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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: An apology of sorts  (Read 703 times)
Ripped Heart
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« on: January 15, 2015, 02:13:25 PM »

I've been NC with BPDgf for 2 days now following an outburst earlier in the week. I explained that she cannot be upset with me if I don't answer the phone when she calls and also be angry with me when I do get the time to call back as I have things going on too. Given the outburst, I explained that I needed to take a step back because it was being unfair on me.

It's been a difficult 2 days because she has tried to call, text and email but I wasn't prepared to speak to her at that time and needed that space like I told her. Tonight she called again and I spoke to her. She explained that she was feeling really frustrated the other day because it had been a very long drive for her, she wasn't well and she was also really tired.

My response back to her was that I know it can be a difficult drive, especially in heavy traffic and road works and that I understand how frustrating this could be for her. I also asked her about how she was feeling in terms of being sick and that I was sorry she wasn't well and hopes she gets plenty of rest and recovers soon.

The phone call went rather well considering and appeared like things were as normal as they can be. She told me about some of the things she has done these past couple of days and asked how I was since I had been ill myself last week.

I cut the call short, explaining to her that I didn't want to keep her on too long as she needed rest.

In all, I think there was some progress there, how long it will last I don't know but only time will tell.
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 05:20:47 PM »

 It sounds like you are handling this in a mature way, and also a way that will be attractive to her.

I know it's hard. I stay the course.

I noticed use the term "no contact". What you actually mean by that?
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 05:47:10 PM »

Thanks skip,

When I say NC, I mean that when I take a step back I dont answer the phone, read texts or emails until I'm ready and in a much better place to communicate otherwise it throws me out of sync and we end up doing the dance.

She just called again because she had to take daughter into town. She talked about getting a bike at the end of the month and I suggested we could both take the bikes out for a ride if she does. She mentioned that she had to take a friend out to see someone yesterday and wished she could have got hold of me to join her. So I suggested that if she has to do it again next week I could join her then.

Just playing things nice and calm right now, and keeping the focus on the present. It can be really tough at times but I'm kind of finding that balance. Lots on for me this weekend and next week to keep my focus elsewhere so shall see how things go.
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2015, 05:51:30 PM »

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2015, 07:27:03 PM »



Sounds like you are doing well with this.  I especially like the deliberate self examination and assessment of yourself before choosing to communicate with her.  Keep that up... it will serve you well.


One things to chat about below.  I'll pose this as a question... .what is the "danger" in explaining to someone that they shouldn't feel a certain way? 

  I explained that she cannot be upset with me 

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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2015, 07:43:03 PM »

I suppose the only danger I can see is that it can come across as invalidating their feelings when you tell someone how they should feel, because their feelings are their own. That's an aspect I need to work on in how to word things better.

In terms of the dynamic, she gets really upset if I don't answer the phone when she calls. But when I call her back, she is annoyed as though it's an inconvenience to her because I should have answered when she called. That's the message I was trying to convey to her but not necessarily conveyed it in the right way.

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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2015, 07:49:06 PM »

I suppose the only danger I can see is that it can come across as invalidating their feelings when you tell someone how they should feel, because their feelings are their own. That's an aspect I need to work on in how to word things better.

In terms of the dynamic, she gets really upset if I don't answer the phone when she calls. But when I call her back, she is annoyed as though it's an inconvenience to her because I should have answered when she called. That's the message I was trying to convey to her but not necessarily conveyed it in the right way.

Good analysis of the danger.  Is that a big danger... or small one?

Why were you trying to convey that message to her... what was the goal?
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2015, 08:05:25 PM »

It could probably be regarded as a big danger given where her state of mind has been recently. I'm not usually one to disregard her feelings, it's usually the opposite where regardless of how I'm feeling at the time, I would always make time to validate her feelings. So perhaps given that it happens infrequently, it was possibly a small danger in that regard. However, if it was constant I could see that being a big danger so something that needs to be stopped altogether.

My goal is that I found it hurtful and unfair that regardless of which hoop I jumped though, she was going to be critical. I wanted to let her know that it was being unfair and hurtful towards me because there are times when I have other things on so can't jump to her aid. However, when I have a moment free, she is my priority. If she needs help or assistance with something and I'm available, that I will help and assist. What I won't put up with are angry outbursts and nasty comments directed at me when something else is taking priority because it's unfair and hurtful towards me.

What seems to be the common theme is that I do inform her of when I'm in a meeting or going to an appointment and she usually picks that time to call. I've explained before that during those times, my phone is usually on silent and I will call her when I have the opportunity to do so. In terms of appointment with T, we have picked different days, different times and without fail my phone will ring or texts will come through needing me to call her. T has already picked up on this too. As for meetings, they are the same date and time every week or every month. There always appears to be a disaster at the exact time I have something that needs to be done, without fail. There hasn't been a single T appointment where she hasn't called or text and it's usually when I call back that I get the nasty comments and outbursts.

The thing is that when I'm not in a meeting or appointment, my time is hers, she calls day and night, often in the middle of the night when she can't sleep and I answer. So I could understand if 99.9% of the time I wasn't available how she could be angry or upset but she does it on the 0.1% that I'm not around.
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2015, 08:41:53 PM »

The thing is that when I'm not in a meeting or appointment, my time is hers, she calls day and night, often in the middle of the night when she can't sleep and I answer. So I could understand if 99.9% of the time I wasn't available how she could be angry or upset but she does it on the 0.1% that I'm not around.

Do you like being available on call to her 99.9% of the time?

Do you feel that she owes you something because you are that available to her?
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2015, 08:54:42 PM »

Do you like being available on call to her 99.9% of the time?

Do you feel that she owes you something because you are that available to her?

Not at all, if I'm not doing anything then yes, I'm more than happy to devote my time to her but there has to be a balance. There are times I do have a lot on or things that need to be done so it would be good to be able to do that.

When we first started dating, there were a few things she was particular on which to be honest were huge   

She told me she couldn't go more than 4 days without us seeing each other because she has major abandonment issues and it would cause her to have a meltdown.

I went out on day to meet up with friends for a couple of hours. Sent her a text when I got home and she said she was relieved because had I stayed out all evening with friends, it wasn't going to work between us.

She once had a meltdown because she tried to skype me whilst I was in the shower. I asked her just to drop me a text if she wanted to go on skype because then I can be ready. She didn't take that very well.

However, these are just some of the things that she asked for and these were things I agreed to so it's not on her, I agreed to them.

As for owing me something, not at all but it doesn't stop me feeling frustrated at times when painted black for something I didn't do fast enough given all the other times I did.

That is all down to me, I had weak boundaries (sometimes none at all) and if I want to break free of being the co-dependent rescuer, I need to start enforcing boundaries because I do play a part in the dynamic and although I don't feel she owes me anything, I do feel frustrated at times. I need to find that balance within myself and learn how to approach things better.
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2015, 09:16:10 PM »

Yes, you agreed to it.

You can renegotiate it.

And when I say renegotiate, you may have to simply tell her that you will be behaving differently on the phone with her.

For now, set aside any such negotiations... .and dream a little bit.

What would you consider to be a reasonable way to deal with her on the phone? How would you like it to be?
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2015, 10:26:42 PM »

 

quick comment... .more tomorrow

Explaining her feelings to her is dangerous... don't do it.  Very likely will invalidate her... invalidation is BAD!


I'm getting the vibe from reading this that there is an expectation on your part that if you can just explain things to her... she will "get it"... and behave differently.  Am I ontrack with what I am picking up as a vibe?

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2015, 11:21:09 PM »

This is why I dont do boundaries, too complicated to understand

Phone call, I have no issues around her being angry or upset if I've done something wrong or not followed through. I feel hurt when I get nasty comments or outbursts over something I haven't but that's been my life so I accept it.

As for an expectation, in some ways that's true. She has had outbursts before and then apologised because she knows she has a disorder and does blame it on that. So yes, when she has an outburst, I do sometimes hope she is able to detect that its not right or fair. Its not so much about her behaving differently but this is what I'm struggling to understand.

Boundaries are a certain level of expectation to avoid me feeling hurt and upset. At the same time I shouldn't have any expectations of BPDgf not to cause me hurt or upset through her outbursts or nasty comments. I should be clear about what I will tolerate but also not say anything because it might cause a reaction.

This is where I really struggle and why its just so confusing 



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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2015, 11:36:34 PM »

This is why I dont do boundaries, too complicated to understand

Can we help you work out how to enforce boundaries? Pick one specific boundary.

I don't always find it easy to enforce boundaries... .but I do find it simple. There is no need for them to be complicated.
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2015, 06:16:19 AM »

Ripped, two observations.

You seem to be back in the relationship, but as far as I can tell, the serial infidelity issue has not been addressed. I'm wondering what's going on there. If it's a boundary for you, I would be missing that if I were her. Fuzziness about such things sends mixed messages and sets you both up for a collision down the road.

Second, more to do with this thread: I could be missing something, but it feels like your use of NC and then limiting communication is somewhat punitive. She reacted poorly to something you said > you withhold communication or ration it.

I don't get what this is supposed to be accomplishing. It may make her run like a rat in a maze for a little bit trying to win back your approval, but that is a dynamic that will build resentment. Toying with abandonment fears to regulate someone's behavior doesn't seem like a good strategy to me.
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2015, 07:20:11 AM »

There is no need for them to be complicated.

I'm also wondering if the values behind the boundaries that you are trying to enforce or "use" are settled in your mind and heart.

I think after you lay out a couple boundaries that you are trying to enforce... that we will be able to dig backwards and ask you some questions about the values that you are trying to express... or "live out"

Hang in there... .we can help this get better... .less complicated... .
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2015, 09:12:25 AM »

I would just urge that you know why you're doing what you're doing before you do it. Jerking yourself and her around btwn NC and going on nice outings is really scary and hard, and it would be good if it were clearly defined what she needs to do to not violate your boundaries. And NC and curtailed willingness to engage is generally not a boundary enforcement mechanism. Taking a break during rages, yes. But rationing contact somewhat arbitrarily and without specific conditions for returning (which you then stick to) builds fear which will ultimately play out in ways you don't like.)
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2015, 11:41:31 AM »

This is where I kind of lose hope and get really confused. In a similar way to the vortex of emotional turmoil that pwBPD suffer, I go into a brain frenzy with information overload. Kind of similar to the black and white thinking pwBPD experience. With AS, rules have to be simple and straight forward, point A to point B and I have to understand the logic behind the rules in order to process them. When rules have a clear path, it's much easier to follow but any deviation means I have to re-analyse and refocus otherwise I go into an overload pattern where nothing makes sense.

I understand the questions being posed and to me they make perfect logical sense. However, being able to process a solution is far harder for me and is what is causing the confusion right now. Boundaries are completely new to me and in a sense, it's similar to asking someone to design a car having never seen one in the first place. I understand the concept of what is being asked but have no idea on how to begin or what is the right rule set to use for any given situation. It's this what causes my confusion.

PatientandClear  , I actually meant to post this in on the undecided board, maybe subconsciously I posted it on the Staying board for a reason. The infidelity issue isn't addressed in it's entirety but as I've mentioned on previous posts, I believe that it's about moving forward now and finding a way for me to deal with what has gone before. I did tell her outright that I knew what had gone on but she denied it and said it hurt that I could even suggest such an allegation. It isn't a hunch as I do have the evidence but this is where it gets tricky. If I continue to confront her, I continue to hurt her feelings and given whats been said below, doing that am I not invalidating her feelings by having to be right?

As it stands, I've made it clear to her that I can't have any relationship with someone who cheats, be that as a partner or even a friendship. That if she isn't interested in making things work and just keeping me along until something else comes up, I would appreciate the honesty so that I can step away now rather than be hurt further down the line. I feel that this has explained how I feel around infidelity moving forwards and what my actions would be should it occur in the future.

As for the NC, that is for me and not as a punishment. The current dynamic is that I tell her I'm not happy about something, an hour later I get a completely irrelevant text, respond to it and it's like anything I had to say meant nothing. There is no apology, it's like whatever I feel doesn't matter. So given what I've read on the site and what others advise, I tell her that I'm not happy or hurt by nasty comments and I'm taking a step back because I won't be spoken to in that manner. But in the same respect, I'm also hearing that is the wrong approach. So I get totally confused as to the right way to approach it. It's not like i suddenly cut her off, I explain why I'm taking a time out so to speak. If I was to respond when the irrelevant text comes in, then I'm not enforcing my boundary because then I'm saying, I'm taking a time out but it's ok, things haven't changed. I find that even more confusing.

So I guess what I'm trying to ask is what is the right way to deal with such a situation because that's what I find difficult about this boundary issue.

I felt that explaining to her that if she continues with outbursts and nasty comments, I will take a step back because I deserve not to be spoken to in that manner was laying down a boundary. It was the non-rationing of communication which to this point has kept the cycle going because jumping straight back into communication when I'm still hurt about her actions, isn't that the same as bending to her wants and needs and disregarding my own feelings?
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2015, 12:06:53 PM »

  You do sound confused on boundaries. But I think you are closing in on it. This helps me understand:

The current dynamic is that I tell her I'm not happy about something, an hour later I get a completely irrelevant text, respond to it and it's like anything I had to say meant nothing. There is no apology, it's like whatever I feel doesn't matter. So given what I've read on the site and what others advise, I tell her that I'm not happy or hurt by nasty comments and I'm taking a step back because I won't be spoken to in that manner. But in the same respect, I'm also hearing that is the wrong approach. So I get totally confused as to the right way to approach it. It's not like i suddenly cut her off, I explain why I'm taking a time out so to speak. If I was to respond when the irrelevant text comes in, then I'm not enforcing my boundary because then I'm saying, I'm taking a time out but it's ok, things haven't changed. I find that even more confusing.

You told her you weren't happy about something. Can you back up a bit, to the point where "something" happened, where she did or said something that was hurtful or uncomfortable to you? Please be as specific as you can.

Then relate what you said to tell her you weren't happy.

And the specifics of her unrelated text.

And again what you sent her in response to it.

... .I suspect you are trying to enforce a boundary to change past behavior, and they don't work that way. Boundary enforcement is a way to protect yourself from the immediate consequences of immediate behavior. But I'm not sure, and need more details of the story to really help you do something differently.
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2015, 12:28:04 PM »

 

I'm interested in the answers to GKs questions as well... I think we are about to be able to give you some good guidance.

So... .is your boundary that you won't be with someone that cheats?

If that is oversimplification... .let me know.

If I have missed it... .please write out your boundary.  Separate the boundary from the action to protect it... .

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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2015, 12:40:19 PM »

With AS, rules have to be simple and straight forward, point A to point B and I have to understand the logic behind the rules in order to process them. When rules have a clear path, it's much easier to follow but any deviation means I have to... .

What is AS?  Sorry if I missed it earlier  Being cool (click to insert in post)


As it stands, I've made it clear to her that I can't have any relationship with someone who cheats, be that as a partner or even a friendship. That if she isn't interested in making things work and just keeping me along until something else comes up, I would appreciate the honesty so that I can step away now... .

I might be able to clarify this a bit.

Value: Monogamy

Boundary: You define what is out of bounds to you - is it sexual intercourse, emotional involvement, is it contact with prior lovers, etc. - we don't all define it the same.

Communication: Telling others how you see it for you.  

Enforcement: What you will do if your value is violated.

All the terminology is just to provide a common framework to discus the components.

Make sense?

What you are trying to sort out, I believe, is what is the definition of each category and that is the hard part.  Having values comes with a cost.

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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2015, 01:10:17 PM »

Having values comes with a cost.

And... .having values comes with big benefits.

It's up to each person to figure out if the cost... .is worth the benefit... .and vice versa.

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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2015, 03:45:56 PM »

I told her that the outbursts hurt when I've not done anything to deserve them and that I wasn't happy at getting nasty comments when they weren't warranted either. The last outburst was the fact that regardless of how many times I've explained that I'm in a meeting or appointment and that my phone will be on silent, she will call regardless and then get angry at the fact I didn't pick up the phone when she called. Likewise, when I am free and do call her back, it's an inconvenience to her because it's not the time she wanted me to call, I should have answered the phone when she called. After the last time, I told her I needed a time out because I found the outburst hurtful given that I had already told her I would be unavailable at that time.

As for the text, it was to let me know she was taking her daughter in to town, wasn't feeling well and had seen a handbag on sale that she considered buying.

Yes, my boundary is that I can't be with someone who cheats, it's more about the sex element to me than emotional involvement. I've had previous gf's who have done that (though I was a soldier and away a lot of the time) but when found out decided they didn't want to be in an r/s but lets still be friends. I can't do that with someone who has hurt me either.

AS - Aspergers Syndrome

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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2015, 03:56:15 PM »

Yes, my boundary is that I can't be with someone who cheats,

OK... .this is clear.  Is there a time limit to this... .or is it an absolute?

For instance... .if someone cheats... says sorry... .is "clean" for several months... will you give the r/s another go.

Or... .is it a zero tolerance thing... .one cheat... .that r/s is over... ?
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2015, 04:00:27 PM »

I told her that the outbursts hurt when I've not done anything to deserve them

Possibly an invalidating statement.  Can you read it... think about it... and figure out how this may invalidate her?

  regardless of how many times I've explained

So... do you think if you explained it again... .would it make a difference?

  then get angry at the fact I didn't pick up the phone

Are you responsible for her anger?

  I found the outburst hurtful given that I had already told her I would be unavailable at that time.

Would the outburst have been less hurtful if you had not already told her?

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« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2015, 04:08:30 PM »

I'm going to leave the issue of infidelity aside today; I've done quite enough with it lately!

This issue can be handled by much easier boundary enforcement:

I told her that the outbursts hurt when I've not done anything to deserve them and that I wasn't happy at getting nasty comments when they weren't warranted either. The last outburst was the fact that regardless of how many times I've explained that I'm in a meeting or appointment and that my phone will be on silent, she will call regardless and then get angry at the fact I didn't pick up the phone when she called. Likewise, when I am free and do call her back, it's an inconvenience to her because it's not the time she wanted me to call, I should have answered the phone when she called. After the last time, I told her I needed a time out because I found the outburst hurtful given that I had already told her I would be unavailable at that time.

Start by not being there to accept the outbursts. When they happen.

If she calls and you don't answer, that isn't a problem for you.

Tell her that you answer when you can, and don't answer when you can't. And tell her that you won't call her back if you get a voicemail/text that is about your not answering the phone. Then don't. Just ignore those texts/voicemails. (If she gives you a whole series of raging ones, and you find them triggering, delete them without listening/reading)

When she next calls, and you can answer, or when you do call back, if you get berated for not picking up the phone, say goodbye and hang up. Perhaps "I won't be spoken to like that. Goodbye. Click"

Or if she is reasonable in asking you to call back, but when you do, you get a ration of crap about it being inconvenient to her, say "Since it is inconvenient now, when do you want to talk?" (and if you don't get a good answer, "Goodbye."
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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2015, 05:33:14 PM »

RH, I am going to address a specific issue that could make this relationship difficult. As I understand, you have AS, a condition that requires someone being straightforward with you, and clear about their emotions, as people with AS aren't generally adept at identitfying emotions well. A good partner for someone who has AS is someone who is very honest, reliable and not manipulative. People with AS are generally not manipulative because they are not as skilled at decieving people. Hence, they are also easily manipulated as they don't assume this motivation in others.

I could be off base here, but many people with AS are also somewhat socially isolated and a bit naive as social situations are stressful for them. Most single men would like to be with an attractive and attentive woman, but a man with AS may not be as adept at recognizing a healthy relationship. In fact, many of us here in relationships were not able to recognize that so AS is not the only situation that would predispose someone to that.

Because of their disorder, pwBPD are manipulative, not always telling the truth, and emotionally volatile. It is hard for partners to figure out what is going on. However, for a person with AS who needs people to be straightforward, someone with BPD would be quite a challenge to have as a partner.

For all of us, it comes down to looking at ourselves and our relationships and what issues we had that got us here. Many of us have children and situations where it is complicated to walk a way. I know we are not supposed to suggest leaving a relationship and I am not telling you to do this. However, since you are not married, and I assume that you don't have children together, you are in a position to ask yourself if this relationship is good for you and not stay if you decide it is not. You can also take steps to help yourself in relationships. Intimate relationships are hard for both people with AS and BPD, but for different reasons. I think getting counseling from someone who has skills with working with people with AS might be able to help you decide what you need in a relationship and some coaching to help you achieve it.   

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Notwendy
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2015, 05:51:43 PM »

I'll add some information about boundaries. We all have them, but sometimes they are not strong. A boudary is something that belongs to you, not something you enforce on others because we can't control what they are going to do. For instance you can set a boundary: "do not call me during meetings". She can do what she wants, call every minute if she wants. However, you can protect your boundary- when you are in a meeting, turn off your phone.

If you say I am NC, she might still call, so the only way to enforce NC is not to answer or call back, even change your number if you don't want to be contacted by her.

However, if you say you will not contact her, and you do, then she learns that it is OK to cross your boundary and you are reinforcing her attempts to try. Also some people with BPD consider a boundary a challenge and try to cross it even when they are asked not to.

A boundary can be your own inner value system. Some people want to be with someone of their own religion. They would not enter a relationship with someone of another religion. Some people would not be in a relationship where there is infidelity, so they do not stay in one where there is. A boundary can be your "bottom line"- what you absolutely won't do for someone. You might agree to do something you aren't interested in doing, but would not do something like rob a bank, or murder someone, no matter who asked, because that crosses a moral boundary.

You can decide what behaviors you do not wish to participate in and what you will not tolerate not just for your GF or from anyone else. It's about what you are going to do, not what she does.

If you truly want to be NC from her then you must not make contact, or reply to her making contact, no matter how many times she calls.

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Ripped Heart
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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2015, 07:09:22 PM »

RH, I am going to address a specific issue that could make this relationship difficult. As I understand, you have AS, a condition that requires someone being straightforward with you, and clear about their emotions, as people with AS aren't generally adept at identitfying emotions well. A good partner for someone who has AS is someone who is very honest, reliable and not manipulative. People with AS are generally not manipulative because they are not as skilled at decieving people. Hence, they are also easily manipulated as they don't assume this motivation in others.

I could be off base here, but many people with AS are also somewhat socially isolated and a bit naive as social situations are stressful for them. Most single men would like to be with an attractive and attentive woman, but a man with AS may not be as adept at recognizing a healthy relationship. In fact, many of us here in relationships were not able to recognize that so AS is not the only situation that would predispose someone to that.

Because of their disorder, pwBPD are manipulative, not always telling the truth, and emotionally volatile. It is hard for partners to figure out what is going on. However, for a person with AS who needs people to be straightforward, someone with BPD would be quite a challenge to have as a partner.

For all of us, it comes down to looking at ourselves and our relationships and what issues we had that got us here. Many of us have children and situations where it is complicated to walk a way. I know we are not supposed to suggest leaving a relationship and I am not telling you to do this. However, since you are not married, and I assume that you don't have children together, you are in a position to ask yourself if this relationship is good for you and not stay if you decide it is not. You can also take steps to help yourself in relationships. Intimate relationships are hard for both people with AS and BPD, but for different reasons. I think getting counseling from someone who has skills with working with people with AS might be able to help you decide what you need in a relationship and some coaching to help you achieve it.   

NotWendy, you sum everything up perfectly 

My T is someone who works with AS so it does make things much easier to understand and work forward, for now though I'm still in the dissection phase. There are multiple elements to my involvement in previous relationships which aren't just related to AS but have other factors such as my own FOO. I often wondered if my involvement with pwBPD was partly down to the fact that I identify with logic over emotions where pwBPD identifies with emotions over logic, therefore we are at the opposite ends of the scale. I also imagine that I could be just as frustrating to someone in a healthy relationship as someone is with BPD to others.

You raise some good points around manipulation and this has been an issue in the past, though I tend to be a little more aware of it as a result. Just as a blind person might be able to tune in to their other senses, we learn by studying people. We have to in order to identify and understand someone elses moods and emotions. I think that might be part of my issue is the amount of time and effort taken to learn someone, makes it difficult to want to let go and coupled alongside co-dependency and rescuer personality is mentally exhausting.

I do need rules, structure, people to be blunt and straight forward as I struggle with reading between the lines so playing a guessing game, I would usually take things as they were said though also knowing there could be a hidden meaning and then struggle to figure it out. I don't struggle too much with social situations though do need notice in order to plan for them, another reason I loved my relationship with BPDgf because when the focus is on her, I don't have to think about everybody and everything else.

Grey Kitty - Not answering is not an issue for me but hearing the phone ring causes a level of anxiety, same with a text coming through. hence why when I've mentioned NC, it's not been as a "punishment" but as a way for me to control my own feelings of anxiety. I've already discussed the calling back when I can with her but it doesn't change anything and what you said about me telling her I won't call back and ignoring them is what I thought I had been doing.

Formflier, I've tried but I can't understand why that would be an invalidating statement. I thought it was expressing how I felt around an action she was taking. I'm not responsible for her anger and as far as it being less hurtful if I hadn't already told her, I would have to say yes to that. My belief there is that if I hadn't informed her that I would be unavailable then the responsibility would be on me and for me to deal with.

As for the cheating aspect, I don't know if I could answer that. I guess it would depend on the situation and at what stage I was at in my own healing. I don't know if I could enter back into a relationship with someone who had done that. However, I did once have another girlfriend many years ago who cheated but got back in contact several years later and apologised. I wouldn't say we are friends now but more casual acquaintances but that's more to do with indifference than anything else. 
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« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2015, 07:38:12 PM »

Had a phone call from her again tonight to tell me all about her day and that she had just been swimming with her friend at the gym. Once she finished telling me about her day she asked what I was doing with myself tomorrow and that's where things got a little complicated.

Tomorrow evening, I'm out with a few friends who 2 just happen to be female and one of them she has already met. I was honest with her about my plans for tomorrow and told her that I was going out with friends and when she asked who, I told her the truth. She let out a sound that was more reminisce of being stabbed through the heart and the whole tone of the conversation changed. She was suddenly lost for things to talk about and then had to go but hoped that I had a good night tomorrow night.

I know that something threw her off guard and I do feel bad about it. However, I'm not going to lie to her and tell her I'm just having a night in or hide the fact that some of my friends are female, she knows that already. She also knows that these have been friends for almost 10 years and we have helped each other through a lot over those years. I'm not entirely sure if it's the fact I'm out with females tomorrow or the fact I'm out at all which has thrown her. She didn't rage about it or have an outburst but I know something in what I said has hurt her and I'm certain it is because I'm out with females.

I do see an amount of mirroring going on right now which is blatant and obvious. I bought a new bike recently so I can get out cycling, she is buying a bike at the end of the month when she gets paid. I started back at the gym a few weeks ago with a friend of mine who I served with in the army, she joined a gym tonight with her female friend. I looked at planning a weekend away with my military friend (we used to go on weekends away to watch the boxing and thought it would be good given the years we both had to have a break) she plans a weekend away with her friend. There are lots of other little things too but definitely a lot of mirroring going on.

Again, another area I have a hard time navigating because I didn't want to explain or justify why I was going out with my friends and answered the questions she put to me. Was I right to tell her or should I have kept it to myself and played down my plans?
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