Should I let him pay for his own mistakes?

[foxangel82]

I have a negotiating tip for you, in general: The first person to name a price usually loses.

So don't respond to his request about who owes who what.

Do think about it. Does he owe you anything? Do you owe him anything? Are there any shared assets or shared debts?

Another reason to not say anything... .when a pwBPD threatens to leave you, it doesn't mean as much to them as when you threaten to leave them... .or if you just act like you believe their threat. If you are thinking of reconciling with him still, no need for that provocation.

The costs of a low-conflict divorce are likely paid by the person more in a hurry to be legally unencumbered by the other... .for whatever reason.

How are you holding up?

At this point I am still trying to decide if I should just roll over and submit to a no fault divorce if he wants one or try to argue fault based grounds (cruelty and adultery). If I go no fault everything can probably be finished in less than 6 months since we have no kids and not much property. I just don't know whether divorce records are public information or not. If so, I want to think more about using it to warn other women. Maybe it's not worth the hassle and costs.

In some ways I feel like the legal system is failing women. There's no easy way to check if someone is married or has a violent past.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

  You sound like you are all over the map. 

My only recommendation right now is to minimize contact if you can--don't contact him, don't look at his facebook, etc.

Give yourself a little quiet time away from him to sort out some of your own feelings.

You don't have to DO anything today or tomorrow, or even next week about this whole mess.

I hope you have a good weekend!

[formflier]

 

Whatever you can do... .to stop "imagining" what he or his T will recommend... .or do... or ask and focus on almost anything else... .is good.

Focus on what you can do to be a healthier you... .

going out to eat is good.  Finding friends to go with is better... .

Do you have books that you like to read?  A project you have been meaning to start?

[foxangel82]

Whatever you can do... .to stop "imagining" what he or his T will recommend... .or do... or ask and focus on almost anything else... .is good.

Focus on what you can do to be a healthier you... .

going out to eat is good.  Finding friends to go with is better... .

Do you have books that you like to read?  A project you have been meaning to start?

I tried to make plans with friends to join me in DC but they were visiting their folks in another state and I guess it's the super bowl which I don't care about.  I was going to try to go out to a dance club tonight, but I've lost the desire since it's so cold out.

I'm not stalking him on facebook.  I just don't know if I should unfriend his sister so that he can't stalk me.  I'm pretty much taking the high road and not bashing him on facebook and other places, but it's very tempting to expose the truth about him. Yet, I know any attempt to do that will just make me look like the crazy ex so there's no point and it won't help me move on.

I don't send him emails, texts or messages and I haven't responded to his last message about owing each other property/money.

I'm not trying to do anything in a hurry.  It seems like he's in a rush to make a decision to end it. 

I've made a list of pros/cons about H.  I need to stay positive about his decision to leave by reminding myself of all the phrases that start with "H will never... ."  Like H will never be able to comfort me emotionally when I am upset.  Seeing me upset dysregulates him and I end up turning around and comforting him--something he admits happens.

I'm doing some organization stuff at home that I've been putting off but it's pretty dull so there's not much motivation to do it.  I've made myself a little bucket list of things to do with the rest of my life to keep me motivated to keep living.  I feel like the honest truth is if I don't have a husband or kids 10 years from now I will probably kill myself.

I'm reading books but they are all about loving someone with BPD.  I've been catching up on watching movies.  I take long runs outside when the weather is nice which doesn't really help because it just leads me to think about things. 

Everyday I write about my thoughts and feelings since the start of all the stuff that went down in the fall and I will probably turn it all into a book one day.

[foxangel82]

So it's been a while, and I figured I should post an update.

I never heard back from his therapist.  This seems unprofessional.  She said she would reply and recommend other therapists if my husband did not consent to reconciling.

After he called me at work on January 26th to tell me it was over I felt like I probably wouldn't hear from her.

Earlier this week I set up 2 consultations with therapists that have some experience with BPD.  I want to go more for myself at this point than to deal with my relationship issues.  Like to gain perspective and see the forest instead of the trees.

It was hard because our wedding anniversary was just a few days ago.  I'm at the point where I am leaving what happens up to him.  I feel like I could be happy with him and I could be happy without him.

I sent him a book as a gift on January 23 (the anniversary of our first date).  It was a book he had on his amazon wish list and it was sent with a gift message.  There was back and forth between us over it. He wanted me to take the book.  I said it was a gift.  Eventually he left it on my doorstep one night (over the weekend of Feb 1) along with photos and photo magnets of us.  To me that really meant that he was moving on and trying to forget our relationship.

I received an email and another text from him asking whether either of us owed the other money or property.  I have not replied to him.  For the most part I have given him all the property he's asked for (and more).  I have consistently dropped off his mail at his new address (without meeting him face to face).  There are maybe only a couple things of his that I still have -a bookcase, plastic drawers, and some plastic crates.  He has not mentioned these things and I'm not sure if he even wants them, but if he does I am willing to give them to him.

I could see him thinking I might possibly owe him money as I stately previously.  I am willing to give him money, I don't care.  I could also argue that he owes me money since he has used my flexible spending account and I will be responsible for the charges if I am audited and don't have the receipts to back it up.

He called me on 2/13/15, but I didn't answer because I figured it would be the same message that he'd been leaving me about sorting out money/property.  And I want to be able to think through my responses carefully.  My stomach churns when I see him calling.

He sounded nervous and upset on the phone his message word for word was:

Hi foxangel82, this is Mr. Foxangel82.  Um, I want to apologize for calling you at work about a couple weeks ago. Um, yeah.  Uh, I, yeah I can try to find excuses, but either way I feel like it was inconsiderate towards you and um, I've been thinking about it must have been terrible for you to hear that at work.  Um, so I just want to apologize, sorry for that.  Um, but I do want to talk to you about some things.  Um. It would be good if you could, um message me back with a time, which, um, which I can, that we can meet uh with, hmm with um, possibly mediating through um, my therapist, um yeah, so, it would be good if you could leave me your availability so that I could arrange some sort of meeting with you, me and my therapist for mediation.  Alright, bye.

So I'm a little perplexed.  On the one hand, I'm glad he's apologizing and I wonder if this came about from his therapy sessions.  On the other hand he doesn't say that he wants me back or that he's sorry for other things that he's done.  Another plus is that he's trying to meet with his therapist instead of his lawyer, but it could just be the therapist is cheaper.  If he wants something from me or feels like I owe him money or property why doesn't he just say so?

Part of me feels like this meeting will be a trap.  I feel like I'm bringing a stick to a gunfight.  Maybe he will just use it to lure me there and serve me with divorce papers or a separation agreement.  I shouldn't get my hopes up.  It could be he's just going to run me through the gauntlet and give a laundry list of things I've done wrong.  

It could be he will just use me as his 9th step out of 12 (Make direct amends to people you have harmed wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others).  This doesn't seem as plausible since he appears to have taken up drinking again.

It bothers me that his therapist isn't reaching out.  I am concerned that he didn't clear this mediation with her first.  My plan is to contact her via email (we've already been emailing in the past) and see what her availability is like and she can arrange something with him.

I think I should go to this meeting--avoiding it is probably just avoiding something that is inevitable and it will be good to have someone else there to referee.  

Would it be wise for me to ask if I can meet with her one on one beforehand?  I'm not sure how I will feel about meeting her for the first time during a mediation.

Does mediation just stand for working out the details of a divorce/separation or could it also mean reconciliation?

[Grey Kitty]

One of my best (and toughest!) supporters keeps asking me a question, and it seems to fit this time for you:

"Where are you in all of this?"

I hear lots about what he might be thinking, might want to do, might do to you, along with some about what his therapist is/isn't doing... .all valid concerns, but there is something bigger missing here.

What sort of reconciliation do you want, if any?

[foxangel82]

One of my best (and toughest!) supporters keeps asking me a question, and it seems to fit this time for you:

"Where are you in all of this?"

I hear lots about what he might be thinking, might want to do, might do to you, along with some about what his therapist is/isn't doing... .all valid concerns, but there is something bigger missing here.

What sort of reconciliation do you want, if any?

I guess I don't mention what I want because I feel like it will be dependent on what he does.

Ideally, I want to work things out with him and save our marriage. I feel like reaching out to his T makes this clear to him. 

Friends of his have reached out to me and talked to me, without me initiating contact with them. They are surprised to hear he is trying to date other people and throwing away our marriage. Of these 3 friends, one was going to speak to my H last week (his idea not mine), but I haven't heard back from him. I have told these friends I am pretty upset and want to fix things but if he wants to split up that's what we will do. 

A bird can't fly with just one wing. I can want to save the marriage but if he doesn't want to then it won't work.

I am logical and practical. I am open to different solutions. One being that if he wants to reconcile we should start out by dating, living apart and going to counseling apart and together. The more I see the less likely this seems to be what he wants.

On the other hand, I would be open to us each openly dating other people if he was still undecided. I think it would be best if this was fair and had a set timeline (maybe a few months) for making a decision.

I am nervous about seeing him. I know I still have feelings for him.

Part of my concern is how to react to what he will say. I remember reading that people with BPD interpret neutral faces as angry. I am stressing over how to react. If I cry I think he will dysregulate and it will upset him. If I'm neutral he will think I'm angry. Pretending to be happy is too fake. I know I can only control what I do.

[Grey Kitty]

I am nervous about seeing him. I know I still have feelings for him.

Part of my concern is how to react to what he will say. I remember reading that people with BPD interpret neutral faces as angry. I am stressing over how to react. If I cry I think he will dysregulate and it will upset him. If I'm neutral he will think I'm angry. Pretending to be happy is too fake. I know I can only control what I do.

It would be safer to keep your communications with him in email rather than seeing him face to face. However you will get more connection and emotional impact (in both directions) face to face. It is a difficult choice to make. (And one I'm working through for myself right now!)

Trying to imagine the entire process of reconciling with him and figuring out what you think of that, based on what he might do is probably too much for you.

Instead, imagine just talking to him for half an hour about your relationship. Try to let go of your fears around how he would react to you. What are your feelings? What do you want out of that?

[foxangel82]

It would be safer to keep your communications with him in email rather than seeing him face to face. However you will get more connection and emotional impact (in both directions) face to face. It is a difficult choice to make. (And one I'm working through for myself right now!)

Trying to imagine the entire process of reconciling with him and figuring out what you think of that, based on what he might do is probably too much for you.

Instead, imagine just talking to him for half an hour about your relationship. Try to let go of your fears around how he would react to you. What are your feelings? What do you want out of that?

My feelings are that I am afraid. It's strange since I already have a good idea of what outcomes are possible from meeting him. I already know it's very likely that he wants to leave me but I fear hearing it confirmed.  Being in limbo is torture and comforting at the same time.

What I want is to be off the roller coaster and to be able to not have the need to over-analyze things like I'm in middle school. I want to know what he wants. I want to form a plan based on what he decides. I want to know if he still has feelings for me.  

I feel like if I let my imagination picture my perfect idea of reconciling the meeting will look nothing like that. Things won't work out that way. It's better for me to have low expectations and imagine the worst case of what will happen at the meeting.  The added benefit is I won't be caught off guard. I'm expecting a flogging at this point and maybe I deserve it. I have a lot of restraint and I will need to keep myself from feeling defensive.

I think I should try to meet with my own T first to get advice, but our next session isn't until Friday morning.

[Grey Kitty]

   

Can you make a plan for what you want to do if his expressed feelings for you flap in the breeze, bouncing from idealization to ending things, and/or he continues to give you mixed messages?

I'm afraid his prior behavior points that direction perhaps more than the direction of cleanly ending it.

My biggest fear about my wife is that she come to me with half of what I need from her and I'll need to make that sort of tough choice.

[foxangel82]

 

Can you make a plan for what you want to do if his expressed feelings for you flap in the breeze, bouncing from idealization to ending things, and/or he continues to give you mixed messages?

I'm afraid his prior behavior points that direction perhaps more than the direction of cleanly ending it.

My biggest fear about my wife is that she come to me with half of what I need from her and I'll need to make that sort of tough choice.

Well, my plan was to let us have an open relationship until a deadline and then he would need to decide. I'm hoping his T will help keep him accountable to what he agrees to. In my mind they have already been planning what to address with me.

I am lucky that he is pretty good about listening and can be reasonable.  I'll be happy to drive in a separate car this time though. I think he almost needs a cool down period after the meeting which is something we didn't have when we did the couples counseling session on 11/30/14.

I guess I'm worried now that he will put the ball in my court and leave things up to me. I feel like my answer will be conditional. If he wants to reconcile then I am open to that.  If he agrees to reconcile I would want him to stop using dating websites and apps and to get tested for STDs. I would want him to share his mental health diagnosis with me. I would want him to let me meet with his T who can hopefully give me hands on training for dealing with him. Ideally she would keep his interaction with me in line. I would be fine only seeing each other in the presence of his T for a while if he needs that to trust me.

In terms of boundaries I wouldn't have sex with him until he was committed to me and gotten tested. If I catch him on dating websites after he says he's stopped using them then I would leave him. If he is physically violent again I would leave.

But at this point I'm not expecting him to agree to any of this.

[Grey Kitty]

Well, my plan was to let us have an open relationship until a deadline and then he would need to decide.

I really don't get this one. I don't remember you ever saying you wanted an open relationship or that you were ever considering one. (Disclosure: My disintegrating marriage has been an open marriage at times; I'm not strictly against such things--I thought you were!)

If you can't handle him seeing other people as part of his relationship with you, then don't give him a mixed message about it.

I don't know that giving him a deadline is going to be very helpful.

I *DO* think that giving yourself a deadline has a lot of potential--you just don't have to tell him about it. How long are you willing to wait in your current separated, uncommitted state before you are completely done with the marriage yourself?

In terms of boundaries I wouldn't have sex with him until he was committed to me and gotten tested. If I catch him on dating websites after he says he's stopped using them then I would leave him. If he is physically violent again I would leave.

All good boundaries on your part.

I guess I'm worried now that he will put the ball in my court and leave things up to me. I feel like my answer will be conditional. If he wants to reconcile then I am open to that.  If he agrees to reconcile I would want him to stop using dating websites and apps and to get tested for STDs. I would want him to share his mental health diagnosis with me. I would want him to let me meet with his T who can hopefully give me hands on training for dealing with him.

I don't recommend that you do any of this this way.

As for as dating sites/apps and STD testing, if he puts the ball in your court, state your boundary--that you require those things before you will have sex with him.  [Note on STD testing... .I did some googling... .it is hard to get a good answer, but getting tested a few couple weeks or months after last exposure is a good idea assuming there are no symptoms. So your best case scenario might involve protected sex with him for a while even after initial testing.]

I highly recommend you steer clear of his individual T. Insisting that he get therapy is one thing. Insisting that you get his diagnosis and talk to his therapist seems bad--it gets you way too involved in his mental health, and you are already way to involved. Your path to dealing with this well is getting less enmeshed with him, not more!

If you want hands-on T to help dealing with him, get your own T, and work with YOUR T on this. (And if YOUR T requests a session with him, worry about it then. Most likely it won't be needed.)

[waverider]

What I want is to be off the roller coaster and to be able to not have the need to over-analyze things like I'm in middle school. I want to know what he wants. I want to form a plan based on what he decides. I want to know if he still has feelings for me.  

You wont really know what he wants, because he doesn't.

You have to focus on knowing what you want.

He could tell you one thing now, and mean it, then in another month it may be something completely different

Such is the BPD rollercoaster, to step off you have to determine where your platform is.

To step off is a must, your choice is whether to stand by and watch him, and be there for him, or to step away as watching is making you dizzy.

[foxangel82]

Well, my plan was to let us have an open relationship until a deadline and then he would need to decide.

I really don't get this one. I don't remember you ever saying you wanted an open relationship or that you were ever considering one. (Disclosure: My disintegrating marriage has been an open marriage at times; I'm not strictly against such things--I thought you were!)

If you can't handle him seeing other people as part of his relationship with you, then don't give him a mixed message about it.

I don't know that giving him a deadline is going to be very helpful.

I *DO* think that giving yourself a deadline has a lot of potential--you just don't have to tell him about it. How long are you willing to wait in your current separated, uncommitted state before you are completely done with the marriage yourself?

In terms of boundaries I wouldn't have sex with him until he was committed to me and gotten tested. If I catch him on dating websites after he says he's stopped using them then I would leave him. If he is physically violent again I would leave.

All good boundaries on your part.

I guess I'm worried now that he will put the ball in my court and leave things up to me. I feel like my answer will be conditional. If he wants to reconcile then I am open to that.  If he agrees to reconcile I would want him to stop using dating websites and apps and to get tested for STDs. I would want him to share his mental health diagnosis with me. I would want him to let me meet with his T who can hopefully give me hands on training for dealing with him.

I don't recommend that you do any of this this way.

As for as dating sites/apps and STD testing, if he puts the ball in your court, state your boundary--that you require those things before you will have sex with him.  [Note on STD testing... .I did some googling... .it is hard to get a good answer, but getting tested a few couple weeks or months after last exposure is a good idea assuming there are no symptoms. So your best case scenario might involve protected sex with him for a while even after initial testing.]

I highly recommend you steer clear of his individual T. Insisting that he get therapy is one thing. Insisting that you get his diagnosis and talk to his therapist seems bad--it gets you way too involved in his mental health, and you are already way to involved. Your path to dealing with this well is getting less enmeshed with him, not more!

If you want hands-on T to help dealing with him, get your own T, and work with YOUR T on this. (And if YOUR T requests a session with him, worry about it then. Most likely it won't be needed.)

Well I don't want an open relationship.  He seems to think he can find some replacement for me (as if I was the problem).  We had something good together.  If he needs to try to date other people to figure that out then so be it. If I know that's what he's doing I'm fine with it.

What I DON'T like is not being honest with each other about it.  It would be one thing if we both knew that we were in an open relationship, but this was never discussed.  He just assumed it was over and couldn't wait to get on with his life.  We're talking, protective order filed Nov 30 and Dec 2 he's already online looking to date other women.  The cavalier nature of it is what bothers me.

The problem is, I told him I never would leave him and I meant it.  If he wants out of this relationship I want it to be his decision and for him to make the moves to leave me.

You asked me what I wanted out of the reconciliation. I want him to stop dating other women, that's my answer.

He has seen a few different therapists at this point. I keep wishing one of them had told me at one point that he had this disorder and it would have changed my entire approach to the relationship.  I guess the best thing to do is act like he has it regardless of whether anyone will admit it to me.  I am seeing my own T and he has worked with people with BPD so I'm sure he can help me learn more of the tools and techniques.  At this point it may be useless to learn anyway.

I am not involved at all in his mental health at this point.  What I want is to see a couples counselor to deal with our issues.  His T said previously she would work with us.  I don't see a problem with the 3 of us meeting together, in fact I think it is better to have a 3rd party there than for just the 2 of us to meet.  Ideally that 3rd party would be neutral, but I can't be picky at this point.  Avoiding meeting him is probably just delaying the inevitable.

[Grey Kitty]

The problem is, I told him I never would leave him and I meant it.  If he wants out of this relationship I want it to be his decision and for him to make the moves to leave me.

He has three choices:

1. Reconcile with you in some way that works for you.

2. Leave you in some clear fashion.

3. Jerk you around, dating other women, while still technically married to you.

You have no control over what he chooses. Your description sounds a lot like #3.

You have choices right now:

A. Change your mind and decide to leave him.

B. Wait for him to get tired of his choice #3.

[foxangel82]

The problem is, I told him I never would leave him and I meant it.  If he wants out of this relationship I want it to be his decision and for him to make the moves to leave me.

He has three choices:

1. Reconcile with you in some way that works for you.

2. Leave you in some clear fashion.

3. Jerk you around, dating other women, while still technically married to you.

You have no control over what he chooses. Your description sounds a lot like #3.

You have choices right now:

A. Change your mind and decide to leave him.

B. Wait for him to get tired of his choice #3.

Yup already concluded we are going with 3 & B. I'm just viewing this as a big extinction burst for him.

I emailed his T the following:

"First, I want to thank you for working with H.  I am happy he is getting the help he needs and trust that you will take good care of him.  I hope that reaching out  did not cause any distress for him.  I did not intend to put pressure on him to make a decision about our relationship right away.

I didn't see a reply from you.  I assumed that meant that H declined giving permission for us to meet based on the conflict of interest.  I received a message from him on Friday stating he wanted to set up mediation with you and me.  Is this something he has already discussed with you?  I  can't understand why he wants to meet if he has already called to tell me it's over.

I am not angry with him and I have forgiven him.  I miss him and I want him to be happy."

Apparently her reply to me below is very telling.


"I am not sure what H would like to do at this point. I can discuss this with him again and see if he can offer a direction soon. Yes, there is a conflict of interest if he does not wish to work on the relationship with you. If he does not want to work on things with you and H, and you still wish to have therapy, I would recommend (therapist name). I am sorry to not be able to give you a more definitive answer, do you know if H is talking about mediation for a separation or for a reconciliation? It is a confusing situation for you I am sure. You may need to be making your decisions independent of his. I will try to get back to you by the end of the week or early next week. I do wish you the best in all of this situation.

Thank you

T"

I replied to her that H did not state the purpose of the mediation and I had found another T but if things didn't work out I would look into her recommendation.

She emailed me again this morning saying I should make a choice independent of H. I feel like I have already made my choice, but it takes 2 to tango.   She makes it seem like she broached it with him once already if she says she will discuss it with him "again".

Oh wel.  More waiting I guess. Maybe he just had a moment of weakness on Friday. I think based on his behavior he's not ready to talk. He's pursuing girls more than ever, back to drinking "sometimes" and taken up smoking pot. I asked the state attorney if he needs to take drug tests as part of his deal. 

I don't understand his urgency. We can file separate taxes. The only pressing issue is renewing the shared car insurance which is due in about a month. I actually make his costs go down when I'm on his policy even after adding an extra car. If he wants me to split the costs with him ($500/year) he should just say so. There's no need for mediation.

[Grey Kitty]

The problem is, I told him I never would leave him and I meant it.  If he wants out of this relationship I want it to be his decision and for him to make the moves to leave me.

He has three choices:

1. Reconcile with you in some way that works for you.

2. Leave you in some clear fashion.

3. Jerk you around, dating other women, while still technically married to you.

You have no control over what he chooses. Your description sounds a lot like #3.

You have choices right now:

A. Change your mind and decide to leave him.

B. Wait for him to get tired of his choice #3.

Yup already concluded we are going with 3 & B. I'm just viewing this as a big extinction burst for him.

Do you have a time limit on this state of things / extinction burst?

From personal experience... .the "waiting" part is a pretty sucky place to be in.

[foxangel82]

The problem is, I told him I never would leave him and I meant it.  If he wants out of this relationship I want it to be his decision and for him to make the moves to leave me.

He has three choices:

1. Reconcile with you in some way that works for you.

2. Leave you in some clear fashion.

3. Jerk you around, dating other women, while still technically married to you.

You have no control over what he chooses. Your description sounds a lot like #3.

You have choices right now:

A. Change your mind and decide to leave him.

B. Wait for him to get tired of his choice #3.

Yup already concluded we are going with 3 & B. I'm just viewing this as a big extinction burst for him.

Do you have a time limit on this state of things / extinction burst?

From personal experience... .the "waiting" part is a pretty sucky place to be in.

Yes, the waiting has been tough. I never did hear back from his T, but with her track record I'm not surprised.

He did finally email me on 2/24/15

"Hi fox angel,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Can you release the last bank statements of the formerly joint accounts at BoA and the Credit Union. How do you propose that we divide the money up? If there was < $1000 in the The Credit Union account, then I'm fine with the status quo, but if there was more, we will need to work something out by e-mail. I am happy with the current division of the BoA account and would like to know if you are as well.

Then please let me know if there are any other outstanding property / financial issues, e.g. bills and rent or other debts. Once this is settled, I will send you a proposed separation agreement that will indicate that neither of us will seek to gain any further funds from the other. If there are no objections, I will sign two copies of such agreement, get them notarized, and then hand them to you to get signed and notarized. Then you can give me one copy back.

Unless you can think of a reason otherwise, we will be filing federal and state taxes separately for 2014."

I had to laugh when I read he was happy how the BoA account was divided. He took it all of course he's happy about it. So it sounds like he clearly wants a separation.  In another email he threatened to get a lawyer if I don't reply soon.

I'm overwhelmed with decisions.  I spoke to a lawyer and she made it seem like it's too hard to prove adultery and not worth the expense. It seems like most judges will just grant a no fault divorce.

I don't really think I can make too many plans until it's all settled. I can't really move until I know if I need to go to court. My T thinks I need to think about the future but it feels morally wrong to go on dates and be married.

I feel like my T thinks I'm a psychopath because I'm not getting very emotional about the things that are happening and what my H is saying about me online. But I know if I feed anger it will consume me and I cannot let this break me no matter how much it hurts. It's all a blessing in disguise.

If my H showed up tonight at my door begging to reconcile I don't know what I would do, but I know I would feel skeptical.

[Grey Kitty]

  Yep, the waiting is tough.

 Finding out that there is nothing to wait for is tough too.

My wife came by to collect her physical belongings from our boat on Wednesday, and while we were negotiating that, she told me clearly that she didn't want to reconcile.

We haven't done the financial division yet. I still do trust her (with joint money), however I'm trying to reduce the ways that I need to trust her. I'm not sure how wise it is, but I'm not ready to do something different today.

[Grey Kitty]

Oh yeah... .regarding the separation agreement/divorce options/etc.

Suggestion #1: Post on the legal board, not the staying board--you will get some good practical answers there.

About the money he took out of the joint account... .a couple practical questions:

1. Is it enough money to worry about / chase after? If you have to use a lawyer that is gonna run you something ($500~5000?) If the legal costs will exceed what you are getting, it seems like a lot of stress and pain for nothing good.

2. Does he even have the money / ability to pay you? Getting a legal judgement that he has to return money to you... .which he doesn't have... .will leave you dangling waiting for it for years. Or perhaps more court costs to get his wages garnished, or something... .that sort of thing sounds painful and drawn out and ugly.

Answers to either of these may well point to getting it over with more quickly, even if it is unfair.

[waverider]

Sorry to hear you are going through this Foxangel

You may want to look at the following boards for advice in these matters

Leaving: Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship

Family law, divorce, and custody

Hopeful this will help to deal with closure.

Do not underestimate the level of grief you will be feeling, this can come at anytime especially as your emotions are frozen at the moment. The Leaving vboard is a good place to discuss this aspect

Best of Luck

Waverider

[Cat Familiar]

Really good suggestions, Grey Kitty. When I was going through my divorce, I thought all our financial matters were settled after I ended up paying $17,000 on a credit card for expenses he had incurred. I was really pi$$ed off when I discovered there were more later. It left a really bad taste in my mouth when my attorney told me that it would be less expensive to just pay the balance instead of fighting it. But, he was absolutely right. It was so worth it to be done for good with my ex.

And Grey Kitty, I'm so sorry about how things have transpired between you and your wife.    You tried your best. And when you're ready, you'll be a great catch for some lucky woman out there. 

[foxangel82]

Really good suggestions, Grey Kitty. When I was going through my divorce, I thought all our financial matters were settled after I ended up paying $17,000 on a credit card for expenses he had incurred. I was really pi$$ed off when I discovered there were more later. It left a really bad taste in my mouth when my attorney told me that it would be less expensive to just pay the balance instead of fighting it. But, he was absolutely right. It was so worth it to be done for good with my ex.

And Grey Kitty, I'm so sorry about how things have transpired between you and your wife.    You tried your best. And when you're ready, you'll be a great catch for some lucky woman out there. 

I wouldn't fight him on the money, I had even considered giving him more.  I don't really care about it.

I am blessed that we don't have any children or a house or other joint property.

I don't have any grieving left to do since I had already reached the "acceptance" phase back in mid-December.  I had to prepare myself to be ok with whatever the outcome will be.

Grey Kitty, I'm sorry to hear about the turn of events in your life.  Just be careful, I too considered my H would be reasonable since we always communicated so well together.  Don't downplay their impulsive nature I guess.

[Turkish]

This thread has reached its posting limit. Please feel free to continue the discussion on the applicable boards.

Turkish