is putting information in her head... .that she can ruminate about.

If you wanted to give her that information as part of a strategy... .then the presentation of the information matters... .but she could still ruminate about it... .

(her mind) "if he really loved me... .he would ask to move in with me... ."  or other such blather... .

Realize it doesn't matter that she left and all that... .in her mind she could create something like that
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2015, 12:28:33 PM »

  Why?

It is putting information in her head... .that she can ruminate about.

If you wanted to give her that information as part of a strategy... .then the presentation of the information matters... .but she could still ruminate about it... .

(her mind) "if he really loved me... .he would ask to move in with me... ."  or other such blather... .

Realize it doesn't matter that she left and all that... .in her mind she could create something like that

Can't worry about that now.  I understand what you are saying, but I am not responsible for how she feels about that.  I'm at the point where I need to do what is best for me and our r/s.
Logged
Moselle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2015, 12:44:40 PM »

Hang in there Maroon Liquid. The way will open up for you. It'll get better!
Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2015, 01:57:41 PM »

Maroon, I like half of your answer.

The logistical stuff about your place vs. her place, vs. 'our' place makes sense.

Imagine that both your leases are up, and the two of you are going to move in together in August or September.

You mention therapy. I do consider therapy useful (and will be starting tomorrow!)... .but it isn't a fix, in and of itself. Therapy is a tool to help work through the issues in your marriage, your issues, and her issues.

Can you be specific on WHAT you need her to address/change in therapy? First, her actions, second, what she says. (What she is thinking/feeling won't help you here.)

Changes she needs to make... .

1. Be honest with herself, her family, me and her kids about her abuse.  I don't want it swept under the rug

   anymore (to me, this is HUGE and it will be hard for anything to get resolved until this happens).

2. Her anger and physical/verbal abuse/attacks towards me and the kids.  

3. Her lying to the kids and telling them I didn't offer to help them move even though I really didn't have to.  This

   created hard feelings with them.  Also apologizing to my children about threatening to call the poice on me for

    no reason in front of them.

4. Asking me to leave everytime we have a disagreement (even before the separation).

5. Stop the silent treatments.

6. Projecting on to me what her ex husband does (deadbeat and used her therefore I use her  ) and the

   dificulty it brings her and the kids.  

7. When I need to speak with her about something in another room to keep the kids out of it, she says, "Why do

   you summon me to the "principal's office?"

8. Stop alienating the kids from me when she gets angry.  

9. Says she wants to "compromise", but it is never a compromise.  She isn't happy unless it is her way.

10. When I try and discipline the children, she accuses me of being "too hard" on them.

11. Stop enabling her children and their behavior.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2015, 02:52:37 PM »

Maroon, THAT is exactly the sort of list I was thinking about. Dealing with THAT stuff is what getting into therapy is about.

Another way to look at the list is a much simpler version:

1. Acknowledge that she has behaved abusively toward you (and kids)

2. Stop behaving abusively toward you (and kids)

Pretty much all of those things, including parental alienation (#3,#8) fit into this  #2

#10/#11 about disciplining the children do seem separate... .but if you can negotiate things with her, without her resorting to abusive behavior, discipline might be easy to negotiate.
Logged
MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2015, 03:05:22 PM »

Maroon, THAT is exactly the sort of list I was thinking about. Dealing with THAT stuff is what getting into therapy is about.

Another way to look at the list is a much simpler version:

1. Acknowledge that she has behaved abusively toward you (and kids)

2. Stop behaving abusively toward you (and kids)

Pretty much all of those things, including parental alienation (#3,#8) fit into this  #2

#10/#11 about disciplining the children do seem separate... .but if you can negotiate things with her, without her resorting to abusive behavior, discipline might be easy to negotiate.

This would be great.  About the time where we get to make the appointment or close to it, it's "silence" time... .  That is the cycle I'm trying to break with us right now... .
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2015, 09:01:59 PM »

Maroon, THAT is exactly the sort of list I was thinking about. Dealing with THAT stuff is what getting into therapy is about.

Another way to look at the list is a much simpler version:

1. Acknowledge that she has behaved abusively toward you (and kids)

2. Stop behaving abusively toward you (and kids)

Pretty much all of those things, including parental alienation (#3,#8) fit into this  #2

#10/#11 about disciplining the children do seem separate... .but if you can negotiate things with her, without her resorting to abusive behavior, discipline might be easy to negotiate.

This would be great.  About the time where we get to make the appointment or close to it, it's "silence" time... .  That is the cycle I'm trying to break with us right now... .

Are you talking about a couples T appointment? If so, have you ever done that with her before?

Couples T often goes badly with a pwBPD, and there are many stories of that on the boards, and probably a topic in the Lessons, 'tho I don't remember. Typically it goes one of two ways:

1. pwBPD snows the T, and the T believes that you are the problem. (No good results)

2. T is onto pwBPD, calls pwBPD on bad behavior. pwBPD paints T black, and refuses to go anymore.

I'm doing it with my wife... .but she is higher functioning and more self-aware than most of the pwBPD. Perhaps the exception that proves the rule. And in addition, my wife just mentioned getting individual T with another T. (There was a maybe buried in there; I didn't dig into it.) I told her that I was glad she was taking care of herself, and that it was her business, and I'm interested in whatever she wants to share with me.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2015, 07:13:51 AM »

  her abuse. 

I might define the abuse... .as in describe the behavior.  I would stay away from using the word abuse... .let a counselor "define it"

However... .as you have seen in GKs other post and many others on here... .having a counselor "define it"... .as abuse can lead to painting black and refusal to go back.

I had that experience with one of the many I have been to.

My wife was on a tear in the MC office... .went for about 5 minutes straight... .I lost count of the issues as the clicked over 10... .she was going to the moon.

At some point it became my turn... .before I finished my thought... .maybe 30 seconds of speaking... .she interrupts... mentions me being "abusive".  I ask for help having my turn... .and complain about the "abusive" label... .wife claims she didn't use that lable (less than a minute after she used it)

Wife goes on rant about how I never shut up... she can't get a word in edgewise... blah blah blah... .

Counselor steps in... ."ff wife (calls name)... .you spoke for 5 minutes straight... .ff talked for 30 seconds.  I have a watch... .I was watching it.  You did use the term abuse... .I clearly heard you... ."

That's as close to word for word as I can remember... .I think you get the scene.  What happened next changed my life for the better.

My wife gets up and stomps around the room.  Accused the MC T of being on my side... .it's always his way... .this is a set up... .I'm not going to put up with this... blah blah... .

Then... .in a moment of high drama... .she jerks open the door... .while standing in the door wags her finger at me and the counselor... .declares it's over and she is NEVER coming back.  Door slam.

It was quiet in the room for a minute or two.  I spoke first.  "So... what am I dealing with here... .?" 

MC T draws deep breath... .does some lawyer speak about it not being a diagnosis... that she hasn't seen enough... .she stuck with the word traits.  She wrote down the walking on eggshells book.  Told me to read it.  We finished our time.  I got the book... .my eyes were opened... .I found BPD family... .and was able to start turning around the dysfunctional dynamic in my family.

Interesting note:  My wife now claims we stopped going to that MC because it was too long of a drive... . 

Current MC focuses on empathy and understanding each others emotions... how do we feel about things.

Actually has been very effective... .while I'm not "happy" with the level of communication... .it is much better than it was.

Sorry for the long story... .but wanted to give Maroon and others an idea of what can happen with MC goes south... .

My advice is to keep trying...

Logged

MaroonLiquid
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1294


« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2015, 07:34:03 AM »

I understand what y'all are saying.  I picked this counselor several months ago and made the appointment for us and she "cancelled" at the last minute because she was mad and giving me the silent treatment, but I went anyway.  I chose this counselor because she specializes in PD's (BPD and NPD) and put on her website that she specializes in helping the "high conflict couple".  I will continue using the tools, but now I'm going to the "tough love" stage as to not be used/stolen from anymore.  I will not pay her car notes any longer.  I realize after not paying the washer and dryer, she is in another extinction burst because she didn't get her way and trying to get me to bend to her will.  I won't.  I won't change in how I deal with her as far as communication, but I will deal differently regarding living my values and protecting myself.  She'll just have to get over it.  She commented right before the silent treatment again that she "could get used to the new me".  I think she ultimately has a problem with the new me because I don't give in and cater to her anymore.     
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2015, 07:37:46 AM »

 

Can you clarify what you will and won't pay for... .

If you guys have a good couple weeks... .will you purchase groceries?

Will you purchase groceries or spend on other things if she is being obvious about "blowing" her money.

With boundaries and "new decisions"... very important to be clear... .especially in your own mind.

Logged

EaglesJuju
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1653



« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2015, 09:14:13 AM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .
Logged

"In order to take control of our lives and accomplish something of lasting value, sooner or later we need to Believe. We simply need to believe in the power that is within us, and use it." -Benjamin Hoff
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!