Helping the children in a "BPD" family

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

OK, so I've been open with the children about disordered behaviour. It didn't go over really well, but I believe the children have the right to know what has/is happening in their lives.

W has indicated that she would prefer that I involved her in such discussions, but as soon as I have one, she goes into victim mode and starts playing on her IPad.

Any success stories out there about involving BPD spouse in the parenting aspects of developing new family behaviours?

[Moselle]

OK, so I've been open with the children about disordered behaviour. It didn't go over really well, but I believe the children have the right to know what has/is happening in their lives.

W has indicated that she would prefer that I involved her in such discussions, but as soon as I have one, she goes into victim mode and starts playing on her IPad.

Any success stories out there about involving BPD spouse in the parenting aspects of developing new family behaviours?

[Notwendy]

This is just my opinion as a child of a BPD mom. I think there were two issues that I think were the most damaging growing up, and they were related to denial and dishonesty. To step back a bit- this isn't my parents fault as in their era, mental issues were shameful and something families hid, and mental health was limited. I don't think BPD was even a known diagnosis. My mom has strong denial and projection mechanisms such that saying this would cause her to disregulate. Dad was a strong enabler and if we said anything about mom, or upset her, we'd be punished. We had to pretend she was normal, and feel as if we were responsible for her moods.

So, my two wishes:

1)I wish Dad had been honest with us and explained it and also given me the tools (SET) and others so I knew how best to talk to her ( after a certain age).

2) We had this good dad/bad mom picture. Kids can have black and white thinking- and not be BPD but just young. I wish dad had owned his side of it, explained his own co-dependency and that they both had good qualities and were also with difficulties. I wish we were offered some kind of therapy to deal with our family better. Don't have the kids to be on one parent's side or the other.

We really had some great family times, but much of it was shadowed by mom's moods and lots of fighting.

I don't talk about my H, since he isn't formally diagnosed and is less symptomatic than my mom, but he does dysregulate and it causes problems between us. I am honest with my kids about how I grew up, their grandmother, and we are in marriage T and I attend co-dependency 12 step groups. I think the biggest problem in these kinds of families are the secrets, trying to hide it. The kids know anyway. Be honest about yourself and your struggles- and get the kids help.

Also be careful about TMI. I know you won't do this, by my mom talked about her sexual issues with my dad. That was a form of abuse to a child. Don't say things that would put mom down or information kids should not know.

[formflier]

 

Moselle,

Remind me again... .is there a family T involved?  I'll try to add more later... but basic thought... what I do... is to focus on behaviors and responses... rather that "reasons".

I don't have a formal diagnosis... .so I don't want to suggest anything to the kids.

I think you do have a formal diagnosis... correct?

[Moselle]

A formal diagnosis that is now denied by my W. But she agrees there is a dysfunction/disorder. She believes it's me, however.

Our current therapist is brilliant at bringing this in slowly. She has W admit to rages, losing control etc. There is a focus on accountability on both sides.

I agree on behaviours and responses. Unfortunately D14 is acting very much like her mom. I was out for 10 months figuring this out. D10 actually gets most of it. She's very, very smart. D5 acts out for attention a lot.

They are responding quite well to boundaries, but D14 and D10 have a lot of conflict.

[formflier]

 

Is there a family T involved... .?

Or a MC T?

[sweetheart]

Hi Moselle,

For me the most important issue here is the well-being of the children in any family of a parent with mental health issues. Especially if you're staying and also if the parent with BPD has the majority of direct care/responsibility for the children, it is crucial they are helped to develop coping strategies in order that they can learn to protect themselves from emotional abuse. If your wife is impeding this process in any way then I wouldn't involve her in it. The children's needs are paramount here not hers. Sorry if this is a bit blunt, but I don't believe this is a grey area in as much as if you try and involve the parent with BPD and they are triggered, then do it without them.

My h is dx with PS and co-morbid BPD, with very limited insight. I did not involve him in the decision to talk to our s6, it would just trigger him. When I realised what this illness entailed and I made the decision to stay, protecting my s6's emotional well-being, not my h's was top of my list.

[Notwendy]

I agree completely with protecting the children and that was my highest priority, even more so having been the child.

I don't believe my H would have done anything to upset the kids. He never raged at them, however, he did rage at me in front of them until I decided to be even more co-dependent to keep the rages at bay. This was pretty self destructive emotionally, but I realized I was no longer making decisions for me, but for them as well. When not stressed, my H was loving and generous. By not putting him in the situation where he was on his own with the kids long enough to be stressed, they were able to have a quality relationship. If I needed help with the kids, I hired a sitter. Thankfully we were able to afford that. This is also what my dad did.

My mom is far more symptomatic than my H. My H is not dysregulated most of the time. My mother dysregulates frequently. My H has fortress boundaries, something that bothered me until I realised that they are there for a reason. My attempts to get close to him emotionally would unleash the pain and anger that those boundaries keep in. He keeps it together with the kids, but rages at me. I also ran interference a lot of the time when he did rage, better he rage at me than them.  Mom, on the other hand has very weak boundaries, so she will disregulate with the kids and say just about anything with us. If she and dad were having intimacy issues, she'd yell about them all over the house.

Dad did what he could to protect us when we were little. Again, in his era, there was no real concept of mental health care and there wasn't much outside help available to help him or us manage it. I suspect his issues evolved much like ours did. We were raised by baby sitters. Mom didn't want that job and thankfully he didn't give it to her. Today though, that would be a costly endeavor, but if mom is dysfunctional, having someone who can meet the kids needs, even for a little while would likely help them.

Where he stopped was assuming that once we could take care of ourselves, we could be enlisted as her caretakers too. By age 12, I was another adult in the home in terms of emotionally managing her, but still not to my parents in terms of having to subject to their wishes. I obviously could not move out on my own. I became very codependent, thinking I was responsible for everyone's feelings. I also was old enough to know that something was going on with mom, but nobody would believe me, or affirm me.

[Notwendy]

There was an interesting moment of truth that I recall. I was about 12, and mom was acting childish. I remember realizing then, that I was "older" than her emotionally. It was a strange moment, but I knew it. I used to look at my friends' moms and wonder what it would be like to have a mom like that. Fortunately some of them took me on and were role models.

Having loving mature and healthy role models in your children's lives will help too.

[sweetheart]

I can really relate Notwendy, my h only rages at me never at our son ( but there have been times when s6 has heard things that most children his age would not be exposed to ) and over the last two years when my h has been really really unwell, until he was hospitalised I too ran interference with all his dysregulations. In the last two years I have not left my son solely with his father. Looking after a child is stressful, it is not a risk I am prepared to take until h is a whole lot better. It is not fair on my h or my son. H is slowly improving and last year we did a couple of things as a family again.

This is probably a controversial opinion but I believe it's much easier for children if the parent without BPD is the mum for many many reasons, but that's a whole other topic.

I know our son would love his daddy to be like his friends dads and I can see he has a lot of sadness around this. ( he has a play therapist he sees for emotional support and this is really helping him )

My h's overall functioning has become seriously impaired and I don't know if it will ever return to how it was before he broke down, but the really terrible dysregulations have stopped and so have all the self destructive impulsive behaviours.

You are so right about having lots of loving, healthy, mature role models around. Add to that exposing children to lots of fun, living as much of an ordinary life as possible is a great antidote to the effects of this disorder. It took me a while to grasp the latter though as the descent into madness that my h took completely caught me unawares and I was a deer in headlights for a good while. Not now though.

[Moselle]

So, my two wishes:

1)I wish Dad had been honest with us and explained it and also given me the tools (SET) and others so I knew how best to talk to her ( after a certain age).

2) We had this good dad/bad mom picture. Kids can have black and white thinking- and not be BPD but just young. I wish dad had owned his side of it, explained his own co-dependency and that they both had good qualities and were also with difficulties. I wish we were offered some kind of therapy to deal with our family better. Don't have the kids to be on one parent's side or the other.

NotWendy, thank you for sharing this. What age would you recommend for #1? I have a D14, D10 and D5. I've already spoken about quite a few tools with the children, and a "family dysfunction" rather than a BPD/co-dep thing.

As far as No 2 goes, I'm afraid I'm the one painted black to the kids. She has already exposed them to very inappropriate adult stuff :-( She has 0% control when she rages. My irls are beginning to get it though. My D14 comes to me after a melt down and has a quiet word like "Has she calmed down yet?" or ":)ad, mom didn't cause drama like last time", so she is beginning to understand.

Is there a family T involved... .?

Or a MC T?

We have a very able MC. There are so many things to deal with however. The latest W wants is a sex therapist. Add to that, my therapist, her therapist, and I really want my D14 to start DBT. I have little patience, interest, money left over for a familyT.  Do you have any thoughts on priorities?

I've been at the therapy game for 4 years now. And it is a game for her. She has realised that its comfortable to get a therapist. Like the sex thing, She is terrified of intimacy. OK lets get a sex therapist. They are great to talk to, and in a way as long as she is in therapy it looks like she is working at it. She's clever enough to run rings around most of them, and those she can't, get discarded. Except for the current MC. Perhaps W picks up that I'm actually very close to calling quits on this whole darn fiasco.

Hi Moselle,

For me the most important issue here is the well-being of the children in any family of a parent with mental health issues. Especially if you're staying and also if the parent with BPD has the majority of direct care/responsibility for the children, it is crucial they are helped to develop coping strategies in order that they can learn to protect themselves from emotional abuse. If your wife is impeding this process in any way then I wouldn't involve her in it. The children's needs are paramount here not hers. Sorry if this is a bit blunt, but I don't believe this is a grey area in as much as if you try and involve the parent with BPD and they are triggered, then do it without them.

My h is dx with PS and co-morbid BPD, with very limited insight. I did not involve him in the decision to talk to our s6, it would just trigger him. When I realised what this illness entailed and I made the decision to stay, protecting my s6's emotional well-being, not my h's was top of my list.

Thanks sweetheart. I recognise this and appreciate your bluntness. It is crucial to teach them coping mechanism's and I just do it in front of her now. And when she starts to act like a child and become all distracted, I ask for her opinion or support in the discussion. To her credit, she is starting to respond. Reluctantly, but starting.

There was an interesting moment of truth that I recall. I was about 12, and mom was acting childish. I remember realizing then, that I was "older" than her emotionally. It was a strange moment, but I knew it. I used to look at my friends' moms and wonder what it would be like to have a mom like that. Fortunately some of them took me on and were role models.

Having loving mature and healthy role models in your children's lives will help too.

NotWendy, That must have a tough moment - to realise you were emotionally more mature. My eldest 2 are in a similar position, and they can learn quicker than her. It's becoming quite complicated. My W actually had a moment of honesty and apologized for the damage she has done to her self esteem. She had a dysregulation yesterday and I realised that she sees me as a good father to undo all the damage she has done. Its really that simple to her. I'm an object - a convenient and good father to her children, not a person with wants, needs and feelings.

This is probably a controversial opinion but I believe it's much easier for children if the parent without BPD is the mum for many many reasons, but that's a whole other topic.

I know our son would love his daddy to be like his friends dads and I can see he has a lot of sadness around this. ( he has a play therapist he sees for emotional support and this is really helping him )

I think anywhere BPD shows up is difficult. I'm facing this problem right now though. I've taken a new job role where I will be required to travel a fair bit. It's already a battle for my children's mental health. And my time with them will now be at a premium.

[Notwendy]

Well, I am not a T so this isn't professional advice, but I wish my Dad had validated my perceptions. I think how much information to give is in accordance with how much they ask. When a 2 year old asks "where babies come from?" It's not appropriate to go into all the details- and "From mommy's tummy" is usually sufficient. Later on though, it needs to be explained better.My kids were older when I talked to them about grandma, and so, I was able to discuss what BPD was.

The damage was invalidating my perception, and leading me to believe that if only I behaved better, mom would not do this. I honestly thought that I was the reason that my parents had problems, because that is what mom told me and dad wouldn't discuss what was going on. I'm not sure he knew at the time exactly what was going on, but I wish he'd affirmed my perceptions, because I had a very poor sense of self when I left home, and this made me very vulnerable to relationships where I was also invalidated and adopted the other person's point of view. I also felt that I had to work very hard at making the other person happy in order to be loved.

With my own kids, I validate their feelings and their perceptions. That doesn't mean I take their side if they are accountable for something. "My teacher doesn't like me" is not a valid reason for not doing homework. However, I acknowlege their reality and boundaries. Fortunately my H holds it together most of the time, although, with the post I made of the incident where he lost control, I did not hide the fact that we were having problems. I didn't say much more because I didn't know at the time. I did not let them think this was normal.  This is something my mom says after she rages " All families argue" well- not like that.

Your kids will see that there is something wrong with mom. What they can't see is your side of it- because you are the caretaker- which is naturally the more calm and competent role. Kids will see this as bad mom/good dad. It's interesting because I was going through some old school stuff of my kids ( not their personal stuff) and found notes "please don't fight" "mom and dad need to divorce" which indicated to me that as much as I wanted to keep them from our marital issues, they knew. They also had some signs of stress as kids, but once I got a grip on the fighting, they seemed calmer. The most sobering note was one to their father " it is not your fault- it is mom's" which is chilling. When their father got triggered, they saw it as me doing it to their dad. One reason this happens is that my H has a very calm controlled demeanor. He appears perfect to them. This makes me sad because the appearance that there is nothing wrong IMHO is more damaging than admitting something is.

Sweetheart mentioned the idea that it is probably better when the mom does not have BPD, because in a traditional family model, it is the mom who is taking care of the kids. Fortunately, my H left that to me. So I made a point of letting them see me as fully human, with good points and mistakes, and not holding them to perfectionist ideals. It is hard for a dad to be both breadwinner and caretaker, but when it comes to feelings and affirmation, you will need to do that job. Let other mothers into your children's lives. This will be hard on your wife who might feel threatened, but a little goes a long way. I was able to visit my aunts- who mothered me- and I am actually closer to my aunt emotionally than to my mom, even though I saw her less. My friends' mothers were also good role models.

As they got older, they got more information. They don't ask about Dad, and I don't think they want to know. They are dating some now, and so I tell them to trust their instincts about a person, that if they feel bad around someone, or are blamed for that person's feelings, to trust themselves that something isn't right. I have also been open about my co dependency 12 step group and told them that it is available if they ever felt they wanted to do something like that. I don't attach shame to being human. I am also careful about their boundaries. TMI is too much.

[Cole]

Our s11 is PDD (autistic spectrum) and has a counselor. I have explained wife's bipolar dx to him, though based on what I have described he seems to agree with me and another counselor at this practice who wife saw briefly last year that she is more likely BPD.

This week we will be meeting with son's T together for the first time. She is not aware, but his goal is to explain how much her BPD and bipolar are affecting our son and help edge her toward getting counseling herself.

Formflyer brought it up earlier in the thread, and I have to agree. Addressing a parent's MI with children is something best handled by a professional family counselor.     

[Notwendy]

I agree that the parent should not explain the other parent's disorder or make some kind of triangular situation where it is normal dad and kids, and abnormal mom. We all know how triangular relationships are part of something dysfunctional. It also parentifies children.

However, a T is not there all the time to validate a child's perception. Mom could rage in the evening and the next day, she and dad would pretend nothing happened. This made me very likely to go along with a similar thing in my relationship. It is a form of gaslighting.

What happened did happen. So I would ask mom " why were you drunk last night" and she'd say "because you made me drink" and then I'd ask dad " why was mom drunk last night? " and he wouldn't explain it, or pretend it didn't happen. So as a child, I really did doubt my own reality, much like I did in my marriage.

You can't hide drinking when the empty bottles are there and we always knew when mom was drunk. I can tell if someone has been drinking- even if it is only one glass. I can smell alcohol on someone's breath even accross the room. It's amazing what heightened senses a kid can develop when it means survival to them.

Dad didn't have to make mom the bad guy or explain a lot to me, but he could have validated my feelings and perceptions. " Yes, honey, mom drank too much last night, and I know this is scary. We are getting help for this. I want you to know that this isn't your fault and that I love you. Mom does too but she doesn't always show it. I know you heard her say mean things about you, but they are not true. She says them when she is mad or upset but they are not about you. They are her hurt feelings coming out. This is why we are getting help"

I realize that my father was probably not capable of doing this, not just about my mom, but about feelings. Sometimes he did validate them. I recall one time as a teen being upset about something- not even about my parents, and trying to tell them about it. They really seemed clueless about how I felt. I felt as if the "real me" was invisible to them. What was "real' to them was only the perception they chose to have of me.

When my kids tell me about something they are upset about- a friend is being mean, or they are disappointed, or anything they are feeling, I validate the feelings. If they say something happened and it is true, I validate that to.

You can validate your kids' day to day perceptions. If there is a parent that doesn't do that, then at least one parent has to.

My in laws are very invalidating. No feelings talk is allowed in the house. If someone said something about feelings, the reply would be " you didn't feel that" ":)on't say that".

Does anyone remember the Tommy album by the Who?  There is a part where Tommy's father comes home from the war to find the mother with a new boyfriend. Mother assumed the husband was dead. The boyfriend shoots the husband. They realize that Tommy ( about age 2) saw it, so they turn to him and say " You didn't see it you didn't hear it you won't say nothing at all about what you know is the truth".  I get the chills when I hear that song as it so resinated with me.

Thankfully, nobody murdered anyone or anything near that, but when there were empty bottles around, we knew mom was drinking.

[vortex of confusion]

I have talked to my oldest daughter (13) about what is going on with dad. It has been a process that has involved lots and lots of validation. Our 10 year doesn't really care what is going on. It seems like in her mind it all boils down to ":)ad is a jerk." The younger two have found their own ways of coping with dad. The 7 year old gives him lots of attention and the 6 year old has pretty much avoided him most of her life.

There have been times when the girls and I have talked, as a group, about dad and his behaviors. It is along the lines of "I know dad does these things and I know how hurtful it is. That kind of behavior is NOT okay. He is your dad and should act like a dad rather than a child. I know this but I don't know what to do about it." I try to make sure the kids know that I acknowledge what is going on. There was a time when I had my head so far up my butt that I was not validating the kids when they had problems with dad. And, no matter how hard I have tried, there is the I am the good mom and he is the bad dad.

One of the things that I have had to deal with is the fact that d13 will get in these moods where she will deliberately push dad's buttons to get him to rage. She thinks it is so funny.

[Notwendy]

Ironically, this validation is what I didn't do with my mom and my H. For years, my mom's dysregulations scared me so much that I couldn't respond in a healthy way. I either tried to explain, run away, or get very upset. With my H, it was more confusing since he would ridicule my need for validation and say he didn't need it. His responses to my being upset were " you're wrong, you shouldn't feel that way" . As you can imagine, this is one crazy making interaction for both sides.

It took a long time for me to not fear my mother, and also she had an accomplice- Dad. So if she raged, both of them would. I was able to detatch from my mother, but not my dad. Now, I am not afraid of my mom, and when she dysregulates, I can validate her feelings. I haven't tried this yet with my H ( still new here) but I plan to.

You can model validation for your kids and let them see you validating your wife. When they are older, they can be taught how to do this. I can only imagine how much better our family relationships might have been had we known this, but this information was not available when I was a child.

[Notwendy]

Vortex, it is good that your kids have strong boundaries and don't react to your H's rage by letting it alter their reality. I am grateful that my kids have a stronger sense of self than I did at their age.

[Cole]

Good point that a T is not there when the BPD parent is raging. I do not ignore her raging, but really am at the end of my rope as to how to handle it with the kids. That is where I think the T can be of value on how to deal with this for the kids.

D9 knows there is something wrong with mom. Her way of dealing is to pretend it did not happen. Not healthy. I have tried to talk to her about it, but she just closes it out.

S11 acts the same way wife does, so to him it is normal. Also not a good thing.

I laid down the law that she gets professional help and I see improvement by June or we are done. Neither of the kids need to be exposed to this anymore. So far, she seems to be interested in this plan.      

[Notwendy]

Cole, the fact that you are protecting the kids will go a long way.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, it is good that your kids have strong boundaries and don't react to your H's rage by letting it alter their reality. I am grateful that my kids have a stronger sense of self than I did at their age.

I don't know that it doesn't alter their reality to some degree. I do know that there are times when he has tried to deny their reality and they have come to me to have it validated.

For example, one day, he got our daughter a drink in a dirty glass and it had icky stuff floating on it. She tried to point it out and he got mad and started raging and said that he didn't see it and should drink it anyway. She brought the cup to me. I took one look at it, saw what she was talking about, and proceeded to pour it out and got her a new cup and a new drink. He backed down and got all sheepish and swore up and down that he didn't see the ick.

And, I know that if I am not home, the kids will help each other. I know there was one time when I was gone and one of the kids had a problem and he couldn't handle it and it was escalating into an ugly situation. The oldest stepped in and helped her sister calm down and "saved" dad as it were.

And, modeling validation as a family and talking about how different people have different perceptions of things can be helpful without focusing on the mental illness or making the other parent out to be "bad". For a while, I was wrestling with the fact that my husband was inadvertantly painting me out as somebody that was mean. If I was napping, he would yell at the kids to not bother me and tell them that I would get mad, blah, blah, blah. It took a while but I finally got through to him that it would be better if he focused on the fact that they shouldn't bug me because I needed sleep. It was about being nice to one another rather than setting up a situation where the kids were acting from a place of fear. I have been trying to refocus things so that everyone in the house is focused more on "how can we help each other."

My husband has diabetes and I can talk openly about how that impacts dad's behaviors. Since he has been diagnosed, if he goes to raging, the kids will ask him, ":)ad have you checked your blood sugar lately." In my mind, it is about finding ways to empower ALL members of the household. If the kids and dad have a disagreement due to differences in perception, then I can validate the perception without validating the behavior. One of the things that I have been repeating a lot lately is, "It is okay to be angry but it is not okay to act on that anger in ways that are going to hurt other people." It doesn't matter if it is the parent or the child, it applies to everyone.

[Notwendy]

"It is okay to be angry but it is not okay to act on that anger in ways that are going to hurt other people." It doesn't matter if it is the parent or the child, it applies to everyone.

This is a good one. It validates that someone can be angry and also that a hurtful response isn't appropriate.

[Cole]

I agree that the parent should not explain the other parent's disorder or make some kind of triangular situation where it is normal dad and kids, and abnormal mom. We all know how triangular relationships are part of something dysfunctional. It also parentifies children.

Absolutely on the mark pertaining to triangulation.

We had some serious triangulation going on here the last few years to the point where W accused me of trying to get the kids to be against her. 

I put it as plain as I could: "I take them hiking, biking, and camping. We go to playgrounds, parks, boy scouts, girl scouts, and other fun things. You tell them to go find something to do while you sit in front of the computer and play on FB. Who is turning them against you? Me or you?" 

Fortunately, this struck a chord with her and she has been much more engaged lately. But it is hard not to have that triangulation when the BPD partner does everything to turn the kids against them all on their own.

[Notwendy]

It happens anyway. At times my H has resented my close relationship with the kids, but I think it is projection because since he was not interested in doing the tasks of child care, I am with them most of the time.

They are going to figure out who is the most functional parent on their own, but that is different than you initiating the "us against her" formation. They may even decide the other parent is to blame as my kids did over an argument they heard. I think, over time, I have shown them that I am consistent and functional by my actions, not words.

My mom triangulates. Teaming up as an "us against them" is a validation and also way to connect. It is not healthy. My mom would often confide in a family member about another member and announce that "she is on my side" as if we were on sides. I try to avoid this kind of thing.

[Moselle]

My wife plays the "us versus him" game, with my three daughters. Unfortunately D14 has taken to it and starts getting disrespectful towards me. D10 and D5 still want to be close to me.

I just came out today and clarified that I am not some "bolt on" father. My W really thinks that she and the girls are the 'family' and I am separate because she told me  . I said "I'm not willing to be treated that way". Now its my job to just insert myself.

As mentioned before, it's so difficult to manage this perception. I am the sole bread winner and I work hard, so she has the time with the children to create this atmosphere. It's so frustrating.  She treats them one way and I come home trying to teach then healthy behaviours.   

[Notwendy]

A bit about the TMI poor boundaries. This got a bit awkward at puberty when mom told dad to take me to the drugstore to buy sanitary napkins for me. This is not something a teen girl wants to discuss with dad, and also my brother reports that it was very strange talking to mom about some things.

I think it is fine for both parents to be able to discuss topics such as puberty, reproduction, contraception, STD's if it can be done in an objective way with strong boundaries. It's when the boundaries are weak that it gets iffy. This is where trusted friends or relatives can step in to help.

[Notwendy]

Moselle, do the best you can. Its all one can do. I hope you can see from my posts that I can see that my parents did the best they could. 

I worry about some of the dysfunction my kids were subjected to, but we only know what we know at the time. The tools for BPD here work for kids too. Radical acceptance for who they are, honesty, speaking your truth, validation all go a long way. Some kids are more vulnerable than others, but in general kids are also pretty strong, and smart.

Your kids can learn how to act when with mom, and also when with dad, and with others. It was a shock to hear that my kids knew a lot more than I thought they did when there was fighting in the house, but saying I'm sorry was better than pretending it didn't happen.

[Hawk Ridge]

My expwBPD doesn't have any children of her own.  In relationship before me, she rode her partner's children hard, overly critical of everything they did, ranging from cleaning up well enough in the bathroom to how to properly inflate a basketball.  When we were together, neither one of us had children but she was very moody and overly critical towards me as I am an optimist and quiet cheerful. She said I was "childlike." She rode me so much I was nervous all the time, my hands shook, and now i am being treated for PTSD as I am fearful of all my mistakes... .any mistake was intolerable.  My replacement has 5 children, one still at home, and one grandchild.  I think of these kids a lot and hope the replacement stands up for them.  In reading this, I feel bad for my replacement as this relationship could place a stress on the relationship between the replacement and the kids if history stands.

[DreamFlyer99]

Such an interesting thread!

Moselle, in my family of origin nobody talked about anything really. So I was left to form ideas about life as best I could, with the flawed thinking of a child. Then I carried that flawed thinking into a marriage that turned out to be just a different version of my childhood drama.

I wish somebody had talked with me. I feel like the perfect picture of our family would have been of me sitting on the couch next to my grandma, both of us looking straight ahead and not speaking, her with her arm around me. She at least accepted and loved me, even though she didn't explain things either.

I grew up with the idea of my mother as two entirely different people--the mean one and the nice one. They were so polar opposite I couldn't make sense of them being part of the same person. I was in my 30s and talking to a therapist to finally understand she was of a whole yet such different parts of her.

I don't know how these things could be accomplished with your children, but I know it would have helped me to understand that her widely different selves were of a piece. I went into adulthood with very black and white thinking. My father was a functional alcoholic and didn't talk to me but very rarely, and never about our family.

I love the validation concept others have brought up, validating the feelings of your children. I didn't know how to do that with mine and they're grown now, and some have figured things out on their own but some haven't. I do wish i'd been able to see the truth of my relationship as others of you have!

[livednlearned]

This is just my opinion as a child of a BPD mom. I think there were two issues that I think were the most damaging growing up, and they were related to denial and dishonesty.

This has been so true for me. I'm divorced from my N/BPDx, so it's a little different, but I think what worked for us could apply whether you're living together or not. I've learned so much about this from these boards, although I'm still a work in progress when it comes to figuring out how much honesty is the right amount, and how do my own issues come into play.

There is something more to validation that I have a hard time articulating, that I haven't been able to describe very well. When my T helped me see it, I saw how it was really my own issue, sort of in overreaction to what was going on with S13's dad.

It's about being authentic in our feelings without putting too much responsibility on our kids, definitely a fine balancing act. I struggled with this because N/BPDx was so inappropriate in what he shared with S13, so I overcompensated and kind of erased my own vulnerability, and that sort of isolated S13. So yes, I validated him, but I also didn't model healthy vulnerability.

I wanted S13 to know that I had things under control, which spun off it's own dynamic that I'm still trying to repair. I kept telling him, "Your job is to be a kid" because I wanted him to feel free to have a normal childhood, at least when he was with me. In a book by Bill Eddy about raising resilient kids (when one parent is mentally ill), he talks about how important it is for our kids that we model flexible thinking, managed emotions, and moderate behaviors. The book is written for people going through high-conflict divorces in an effort to minimize the conflict for the kids, but I think the message is the same whether you're living together or not.

So the big thing I learned is to be vulnerable in what I hope is the right amount. If I don't understand why his dad did something, I say so. If I don't know what is going to happen, I tell him I feel uncertain, and I don't particularly like that feeling, but I know that I can turn to other adults for help if I'm stuck. I'm glad I have people I can talk to and share what I'm going through."

Does that make sense? Yes, validate how they feel. But also be authentic and honest about how you feel, without adultifying them, by letting them know that you talk to other adults and that helps a lot.

If I had to say it in one sentence, it's that you can't raise an emotionally resilient kid if you don't know how to be an emotionally resilient adult.  

We have some good resources in Lesson 5 to the right about Raising Resilient Kids When a Parent Has BPD. ---------->

[formflier]

  but I also didn't model healthy vulnerability.

Can you discuss this  some more?   How do you define healthy vulnerability... .?

What does it look like to a kid?

[livednlearned]

 but I also didn't model healthy vulnerability.

Can you discuss this  some more?   How do you define healthy vulnerability... .?

What does it look like to a kid?

Brene Brown wrote about it this way:


The Wholehearted Parenting Manifesto



Above all else, I want you to know that you are loved and lovable. You will learn this from my words and actions--the lessons on love are in how I treat you and how I treat myself.

I want you to engage with the world from a place of worthiness. You will learn that you are worthy of love, belonging, and joy every time you see me practice self-compassion and embrace my own imperfections.

We will practice courage in our family by showing up, letting ourselves be seen, and honoring vulnerability. We will share our stories of struggle and strength. There will always be room in our home for both.

We will teach you compassion by practicing compassion with ourselves first; then with each other. We will set and respect boundaries; we will honor hard work, hope, and perseverance. Rest and play will be family values, as well as family practices.

You will learn accountability and respect by watching me make mistakes and make amends, and by watching how I ask for what

I need and talk about how I feel.

I want you to know joy, so together we will practice gratitude.

I want you to feel joy, so together we will learn how to be vulnerable.

When uncertainty and scarcity visit, you will be able to draw from the spirit that is a part of our everyday life.

Together we will cry and face fear and grief. I will want to take away your pain, but instead I will sit with you and teach you how to feel it.

We will laugh and sing and dance and create. We will always have permission to be ourselves with each other. No matter what, you will always belong here.

As you begin your Wholehearted journey, the greatest gift that I can give to you is to live and love with my whole heart and to dare greatly.

I will not teach or love or show you anything perfectly, but I will let you see me, and I will always hold sacred the gift of seeing you. Truly, deeply, seeing you.