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Author Topic: All about that tone  (Read 619 times)
ColdEthyl
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« on: January 23, 2015, 11:10:42 AM »

For the past two evenings my dBPDh and I have had an argument. The same one. The stupid thing is... .we were not disagreeing with each other. We, in fact, were in complete agreeance. How can this be? Well, I'll tell you. I was perplexed myself.

My husband brought up that he noticed a change in my D14's behavior. She has been spending more time in her room and usually when she's on her laptop she sits at her desk. This past week, he noticed she has been on her bed facing the door. Not usually a cause for concern, but pwBPD pick up on subtle changes like that. He was concerned she might be looking/doing something on her laptop she's not supposed to, and trying to hide it. He said she probably is, but he does not know. I agreed it should be looked into. Teens are known for trying to be sneaky. (she's not allowed to have unsupervised Internet access) I also suggested we change the wifi password, just to make sure she isn't getting on it when she's not supposed to.

We agreed on everything. So where's the argument? Well... .the first night he brought it up, I was attempting to speed up his conversation by cutting him off and finishing his statements. At the time, I did not realize I was doing that, but he did. Oh... .but he did.

When he brought it up again yesterday, I was really tired from the night before. I was instantly irritated and frustrated it was being brought up again even though the situation was already discussed and handled. Again, we were in complete agreeance. He started to get really upset and pacing back and forth, and I kept saying I agree with you what are you angry about? I listened to you. I agreed. I acted on it. What else do you want?

I kept cutting him off. I was trying to speed up the conversation again. Poor choice. What I did not realize was my tone.

After we both calmed down and decided to listen to each other, he explained to me that he just wants to get his thought out. Even if I disagree with it, he has a right to be heard and to finish his thought. What I was doing was cutting him off in the first sentence after he said something I disagreed with. I was trying to correct him so he wouldn't keep going on and going based on a false premise. (At this point in the conversation, he was saying I said she was doing x, when I didn't. I said she was SUPPOSED to do x. We got into it over semantics. Stupid.)

He then said every time he brings up and issue with my brother or children, I automatically get defensive. (I didn't think so) He said I make it very difficult for him to bring anything up because he doesn't want to fight. (I was agreeing with him, I didn't understand the fight) But, once again using some of the language formflier suggested, I said "help me understand why you are upset"

He said it's my tone. When he brings up an issue with the children, the tone in my voice is different. He can hear the irritation and defensiveness. That automatically puts HIM on the defensive, and that's why he feels like it's difficult to talk to me. So, it's not what I say... .it's how I say it.

After he said that, I thought about my responses and feelings at the time. He was right. My tone was different. I felt irritated, and it bled into my tone. I do get a bit defensive when he brings up a problem with the children, because I'm always preparing myself for some sort of weird BPD problem that I might have to defend my children from. (It's happened 2-3 times. He doesn't say anything to the children though, just to me)

He also said it seems like I might think he's critiquing my parenting, when he's not. I really did feel that way... .although I didn't realize it until I stopped and started thinking about WHY I was irritated and WHY I was frustrated.

The lesson of the story is I need to listen even if I disagree. I need to listen to understand his thoughts and allow him to express them. I read a quote the other day that I thought was helpful.

“Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” -Stephen R Covey

I only wish he wasn't so perceptive sometimes >.< It's going to take work to change my knee-jerk reactions to certain triggers of mine. I can only imagine how difficult that must be for a pwBPD.
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2015, 11:43:50 AM »

why do you think he has BPD?  I didn't get that from your story.  It sounds like you two have different communication styles and to your credit, you are accurate in your description.  One thing I picked up is that kudos to both of you that you were able to sit down and talked about your issues.  Very good.  My NPDw will never ever sit down and talk about any issues… she would start attacking me personally.  For example, if I were to say you shouldn't cut me off, she would say that I am yelling at her and that abuse has to stop and then rage on how violent that I am … meanwhile all I did would be trying to have a conversation with her.  You see, that is how my NPDw like to insert her control by wildly attack me (gas lighting) and projecting her own feelings and actions.  It is pretty crazy.  I didn't get any sense of that in you and your husband's communication.  I think it is excellent that he is perceptive and care for your daughter, you should encourage him to do so and talk about it anytime he wants to.  If you cut him off too often, he will shut down and stop sharing information with you.  I think it is smarter when both parents are "communicating" when comes to parenting a teenager.  Also, it seems to me that you are solution oriented and you are cut and dry type of of a person… but sometimes a very good solution needs some lengthy discussion, and when comes to parenting … parents should never have enough discussion about how to handle delicate situations with their kids.  Perhaps… your way of cutting off is tied to some prior incidences that exist in your relationship?  I still find it excellent that you two are able to communicate in light of a disagreement. 
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2015, 11:54:29 AM »

 

Cold...

I can see similar things happening in my house.  What I would like is to put aside "tone" and "assumptions" for a period of time and get the idea out there... .however imperfectly... .hush... .and let the thought get out.

Tone= irritation

Assumptions=defensiveness

Because usually... .once everything gets heard... .the assumptions are wrong... .and the facts or the "real thoughts" are in a good place... .and "tone" issues can be overcome.

So... .have you gone to him an asked forgiveness for not letting him speak his thought? 

Always a good idea when you find that you were the unfortunate soul in the wrong... .even if the other person has some wrongs... .show ownership of the wrong... .show humility.

In your particular situation... .since I know a bunch of the other story... this might be a good thing too.

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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2015, 12:21:50 PM »

Hey Ethyl--I've got some similar issues as you. Sometimes my husband will start on a long monologue about something and insert my opinion about some issue. I find it galling to be quoted as having a certain opinion or belief when it's completely inaccurate. So I'll interrupt him, saying "I don't think that" and then he'll get really upset at being interrupted.

But if I don't interrupt, he can talk for ten minutes straight. I really want to correct misconceptions that he will build upon to support some argument he's constructing in his head.

The irony is that he is quick to interrupt me when I'm speaking for any reason and when I object, then he gets upset. Very frustrating.

They expect us to have perfect conversational manners and a calm, even tone, no matter what they do. I hate being held to such a high standard when my husband feels free to be as rude as he wants.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2015, 12:28:32 PM »

why do you think he has BPD?  I didn't get that from your story.  It sounds like you two have different communication styles and to your credit, you are accurate in your description.  One thing I picked up is that kudos to both of you that you were able to sit down and talked about your issues.  Very good.  My NPDw will never ever sit down and talk about any issues… she would start attacking me personally.  For example, if I were to say you shouldn't cut me off, she would say that I am yelling at her and that abuse has to stop and then rage on how violent that I am … meanwhile all I did would be trying to have a conversation with her.  You see, that is how my NPDw like to insert her control by wildly attack me (gas lighting) and projecting her own feelings and actions.  It is pretty crazy.  I didn't get any sense of that in you and your husband's communication.  I think it is excellent that he is perceptive and care for your daughter, you should encourage him to do so and talk about it anytime he wants to.  If you cut him off too often, he will shut down and stop sharing information with you.  I think it is smarter when both parents are "communicating" when comes to parenting a teenager.  Also, it seems to me that you are solution oriented and you are cut and dry type of of a person… but sometimes a very good solution needs some lengthy discussion, and when comes to parenting … parents should never have enough discussion about how to handle delicate situations with their kids.  Perhaps… your way of cutting off is tied to some prior incidences that exist in your relationship?  I still find it excellent that you two are able to communicate in light of a disagreement. 

He does without question. He's diagnosed, and he is self aware and is working on it. I have other posts o this site that reflect it. The purpose of this post was I thought it was good for others to see some glimmer of hope, and his picking up on my irritation is a good example if others have had a similar experience. I don't always post just bad thing I try not to. I try to show the good things and breakthroughs as well Smiling (click to insert in post)

I am a very cut and dry person, and that was the problem. He wanted to talk about his feelings on it, and I didn't. Sometimes I don't have the patience or energy for it. The BPD part of this is if I asked him if we could please talk about it at another time... .it wouldn't go over well. I would be a jerk for even saying that and it would have been on. My attempts to speed him up were a bad choice.

Cold...

I can see similar things happening in my house.  What I would like is to put aside "tone" and "assumptions" for a period of time and get the idea out there... .however imperfectly... .hush... .and let the thought get out.

Tone= irritation

Assumptions=defensiveness

Because usually... .once everything gets heard... .the assumptions are wrong... .and the facts or the "real thoughts" are in a good place... .and "tone" issues can be overcome.

So... .have you gone to him an asked forgiveness for not letting him speak his thought?  

Always a good idea when you find that you were the unfortunate soul in the wrong... .even if the other person has some wrongs... .show ownership of the wrong... .show humility.

In your particular situation... .since I know a bunch of the other story... this might be a good thing too.

Actually, that's exactly what he said. There were still BPD elements to this discussion, like him saying he was trying to make a point for "2 hours" when it was from start to finish 30 minutes, and he kept screaming that I cut him off 11 times (this was of course after I got him riled up), when I was being quiet and listening and he literally just kept repeating himself and rewriting the conversation within minutes. But, that wasn't worth fighting about or bringing up.

I did in fact apologize to him and said I would work on that. I thanked him for pointing it out to me because at the time I honestly did not see it. I thanked him for caring about our daughter and noticing the change and told him I appreciate his input. I told him I want to learn to communicate better, and he does with me as well.

He said if I disagree with him that's fine, but let him get his entire thought out before I speak.
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2015, 12:30:50 PM »

Hey Ethyl--I've got some similar issues as you. Sometimes my husband will start on a long monologue about something and insert my opinion about some issue. I find it galling to be quoted as having a certain opinion or belief when it's completely inaccurate. So I'll interrupt him, saying "I don't think that" and then he'll get really upset at being interrupted.

But if I don't interrupt, he can talk for ten minutes straight. I really want to correct misconceptions that he will build upon to support some argument he's constructing in his head.

The irony is that he is quick to interrupt me when I'm speaking for any reason and when I object, then he gets upset. Very frustrating.

They expect us to have perfect conversational manners and a calm, even tone, no matter what they do. I hate being held to such a high standard when my husband feels free to be as rude as he wants.

Yep our husbands are pretty similar we have found out Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2015, 12:34:59 PM »

He said if I disagree with him that's fine, but let him get his entire thought out before I speak.

Does he let you do this... .do you get to speak fully... .without interruption?


A bit of a difference in apology and forgiveness... .there is some religious context there... .and some "degree of wrongness"


If the concept of forgiveness is not in your r/s... .probably not the time to try to work it in.

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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2015, 12:57:20 PM »

He said if I disagree with him that's fine, but let him get his entire thought out before I speak.

Does he let you do this... .do you get to speak fully... .without interruption?


A bit of a difference in apology and forgiveness... .there is some religious context there... .and some "degree of wrongness"


If the concept of forgiveness is not in your r/s... .probably not the time to try to work it in.

Do I get to? If we are having a calm discussion most of the time we can go back and forth. If it's an argument, of course not. The rules are different for a pwBPD. He's terrible at cutting me off and going on and on and on... .repeating himself and looping his conversation. This is still a work in progress. Last night wasn't the time to bring that up. I felt the major breakdown the past two days did actually start with my reactions first.
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2015, 01:02:36 PM »

Good to hear that you identified a behaviour that triggers him!      That's the first step.

I've noticed that when my BPDh says things that are silly, or are leading him down the wrong line of thinking, if I just shut right up, it seems to land on his own ears and he realizes what he is saying.  He's learning to recognize his own illogical thinking, I guess.  It must be something he learned in T., but the point is, I seem to be able to help him get there by letting him go thru his own full thought process verbally, without interruption or correction, and then give him a minute to think about it.  And then assure him that I understand he's battling his thoughts and it's okay.  It does get us back on track, most of the time.  

Even if your guy isn't in a place where he has the tools to turn things around, it may still help him get there if you can practice the same technique with him.  If you don't give him room to recognize his own behaviours on his own, he wont be able to change.  Like pointing to a star when trying to help someone else see it, it just doesn't work - Unless you spot it yourself, based on facts and information, you'll never see it.  

Just a suggestion.      It's a process and one we've had almost a year of practice, but still, maybe it will help you too.  An  d I may not have even explained it well, but I hope so!

, c.

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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2015, 01:04:01 PM »

 

I think the "concept" here... .that you might even want to say to him... .

Is that you realize you didn't "keep your side of the street clean"... .and want to do the best for the r/s... .

cutting him off was not the best... .

Don't suggest he can do better... just demonstrate good leadership in owning your stuff... .for the benefit of the r/s
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2015, 01:10:38 PM »

I've noticed that when my BPDh says things that are silly, or are leading him down the wrong line of thinking, if I just shut right up, it seems to land on his own ears and he realizes what he is saying.  He's learning to recognize his own illogical thinking, I guess.  It must be something he learned in T., but the point is, I seem to be able to help him get there by letting him go thru his own full thought process verbally, without interruption or correction, and then give him a minute to think about it.  And then assure him that I understand he's battling his thoughts and it's okay.  It does get us back on track, most of the time.  

Even if your guy isn't in a place where he has the tools to turn things around, it may still help him get there if you can practice the same technique with him.  If you don't give him room to recognize his own behaviours on his own, he wont be able to change.  Like pointing to a star when trying to help someone else see it, it just doesn't work - Unless you spot it yourself, based on facts and information, you'll never see it.  

I'll have to try that one--just let him go on about something without saying anything. It does bug me to be misquoted or misrepresented, but in the scheme of things, if trying to correct a statement leads to dysregulation, it's not worth doing.

I have tried a new strategy--pre-emtively painting myself black. For example, if he says something like, "You don't have time for me; you just want to ride your horse and hang out with your friend." I might say something like, "You're right. I'm very self-centered." (I might be smiling internally as I say this and thinking about a positive definition of "centered" but he doesn't have to know that.)

My husband is such a "polarity" person that if I agree with him about such a statement, he'll take the opposite side and tell me that I'm really fine and it's his problem.
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2015, 01:16:12 PM »

Good to hear that you identified a behaviour that triggers him!     That's the first step.

I've noticed that when my BPDh says things that are silly, or are leading him down the wrong line of thinking, if I just shut right up, it seems to land on his own ears and he realizes what he is saying.  He's learning to recognize his own illogical thinking, I guess.  It must be something he learned in T., but the point is, I seem to be able to help him get there by letting him go thru his own full thought process verbally, without interruption or correction, and then give him a minute to think about it.  And then assure him that I understand he's battling his thoughts and it's okay.  It does get us back on track, most of the time.  

Even if your guy isn't in a place where he has the tools to turn things around, it may still help him get there if you can practice the same technique with him.  If you don't give him room to recognize his own behaviours on his own, he wont be able to change.  Like pointing to a star when trying to help someone else see it, it just doesn't work - Unless you spot it yourself, based on facts and information, you'll never see it.  

Just a suggestion.     It's a process and one we've had almost a year of practice, but still, maybe it will help you too.  An d I may not have even explained it well, but I hope so!

, c.

@crumbling I think we can get there! I am fortunate he's self aware and trying. We talked about working on our communication skills last night. And he said to me "I know I'm long winded. I know I cut you off sometimes too" so he's aware and wanting to work on it. What you said made complete perfect sense to me... .thank you so very much. You're example of the star is spot-on. I will keep that in my head for those times I get frustrated or irritated. I need to listen to him, and let him hear it.

I think the "concept" here... .that you might even want to say to him... .

Is that you realize you didn't "keep your side of the street clean"... .and want to do the best for the r/s... .

cutting him off was not the best... .

Don't suggest he can do better... just demonstrate good leadership in owning your stuff... .for the benefit of the r/s

Oh no I completely admitted I screwed up. I said I want to learn to communicate better with him because he's my husband and I love him. I told him I value his opinion and his thoughts, and I understood why he felt that I didn't at that time.

That bit about suggesting he do better... .I started to say that and backed off. This particular discussion was about my part, not his.
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2015, 01:17:10 PM »

I've noticed that when my BPDh says things that are silly, or are leading him down the wrong line of thinking, if I just shut right up, it seems to land on his own ears and he realizes what he is saying.  He's learning to recognize his own illogical thinking, I guess.  It must be something he learned in T., but the point is, I seem to be able to help him get there by letting him go thru his own full thought process verbally, without interruption or correction, and then give him a minute to think about it.  And then assure him that I understand he's battling his thoughts and it's okay.  It does get us back on track, most of the time.  

Even if your guy isn't in a place where he has the tools to turn things around, it may still help him get there if you can practice the same technique with him.  If you don't give him room to recognize his own behaviours on his own, he wont be able to change.  Like pointing to a star when trying to help someone else see it, it just doesn't work - Unless you spot it yourself, based on facts and information, you'll never see it.  

I'll have to try that one--just let him go on about something without saying anything. It does bug me to be misquoted or misrepresented, but in the scheme of things, if trying to correct a statement leads to dysregulation, it's not worth doing.

I have tried a new strategy--pre-emtively painting myself black. For example, if he says something like, "You don't have time for me; you just want to ride your horse and hang out with your friend." I might say something like, "You're right. I'm very self-centered." (I might be smiling internally as I say this and thinking about a positive definition of "centered" but he doesn't have to know that.)

My husband is such a "polarity" person that if I agree with him about such a statement, he'll take the opposite side and tell me that I'm really fine and it's his problem.

Again... .our husbands are the same Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) mine will do the same thing. I've done that.
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2015, 02:08:07 PM »

  it's not worth doing.

I used to think this way... .would let things slide.  My wife brought up invalidation (who knows where she read it... .a few months back)... .and... .ohhh the genius luck on my part... .said that I have invalidated her when I asked her a  question... .

She felt invalidated because I asked did FF daughter say that... .?... .or something to that affect.

What she heard is "you can't read minds... ." 

So... we agreed not to invalidate each other... .that my thoughts and feelings are mine... and hers... .are hers.  We ask about the others feelings... .don't tell them.

So... .I can totally tell that she thinks she has me over the barrel here... .that she doesn't "invalidate"... and I do.  Not mind reading... but I can't remember exact words she used.

Anyway... .I'm jumping for joy inside and trying not to grin... .because this is one of my primary complaints.  I'm very aware... .and I rarely do this to her... and quickly apologize.

Well... .by the time it was time for MC she was already tired of this new idea... .that she brought up.  I praised her genius... .said it was going to be huge help to the r/s. 

So... .she starts trying to complain about me invalidating her... .and is totally twisting my words... .and invalidating me.  Basically... .she "knows" that when I asked a question... .I "meant" to accuse her of mind reading... .which is invalidating... .

I couldn't help grinning... .MC sort of sits there not knowing what to do... .wife knows she just caught herself in her own BPDish doubletalk.

I again praised her for her wonderful idea... .expressed that each of us asking about the others feelings... .instead of telling the other how they feel was going to help the r/s... .

Since then... .I've had a zero tolerance policy.  If she starts down that road of "telling"... .I ask her if she is asking about my emotions... .if that doesn't stop it... .I walk away.

Complete genius... .   Smiling (click to insert in post)

So... how does this relate to Cat Familiar's comment.  Well... .I wasn't looking to "make this an issue"... .but... when it got handed to me on a silver platter... .seemed like the time to run with it.

I encourage all to look out
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2015, 02:08:49 PM »

 

 it's not worth doing.

I used to think this way... .would let things slide.  My wife brought up invalidation (who knows where she read it... .a few months back)... .and... .ohhh the genius luck on my part... .said that I have invalidated her when I asked her a  question... .

She felt invalidated because I asked did FF daughter say that... .?... .or something to that affect.

What she heard is "you can't read minds... ."  

So... we agreed not to invalidate each other... .that my thoughts and feelings are mine... and hers... .are hers.  We ask about the others feelings... .don't tell them.

So... .I can totally tell that she thinks she has me over the barrel here... .that she doesn't "invalidate"... and I do.  Not mind reading... but I can't remember exact words she used.

Anyway... .I'm jumping for joy inside and trying not to grin... .because this is one of my primary complaints.  I'm very aware... .and I rarely do this to her... and quickly apologize.

Well... .by the time it was time for MC she was already tired of this new idea... .that she brought up.  I praised her genius... .said it was going to be huge help to the r/s.  

So... .she starts trying to complain about me invalidating her... .and is totally twisting my words... .and invalidating me.  Basically... .she "knows" that when I asked a question... .I "meant" to accuse her of mind reading... .which is invalidating... .

I couldn't help grinning... .MC sort of sits there not knowing what to do... .wife knows she just caught herself in her own BPDish doubletalk.

I again praised her for her wonderful idea... .expressed that each of us asking about the others feelings... .instead of telling the other how they feel was going to help the r/s... .

Since then... .I've had a zero tolerance policy.  If she starts down that road of "telling"... .I ask her if she is asking about my emotions... .if that doesn't stop it... .I walk away.

Complete genius... .  Smiling (click to insert in post)

So... how does this relate to Cat Familiar's comment.  Well... .I wasn't looking to "make this an issue"... .but... when it got handed to me on a silver platter... .seemed like the time to run with it.

I encourage all to look out for similar opportunities to shut down mind reading... .
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2015, 03:50:30 PM »

my partner is NPDw… I have the opposite problem with her.  She is the silent type until she blows up and pile on with strange and unfounded accusations that often leave my head spinning.  So I don't even get to a constructive discussion part… 

My question is I am not sure if cutting someone off is a good thing… PD or not.  I also understand at times, some people maybe wordy.  Perhaps, if you haven't yet ... try to say "I think we are pretty on the same page and I really like to hear more what you have to say, I am in a hurry to [make up a good excuse here], I see your concern is [address it] and I shared the same.  Is there anything else you like to say before I really have to go?".   Kind of soft landing and acknowledge him for staying interested in an important topic (raising a child together).  My feeling about PD is that everyone has inappropriate moments, and the PDs don't get it and do not see them as inappropriate… the normal people would be able to self reflect and recognize the wrongs and correct behavior accordingly. 

You are in good place since he has been diagnosed and it seems that he is working with you to become better.   
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2015, 04:46:43 PM »

my partner is NPDw… I have the opposite problem with her.  She is the silent type until she blows up and pile on with strange and unfounded accusations that often leave my head spinning.  So I don't even get to a constructive discussion part… 

My question is I am not sure if cutting someone off is a good thing… PD or not.  I also understand at times, some people maybe wordy.  Perhaps, if you haven't yet ... try to say "I think we are pretty on the same page and I really like to hear more what you have to say, I am in a hurry to [make up a good excuse here], I see your concern is [address it] and I shared the same.  Is there anything else you like to say before I really have to go?".   Kind of soft landing and acknowledge him for staying interested in an important topic (raising a child together).  My feeling about PD is that everyone has inappropriate moments, and the PDs don't get it and do not see them as inappropriate… the normal people would be able to self reflect and recognize the wrongs and correct behavior accordingly. 

You are in good place since he has been diagnosed and it seems that he is working with you to become better.   

BPD is a spectrum disorder, so it's difficult to put every person into 1 category. He's not always this clear and receptive, hence why I posted it. Sunny days are good Smiling (click to insert in post)

He's been in a seasonal depression for 3 months, hasn't spoken to his family in that entire time for no reason that's obvious. He doesn't work. He stays home, complains about not doing anything... .but doesn't do anything. He thinks he's worthless, he's certain I'm going to cheat because he's not worth anything. When he goes into rages, he hates me, I'm an idiot, he wants a divorce. He will break things, put holes in walls. He's never wrong, he's the smartest, he has the best ideas. The music he likes is the best. He movies he likes are the best and if you don't like them well... .you are a moron.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. One post does not paint the entire picture Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Cutting him off was a bad idea. I didn't realize how bad until he told me. Mind you, we have had fights like these for 5 years, so for the first time of me hearing what he thinks about it was big news for me.
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2015, 07:58:25 PM »

    Be good to yourself CE, you're not a mind reader! 

We learn to protect ourselves, whatever way we can.  When their words hurt us, we fight back, in our own ways. 

I think the fact that you recognized one of his triggers is great news.  I would make sure to tell him how good it was to have a healthy constructive conversation, and thank him for his role in it. 


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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2015, 09:55:28 AM »

He's never wrong, he's the smartest, he has the best ideas. The music he likes is the best. He movies he likes are the best and if you don't like them well... .you are a moron.

Another similarity between our husbands. My husband was raised by a classic (and extreme) NPD dad and those traits just tend to rub off.

He's got to have the best stereo, the best cameras. He thinks his taste in movies and music is the best.

If I have a different opinion on a movie, he thinks I'm not smart, sensitive, aware enough to "get it" unless someone else whose opinion he respects is similar to mine. Then he'll flip flop and we're all on the same page. 
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2015, 10:48:12 AM »

He's never wrong, he's the smartest, he has the best ideas. The music he likes is the best. He movies he likes are the best and if you don't like them well... .you are a moron.

Another similarity between our husbands. My husband was raised by a classic (and extreme) NPD dad and those traits just tend to rub off.

He's got to have the best stereo, the best cameras. He thinks his taste in movies and music is the best.

If I have a different opinion on a movie, he thinks I'm not smart, sensitive, aware enough to "get it" unless someone else whose opinion he respects is similar to mine. Then he'll flip flop and we're all on the same page. 

Oh man don't I know it. I mean, we agree on a lot of things, but the things I do not agree with... .I just do not say a word. I used to try to say things like... ."everyone has different tastes and opinions, none of them are wrong" but I do not get anywhere with it. So, I usually say nothing and just nod when he's going off about how great something is that I don't like, or I try to find something I honestly like about it and comment only on that part.

The thing that makes me want to bury my head in the sand is watching him try to force feed his likes onto people. His son, for instance, likes heavy metal music, and we like more ACL/Americana music. I do not need to tell you how this plays out. *shakes head*
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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2015, 02:04:49 PM »

Oh man don't I know it. I mean, we agree on a lot of things, but the things I do not agree with... .I just do not say a word. I used to try to say things like... ."everyone has different tastes and opinions, none of them are wrong" but I do not get anywhere with it. So, I usually say nothing and just nod when he's going off about how great something is that I don't like, or I try to find something I honestly like about it and comment only on that part.

The thing that makes me want to bury my head in the sand is watching him try to force feed his likes onto people. His son, for instance, likes heavy metal music, and we like more ACL/Americana music. I do not need to tell you how this plays out. *shakes head*

Yep, that's a good strategy. Just keep my lips zipped. I'm managing to do that more nowadays rather than compulsively answer questions or offer my opinion. Definitely keeps the peace better.

And my husband will sometimes bore someone silly with some Buddhist thing or talking about learning the Tibetan language. It doesn't happen often, thankfully, but it's like watching paint dry when he starts on one of his tangents.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2015, 02:48:16 PM »

Oh man don't I know it. I mean, we agree on a lot of things, but the things I do not agree with... .I just do not say a word. I used to try to say things like... ."everyone has different tastes and opinions, none of them are wrong" but I do not get anywhere with it. So, I usually say nothing and just nod when he's going off about how great something is that I don't like, or I try to find something I honestly like about it and comment only on that part.

The thing that makes me want to bury my head in the sand is watching him try to force feed his likes onto people. His son, for instance, likes heavy metal music, and we like more ACL/Americana music. I do not need to tell you how this plays out. *shakes head*

Yep, that's a good strategy. Just keep my lips zipped. I'm managing to do that more nowadays rather than compulsively answer questions or offer my opinion. Definitely keeps the peace better.

And my husband will sometimes bore someone silly with some Buddhist thing or talking about learning the Tibetan language. It doesn't happen often, thankfully, but it's like watching paint dry when he starts on one of his tangents.

ROFL my husband does that with military stuff... .like different kinds of planes and helicopters and what types of artillery they can carry. I usually smile and nod, and make out the budget or grocery shopping list in my head. Bless his heart... .he repeats himself over and over again.
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« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2015, 03:58:38 PM »

I can soo relate to this. We got in a strange mini-argument one time because I wasn't mad enough at the villain in a movie.

What the... .really?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

He said it was my "tone" that sounded like I was defending the bad guy. I wanted to burst out laughing, but didn't.

My tone?    I was defending the bad guy?

Once I figured out he just wanted me to be as outraged by the fictional character as he was, the rest was easy. Good thing we never argue over silly stuff, just important matters... .like movies! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2015, 04:10:22 PM »

I can soo relate to this. We got in a strange mini-argument one time because I wasn't mad enough at the villain in a movie.

What the... .really?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

He said it was my "tone" that sounded like I was defending the bad guy. I wanted to burst out laughing, but didn't.

My tone?    I was defending the bad guy?

Once I figured out he just wanted me to be as outraged by the fictional character as he was, the rest was easy. Good thing we never argue over silly stuff, just important matters... .like movies! Smiling (click to insert in post)

OH man... .you can NOT make this stuff up! Been there done that rofl He got mad because I thought these two characters were pretty slutty (10 dudes in what appears to be a 2 weeks time seems pretty slutty, imo) and he kept trying to defend them like... .defend their honor or something. They are not real people but characters on a show O.o After a while, eh said something like "Well, if they are sluts, you said you don't have use for sluts."

So... .his whole argument is I wouldn't find false value in false people, and if I did that I would be disagreeing with him... .who DOES put false value into them... .thus I am undermining HIS thoughts on the subject, so he would be WRONG then. And we cannot have that. Oh... .bless his heart.

Honestly almost all of our arguments are silly. It's always some sort of bizarro BPS interpretation I have to figure out rofl
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« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2015, 04:29:08 PM »

my partner is NPDw… I have the opposite problem with her.  She is the silent type until she blows up and pile on with strange and unfounded accusations that often leave my head spinning.  So I don't even get to a constructive discussion part… 

My question is I am not sure if cutting someone off is a good thing… PD or not.  I also understand at times, some people maybe wordy.  Perhaps, if you haven't yet ... try to say "I think we are pretty on the same page and I really like to hear more what you have to say, I am in a hurry to [make up a good excuse here], I see your concern is [address it] and I shared the same.  Is there anything else you like to say before I really have to go?".   Kind of soft landing and acknowledge him for staying interested in an important topic (raising a child together).  My feeling about PD is that everyone has inappropriate moments, and the PDs don't get it and do not see them as inappropriate… the normal people would be able to self reflect and recognize the wrongs and correct behavior accordingly. 

You are in good place since he has been diagnosed and it seems that he is working with you to become better.   

BPD is a spectrum disorder, so it's difficult to put every person into 1 category. He's not always this clear and receptive, hence why I posted it. Sunny days are good Smiling (click to insert in post)

He's been in a seasonal depression for 3 months, hasn't spoken to his family in that entire time for no reason that's obvious. He doesn't work. He stays home, complains about not doing anything... .but doesn't do anything. He thinks he's worthless, he's certain I'm going to cheat because he's not worth anything. When he goes into rages, he hates me, I'm an idiot, he wants a divorce. He will break things, put holes in walls. He's never wrong, he's the smartest, he has the best ideas. The music he likes is the best. He movies he likes are the best and if you don't like them well... .you are a moron.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. One post does not paint the entire picture Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Cutting him off was a bad idea. I didn't realize how bad until he told me. Mind you, we have had fights like these for 5 years, so for the first time of me hearing what he thinks about it was big news for me.

Yes, I agree with the BPD being a spectrum.  Recently I read a book ... .and it described my NPDw to a tee... .has your partner started to contact your shared friends and family members and character assassinate you and to the extent that my NPDw saying strangest things and lies to my daughter, confused the heck out of her.  It is really strange.  It is really living with an enemy.  I bend over back wards to tolerate and put up with her controlling and dominating ways and she turns around fighting me for things that don't exist and never happened.  She constantly demeaning me ... .on everything and she even make up things about how she knows of people that she never talk to and how they have horrible opinions of me ... .all these rage happened infront of my kids.  My NPDw is sociopathic to me ... .she has no empathy on anything ... .my dad and my relatives passed and she offers no one word of condolence and when I approached her for support when my dad passed, she coldly looked at me and told me that he was my dad and I had to deal with it (not in exact words, but essentially she had no interest in helping me grieving).  I was there for her when her father passed and now I realize that I shouldn't be there for her.  Because I think PDs tend to take kind gestures as a criticism to their inability to return and they become more raged when putting in the same situation.  Lots things to learn and I am not clear why I am chosen to be with someone like her and do you sometime wonder why you are in your situation as well?  There has to be meaning behind all these madness.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2015, 04:33:04 PM »

I can soo relate to this. We got in a strange mini-argument one time because I wasn't mad enough at the villain in a movie.

What the... .really?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

He said it was my "tone" that sounded like I was defending the bad guy. I wanted to burst out laughing, but didn't.

My tone?    I was defending the bad guy?

Once I figured out he just wanted me to be as outraged by the fictional character as he was, the rest was easy. Good thing we never argue over silly stuff, just important matters... .like movies! Smiling (click to insert in post)

OH man... .you can NOT make this stuff up! Been there done that rofl He got mad because I thought these two characters were pretty slutty (10 dudes in what appears to be a 2 weeks time seems pretty slutty, imo) and he kept trying to defend them like... .defend their honor or something. They are not real people but characters on a show O.o After a while, eh said something like "Well, if they are sluts, you said you don't have use for sluts."

So... .his whole argument is I wouldn't find false value in false people, and if I did that I would be disagreeing with him... .who DOES put false value into them... .thus I am undermining HIS thoughts on the subject, so he would be WRONG then. And we cannot have that. Oh... .bless his heart.

Honestly almost all of our arguments are silly. It's always some sort of bizarro BPS interpretation I have to figure out rofl

LOL No, we could not make this up if we tried! I thought I was in the twilight zone at first. He accused me of defending and "relating" to Nurse Ratchet in One Who Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Really? Rationale on his part was that she was cruel to mental patients... .and if I was like her... .and he's mental... .well? Well what? I'm going to give him a lobotomy? All I did was comment on when she walked in and the place was trashed how I'd be so upset - that was my OCD talking, not necessarily relating to the character. I didn't think he'd go there! In the future, lips zipped... .and find nothing in common with bad guys in movies. Ever.

Honestly, I felt like I had just flown into the cuckoo's nest!

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« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2015, 04:43:00 PM »

my partner is NPDw… I have the opposite problem with her.  She is the silent type until she blows up and pile on with strange and unfounded accusations that often leave my head spinning.  So I don't even get to a constructive discussion part… 

My question is I am not sure if cutting someone off is a good thing… PD or not.  I also understand at times, some people maybe wordy.  Perhaps, if you haven't yet ... try to say "I think we are pretty on the same page and I really like to hear more what you have to say, I am in a hurry to [make up a good excuse here], I see your concern is [address it] and I shared the same.  Is there anything else you like to say before I really have to go?".   Kind of soft landing and acknowledge him for staying interested in an important topic (raising a child together).  My feeling about PD is that everyone has inappropriate moments, and the PDs don't get it and do not see them as inappropriate… the normal people would be able to self reflect and recognize the wrongs and correct behavior accordingly. 

You are in good place since he has been diagnosed and it seems that he is working with you to become better.   

BPD is a spectrum disorder, so it's difficult to put every person into 1 category. He's not always this clear and receptive, hence why I posted it. Sunny days are good Smiling (click to insert in post)

He's been in a seasonal depression for 3 months, hasn't spoken to his family in that entire time for no reason that's obvious. He doesn't work. He stays home, complains about not doing anything... .but doesn't do anything. He thinks he's worthless, he's certain I'm going to cheat because he's not worth anything. When he goes into rages, he hates me, I'm an idiot, he wants a divorce. He will break things, put holes in walls. He's never wrong, he's the smartest, he has the best ideas. The music he likes is the best. He movies he likes are the best and if you don't like them well... .you are a moron.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. One post does not paint the entire picture Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Cutting him off was a bad idea. I didn't realize how bad until he told me. Mind you, we have had fights like these for 5 years, so for the first time of me hearing what he thinks about it was big news for me.

Yes, I agree with the BPD being a spectrum.  Recently I read a book ... .and it described my NPDw to a tee... .has your partner started to contact your shared friends and family members and character assassinate you and to the extent that my NPDw saying strangest things and lies to my daughter, confused the heck out of her.  It is really strange.  It is really living with an enemy.  I bend over back wards to tolerate and put up with her controlling and dominating ways and she turns around fighting me for things that don't exist and never happened.  She constantly demeaning me ... .on everything and she even make up things about how she knows of people that she never talk to and how they have horrible opinions of me ... .all these rage happened infront of my kids.  My NPDw is sociopathic to me ... .she has no empathy on anything ... .my dad and my relatives passed and she offers no one word of condolence and when I approached her for support when my dad passed, she coldly looked at me and told me that he was my dad and I had to deal with it (not in exact words, but essentially she had no interest in helping me grieving).  I was there for her when her father passed and now I realize that I shouldn't be there for her.  Because I think PDs tend to take kind gestures as a criticism to their inability to return and they become more raged when putting in the same situation.  Lots things to learn and I am not clear why I am chosen to be with someone like her and do you sometime wonder why you are in your situation as well?  There has to be meaning behind all these madness.

Pou, the problem is how they process information. If their brain was a computer... .all 'data' we put into it has to go through the "BPD filter." The filter is flawed of course... .we know that. They don't, or refuse to know that. Mine is self aware so most of the time he does know his downsides. We talk about them. Does it always stop the behavior? Nope. His knee-jerk reaction is defend and protect himself from any and all attacks. The issue is what he perceives as attacks because of the BPD filter. I hope that makes sense.

What it sounds like with your wife is it's similar but she's unaware/in denial of her problems. For instance in the example with your father, often times when we are hurt or need comfort they cannot provide it because our sad feelings makes them uncomfortable and they feel powerless. All that data goes through the BPD filter and pop! Protect! Defend! She's not angry at you... .she's angry at the feelings and take it out on you.

Oh, I wonder often about why I am where I am. I have a co-dependent personality, and I'm like flame to the moth of BPD it appears.

@Jessica84 I really felt like I was taking crazy pills until I found out what his condition was. I still feel like I'm on crazy pills at times... .but at least I know where it's coming from now rofl
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