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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Does ex Like to tell you how well things are going at Their House  (Read 361 times)
scraps66
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« on: January 17, 2015, 07:07:49 AM »

Of late it seems like my ex has been "informing" me of how well the kids are doing while at her house.  Along with this she is with more frequency telling me what they should be doing while at my house.  We have an S10 who has some behavioral issues and she claims to "advocate" for him with his school.  What this means is that she "sticks up for him" by attacking school personnel for how they handle him when he acts out. Things like talking back to the principal, talking back to his aid, and one instance of spitting on another child.  This all in the last two months and coincident with our last coparent counseling session where I aired some of the bad things I was observing. 

It seems some of this can be triggered by things I say in honesty.  Current example, last week's wrestling meet, I say that S10 is in good shape, but that he had been saying he didn't want to go to wrestling.  Last weekend I had them and took them to the wrestling meet.  So this weekend, our S7 was sick yesterday and now still this morning, and she tells me that he's sick and so is ex, but that S10 is really excited about the wrestling meet and her boyfriend is bringing him.

I have many more examples of this over the last two months to call this a pattern.  I know there is little that can be done in engaging her with this dialogue.  But curious if anyone else experiences this and if there is anything I shold be doing beyond the consistency I've been using.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2015, 08:04:14 AM »

My exgf potrays a picture of perfection. The house she is renting is so much nicer than mine, warmer than mine etc etc. Our son is eating and sleeping so well. Everything is great.

The reality I believe is a lot different. Son is shatteted when I get him and just wants to sleep. Last night was the first time in montgs that he didnt sleep through for me. She says he sleeps through but when I check my fb in the morning she has normally been on at 3 am. Her boyfriend is a lot older than her so her aquaintances think she is a bit weird. She is having drama as rumour has it she has been cheating on her bf with her landlord and his girlfriend confronted exgf in school playground. She is losing aquaintances fast as people are pulling away from her.  it wouldnt suprise me if she is about to do a dissapearing act. Well at least move away from all the drama she has caused.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2015, 08:03:41 PM »

I have many more examples of this over the last two months to call this a pattern.  I know there is little that can be done in engaging her with this dialogue.  But curious if anyone else experiences this and if there is anything I shold be doing beyond the consistency I've been using.

Her behavior sounds like narcissism. My T seemed to think my ex was both NPD and BPD, the narcissism because of the paranoia to be less than, and the psychosis because there is no solid sense of self. The narcissistic parts made sense because it did seem like S13 was an object, not a person, to N/BPDx. Like S13 was an extension of himself. He used to do that to me before being split black. N/BPDx would take minor accomplishments of mine and exaggerate them to the point of absurdity or embarrassment. Your ex may have a hard time distinguishing between S10 and herself, so anything that implies imperfection or being "less than" is intolerable, and her defense mechanisms kick in.

Dealing with narcissists by reinforcing the positive

It took me a long time to compose messages that were positive about S13 (because S13=N/BPDx), while also getting across whatever needed to be said (S13 does not want to play the ukulele). If I was successful one time, I failed the next 9. The only thing I can think of for your situation is to focus on getting S10 what he wants while feeding something to your ex. For example, "S10 is very athletic and fit, and does well at wrestling. He has expressed interest in track and may have the kind of stamina to be an excellent runner. He's going to try track next."

I don't know how that would go over. My son wanted nothing to do with anything that N/BPDx wanted him to do -- too much like being consumed, I think. But I would sometimes say things like, "S13 has your musicality and a really nice voice, he wants to apply these skills to theater instead of ukulele lessons for now, although perhaps later he can return to uke. He likes being in a troupe."

I found that if we were anywhere near a legal action, none of this worked. 
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2015, 10:33:09 PM »

My ex used to do things like this a lot more than now since I stopped taking the bait. Maybe it is still the same frequency but I just don't pay as much attention to it.  I don't know if she was trying to bait me, trying to convince herself things were better without me, or projecting her fears by twisting reality by saying the opposite of what she was thinking (feeling).

My ex does a lot of projection. I didn't pick up on it when we were together but it stands out clearly to me now. Now when she sends an email telling me how great things are I can usually count on one or both boys venting the next time I see them. The pieces fit together pretty good.
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whirlpoollife
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 12:16:05 AM »

Not directly now,  but in marriage, h upstaged me with everything.  With kids he would let them know covertly how much better he is than mom.

Last summer I took the kids to a vacation town . Then h took the kids to a different but similar town.   Kids liked both.  Recently, kids said dads vacation town is soo much better.  It was h talking through the kids.   Was same  with our places of residence, not from h directly to me but through kids.  We do have to stay on top of it though, because being passive will let the pwPD brainwash the kids.   

Her saying her boyfriend is taking S10 to meet is an in your face comment because  she knows you and S like to go together. If you are able , maybe  go to meet also .  Then talk about it  with S later on the phone.

Your replies will help me also , but ... .near legal actions , it's definitely more so , and nothing works at the moment . 

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"Courage is when you know your're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." ~ Harper Lee
Ulysses
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2015, 12:59:33 AM »



whirlpoollife:

Excerpt
Recently, kids said dads vacation town is soo much better.  It was h talking through the kids.   Was same  with our places of residence, not from h directly to me but through kids.  We do have to stay on top of it though, because being passive will let the pwPD brainwash the kids.   

Do you have some examples you can offer, or resources to point to, to explain a little more about how you keep on top of these things?  I'm beginning to see a little of this with my ex (e.g. Christmas gifts and candy, candy, candy).  I let it go at this point but I have wondered if there will come a time when it gets too much to let go.  Thanks.
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Ulysses
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2015, 01:13:44 AM »

Wow, Livednlearned, what you said really resonates with me. 

Excerpt
Her behavior sounds like narcissism. My T seemed to think my ex was both NPD and BPD, the narcissism because of the paranoia to be less than, and the psychosis because there is no solid sense of self. The narcissistic parts made sense because it did seem like S13 was an object, not a person, to N/BPDx. Like S13 was an extension of himself. He used to do that to me before being split black. N/BPDx would take minor accomplishments of mine and exaggerate them to the point of absurdity or embarrassment. Your ex may have a hard time distinguishing between S10 and herself, so anything that implies imperfection or being "less than" is intolerable, and her defense mechanisms kick in.

My ex seems also to be both NPD and BPD, for the same reasons as you state.  My current attorney told me the two are very different and it's one or the other.  I don't really agree with that but I didn't push it because I don't really know.  I imagine it's on a continuum and no mutually exclusive?  Also, like your ex, he would take minor accomplishments of mine and exaggerate them until I was so embarrassed and would have to correct his statements when I would meet people that he had talked to first, because they thought I was a professional artist when it was just an avocation.  This is so helpful to read what you wrote because it helps me connect the dots with his distortion campaign.  It's the same thing as exaggerating accomplishments to the point of absurdity, just in the other direction.  Thank you, this really provides an "ah-ha" moment for me and a new way of thinking about the terrible things he says about me and leads people to believe about me.  Smoke and mirrors indeed.  Please excuse me if I should post this elsewhere since I think I'm off-topic from the original post.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2015, 10:12:24 AM »

My current attorney told me the two are very different and it's one or the other.  I don't really agree with that but I didn't push it because I don't really know.  I imagine it's on a continuum and no mutually exclusive? 

I haven't seen a post on coparenting about the different strategies needed depending on whether your ex is NPD or BPD, so that would be interesting. 

The way I see it, NPD is about an extreme sensitivity to inferiority. BPD is extreme sensitivity to abandonment. The defense mechanisms are different, and so is the conception of self. NPD creates a grandiose or false self. BPD uses others to create an identity, and they lack a stable sense of self. The self is outside mingled up with others, which is why they don't think well in terms of consequences and seem impulsive. If you don't have a stable self, consequences are a strange concept. Someone with BPD once described it as narcissists are movie stars; pwBPD are actors/actresses that take on roles. 

My ex doesn't quite fit NPD, nor does he quite fit BPD, but it almost doesn't matter. I just wanted to figure out what the defense mechanisms were and what triggered them about so I could try to respond accordingly, in the hopes that it would minimize conflict and/or obstruction.

Can't say I ever found it easy to do.





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enlighten me
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2015, 10:41:41 AM »

My exgf fits BPD to a t but also dispays npd traits. I can see how npd fits well with BPD as my ex dispays grandiose ideas about herself. This image fits nicely into her fear of abandonment as why would you not want to be with someone so perfect?
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scraps66
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2015, 11:42:03 AM »

The NPD part exists for me big time too, along with BPD.  Not sure how a clinician can say that it is one or the other because the lines between the diagnoses are not exactly "crisp."

With the exception of exaggerating my accomplishments, I have all of the other behaviors you all mention going on as well.

To take this further, S10 appears to be compelled to "like" whatever ex gets him into, for a period at least.  With some of these activities, viola, baseball, wrestling, you can tell S10s heart is just not in it and he is involved only for the period he is at the activity, but shows no interest at home in any of these activities.  These are all activities that ex discussed with S10 prior to notifying me.  This has been a topic of conversation in our coparent counseling.  Our last session I got so infuriated with the continued lies, projection and distortions that the counselor ended the session.

The sense of self and how S10's behavior reflects on ex is very prominent as well.  Over the last two months S10 has digressed having some significant incidents at school involving yelling at the principal, walking away from the principal, spitting on another child, etc.  In all of these incidents ex has rationalized these behaviors as acceptable, and discussed with S10, things that sound like, "this sort of thing happens all the time in school," or that he is made because he has an aid, resents this, and acts out. Or, she feels S10 is not being treated "fairly" by school personnel.  Some of these things ex says, I have also heard out of S10s mouth.  Not a coincidence.   

Another thing that has happened lately, S10 was re-evaluated recently to requalify for wraparound services.  This time round the Dr. diagnosis him with impulse control and conduct disorder, possibly anxiety disorder.  The previous diagnosis, asperger's, was one that ex had made herself and then it turned out that the diagnosing doctor did ADOS testing and, yes, he was Asperger's.  Until now ex has been completely unengaged with the wraparound services.  However she did bother to read the new diagnosis and objected, said it wasn't "correct" that he was on the autism spectrum.  Imagine that, an NPD/BPD making a diagnosis.

Incidentally, with all of the paper work we have filled out for the kids, ex never admits to being ADHD or being on anti-depressants. 

As far as what to do, I have discussed this with our wraparound services consultant, her take is that the greatest hope is that at some time S10 realizes he is not his mother, and vice versa.  So this is what I have to find out about, how to bring this on in a sensitive way. 
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whirlpoollife
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2015, 03:42:00 PM »

Scraps66, you are in a difficult situation. First dealing with your ex and also with a son with asbergers.   Do you have to inform Exw for everything you do with S. ? I ask this because you spoke with the wrap around consultant.  Can you work directly with those involved with your S and at same time ignore your exw, think of it as you are the single parent looking out for the best interest of your child.  She will rant and rave but stay focused with the other people.

Ulysses , the book, ":)ivorce Poison" is helpful. I loaned it out so I can't quote any of it.

First, validate the kids feelings. (I learned about that here) . i e , candy.  " oh candy is so yummy". Let's kids agree, you pause, then go to subject matter. " too much candy is not good for a growing body... .If kids are in school, refer to the food pyramid. Not too much explaining though.   Give them a candy, so it's not just ex they are getting it from, but that they  understand after a healthy meal. Be consistent on it.

As for different vacation spots, it hurt me because I was so happy to take the kids somewhere different and we did have a good time.   But I validated by saying yes, your other vacation spot is fun... .but each spot has its qualities and they are different from each other. 

I took pictures of it and kids and I together there and make it visable. Frame it, photo album or digital album, or scrapbook pics  together .  I don't do it as an in your face type of thing but as a don't let h's  words and self take over kids thoughts so they forget our time together.

As for Christmas presents, that's one area I don't worry about. H wasn't /isn't a gift giver.

For our different homes, the first place h was at had a pool. He used that to his advantage.  Dad has a pool, mom doesn't .   I told kids that I'm glad they can go swimming .   Later on I asked about swimming, no real answers.  last summer i asked, and answer was no swimming.  I  assumed landlord had something to do with that.   H has new place, no pool. I say to kids, " oh darn, you guys are going to really miss a swimming pool this summer".   It just lets their minds think.

I hope this helps, and thanks scrapps66 for the digression.



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