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Author Topic: Has religion played a hand in helping anyone else's SO? [Christian Discussion]  (Read 462 times)
Cole
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« on: January 13, 2015, 03:08:15 PM »

I have to admit, I have struggled with posting this. Religion tends to be a touchy subject. But I am going to put it out there.

A little history in this respect: I am a lifetime Catholic. My wife was brought up in various churches and excitedly converted when we were married. She became the religious leader of our family until the BPD and bipolar took hold. After her affair, she struggled with her faith. When Father A. who had helped her so much to deal with what she had done passed away, she quit going. That was 6 years ago.    

My wife has been away from the Church since. In typical BPD fashion, she thinks everyone there is better than her and she does not belong. Lately, she has been saying she is unlovable by anyone and has no self esteem, also typical BPD thought patterns.

She has talked to our new priest a few times. He is awesome. And Sunday she wanted to go to mass. I stayed home with a sick son while she went with our daughter. When she came home she was beaming. She told me that after communion she broke down and started crying. She asked for a sign from God and it hit her that if Jesus was willing to die for her, then she must not be as bad as she thinks she is. She must be lovable, otherwise His death was in vain. From the moment she came home she has been happy, energetic, and acting like the woman I married for the first time in years. We had a very frank discussion that afternoon about what it will take to stop us from getting a divorce this year, basically me laying down what has to happen, setting a file date,  and making sure she understood I was serious. She was level, calm, and indicated she wants to fix our marriage.  

Like the blind, deaf, and lepers who were cured through their faith, she has found in Him some relief from her illness. I do not know how long it will last, but I will encourage her to continue down this road.

Today she told me that she feels better than she has in years and healed. I have to take that with a grain of salt, since pwBPD tend to live in the moment and we never know what tomorrow will bring. But she does seem sincere.

Has religion played a hand in helping anyone else's SO? Did it last?
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2015, 03:19:51 PM »

Interesting topic.  My wife is Jewish, but not practicing.  She does identify with her heritage, and has recently tried to rekindle with some of it.  When she does, she is happier.  Not so much from a faith aspect, but from an identity aspect.  When she identifies herself as Jewish, she is someone.  When she is just another person, she doesn't know who she is.

She seems to have an axe to grind against Christians in general.  Basically labeling all Christians the same way.  I think this has to do with core shame, because Christians would consider much of what she has done in life as "sins".  But 99% of this is her projecting her own fears of being persecuted.  I don't think anyone has actually told her recently that she is going to hell Smiling (click to insert in post)

She is active in AA and other 12 step programs.  Those programs are basically her spiritual guidance.  When she is active in those programs, she is happier.  When she strays, she is miserable.

Regarding your wife - I am sure you are pleased to see your wife's changed attitude.  But, I would caution you to take what you have today and have no expectations for this change to continue.  I've seen so many "this is what will save me" new things come and go over the past two years, that I now know that every new thing will fade and sour.  Doesn't matter what it is.

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enlighten me
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2015, 03:26:01 PM »

Firstly I will say I am not religeous so I apologise if I offend as it is not my intention. Though I am not religeous I have a strong moral compass and believe you should treat everyone with respect and compassion.

Both of my uBPD exs are religeous to an extent. My exwife has read lots of spiritual books and thought budhism was the salvation she needed. It didnt last.

My exgf went on about religion a lot. She wasnt comfortable with me attending my sons christening as I am not religious. She attends christmas services and harvest festivals but apart from that doesnt act the good christian. With her its almost fashionable.

I believe a lot of pwBPD see religion as their last hope. The fact that they have horrible thoughts or do bad things will be forgiven and they can find happiness and peace in heaven. This must be an appealing concept and would go a little way to explain the high suicide rates amoungst pwBPD. PwBPD will jump from one hope to the next whether its a new diet, new partner, new hobby whatever in the hope of finding happines but one thing I noticed with both my exs was that they had this religious hope which always lurked in the background.

As I said I am not wishing to offend anyones beliefs just expressing my view on my exs behaviour.
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Cole
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2015, 03:29:47 PM »

Interesting topic.  My wife is Jewish, but not practicing.  She does identify with her heritage, and has recently tried to rekindle with some of it.  When she does, she is happier.  Not so much from a faith aspect, but from an identity aspect.  When she identifies herself as Jewish, she is someone.  When she is just another person, she doesn't know who she is.

She seems to have an axe to grind against Christians in general.  Basically labeling all Christians the same way.  I think this has to do with core shame, because Christians would consider much of what she has done in life as "sins".  But 99% of this is her projecting her own fears of being persecuted.  I don't think anyone has actually told her recently that she is going to hell Smiling (click to insert in post)

She is active in AA and other 12 step programs.  Those programs are basically her spiritual guidance.  When she is active in those programs, she is happier.  When she strays, she is miserable.

Regarding your wife - I am sure you are pleased to see your wife's changed attitude.  But, I would caution you to take what you have today and have no expectations for this change to continue.  I've seen so many "this is what will save me" new things come and go over the past two years, that I now know that every new thing will fade and sour.  :)oesn't matter what it is.

Two things I find interesting about your post and which I have to agree.

First is the happiness and sense of self they get when they can identify with a group. I think that is true for all of us, but it is particularly strong for the pwBPD who struggles with identity.  

Second is your caution not to have any expectations it will last. She will do one of two things: drop off after a week or take it very seriously and get thoroughly entrenched for a long period of time. I am prepared for the first, hoping for the latter.

She has never really left the church in her mind, just been too ashamed to go. I don't think it is a case of running there as a last hope as much as wanting something she used to very much enjoy.

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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2015, 03:38:35 PM »

Mine would dive in very seriously... .but it was generally short lived and seemed to be related to who he was hanging around.

Getting very serious into religious 12 step program... .claimed to have a conversion experience and said had never really known god before... .is into about every bible study the church offers for a while...

Less than a year later... .getting into meditation trying to help ptsd... .has another "profound experience" and is suddenly a wiccan. The announcement post on facebook uses almost identical wording to the christian experience.

Has since been back to christian and then back to wiccan... .

I sorta want to find some buddists or something to throw into his life... .just to see what happens... .  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Cole
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2015, 03:43:46 PM »

Firstly I will say I am not religeous so I apologise if I offend as it is not my intention. Though I am not religeous I have a strong moral compass and believe you should treat everyone with respect and compassion.

Both of my uBPD exs are religeous to an extent. My exwife has read lots of spiritual books and thought budhism was the salvation she needed. It didnt last.

My exgf went on about religion a lot. She wasnt comfortable with me attending my sons christening as I am not religious. She attends christmas services and harvest festivals but apart from that doesnt act the good christian. With her its almost fashionable.

I believe a lot of pwBPD see religion as their last hope. The fact that they have horrible thoughts or do bad things will be forgiven and they can find happiness and peace in heaven. This must be an appealing concept and would go a little way to explain the high suicide rates amoungst pwBPD. PwBPD will jump from one hope to the next whether its a new diet, new partner, new hobby whatever in the hope of finding happines but one thing I noticed with both my exs was that they had this religious hope which always lurked in the background.

As I said I am not wishing to offend anyones beliefs just expressing my view on my exs behaviour.

No offense taken. It would be a boring world if we all liked vanilla ice cream.

I do believe you are correct that hoping religion will solve all your problems is a dangerous game. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu... .none teach that life will be perfect just because you show up. Religion offers tools to deal with life's adversities, not eliminate them.  

If this was something new I would be more worried. But it is more of a return to something she used to have and misses in her life.
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2015, 03:50:35 PM »



I see a benefit in religion as something that can provide a moral code and a community and a routine to family life such as holidays and a positive self image. A relationship to God can go either way. We have discussed this in 12 step groups where some people grew up in abusive and unforgiving homes, and their concept of God was formed on this. People with low self images who have trouble liking themselves can also think that they are worthless and unforgivable to God. Part of the 12 step program includes a higher power, but also the idea that they are worthy.

Theologically, the idea of a God that loves you no matter what is probably a healing thing. If this priest helped your wife feel as if she is lovable because Jesus loves her no matter what, then this may help her with core shame. I could see where Confession would be helpful with this too. The Jewish concept of forgiveness also includes the idea of apologizing to others you may have harmed as part of the teshuva ( forgiveness ) although of course, God is still a loving and forgiving God even if someone is not able to do this because of mental illness or other issues. This kind of reconciliation may be harder on a pwBPD. The idea of apologizing is also part of the 9th step because it also helps with core shame. It may help to know that the Hebrew word for "sin" is "chet" meaning missing the mark, going off track, not the feeling of worthlessness and hopelessness a pwBPD could feel. Most religious traditions have the idea of human self worth, and a path to wholeness and forgiveness that could be beneficial if the pwBPD could see it that way. However, in some homes that were not emotionally healthy, religion can be misused as a shaming or controlling factor, and since many people with PD's were raised with shame, it may be hard for them to feel a benefit.

I'm sure the acceptance and love from the priest and an accepting community has an impact. Maybe it is a good thing, but remember with fluctuating moods this "high point" may not last. I wish there was a miracle cure for our marital issues, but it's been a long time since Jesus cured problems just like that, and the rest of us seem to have to work a bit harder on our issues ever since.

I hope it stays good for you.
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 05:06:58 PM »

The problem as I see it with BPD and religion is the danger of idolisation. We all know how easily a pwBPD will attach to someone if they are nice to them. If they gain valisation and are told they are good then they may form an attachement but is it for the right reasons?
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2015, 05:40:45 PM »

 

I'm Baptist... moderate to conservative in viewpoint. 

I'm convinced that my wife and my shared religious values have kept us together... as in the only reason we stayed at certain points.

I also think I kept "our marriage problems" in the church far too long.

Now that I know better... .the pastors meant well... but didn't know what they were dealing with.

I should have implemented boundaries... .not "died to self and my wife"

I like these discussions... looking forward to more posts.

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Cole
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2015, 10:32:24 AM »

I also think I kept "our marriage problems" in the church far too long.

Now that I know better... .the pastors meant well... but didn't know what they were dealing with.

We have been fortunate in that our wise elderly priest understood what he could help with, but also steered her toward a professional counselor for the things which he knew were outside his expertise.

Now that she feels comfortable enough to return, I am hoping our new priest will help her along in finding a new T. He used to be a T before entering seminary, so maybe he can help her find someone she can trust. 

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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2015, 01:59:00 PM »

I am a Christian and devoted.  My exBPDgf claims she is also a christian (both of us protestant).  When we first started dating we always talked about God.  I started to read the bible with her.  We went to church together. 

But she did all of that to please me.  It was her way to get me to find her attractive and invest myself in her.

Once our relation matured and she was no longer trying to seduce me she quickly forgot her faith.  No more talking about God, no desire for her to read the bible; no more wanting to go to Church.

You have to be aware of what their motivation is behind the behavior.  And pray for the best that they are sincere.
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2015, 04:49:19 PM »

 

So... what happens when you ask her to sit down and read the Bible with you?

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2015, 11:34:48 AM »

So... what happens when you ask her to sit down and read the Bible with you?

At first she enjoyed it.  She acted interested.  She even said she was learning things when we read together.  But months later if i did not bring it up she never acted interested in reading or going to church.  I think it was just her façade of portraying what i wanted her to be.  It was always me to introduce the subject. 
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2015, 12:38:37 PM »

So... what happens when you ask her to sit down and read the Bible with you?

At first she enjoyed it.  She acted interested.  She even said she was learning things when we read together.  But months later if i did not bring it up she never acted interested in reading or going to church.  I think it was just her façade of portraying what i wanted her to be.  It was always me to introduce the subject. 

Ok... .that's not so bad.  So... .you are still introducing the subject... correct?  How often do you guys read the Bible together?
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2015, 01:14:08 PM »

uBPDw and I are both Christian protestants.  She sporadically attends a bible study and seems to take occasional comfort in her relationship with God, but her outlook on life varies greatly depending on what emotions she is feeling at any given moment.  She could be in church and happy on Sunday morning and then dysregulated and threatening suicide by Sunday night after several hours of drinking... .I just never know how she'll behave at any given time. 

The past couple of weeks, she has been much more self-aware than usual.  Today while we were discussing topics raised at her bible study, she said something breakthrough-ish to the effect of "one of my problems is that I've been praying that God would soothe my emotions when they get out of control, but what I really need to pray for continuously is that God would change ME and my underlying issues to really address the problem."  I encouraged that concept enthusiastically.  I'm irrationally optimistic.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2015, 11:33:54 AM »

So... what happens when you ask her to sit down and read the Bible with you?

At first she enjoyed it.  She acted interested.  She even said she was learning things when we read together.  But months later if i did not bring it up she never acted interested in reading or going to church.  I think it was just her façade of portraying what i wanted her to be.  It was always me to introduce the subject. 

Ok... .that's not so bad.  So... .you are still introducing the subject... correct?  How often do you guys read the Bible together?

We have stopped our relationship.  We no longer see each other.  But if we had continued i would still read the Bible with her and pray with her.
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2015, 04:20:49 PM »

I would say YES and NO.  We are a conservative Christian family as well and I think for my part it is the reason we are still together.  Along with a strong desire to break away from both of our family of origin brokenness that seems to pick at us every day. 


For the YES part I think that if they have an HONEST relationship with God that is just skewed by BPD I think that the relationship helps to a great extent ground them if they are mild(mine is).  There are things in our faith that are hard, fast and true, but it is not those things that usually affect my wife.  For me in this it has allowed me to push through the hard times with supernatural spiritual strength.  I have thought about leaving multiple times and have literally had a loaded gun in my hand a few times as well.  The thing that keeps me from leaving or pulling the trigger is that God put me here for a reason and that is to break the chain of brokenness and to be able to take care of my children as best as I can.

For the NO part, It gives them all the rules to judge you by every time you mess up.  As well as all for all of the grey areas that can just happen to provide fodder for every imagined slight. In my case she could leave our church, disrespect me and our friends tell me I am unsaved, not the leader of our home and on and on it went.  For everything I brought to light about how she was acting out of line she fired back at me with righteous indignation with ten things I did wrong or wasn't doing good enough by her standards.  That sets into motion(if you are like me)a reactionary defense because I would call myself a pretty honorable guy.  This is the hardest part to deal with being told over and over that you are the root of the problem, when you know that to not be true.  Any regular guy would defend himself.  You can understand how that feels having to deal with an affair on her part that I didn’t find out till 8 years after the fact, then finding out about BPD and dealing with knowing I had been emotionally abused for over 10 years.  It's hard really hard.  Sometimes I feel like I should leave because she is just going to spaz out again.  It's always on the horizon always the black cloud in the distance. 

I just recently last 6 mo or so stopped making it worse by not fighting just walking away or ignoring it.  I have found that it snuffs out the flame before it turns into a raging wildfire.  She stomps off all pissed off and then I go to her a little bit later about something totally unrelated and she is normal again... .Like it didn’t even happen.  She has since returned to our church(but different campus) and seems to be making progress but... .I'm always waiting for the next thing that disregulates her.  I keep my focus though and pray for more good days than bad.

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