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Author Topic: Need help translating BPD "Vaguish"  (Read 580 times)
jsmit154

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« on: January 09, 2015, 09:17:38 PM »

I'm still learning to speak BPD well. I was curious is anyone here has or has had a BPD  that would speak "Vaguish". This id what I have dubbed it, basically involves them speaking as cryptically as possible, with every answer as vague as possible. After I had left her for 3 months, she spoke completely different from when we had been together. Any experience with this?

Need opinions on what these mean:

1. "There is nothing you can say that will make me change my mind".

2. "I never wanted to be your friend. I wanted more. It's all or nothing with you.

3. "You can't fix this bc it's built on top of all your bull___".

4. "All I ever asked for is just a tiny bit of want I want with someone else. It's always something.  I give up". (Pretty sure a guy she briefly "dated" broke it off with her right before our last fight. Of course, she wouldn't tell me).

Thanks
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JohnLove
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 02:34:16 AM »

I'll offer you a simple answer. You are correct in your findings. She is being as vauge as possible as she also understands that much about herself but not what it is. These answers and statements are to avoid being caught out. To avoid shame, humiliation, AND taking responsibility for her actions. When you do pin her down on something she will gaslight you. Others may offer the direct interpretations of the above but the details do not matter. This is NASTY.

Take care.
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SlyQQ
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 03:06:16 AM »

It means you are simultaneously paying her to much and not enough attention
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Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 05:09:10 AM »

JohnLove has a good point. Also consider projection- what they are upset about, they project on to you.

The thing about vagish is that it is constantly changing. If you try to speak it or understand it, it can feel crazy.

It is very hard for them to acknowlege something they did wrong- it must be anhilatingly shaming to them.




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Mr.Downtrodden
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 05:13:03 AM »

My exgf spoke the language of ambiguity.  Open ended statements, or "hints" to substitute for full and honest disclosure.  Omission was her talent.

One i recall was written in a love letter:  I'm a bit impulsive at times, but basically a good person.

I'd later find out that really meant she'd lose all inhibitions when her mood changed as a result of drinking. While that would be great if her inhibitions were directed at me, they were not.  Many other men engaged her.  She also would say "I like to do nice things for people who are nice to me."

And, "I'm going to (place / event / hangout) with a friend".  A "friend" being the operative placeholder word substitute for a guy.  There were many who held the title of FWB, while i was the guy whom she held deep feelings for.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 07:09:57 AM »

Yes, the ommisions-

My mother, who is very symptomatic does this, but she also flat out lies, to the point of absurdity. She makes up gosssip about me. Most of time I don't know about it, but once she said something strange to my H, my in laws, and other family members who are not loyal to her and they were concerned about it and asked me. When several reliable people who are not usually in contact with each other tell me the same thing, I'm pretty sure it is true, but to this day, she swears she didn't say it.

My H on the other hand, is not an outright liar in general. He uses the ommisions all the time, because if you don't say it, then you are not lying. So, he will make an expensive purchase, something we agreed to talk about first, and not tell me and then I will find out when the bank statement comes. Then he will blame the reason on me. He tells me he is supportive of me working, agreed to watch the kids, and then backed out at the last minute so I can't go. If I asked him why he did this, he says he was true to his word when he said it, but changed his mind. So his word can be unreliable while maintaining that he doesn't lie.

The funny thing about this kind of thing is that they know they do this, so they assume you do it too, but I don't. Sometimes if I say I am going somewhere, I get all kinds of questions about where I was, who I met. The underlying presumption is that I might be seeing someone else. ( I am not). Once I came home late because I was talking to a friend and we lost track of the time. It was the whole truth, but he didn't believe me. If I keep a boundary of privacy with my mom, she will fill in the blanks with her own made up story assuming I am hiding something scandalous.

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jsmit154

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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2015, 07:44:22 PM »

It is incredibly frustrating. I've dated a lot of people.  Typically, when the other party us "done, it is obvious in every way: body language, what they say, etc. But not here. What she says and how she acts don't match. It seems like every statement of finality is not final. Ive never had a breakup when the other person is still so obviously keeping strong feelings for me: physical, emotional, and intellectual. If she is so over me, why does she freak out every time I mentioned something about our past or anytime emotional. Why does she keep saying that she can't see me in person bc she doesn't trust herself? She then says that her and I are "a combination of hormones and stupidity". We tried being friends for a while. One day we would be flirting outright, then the next day she would freak out if I brought up something about the past relationship, saying that I wasn't being a friend. ...
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jsmit154

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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 08:38:30 PM »

The most interesting one is the "There is nothing you can say to change my mind". Most people would be more final in their declaration.  "Nothing is going to change my mind. "You are not going to change my mind". I think I actually saw another post addressing this same phrase. Apparently it is a common one amongst BPDs. Another thing I  could use advice on: Why do BPDs have a tendency to react to an upsetting situation by "clearing the whole table". Whereas I could have been a friend to talk to over what had upset her, she instead throws me into her boiling pot of anger. Same thing when we originally broke up. She had j7st had a horrible fight w her best friend and basically pushed her away and lost her. Where it me, I would have gone to my bf with gratitude to have a significant other there that I could talk to me and let me know that I was still very much loved and appreciated. Instead she starts being ___ty to me! I tried to do damage control but she finally said something that broke. Sometimes in the perfect situation,  the perfect things are said and you break. Trying to change the subject to something positive about 30 mins after the fight, I told her that I was off fri and sat and I wanted to do something special.  Her reply: I don't fu***ng care. That's when I originally decided I was done.
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jsmit154

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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2015, 09:41:25 PM »

John Love, I know all too well about gaslighting. By the end of the ordeal, I had been made to feel like a sociopath, a stalker, an abuser through neglect, and a narcissist. Interesting though. Has anyone else her been accused of being a narcissist by a BPD? I can see how this could easily happen.  Do BPD's misconstrue self esteem for narcissistic tendencies? The fact that you could never really fill their deep pit of emotional requirements makes you selfish and self absorbed? The thing is, I doubt a narcissist would spend 2 months of hell trying to win back somebody that they care deeply for, love, and are willing to face all of the difficulties and hard work that a BPD relationship will take. Comments?
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SlyQQ
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2015, 09:47:25 PM »

Told everyone i was a brilliant machievellian sociopath tracking down what a sociopath actually does led me to working out she was BPD
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2015, 02:43:11 PM »

Reply to wrong thread
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formflier
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2015, 09:06:42 PM »

I

Need opinions on what these mean:

1. "There is nothing you can say that will make me change my mind".

2. "I never wanted to be your friend. I wanted more. It's all or nothing with you.

3. "You can't fix this bc it's built on top of all your bull".

4. "All I ever asked for is just a tiny bit of want I want with someone else. It's always something.  I give up". (Pretty sure a guy she briefly "dated" broke it off with her right before our last fight. Of course, she wouldn't tell me).

I think the better question... .is what do we do when these things are said to us.

Thoughts? 

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anxiety5
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2015, 09:25:15 PM »

Ah Omissions.

This was my favorite. We were going to hang out and she just stopped answering her phone all night until the next day. Very strange. I was sincerely worried about her. I then found out later she was with the guy she cheated on me with when our relationship first started.

Why didn't you tell me you were with him? You would have gotten angry at me.

Why didn't you answer your phone or texts all night? You would have asked where I was and if I told you you would have gotten mad at me.

Why did you not answer your door when I stopped by because I was worried about you? I heard you knock.

Why didn't you come to the door? You would have asked why I stopped answering my phone, and didn't respond to you, then you would have asked me who I was with and you would have gotten angry at me.

My.Mind.Blown.

The only way I could get her to ever feel empathy was to contort the situation and put her as me. So I said:

If I had cheated on you with someone, then you texted me and called me when we were supposed to eat together and I never responded to you all night, and you were worried about me so you came to my house and I didn't answer the door despite telling you I heard you. And then you found out I was hanging out with the person I cheated on you with what would you do? I would probably beat your door down, flip out and dump you.

Mind.Blown.Again.

Me to her: You not only admits you would have been mad, you not only admits it was enough to end the relationship. You tell me you would have flipped out? Yet you are angry at ME? for my HYPOTHETICAL reactions (which never happened) because of your omission?

Her: Stop beating me down.

And this my friends was it for me. Sent her at text saying, hey I don't hate you, I just have more self respect than to be treated this way. And therefore I'm finished.

And I changed my number.

It's less about the guy she was with, less about anything other than the dynamic of the above conversation. It was like this 24x7. Totally illogical BS, backed up with hypocritical and contradictory nonsensical points which offer no resolution other than to shift and deflect responsibility.

My God. I can't imagine another day with that toxic nonsense.

Any of this strike a chord with you all?
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Mr.Downtrodden
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2015, 10:31:46 PM »

Yes.

i had a very short relationship with someone who turns out is a BPD waif, tho I had no idea at the time.  i thought she was under extreme duress from a breakup with a BF.  They were engaged.  She had carried on a relationship with me (long distance, until I finally met and then spent time with her after many delays and excuses on her part).

She claimed to be single, yet she led two lives.  Her ex didn't know about me, nor I him.  I had given up on her for good (got involved with another BPD gal).  She showed up on my doorstep, looking sorrowful, to offer a heartfelt apology for everything.  I should have slammed the door in her face, but, I was vulnerable to her charms.

She convinced me her ex was an obsessed psycho that he had beaten up guys who dated / gotten involved with his ex wife who had left him.  She wanted "us" from the get-go but noted we should be cautious at first.  She was going to court to get a restraining order against the guy. Funny thing - the guy actually called me a month before she apologized on my doorstep unannounced (she had to fly 1000 miles to my house!) He painted a very different picture, calling her our "mutual friend".  I should have listened to him. He seemed like a nice guy who was totally heartbroken that his GF would be carrying on with another guy for over a year. he had no idea.

But, after her apology I forgot his side of the story.  She swayed me like a BPD waif can.  She said that her ex was not taking "no" for an answer.  "If you do not hear from me every day, there is something wrong."  Implying that her ex would be threatening her or some bad outcome.  Well, that day did come, she failed to reply to several texts, missed our nightly chat.  By 3AM, my text plea to just reply that she is OK failed to illicit any response.  Nothing.  Being so far away, I was worried sick.

By 10 AM after being up all night, I had gone from worried to being irate.  Especially when  she cheerily replied at2PM saying that she simply "forgot to look at her phone." Yeah, right.  I later found out she had spent time with a guy that night and that she was planning her move to be with him while putting me out to pasture.

I then replied that I should trust my gut like i had when i spoke to her ex months earlier and the blame shifted to me. Deflection.  She got all hissy when we spoke on the phone the NEXT DAY (she was too tired to deal with the situation that night), saying she wasn't gonna deal with having to answer questions like "Who were you with?" Where are you going?"  "I'm not gonna deal with that s--t, she coldly scolded.  Made me feel like i was supposed to feel guilty. A 180 degree about face from the sweet denmure girl who expressed sorrow for everything only a month and a half earlier.

Right then, I knew it was over, if it was ever anything.  I realized i was only being used because I spoke with her ex and gave him full disclosure plus all e-mails she and i shared.  Used for payback for messing up her relationship, spilling the beans directly to her ex. It was apparent she did not want to dump him like she claimed; he earned a ton of $$$, spoiled her, and no way could I ever compete.  Her words said otherwise at the start (I don;t want nice things, i want love and emotional intimacy), but her actions proved her waif tendencies. I decided to play along with her game for a few more weeks before going full NC, and refusing to answer texts like "worried about you... "

i hope she rots in hell with her new supply, a wise-guy smart-___ who I also met, someone old enough to be her grand-dad.  
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