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Author Topic: I think our marriage T thinks I am the main problem  (Read 442 times)
Notwendy
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« on: January 14, 2015, 06:01:04 AM »

Which in a way is terrifying to me to think this, because my whole life I was blamed for my mother's behavior and which is why I was so willing to let my H blame me for his. I'm also willing to consider that this may be how I feel considering my background of being blamed, and that there may be more to this than I am aware of.

I don't deny that my FOO was disordered, and that this influenced my later years, but I took responsibility for myself. I realize that I can not expect my parents or even my H to be different. I have taken her advice to deal with co-dependency, attend 12 step groups, and change my enabling behavior and will continue to do so. This is what led me to not buy into the idea that I was responsible for my H's feelings and to WOE to keep things peaceful.

What I told her (in private) was that I had come to a point where I realized that much of his anger at me was because he believed something I did was true that wasn't, and that my trying to explain myself invalidated him and so I was not going to do that anymore ( basically saying that I wasn't going to JADE). She said she thought he did well in the last session- to me he was avoiding her personal questions acting calm and collected and placing most of the blame on me. I'm usually the one with the concerns and so the focus of many sessions is on me, but I speak from the heart in the sessions, and I will sometimes cry because these issues are so sad and frustrating. We have made a lot of progress. He is managing his being triggered better. I have done extensive work with co-dependency, and am focusing more on my own recovery.

I see a lot of benefit to this. For one, she has been teaching me many of the techniques here- radical acceptance and honesty. She did say my realizations about his rages were a good development and that I can behave more honestly now instead of WOE since I don't take what he says personally and react. My H has never agreed to marital T before and he refuses to see anyone but her. I told her I was scared to talk too much about him for fear of interfering with the process. He's always charming in the office. I realize that if he ever thought she thought he had any problem, he'd never come back. I sometimes think he believes, or would like to believe that the problem is all me. I also understand the benefit to me of keeping the focus on me and not him, since I can only change me, not him.

My issue? Well, I do have to admit that in a way I resent having the label "co-dependent" while he has none, being the one to be told to get help for it, while he has no instructions to do anything else out of T, however, I am also aware that this is the only plan that would work at this moment- for being less co-dependent may lead to something different later. My main problem is that it feels so dishonest to me and somewhat triggering of my childhood where we had to pretend mom was normal. I also know that telling mom straight out that she has a problem is completely futile as her denial is so strong that she just dissociates. Yet by learning to deal with her better, I see that she is aware, and very ashamed of the way she treated us when we were little. I didn't think progress with someone at her age was possible, but it is.

The best way to deal with mom is using the tools here such as SET. My plan is to continue to do what seems to be working well for me and for both of us and keep working on co-dependency issues for me.

It is just triggering to me to be told I am the problem. I noticed many people here have partners who are diagnosed and in T. I feel as if my H is on the mild end- maybe just traits for which I am grateful, so I have no right to be diagnosing him. Still, I can't believe that that raging at me for what he thinks I have done that I didn't do is "normal" behavior. There are better ways to talk out disagreements.

I wonder if anyone has dealt with this. Even if the T is not addressing his issues, I still want to go as it is working in many ways.  I want to be responsible for my problems, but I don't believe there are any couples out there where only one has the problem.









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formflier
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 08:03:13 AM »

It is just triggering to me to be told I am the problem. 

What exactly was told... .or said to you? 

What has your husband agreed to "work on" for the benefit of the marriage?  What "homework" does he have... .or is there "joint" homework?

I've been in and out of MC for about 5 years.  Some was ineffective... .some was.  I"ve only known about BPD traits for a year or so.  So... don't want to be "unfair" when I look back at the other years.  I didn't realize what I was dealing with... .neither did counselors... .and to be completely fair... neither does my wife... .

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Notwendy
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2015, 08:25:33 AM »

I was trying to explain some of the rages and she told me to not be so wrapped up in them. It wasn't so much that I was wrapped up in what happened than excitement over the idea that I could finally not take them personally. Perhaps she misread my excitement as being wrapped up, I don't know.

I have more homework than he does. After a few sessions, she explained co-dependency to me, suggested a 12 step group. I was so welcome to anything that would help that I was doing this within a week and working with a sponsor. It was hard for me to grasp this at first. Mom abused alcohol, and although I will drink wine occasionally, I have never been a drinker or been absolutely drunk. H doesn't drink either, maybe a glass of wine once in a while like me- so I am grateful for that.  I was thinking what was I doing here. However, I found the groups that focused on co-dependency and being an adult child (ACOA) to be very helpful. She has not told my H he has anything that is labeled and there is no expectation for his personal homework. We do have homework together which is rarely followed through. He forgets, doesn't have time. I don't have the incentive to push it. I think he would do it if he did, but I am somewhat burned out on wanting both of us to work on something together. This is my fault too and I could do better with it. One of his excuses for me doing more"homework" is that work keeps him from having the time. Sometimes he uses this as a put down " well you have time to brood too much on this".

The T can only deal with what she knows and since I am forthcoming with what bothers me, she turns it on me. H is just the wonderful caring person in T, and when he discusses me making him mad, she tells him to walk away from me, which is good. Someone has to stop these innefective communcations. She has also gotten him to pay attention to his triggers and be more open with the kids about feelings which is good. But there has been no discussion on why he has these rages.

Last, she said to me to "not provoke them" I am aware that people in a relationship can push each others buttons and I am more respectful of his boundaries. However, the best way to not have him rage is to WOE and accomodate him. I don't think she means that, but by saying this, she also isn't acknowleging that sometimes I don't have to be doing anything to provoke him and he can make up a reason to rage.

I think being raged at out of the blue is the hardest issue for me, because it was so terrifying for me as a child. It is a huge step for me to be able to see them differently now and not take them personally. However, "don't provoke the rages" is too familiar to "don't upset mother"- that I had to take on being responsible for mom's rages when I was a kid-, even if it isn't the same thing.
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formflier
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2015, 08:51:50 AM »

 

Notwendy,

Is this your first experience with MC?


Also... I'm explain that I'm a "language guy"... words really matter to me.  I'm probably a bit extreme on that... .but... that's me.  Just understand that when you read my responses... I'm not picking at you... .

To be clear here... .has the MC told you that you are THE problem.  It would seem that she hasn't... .but... I don't want to assume.

We all have issues... and... .most of the time... .a MC will go after the lower hanging fruit... .to get the easy stuff going... .get some momentum.

Also... many times they will go after the person that can change... .just to get the dynamic different.

More later...

Hope you have a good day!

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Ripped Heart
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2015, 09:10:54 AM »

Notwendy, it can be extremely frustrating when you feel you are being singled out in joint therapy where you feel you have to question yourself and defend your own thoughts. I know, because I've been there too and it certainly isn't a nice feeling.

I have to agree with formflier on this, that perhaps things are being directed towards you because MC knows you are capable of changing your perception and that you aren't the problem.

When I first started going to Joint Therapy with my exN/BPDw, I felt very much the same way. She was allowed to rant, point fingers, get validation for her feelings and I felt I was constantly having to justify and defend myself. It really did feel like it was 2 against 1 in the room, even the way the T spoke to me made me nervous. Finally, after a few sessions, he told exN/BPDw that he didn't need to see her anymore but wanted to continue to work with me on a solo basis. She was thrilled because it told her that I was the issue and that she was perfect.

Truth was, he had her pegged from the very beginning, knew she wasn't capable of change but that she was very much the issue. he made her feel so comfortable in the room that the mask came off and she revealed her real identity.

My first solo session, he apologised to me and explained his actions and the reasoning behind it all. We both had issues, in that she was NPD/BPD and I was a co-dependent rescuer. It was going to be much easier to work with me and help me to understand the dynamic in order to break the cycle. Had it been the other way around, it would have played on her and she would have quit anyway because to her, she didn't have a problem and you can't work with someone unless they are willing to change. She couldn't do that so he cut her free without triggering her.

My sessions with him were very different to the joint sessions. But what I noticed was that exN/BPDw kept urging me to go because she recalled how he acted towards me in our joint sessions. She even continued to bombard him with emails about my behaviour and dictated to him what he needed to work on with me. In return, he helped me recognise the abuse, see the dynamic, learn tools to protect myself and eventually the strength to walk away from what was a highly toxic situation.

So don't be too hard on yourself because you T will point things out to you and help you change because they know and understand you aren't the disordered one, you are the one capable of change. It might feel it's 2 against 1 in the office but the reality is that T is on your side even if it doesn't feel like it at the time 
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Notwendy
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2015, 09:19:48 AM »

Wow, thanks both of you. This makes me feel better. A big issue for me is that I had that same role in my FOO. Of all of them, I was (hopefully) the strongest one and a lot was expected out of me. Still, I was also the child that so badly wanted the kind of validation I needed from my parents, especially Dad, but Dad enlisted me into the caretaking role of mom because I was capable. So this both validated and invalidated me. What I also wanted was for once for Dad to take me into his arms and say "it's OK, it is not your fault, she's the one with the problem" so it is understandable how being in T that focuses on me can bring up all these old feelings.

So thanks for letting me see that there is another possible reason. And FF, don't worry about me thinking I am being picked on. I like to see different points of view than my own.
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MissyM
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2015, 09:44:55 AM »

Notwendy, I think what Ripped has said sounds right on the money.  As a recovering codependent, a codependent has to have an addict/abuser/mentally ill person to be codependent with.  That diagnosis wouldn't happen on it's own.  It sounds like you have grown a lot in this process.  Are you seeing anyone for individual?  Just wondering, or do you feel that doing it as MC allows for some peace in your home?  I know that my dBPDh used to take anything a MC would say that sounded like I was the problem and use to beat me up emotionally.  It took a lot of individual therapy for both of us and MCs experienced with BPD, to be able to have productive MC.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2015, 09:59:47 AM »

Missy, I have had a lot of individual T in the past, and also met with this one. However, I am hesitant to speak with her further, because my H has expressed his feelings that it would upset the playing field. I know it took a lot for him to be there.

For now, I do have a sponsor who does validate me and helps me use 12 steps to get through tough spots, and I go to meetings regularly. This is helping tremendously. I understand that the codependent position is what got me here, and also it was a continuation of my role in my FOO.

I so wish he'd go for T- for him as well as us. He had a verbally abusive and invalidating dad who caused him to feel a lot of shame and pain. I believe this is what gets triggered. However, I know that I can't make him go.
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formflier
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2015, 11:00:30 AM »

 

Notwendy,

I know this "feels unfair" to lots of people.  But the general advice on BPD family is that it is the "nons" that need to change first... .that will upset the dynamic... .and the pwBPD traits are "forced" to change because their old stuff isn't working anymore.

I have seen that story repeated many many times.  it is basically my story as well.

Chances that your story will be different... are very... .very small.

However... one "caution"... .don't be "afraid" to bring things up in MC because you are worried he may run away.  My wife has run out... .it's not the end of the world.  And it is informative about the future... .I know understand what kinds of things will make her likely to run out... and what can be worked on. 

Sometimes some "side issues" need to be worked... .to get to the heart of it.

So... .my advice. 

1.  Make sure that you do 100% of your homework... .as close to perfection as possible.  It's good for you... .and it boxes in your hubby some.  One less excuse he can use.

2.  Ask for things he can do to support you in your change... .you know he loves you and this is making the r/s better (this gives him non confrontational "taskers"... it's not his fault... .he is helping... .you need help)  Make sure you are clear  each session if he accomplished it or not.  Praise when he does... .see to "understand" when he doesn't.

Either way... you win.

Thoughts?

Oh yeah... .individual work with the MC T is bad idea.  Unless you are calling it Family T... .rules there are a bit different.


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Notwendy
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2015, 11:38:52 AM »

FF, this is good advice thanks. I appreciate the advice to do my end of the couples homework, as sometimes I just feel apathetic after putting in so much effort into my own homework.

As to hope of change, that's a very scary thought. I saw this play out over a long time with my parents, with them having issues into their elder years and I recognize that neither of them had any formal treatment for BPD/co-dependency- that is wasn't even available to them when they got married. I know that my situation is healthier than theirs is, and I have access to help, even if things aren't going to change a lot.

Since dealing with co-dependency and childhood issues, I have a better relationship with my mom. She doesn't trigger me, hardly at all. This is huge considering she did all the time. I don't react to her as much. It's easier to talk without escalating. She hasn't changed, but I have, and so maybe there is hope for the possibility that I can move further in this direction with my H too.
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formflier
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2015, 04:37:12 PM »

 

change in my r/s was worrisome (to me) as well. 

Still is... because I don't exactly know where this will end up... .but... .I've made a decision that there is no turning back.

And I'm constantly challenging myself... .to my actions align with my decisions... my values.  Am I showing leadership in this situation... ?

That is a good way for you to think... .

Show your husband how you want him to behave in MC... .and with homework.

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