Brought kids home after only 2 hours of visitation - huh?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

We have 2 young kids.  Ex took them for visitation today.  He lives w/his parents and brought them there.  He has them one overnight every other weekend.  He seemed a little quiet and hostile but that's usual; there were no fights or anything when he took them this morning.  They were supposed to all go to a show this weekend and he had been telling them about it on the phone for days.  So he brought them to his place, then called me suddenly 2 hours later and sounded ready to throw up.  He said he was unable to care for them this weekend, and was bringing them home.  I asked if he was sure he was able to drive them and he said yes.  I said it was fine.  (Luckily I didn't make plans - and I go out of my way to make sure he knows he can cancel or call any time.)

But he is mentally ill, which generally comes out when something triggers him (someone upsets him, a medical or school thing for the kids often triggers him too.)  When triggered he doesn't put them first - seems not to care about them.  Before we got divorced he was angry at me and put our then-baby on the edge of the bed and stuff to scare me into thinking he'd fall.  (Sorry for those who've heard this story)  He also told the cops I abused them (that didn't get far.)  Soo I am always nervous about his behavior.

Bottom line is that he brought them home an hour later.  So he only had them 2 hours today instead of keeping them til tomorrow.  They seem perfectly fine.  I asked them how it was and they just had nothing to say - don't know why they were brought home early, they seem unconcerned.  They are little so they don't say much.

When ex dropped them off, I asked if he had a fight with his family (it happens) or if he was sick.  He wouldn't say.  He seemed ok. 

I never got a psych eval and he is seeing two shrinks.  We had a PC and are about to start with a new one.  She's not officially ours yet but we are seeing her next Mon.  Then he has the kids again that coming weekend (2 weeks from now.)

My question:  I am wondering if I should not say anything.  If he did this for a reason, like he was having delusions or something, I'd like to know about it.  On the other hand, I don't want to penalize him for doing the RIGHT thing, bringing them home safe and sound and simply telling me he coudln't care for them this weekend.  I tend to get stymied because of not wanting to make things worse instead of better.  But then I don't do anything, and maybe that's wrong too.

Usually he tells me in advance when he's sick or can't care for them, and it's fine.  I never give the 3rd degree.  But it is strange to come, take them all that way, and bring them home 2 hours later when everything seemed fine this morning.

Should I do anything, mention it to the PC, send him an email, let it go, or what?  I am wondering if long-term there should be more monitoring of him.

[momtara]

We have 2 young kids.  Ex took them for visitation today.  He lives w/his parents and brought them there.  He has them one overnight every other weekend.  He seemed a little quiet and hostile but that's usual; there were no fights or anything when he took them this morning.  They were supposed to all go to a show this weekend and he had been telling them about it on the phone for days.  So he brought them to his place, then called me suddenly 2 hours later and sounded ready to throw up.  He said he was unable to care for them this weekend, and was bringing them home.  I asked if he was sure he was able to drive them and he said yes.  I said it was fine.  (Luckily I didn't make plans - and I go out of my way to make sure he knows he can cancel or call any time.)

But he is mentally ill, which generally comes out when something triggers him (someone upsets him, a medical or school thing for the kids often triggers him too.)  When triggered he doesn't put them first - seems not to care about them.  Before we got divorced he was angry at me and put our then-baby on the edge of the bed and stuff to scare me into thinking he'd fall.  (Sorry for those who've heard this story)  He also told the cops I abused them (that didn't get far.)  Soo I am always nervous about his behavior.

Bottom line is that he brought them home an hour later.  So he only had them 2 hours today instead of keeping them til tomorrow.  They seem perfectly fine.  I asked them how it was and they just had nothing to say - don't know why they were brought home early, they seem unconcerned.  They are little so they don't say much.

When ex dropped them off, I asked if he had a fight with his family (it happens) or if he was sick.  He wouldn't say.  He seemed ok. 

I never got a psych eval and he is seeing two shrinks.  We had a PC and are about to start with a new one.  She's not officially ours yet but we are seeing her next Mon.  Then he has the kids again that coming weekend (2 weeks from now.)

My question:  I am wondering if I should not say anything.  If he did this for a reason, like he was having delusions or something, I'd like to know about it.  On the other hand, I don't want to penalize him for doing the RIGHT thing, bringing them home safe and sound and simply telling me he coudln't care for them this weekend.  I tend to get stymied because of not wanting to make things worse instead of better.  But then I don't do anything, and maybe that's wrong too.

Usually he tells me in advance when he's sick or can't care for them, and it's fine.  I never give the 3rd degree.  But it is strange to come, take them all that way, and bring them home 2 hours later when everything seemed fine this morning.

Should I do anything, mention it to the PC, send him an email, let it go, or what?  I am wondering if long-term there should be more monitoring of him.

[KateCat]

How puzzling.

Do you have a means of communicating with his parents? They might not know what was going on today either, but I wonder if your ex's suspicions and upsets are now triggered by his parents more than by you.

Would they likely be allies for you (and maybe "informants" if his mental health declined? Or would they maybe not notice? (I think paranoia can be a little hard to see, as people suffering from it can appear "a little quiet and hostile" without disclosing what's bothering them, at least in my experience.)

The fact that he wouldn't tell you why he brought them home so suddenly would make me suspect a mental health issue rather than a sudden illness, in this case. 

I'm not a parent, so you can take my thought that a watch-and-wait approach might be enough for now with a big grain of salt.

[momtara]

I had the same thought about his parents.  He is very sensitive to me talking to them and has told me NOT to do it.  His mother is kind of a shrinking violet and would be unlikely to contact me because she's afraid he'll be angry at her.

But this time I did call her, after he dropped them off.  I debated it, then did it.  She said nothing was wrong with the children and they were wonderful.  She also said there was no fight.  She asked what he told me.  I said he didn't.  I said on several occasions that if she had anything to tell me, I would keep it confidential.  I also asked her not to tell him I called, if she could help it.  I put the kids on because they wanted to talk to her.

She said nothing.  She just kept saying it was nothing about the kids and they're fine.

I really would like her to tell me if he ever seems not himself, angry, etc.  I just don't know that she'd go over his head.  In the end, she protects her son like I protect my kids.

But you had a good thought in that regard.

[momtara]

So I got a text from him saying, "You shouldn't be calling my parents."

Then tonight he called and asked if I wanted to talk.  I just said if there was something he should tell me, he could tell me.  He said, "How do I know you won't tell your lawyer?" 

He said it was nothing with the kids, just him.

Sounds like maybe an episode?  His parents were both there to help with the kids, so I can't imagine why he'd have to bring them all the way home just for some minor ache he might be having or whatever.

I find it troubling that they would have let him drive them home if they or he had a concern.  They should have driven with him.

He said if I emailed him and promise I won't tell my lawyer, he will tell me.  Wondering if I should do that.  Might be worth it to have the info... .

[KateCat]

I guess I wouldn't be able to resist hearing it from him, whatever it might be. (And I guess I would suspect some sort of fears regarding his parents.)

[livednlearned]

I wonder if it was psychosis? I know that's not exactly a black/white clinical term, but I felt that I could tell when it was happening to my ex. It's hard to describe.

But there were also times when I felt like he was two people, where one side of him seemed to recognize that the other was not acting or thinking right. A few times when he was medium drunk, he would talk about not wanting to drink too much because it made him talk to himself. So I think he wanted to blame it on the alcohol, except I experienced him like that when he wasn't drunk.

I don't know. Mental illness is hard to understand.

The fact he doesn't want you to tell your lawyer, or talk to his parents, just sounds strange.

At the very least, though, he returned the kids and nothing bad happened.

[KateCat]

I'm glad to hear livednlearned's thoughts, because I usually assume my own experience is more extreme than that of others. But I'm wondering about psychosis too.

My husband definitely does not want members of his family "talking" to each other. His position on who exactly is to be feared is probably not entirely stable. Could it be that you are presently in the position of being "most trustworthy" in his mind?

I think it's great news that you're able to hear from the kids' grandma. Maybe she's intimidated by her son too, but she's just a natural to help make sure the kids are safe, right?

[momtara]

My ex's parents know what happened - I'm sure he had to tell them a reason why he brought the kids home after 2 hours.  They were going to all take the kids to a train show thing.  

His mom may not pick up the phone next time I call, for all I know.  She went and told him I called when I kind of encouraged her not to.  

I think they would choose not getting involved over doing what's right and tipping me off if my ex was having some problem.  They do care about the kids obviously and I guess they trusted him to take them home, but it's concerning to me.

Our parent coordinator is not supposed to talk to his doctors, but I'm wondering if I should set my foot down at this point, and say if she can't, I'm going back to court.

Tempted to email him to ask what happened, but is that just engaging him?  Is promising not to tell my lawyer dumb?

[KateCat]

I think they would choose not getting involved over doing what's right and tipping me off if my ex was having some problem.

Gee, I hope not. Is there any chance your ex overheard the conversation between his mother and you? (Because if not, it does sound as though she is not a reliable set of ears and eyes for you.)

[momtara]

No, he wasn't home yet.

She may have just told him that I called to let the kids talk to her, but I dunno. 

She's reliable in terms of helping him care for the kids, but no, I wouldn't rely on her as my eyes and ears.

[david]

On a positive note, if it was psychosis he seemed to be aware and wanted the children safe so he returned them. He knew they would be safe if returned so he does see you as safe.

My ex doesn't like her behaviors brought to light either. I believe it is because she knows what is going on is not quite right and she doesn't want everyone to find out. She would rather live in denial then get real help. It's shame, self loathing or something similar.