"I think you are lying and will check when I get home"... is what she said...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So... I'm still sorting this out in my head... .so I'll just tell the story in my rambling style... and hope for some direction from you guys.

I've been sick for a few days... .woke up feeling great.  Asked wife if she wanted to go for a walk with me.  She drug her feet getting ready... but we went.  I told her I felt good and wanted to go for a walk.

Anyway... .a minute out the door... .the questions started about why go for a walk.  She seemed calm... but the questions seemed "probing" to me.  I told her I had already answered that question... .but would be happy to answer again.  That I felt good and wanted to walk and "loosen up" in the morning. 

W:"Why didn't you walk earlier... ?"

FF:"I didn't feel like it... was sick... "

W:  "So why now... ?"

FF:  "I don't know if I have any more to add to what I've already said... "

some quiet time walking... couple minutes

FF:  "I hope to get a good walking habit going again.  My weight is down after sickness... and at my last physical my weight was my biggest issue the dr brought up... ."

W:  "but that appointment was months ago... .why now... "

FF:  "That appointment was less than two weeks ago... .I've been sick a bunch since then... "

W:  "Well at your last dr appointment your weight was an issue and you haven't walked much since then... "

FF:  "That's simply not true... ."

W:  "Your last appointment was months ago and weight was issue then... ."

FF:  "My last appointment... .before the one a couple weeks ago... .was over a year ago... .I'm confused... .what appointments are you talking about... "

silence and walking

FF:  I'm grumpy about FF daughter not telling me that she stopped taking medicine for asthma.  I've been asking her each day how it's going... I think she should mention it.  I would like to have consulted doctor before stopping the medicine.

W:  She had a reaction... .what was she supposed to do

FF:  Mention it to us... so we can call doctor.  That's why I asked her several times a day if she was ok... how her cough was... etc etc... .so she had a chance to talk to us.  I hadn't heard about the rash.

W:  So you asked her how she was doing yesterday?

FF:  Yes... I did

W:  I think you are lying and I will ask FF daughter when we get home

I turned and walked the other way to go back home.  I didn't look back.

She walked up behind me as was grumbing... .venting... .I didn't hear half of what she was saying. 

I had decided to go home.  As we got close she told me... ."I'm going home... you go on and have your walk... "  I didn't respond.

I walked in door... .stretched out... .did some situps.

She came back in room and I started a conversation about something else.  She was fairly responsive... .

So... .What the heck? 

I think that I should have cut the conversation or the walk at the first time that she asked a repetitive question.  That is usually a sign that something is up.

Any ideas?

I want to find time later when it is calm and address this with her. 

There was no yelling... .no "abusive tone"... .maybe a slight edge or something to her. 

[formflier]

So... I'm still sorting this out in my head... .so I'll just tell the story in my rambling style... and hope for some direction from you guys.

I've been sick for a few days... .woke up feeling great.  Asked wife if she wanted to go for a walk with me.  She drug her feet getting ready... but we went.  I told her I felt good and wanted to go for a walk.

Anyway... .a minute out the door... .the questions started about why go for a walk.  She seemed calm... but the questions seemed "probing" to me.  I told her I had already answered that question... .but would be happy to answer again.  That I felt good and wanted to walk and "loosen up" in the morning. 

W:"Why didn't you walk earlier... ?"

FF:"I didn't feel like it... was sick... "

W:  "So why now... ?"

FF:  "I don't know if I have any more to add to what I've already said... "

some quiet time walking... couple minutes

FF:  "I hope to get a good walking habit going again.  My weight is down after sickness... and at my last physical my weight was my biggest issue the dr brought up... ."

W:  "but that appointment was months ago... .why now... "

FF:  "That appointment was less than two weeks ago... .I've been sick a bunch since then... "

W:  "Well at your last dr appointment your weight was an issue and you haven't walked much since then... "

FF:  "That's simply not true... ."

W:  "Your last appointment was months ago and weight was issue then... ."

FF:  "My last appointment... .before the one a couple weeks ago... .was over a year ago... .I'm confused... .what appointments are you talking about... "

silence and walking

FF:  I'm grumpy about FF daughter not telling me that she stopped taking medicine for asthma.  I've been asking her each day how it's going... I think she should mention it.  I would like to have consulted doctor before stopping the medicine.

W:  She had a reaction... .what was she supposed to do

FF:  Mention it to us... so we can call doctor.  That's why I asked her several times a day if she was ok... how her cough was... etc etc... .so she had a chance to talk to us.  I hadn't heard about the rash.

W:  So you asked her how she was doing yesterday?

FF:  Yes... I did

W:  I think you are lying and I will ask FF daughter when we get home

I turned and walked the other way to go back home.  I didn't look back.

She walked up behind me as was grumbing... .venting... .I didn't hear half of what she was saying. 

I had decided to go home.  As we got close she told me... ."I'm going home... you go on and have your walk... "  I didn't respond.

I walked in door... .stretched out... .did some situps.

She came back in room and I started a conversation about something else.  She was fairly responsive... .

So... .What the heck? 

I think that I should have cut the conversation or the walk at the first time that she asked a repetitive question.  That is usually a sign that something is up.

Any ideas?

I want to find time later when it is calm and address this with her. 

There was no yelling... .no "abusive tone"... .maybe a slight edge or something to her. 

[EaglesJuju]

FF,

It seems like she feels that you are withholding things and not communicating. PwBPD tend to over analyze things (hypersensitivity) that may be mundane or innocuous as a walk. It is like they feel that there is a hidden agenda.

Does talking about medical issues or doctors trigger her?

[MaroonLiquid]

It sounds to me like there is a hidden undertone also.  As if you are hiding something.  I won't try and figure out what our wives are thinking, however, it could be that the old "affair" issue could be going through her mind.  You are only walking to "see someone".  Just a thought.  The issue with your daughter's asthma seems like it was a way to get you into a circular argument and make herself feel better.  She feels bad for thinking you may be doing something wrong, and projects her feelings of inadequacy on to you.  Thoughts?

[Notwendy]

Putting on my BPD translator ear muffs... .( really just guessing but who knows)

You could have decided to walk after the doctor mentioned your weight but you are walking now and not then, so there must be some reason you decided now:

To get in shape for someone else?  After all, you've been married for a while so if it was for your wife, then you would have already.


And asking about your daughter's asthma was to change the subject because you are hiding something.

OK taking them off now... .

[maxsterling]

My first thought:  "Good grief."

Ain't it so often just BIZARRE subjects and accusations that you couldn't in your wildest imagination anticipate would be a problem?  I really have no clue here, but clearly something is up.  It sounds like you correctly identified that things were about to go downhill, and they did.  I think rather than turn around sooner, would have been better to recognize earlier and not gone for a walk with her at all.   After a few incidents with her dysregulating during a drive or a walk, I look for any potential red flags before I agree to go. 

[thatwasthat]

I'm normally on the leaving board, but this thread really reminds me of my ex.

What you brought up is something that always puzzled me, especially when I still wasn't aware what exactly was wrong with our rs.

Especially the fact that she is very high functioning made it difficult for me to understand and was confusing. Why would someone like her start probing over absolutely mundane "decisions"  (that is actually what I often told her, that she seems to see things as conscious decisions on my part when in fact they're just things that happened to be done a certain or different way.) I couldn't wrap my head around why something that happens dozens of times every day warrants probing.

I always said to myself that it's impossible that she's "perfect" and never changes anything, never has spontaneous ideas etc.

There were many, many examples for this. As soon as I changed my opinion on something really unimportant it was on.

I'm not even getting into "bigger"  decisions. I had one drink every night after work. One day I decided I might as well scratch that one... .She was all over it. Why don't you have your drink anymore?

To get to the point... .I think we shouldn't get confused about how insecure they actually are. Especially when they are high functioning. I'm convinced that, as previously mentioned, they suspect some hidden agenda. They are scared.  Abandonment.

Another factor might be that they don't like "change." Anything that strays from the routine is scary to them.

[Notwendy]

Change is hard, but it may also be fear of abandonment and projection.

My H is uncomfortable when I take on a new interest. He accuses me of getting so involved that I ignore him as if somehow I can't do both. He sometimes brings them up and says "I was so absorbed". That seemed odd, because even when I had a strong interest in something, I was still taking care of the kids, home, and even working part time. Once we had an argument about retiring somewhere where I could pursue an interest of mine and he said" If we do that you will leave me all alone to pursue it", but I had no intentions of doing that and I haven't done that.

Ironically, it is my H who does that. He has gotten so absorbed in his work that he was barely home. If he takes up a new hobby, he does it whenever he can, leaving me and the kids on our own. He would even do this during family vacations- doing something on his own while the kids and I stayed alone. Once he got into an exercise routine, every evening, for hours. So finally, I started doing things in the evening- classes, meetings. Then he got upset because I wasn't home. Basically, he wanted me at home while he was working out by himself. So I figured that his "you will leave me for your interest" may be a projection or just a fear.

Maybe your wife thinks you will be walking all the time, excluding her and maybe leave her... ?

[Notwendy]

Not to hijack the thread, but is anyone familiar with this? My H is fine pursuing his interests for hours and leaving me alone. However, he can't stand being alone in the house when I am not there. ( I don't mean leaving him with the kids- I mean alone, by himself when I am out doing something.) This doesn't mean he's interacting with me. He does sometimes, but he's content to do his own thing by himself, with me there too.  On the other hand, I love having some time in the house to myself.

[maxsterling]

Not to hijack the thread, but is anyone familiar with this? My H is fine pursuing his interests for hours and leaving me alone. However, he can't stand being alone in the house when I am not there. ( I don't mean leaving him with the kids- I mean alone, by himself when I am out doing something. On the other hand, I love having some time in the house to myself.

In the case of my wife, I think she hates being alone, period.  But, I think it is more agonizing for her when we are both home and I am doing something else without her.  If I am at work, she's lonely and miserable, but she recognizes I am at work.  If I am home and have house projects to do, she feels rejection because I have now CHOSEN to do something without her.

[Notwendy]

That makes sense. My H has said that he wanted me to do what I wanted to do when he was at work, but be available when he was home. That's true to an extent, and we can spend time together but it also meant "be home while I ignore you and do my own thing" too. I also get it that he has things he needs to do outside of work and I'm OK with that. I want him to enjoy his hobbies. It's just that he doesn't want me to be outside the house when he's home, even if he isn't with me that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me although I can understand it from a security standpoint and that I would be there if he wanted something. However, it really bothers him when I do something. I do try to be home and I am most of the time, but some things are scheduled in evening hours.

Maybe FF's wife was feeling left out of the decision to walk and wanted him to tell her about it.

[ColdEthyl]

Putting on my BPD translator ear muffs... .( really just guessing but who knows)

You could have decided to walk after the doctor mentioned your weight but you are walking now and not then, so there must be some reason you decided now:

To get in shape for someone else?  After all, you've been married for a while so if it was for your wife, then you would have already.


And asking about your daughter's asthma was to change the subject because you are hiding something.

OK taking them off now... .

That was my first impression as well. When I mention wanting to lose weight, get healthy, etc with my dBPDh, sure as sh** he thinks I want to tone up for some other dude, especially now since he's going through this ED issue. In reality, I just want to be alive longer.

I've been trying to get him to exercise with me since he keeps complaining about the weight he has gained from not working but... .yeah... .doesn't happen.

[vortex of confusion]

I will give you a little post mortem on the conversation. 

I've been sick for a few days... .woke up feeling great.  Asked wife if she wanted to go for a walk with me.  She drug her feet getting ready... but we went.  I told her I felt good and wanted to go for a walk.

W:"Why didn't you walk earlier... ?"

FF:"I didn't feel like it... was sick... "

Would it have been possible to turn this back on her and say something like: "Is there a reason that I should have walked earlier?"

W:  "So why now... ?"

FF:  "I don't know if I have any more to add to what I've already said... "

Perhaps you could have said something like, "Would you help me understand the relevance of my timing?" (or something like that).

FF:  "I hope to get a good walking habit going again.  My weight is down after sickness... and at my last physical my weight was my biggest issue the dr brought up... ."

W:  "but that appointment was months ago... .why now... "

FF:  "That appointment was less than two weeks ago... .I've been sick a bunch since then... "

You invalidated her by contradicting her recollection of when your last appointment was. Does the fact that it was months ago or a week ago really matter? What was your reason for correcting her? Even if the appointment was a week ago, why now and not then? Really, the answer doesn't matter. If she is asking out of true concern for your health, then would it be possible to validate her concerns for your health. If you have been sick, could it be the the sickness scared you into action a bit? I know that I have to work at not being defensive and trying to find the underlying concern rather than try to correct specific details like exactly when something did or didn't happen. That is a bit of a distraction.

W:  "Well at your last dr appointment your weight was an issue and you haven't walked much since then... "

FF:  "That's simply not true... ."

You were invalidating her again.  In her mind, it has been a couple of months since the last appointment. Have you walked much in the last couple of months? And, if as you say, your appointment was less than two weeks ago and you have been sick much of that time, then how and when did you get to go for walks?

W:  "Your last appointment was months ago and weight was issue then... ."

FF:  "My last appointment... .before the one a couple weeks ago... .was over a year ago... .I'm confused... .what appointments are you talking about... "

Sounds like you got distracted by focusing on the specifics (when the appointment occurred) rather than looking at the potential underlying feelings.

FF:  I'm grumpy about FF daughter not telling me that she stopped taking medicine for asthma.  I've been asking her each day how it's going... I think she should mention it.  I would like to have consulted doctor before stopping the medicine.

W:  She had a reaction... .what was she supposed to do

FF:  Mention it to us... so we can call doctor.  That's why I asked her several times a day if she was ok... how her cough was... etc etc... .so she had a chance to talk to us.  I hadn't heard about the rash.

W:  So you asked her how she was doing yesterday?

FF:  Yes... I did

W:  I think you are lying and I will ask FF daughter when we get home

This part of the conversation probably shouldn't have happened because it sounds like she was already a bit out of sorts from the earlier conversation. Frankly, it sounds like she was trying to bait you. You didn't take it, which is a good thing. It might be helpful to look at what kind of agreement is set up about kids' medical issues. Are you routinely involved in kids' medical issues or is there some kind of quiet understanding that kids' health stuff is your wife's domain. It sounds like there might be some issues surrounding communication with what is going on with the kids.

Any ideas?

I want to find time later when it is calm and address this with her. 

What is that you want to address with her? Your health issues and doctor visits? Your daughter's health issues? Overall communication? The way she interacted with you on the walk?

There seemed to be a lot of things that came up in the situation that you described. Before addressing any of it with her, it might be good to be clear on what the specific problem is.

[eyvindr]

Just validating this -- very similar to my experiences with my ex. Absolutely exasperating, and then annoyingly boring to deal with.

What you brought up is something that always puzzled me, especially when I still wasn't aware what exactly was wrong with our rs.

Especially the fact that she is very high functioning made it difficult for me to understand and was confusing. Why would someone like her start probing over absolutely mundane "decisions"  (that is actually what I often told her, that she seems to see things as conscious decisions on my part when in fact they're just things that happened to be done a certain or different way.) I couldn't wrap my head around why something that happens dozens of times every day warrants probing.

Yep. Something as simple as stopping at the grocery store on the way home from work on a Tuesday, instead of on Wednesday, when I usually went. Could be anything.

There were many, many examples for this. As soon as I changed my opinion on something really unimportant it was on. I'm not even getting into "bigger"  decisions. I had one drink every night after work. One day I decided I might as well scratch that one... .She was all over it. Why don't you have your drink anymore?

Yep. In my case, inevitably followed with something like, ":)id your friends not decide to go this time?" or "Are you afraid I will find out about something?" or "Why did you go to that place anyway -- were you meeting someone there or something? I mean, it's ok if you did, I do the same thing, but I believe in honesty in a relationship, and I tell you everything, so I expect you to tell me everything, too. I just would like you to let me know instead of hiding it from me and making me ask you about it, or pretending that you went alone." I can replay stuff like that in my mind when I need to reinforce to myself how much better off I am now.

To get to the point... .I think we shouldn't get confused about how insecure they actually are. Especially when they are high functioning. I'm convinced that, as previously mentioned, they suspect some hidden agenda. They are scared.  Abandonment. Another factor might be that they don't like "change." Anything that strays from the routine is scary to them.

Again, yep. Any change is viewed as some shift in your world, which very much in their mind can imply that changes are to come for them, too.

In my case, in the end, I guess her suspicions were correct. I couldn't take the insanity anymore, and I left her. Odd how they manage to effect the exact opposite of what they most want, isn't it? So much wasted energy. Life's too short.

[eyvindr]

Many pwBPD hate to be alone.

Not to hijack the thread, but is anyone familiar with this? My H is fine pursuing his interests for hours and leaving me alone. However, he can't stand being alone in the house when I am not there. ( I don't mean leaving him with the kids- I mean alone, by himself when I am out doing something.) This doesn't mean he's interacting with me. He does sometimes, but he's content to do his own thing by himself, with me there too.  On the other hand, I love having some time in the house to myself.

I think a lot if it has to do with their very tenuous sense of self. Without someone else around to validate their existence, and their worth -- without someone to mirror -- they feel like they don't exist. I can see where that would be terrifying. But it's totally in their heads, obviously.

[eyvindr]

BH vortex --

Just wanted to clarify -- are you being serious?

I will give you a little post mortem on the conversation. 

FF:  "That appointment was less than two weeks ago... .I've been sick a bunch since then... "

You invalidated her by contradicting her recollection of when your last appointment was. Does the fact that it was months ago or a week ago really matter? What was your reason for correcting her? Even if the appointment was a week ago, why now and not then? Really, the answer doesn't matter. If she is asking out of true concern for your health, then would it be possible to validate her concerns for your health. If you have been sick, could it be the the sickness scared you into action a bit? I know that I have to work at not being defensive and trying to find the underlying concern rather than try to correct specific details like exactly when something did or didn't happen. That is a bit of a distraction.

The above is very true to life. But, seriously -- who has the patience to do this in every single mundane conversation with someone they've decided to spend their life with, every single time? I couldn't -- it was a major factor in my decision to leave. I simply would like to be able to talk casually with my partner, without an agenda, without it disintegrating into some dsyfunctional mud of confusion and hurt feelings. And I refuse to believe, as my ex valiantly tried to convince me -- that my expectations are anything but absolutely normal.

[ColdEthyl]

BH vortex --

Just wanted to clarify -- are you being serious?

I will give you a little post mortem on the conversation. 

FF:  "That appointment was less than two weeks ago... .I've been sick a bunch since then... "

You invalidated her by contradicting her recollection of when your last appointment was. Does the fact that it was months ago or a week ago really matter? What was your reason for correcting her? Even if the appointment was a week ago, why now and not then? Really, the answer doesn't matter. If she is asking out of true concern for your health, then would it be possible to validate her concerns for your health. If you have been sick, could it be the the sickness scared you into action a bit? I know that I have to work at not being defensive and trying to find the underlying concern rather than try to correct specific details like exactly when something did or didn't happen. That is a bit of a distraction.

The above is very true to life. But, seriously -- who has the patience to do this in every single mundane conversation with someone they've decided to spend their life with, every single time? I couldn't -- it was a major factor in my decision to leave. I simply would like to be able to talk casually with my partner, without an agenda, without it disintegrating into some dsyfunctional mud of confusion and hurt feelings. And I refuse to believe, as my ex valiantly tried to convince me -- that my expectations are anything but absolutely normal.

The ones of us who are choosing to stay have that patience, or at least are trying to. I have that patience. I've learned to speak differently to my S10 because he is Asperger's... .I don't see much difference in learning another form of communication for my dBPDh.

[vortex of confusion]

BH vortex --

Just wanted to clarify -- are you being serious?

Yes, I am being serious. I am being a bit tongue in cheek and attempting to use humor in some places but I am very serious.

The above is very true to life. But, seriously -- who has the patience to do this in every single mundane conversation with someone they've decided to spend their life with, every single time? I couldn't -- it was a major factor in my decision to leave. I simply would like to be able to talk casually with my partner, without an agenda, without it disintegrating into some dsyfunctional mud of confusion and hurt feelings. And I refuse to believe, as my ex valiantly tried to convince me -- that my expectations are anything but absolutely normal.

I don't think anybody has the patience to do this in every single mundane conversation. This is ONE conversation (among many) that formflier brought to the boards to help get some perspective. I tried to do that based on my experiences and what I know from dealing with my situation. I don't analyze every single conversation with my spouse but I will seek feedback and try to analyze it if I walk away feeling particularly bothered by something. I can't change my partner. He is who he is. I can try to change my side of things and prevent things from disintegrating but that will only happen if I look at things on my side.

Formflier is committed to staying in his relationship and wants honest feedback so that is what I gave him.

[formflier]

 

Well... I just failed in trying to post a long reply.  Sigh.

VOC... thanks for taking that conversation apart... .I've got another one I will try to put up again. 

I've had a while of "normal"... .I need to track this better... .to try and see if there is a cycle.

Wondering if I should have pitched out earlier... .before the lying comment.

Somebody mentioned "probing"... .and that is exactly a great way to describe it.  I realized she was "probing"... .I need to figure out what to do at the first "probe".

I also need to get a straight answer (stop laughing at that)... .on if she wants to be corrected.  She says she does...   Corrected as in... .you were at the doctor two months ago...   According to her she wants to be corrected.

More in a bit

[eyvindr]

Points taken, folks. My apologies if anyone was offended. I do likely need to stick to the "Leaving" and "Inventory" boards, but sometimes some of these stories are so familiar I just feel compelled to reply.

Some of this stuff admittedly still pushes my buttons. In other words, it triggers me. I do truly admire anyone who has the patience to stick with a partner wBPD. I wish I could have. I did truly love her, but the behaviors that stemmed from the disease drove me insane, and she was either incapable of or unwilling to work on them. I couldn't live with it, and unfortunately, it's a pkg deal. You are all brave and compassionate people, and I wish you the best.

Peace.

[vortex of confusion]

Wondering if I should have pitched out earlier... .before the lying comment.

My two cents is that you should have pitched out when she was dragging her feet to get ready. When my husband starts dragging his feet and dawdling when I suggest we do something together, there is a good chance that it isn't going to have a good ending because he doesn't want to do it to begin with.

[ColdEthyl]

Points taken, folks. My apologies if anyone was offended. I do likely need to stick to the "Leaving" and "Inventory" boards, but sometimes some of these stories are so familiar I just feel compelled to reply.

Some of this stuff admittedly still pushes my buttons. In other words, it triggers me. I do truly admire anyone who has the patience to stick with a partner wBPD. I wish I could have. I did truly love her, but the behaviors that stemmed from the disease drove me insane, and she was either incapable of or unwilling to work on them. I couldn't live with it, and unfortunately, it's a pkg deal. You are all brave and compassionate people, and I wish you the best.

Peace.

No offense on my end, eyvindr. I apologize if I came off that way, I tend to be blunt in thought and speech.

It's not a relationship for everyone, and if my dBPDh was like what some of the others on this board put up with I don't think I could be here either. I think he's a bit lower on the spectrum compared to some others.

You made the choice that was right for you, and that's all any of us can do

[formflier]

Points taken, folks. My apologies if anyone was offended. I do likely need to stick to the "Leaving" and "Inventory" boards, but sometimes some of these stories are so familiar I just feel compelled to reply.

Some of this stuff admittedly still pushes my buttons. In other words, it triggers me. I do truly admire anyone who has the patience to stick with a partner wBPD. I wish I could have. I did truly love her, but the behaviors that stemmed from the disease drove me insane, and she was either incapable of or unwilling to work on them. I couldn't live with it, and unfortunately, it's a pkg deal. You are all brave and compassionate people, and I wish you the best.

Peace.

Please feel free to stick around and tell you story and participate.  As long as you don't give a direct "run" message... .you should be good posting over here.

My wife is a bit in the "incapable and unwilling" to work on it.  She likes to point the finger at me... .rarely points it at herself.  She does seem to be ok with working on "us" right now in MC.  I try to stay away from laying blame on her... .but I also am trying hard not to enable bad behavior.

My "tactic" is that if I don't participate in unhealthy conversations... .she will get frustrated and hopefully change.

I do see it working some... .and one of the reasons I like getting "backup" on these boards... .is it helps me be objective.

See things that I don't normally see.

[formflier]

You made the choice that was right for you, and that's all any of us can do

Well said!

bpdfamily is about many things.  One thing is to give the power of choice back to the "nons" that are here.  Many make a choice to stay... .many make a choice to leave... .but we have all taken the power back from the "crazyness"... .and started to put order back in our lives!

[eyvindr]

Thanks for understanding, guys. All of your responses are what makes bpdfamily a genuinely unique and compassionate place. *hugs*

[formflier]

 

So... now back to try and repost what I somehow messed up posting before... .another "blow by blow" of our next "interesting" conversation.

So... I am concerned about medical care decisions in our house.  Today's doctor visit confirmed that my wife and I need to get on the same page.

my daughter... .on her own... .decided that the prednisone was causing a rash and quit taking it.  I don't think she involved my wife in it... .but my wife is supportive of her... .thinks she did "right thing".  I haven't been able to have a coherent conversation with my wife to figure out who knew what and when.

Here goes... .

I call my wife when leaving the dr office... .and on way to store... .pleasantries... .get list of goodies to get at store... .

FF:  "Hey...  I hope we can get together on how to approach ff daughter this evening.  .ff daughter's breathing test was down 8%.  dr got after her about stopping the prednisone without checking with him.  Says it had nothing to do with rash... .prednisone will make rashes go away... .not cause them.  I haven't said anything to her since dr got after here... but I think we should

w:  "how can this be... ?"

FF:  "he explained it... .big long medical name.  It was due to antibiotic.  He said best advice is to "treat through it"... .and keep taking all meds... .rash stopped because she finished the antibiotics.  The good news is he said this does not mean she is allergic to the antibiotic... .we don't need to report this.

w:   "so what did he say to do... "

FF:  He gave her new course of prednisone... .we have to start over.  He thinks that should clear up lungs.  She most likely has something else going on too.  He stressed to take all of it.  I asked him specifically what to do if a rash comes back... and he said to call in immediately before changing any dosing.

w:  well... that's what we did.  It's common sense... to stop taking something if it causes a rash... .

ff:  that's not what we did... .ff daughter just stopped taking it... I didn't find out till a couple days later. I really think we need to follow the dr instructions...

w:  It's common sense to stop until you can talk to the dr

ff:  I disagree with this... but I hope we can get together on how we will approach ff daughter this evening

w:  So what you are saying is it's my fault...

ff:   I'm not able to have a conversation with you when you misstate my position... .I would like to talk to you later about this... .have a good day. (click)

I called her 10 minutes later from the store... .totally fine.

Came home... totally fine.

I don't have any idea if my wife is involved in the decision to stop taking the drug or not.  I'm not going to drop this... .we are not drs... .and shouldn't play dr.

[formflier]

 

Do I think this particular incident is dangerous... .no... .not really.

It's the "attitude" that bothers me... .a very casual disregard for doing what a dr says.

There is also stuff with this daughter... .she... .out of all the kids... is most "triggering" to my wife. 

Not sure... .

This same daughter that was getting yelled at and I intervened... .was big subject of last MC.

[vortex of confusion]

The latest conversation that you posted makes my head hurt. 

How old is the daughter that is having this issue? I wonder if you can have a quiet conversation with her on the side. It sounds like you are the one that took your daughter to the doctor.

I agree with your wife that IF I think I am having a reaction to medicine, I stop taking it immediately. So, I am wondering if it can be approached as, "You are right. The logical thing to do is stop taking the medicine. That was fine THAT time. Moving forward, the doctor says to NOT do it again. This isn't about fault. That is what happened in the past and this is what needs to happen moving forward."

If the goal is to get her to understand that your daughter should not stop taking the medicine, then try to keep the conversation focused on that instead of trying to understand how things happened in the past as it seems that things are sketchy at best.

[formflier]

 

Daughter is a few days shy of 18.  Generally has good head on her shoulders.  Sickness lately has knocked her down pretty good... .so she is not thinking as clearly as normal. 

My goal was to get wife and I on same page so we don't give mixed messages to daughter.  I don't want to punish... just let her know... .mom and I should have known when you stopped taking the meds... .we all should have called immediately.

VOC... as far as agreeing... .I'm with you if you add... ."call immediately"... .but... waiting 2-3 days.  No... .NO!

And... maybe to clarify the story more... I think I left this out.  She had the reaction for 2-3 days... and just itched... thought it was weird.  And didn't tell us.  Decided after a couple of days of reaction... .it must be the prednisone... .and stopped taking the prednisone. 

So... .it didn't even follow your logic.  Take pill... get reaction... .stop taking pill.  She... .took pill... had reaction... .dealt with reaction a few days... .(kept it secret)... .decided to stop taking meds... .(kept that secret)... .and all the while I was asking her how things were going... better worse.

I know for sure a couple of days I asked if "anything new".

Then... .tie this in with my wife claiming I was lying about asking ff daughter about her status... .

Yeah... .it makes my head hurt to.

At this point... .I still don't know if my wife was involved in decision for ff daughter to stop taking meds... or if she is just saying she agrees with that decision after the fact.

Maybe I start the conversation off with the "going forward joint decision" part... .and if that goes well... maybe try to understand the past.

But... .somehow there needs to be some parenting here... .

Having reaction to meds and keeping it a secret... .not good.

Deciding to continue meds while having a reaction without talking to dr... .not good

deciding to quit meds while having reaction without taking to dr... .not good

The theme in all the decisions... .that I think is the bad part... is to keep the secret from the dr.  Or that adjusting meds without dr knowledge is ok... .

sigh... .   

[eyvindr]

That's a great approach, vortex.

ff -- I wonder it if would help to probe a little bit more with your daughter to determine why she stopped taking the prednisone. My ex had asthma, and she was hyper-vigilant about managing it -- which I think was a good thing, though it was pretty hard to tell whether the asthma was as bad as she indicated it was. Lest you think I sound like a thougthless boor, let me explain why I wound up doubting her claims. She periodically claimed to try to go off her asthma medicine, b/c she got tired of spending money on all of the scripts, and having to structure her life around taking her meds. But she never lasted more than a day, tops -- and I couldn't ever see any visible signs of a flare-up. But she swore it was happening -- and there's only so much you can doubt someone's claims, especially if you love them, worry about them, are concerned for them and certainly don't want them to suffer needlessly.

Anyway, he was terrified of prednisone -- because the first thing she did whenever she was Rx'd anything was to go straight to the side effects listing. Anyway, I wouldn't hold that against anyone, including her. But, when we had our first arguments, after everything blew over and we'd made up, she used to apologize for her behavior -- and attribute it to prednisone, which can potentially affect mental functioning. That's documented.

But, it made me wonder when I read your post. Maybe taking the predi (as we called it) causes your daughter some weird mental effects, and she doesn't like them, but they give her an alert, and she made up the thing about the rash instead of saying "it makes me feel like running down the street and screaming" -- ? Just a thought.

Or, maybe she shared those feelings with mom, and mom helped her come up with the rash story? I don't know -- maybe she really did think that she had a rash. Doctors don't know everything.

[eyvindr]

I agree with everything you say here. Incidentally, my ex adjusted her dosages all the time. And any time I inquired about it, whether it was safe, or recommended, she always said that she'd talked to her doctor(s), they told her it was alright, and "don't worry -- you know I'd never take any risks with something as important as my health."

Having reaction to meds and keeping it a secret... .not good.

Deciding to continue meds while having a reaction without talking to dr... .not good

deciding to quit meds while having reaction without taking to dr... .not good

The theme in all the decisions... .that I think is the bad part... is to keep the secret from the dr.  Or that adjusting meds without dr knowledge is ok... .

sigh... .