Sigh. It's either watch him have a fling or end it

[braveSun]

@MissyM   It makes a whole lot of sense. BTW, I'm familiar with a lot of the SA recovery terms, all good with that.   

Yes to being back with your intuition! 

I feel so much for this one...

I can relate about the words. My partner is very good with words. She can even improvise amazing poems. But the follow through is typical BPD. In a small scale, I did something similar to you, regarding 'the next step'.

I used some of the communication tools I learned here for doing it, and it went much better than I expected. At least for the moment.

I must admit that I felt like a maverick doing that. It looks like this was a welcome idea, because since that conversation, things have gradually calmed down to a nice peacefulness.

But I must watch for my own wishful thinking though.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Haye]

@MaybeSo, thank you for your comments. Very much insight and very true in my SO's case. Part of his diagnose is early childhood attachment problem. His psychologist says something went horribly wrong already when he an infant child; the guess is that his mom had a severe depression and his father was prone to uncontrolled aggression and physical discipline that imo was basically violent beatings. He learnt early not to trust anyone, how to be lonely. Reading your explanation on attachment... .Him and his childhood with severe anxieties and deprression in pre-school age, dissociating... .The love attachement pictured him exactly :'-(. And like your husband, my SO genuinly means well and doesn't understand why the girls he is helping get all upset and start to expect stuff like moving together, or whatever. He is aware that there is a pattern, and that the women end up extremely hurt but doesn't quite get how that happens and isn't too willing to stop.

Someone asked me if I'm okey with my SO having emotional connections outside our r/s. I'm not. I struggle with it. Most of the time (in this relationship) he has had someone on the side, someone with an emotional connection (that has varied), sometimes also physical. At the beginning there was several actually, but they slowly dwindled and he began to see that his helping was also ruining them. For about a year he only had one same ex, but she went NC last fall – couldn't bare the LDR love and me sharing most of his timeanymore. Changed the equation I guess? For a while he did manage without anyone else to attend to.

I've been looking at things closely and also looking at the mirror.

Reallized I should dedicate time in taking better care of me. Years of studying, getting married and having kids and divorcing etc has meant I've lost connection to most of my friends. I need to do some work to re-connect with friends, and even try to find new friends. I'm a bit too alone which makes me more vulnarable. I'm not a very tough person as it is, I'm quite emotional actually... .Btu I guess what I'm going trhough with him probably hurts most people anyway.

I've talked with my SO and tried to explain to him gently that his need for his absolute freedom, without any strings, is simply too much for me to bear. I think what is most difficult for me is that when I wake up, for a new day, I have no idea what is my value or place in his life is. For some time is all pull, i'm the best thing that ever happened to him, someone who loves so much and the next thing I know he wants to move on.

I know this was easier when we weren't living together; him having this girlies on the side bothered me yes (what he was doing to them bothered A LOT, they all though they were the only ones), but I wasn't face to face with what goes one every day. I wasn't face to face with the changing place and value, either. The ups and the downs were there, but not in-my-face.

He said he is not sure if he needs an absolute freedom, regardless of the price, but says he honestly doesn't know what he wants. Compromizes are something he doesn't to. Said he cannot offer me (or anyone else I guess) a stable relationship (which is something I know and live with).

Freedom to go and wander and explore life and new people is something he loves.

I'm afraid this is something we can't work through. He talked about his issues, the feelings etc. He seems reluctant in modifying his behaviour – i know it's difficult, with his background and disorders, but not impossible. It's about will I guess. Discussed taking our r/s  down to a level we both deal with. Which I think would be being friends who meet maybe once or twice a year and occasionally write a bit.  Told him that i'm not dumping him right now, but doubt I'll manage more than a month or two. .

I must say this has been so far the weirdest and emotionally challenging r/s I have had. And the most difficult love i've ever known. I have had many happy moments with him, I don't regret being with him this far... But I do pray to all gods I know to keep me safe from more BPD's for the rest of my life.

[MaybeSo]

missy m, this has been the weirdest relationship of my life, too. we currently do not live together and I'm in more friend mode with him these days.

p & c, I agree that amends are an important part of healing. I can't really imagine maintaining contact with a person who behaves in a hurtful manner and never feels remorse or makes amends. my partner feels deep shame at times and does make amends.

but, he's an addict. the road to recovery is almost never a straight line. People slip into old patterns, people relapse. so even with sincere and heart filled amends, it's still complicated. but, it does my heart good to know he has clear moments. of remorse and accountability. with the mood dysregulation and splitting, so it's not permanent, but I know he is sincere when he is in a remorseful place. still have to take care of myself and accept the reality of his limitations. his ability to take ownership got better when I got better at ownership, too.

if he was never vulnerable or remorseful... .and just blamed everything on me all the time , is be liking reacting in kind and blaming him... .yes, that would be toxic. that would require some serious distance IMHO. perhaps permanent nc would be the best bet for me if that were the case.

[MissyM]

if he was never vulnerable or remorseful... .and just blamed everything on me all the time , is be liking reacting in kind and blaming him... .yes, that would be toxic. that would require some serious distance IMHO. perhaps permanent nc would be the best bet for me if that were the case.

Yes, that makes sense to me.  One of the main things to look for is some consistency.  If 95% of the time I am getting remorse and vulnerability and 5% I am getting some slips in behavior that seems normal but full on relapse is something different.  Fortunately, my dBPDh has an incredible sponsor and is really working his program.  I have actually switched my sponsor to an alanon sponsor who seems to really get personal accountability for me, too.  All steps in the right direction.

[braveSun]

Yes, I am grateful for this thread. It makes sense to my situation as well. I see better now. My SO did feel vulnerable and remorseful many times. She also did slip many times. I had a process in mind, but there has been many detours. That's difficult to not get confused.

Like MaybeSo and MissyM point out, I am looking into the pattern and recently decided to request a 30 days period of NC for my own reasons. The slips were too many. Her T welcomed this and my SO accepted.

The idea was for both of us to work on our own issues. To detach a bit so we can de-emmesh. She is in treatment center right now. So it was a good time to have some kind of therapeutic separation. Specifically for me, I needed to get off that rollercoaster and let myself have my own emotions. Take that time to let go, let it all out, be me. And to sort out what I will accept and what I will not forward on.

This has been a good thing so far, even though it is very difficult for me and for her to do (the separation). I felt it was either do that, or end it all. I've experienced a lot of fears, anxiety, grief, anger. I see it's normal.

Now I can see how the SA and the BPD intersect. Mainly it's for my own understanding, because for her she says it's the same thing. In her words, her SA is a manifestation of her deep insecurities. Same core issues.

[patientandclear]

MissyM, I really feel for you. Your guy sounds very very much like my ex (more so than most stories I've seen here). We had a great r/s according to us both. But he wanted to be free to explore other people. And I just can't be that vulnerable with someone who, like you say, is constantly changing his mind about what and who I even am to him. I too found I could not wake up every day with that question.

MaybeSo, thanks for outlining the difference btwn our response when there are amends and remorse, though recovery is rocky and non linear; and situations (like mine) where there is zero insight and about 98% projection that the shifts are all completely fine, and either inexplicable or somehow our fault.

Hard stuff.

[braveSun]

it does my heart good to know he has clear moments. of remorse and accountability. with the mood dysregulation and splitting, so it's not permanent, but I know he is sincere when he is in a remorseful place. still have to take care of myself and accept the reality of his limitations. his ability to take ownership got better when I got better at ownership, too.

MaybeSo, I totally agree to what you are saying. I feel inclined to tell my SO that for the relationship to go on, I will need to have my own small periods of NC. For her to accept that, as a part of my needs in the relationship.

I also had a boundary of NC right after a slip. For me it was too much and I would feel too much anger, reject her. 

And the language she used to tell me when she is feeling 'challenged' got very important with me. I wanted the truth, but not too many details. Because of the splitting, she would use a very different language when she would feel like she might be acting out. It always took me by surprise, how she could just tell me those things, 'knowing' (in my non's experiential) that it hurted me to hear her saying those things ( I had told her many times, and she had been remorseful many times already).

And the point of her having an active support network, outside of the T office, is also something I needed for me to feel safe in the relationship.

Those are examples of boundaries I set as a result of my own work as a partner of SA (POSA). The approach has given me valuable tools, but when I got to the BPD part, it got confusing for me.

Recently she told me she did not feel safe with me, because she said that I was avoidant. Of course I feel avoidant because she had just betrayed me. I also have too much anger with the cumulative effects of the one day betrayal/the other day remorse and vulnerability. This causes me a lot of grief and this time off helps with that. Now she knows that I know that the splitting is a part of her condition.

If we are moving forward with the confirmation of the relationship, we will have to sort this one out. Thank you for the concepts you shared. I can see myself not returning her love the way she desires, and her feeling unwanted because of that. That makes sense. I can 'validate her', I certainly can include this dimension, when it's not appropriate for me to return the feelings she has on the spot.

But I very much want to look into this now, how my PTSD symptoms affect me, than her in this way. 

I welcome your comments.

   

[123Phoebe]

Hi Haye   How are things going with you today?  I apologize for butting into your thread, as you've mentioned that your relationship didn't have the same quality as mine initially.

I want to quickly respond to braveSun's question:

So looking back, having actually spent "real time" together, building up to where we are now, yes, I can say that we were both a tad bit off when it all began.

So did you end up working on your issues, each one on his/her stuff?

Yes, I started working on my issues with a lot of trial and error.  I've not breathed a word about my suspicions to my partner.  He knows I find psychology fascinating, he thinks it's a lot of mumbo-jumbo, yet is highly intelligent and is super aware of his moods, other's moods and so on... .

I don't approach him in psych-terms.  I own my issues in layman-terms/actions, try to face them head on and by doing that he has owned many of his.  He'll still distance himself a little here and there, but not to the point of boundary-breaking stuff and not for more than a day or 2, while always staying in some sort of contact.  I can live with this.  He has a demanding job and needs time to himself.  I have a demanding job and need time to myself, too.  

In the beginning, I would blame him for taking/needing space.  It didn't occur to me to ask myself why I need my own space when I do, or to ask him if sometimes he needs a little space?  I immediately jumped to the worst possible conclusion that the reason he didn't want to see me must be because he's seeing someone else!  And then I'd be all standoffish, then freakout about that, thinking that maybe he thinks I don't like him now, so then I would cling and want to clear the air.  Just so much unnecessary drama He'd do stuff like that, too, so I'm not giving him a total pass, it's just that the only part of our relationship that I have any semblance of control over is my own.  So I try really hard to own what is mine.

And MaybeSo, you rock!

[EaglesJuju]

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