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Author Topic: BestVersionOfMe's Story  (Read 630 times)
BestVersionOfMe
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« on: January 30, 2015, 02:46:31 PM »

I'm 42, she's 39, we have one DD 10, one DS 8, and one DD 4.  She is a SAHM and I run my own company but don't have an office, at least not now.  We've been married 12 years and things really went south about 6 years ago.  Up to about 4 years ago I thought we had standard marital strife about finances or kids, etc.  I began to be concerned about the marriage and because of my wife's irrational argumentative styles never really got anywhere.  She seemed to be content with how things were.  She would do stuff with friends constantly, was very independent and my social life began to decrease.  Before I knew it I began to be resentful at her doing things all the time and me being "with the kids."  I felt comfortable in the relationship and secure until after DD 4 was born.  At that point my wife was clearly post-partum and for the most part shut me out of her life.  I began to drink more, especially since I felt shut out of her life.  I have rectified that now, still drink but I have limits for myself that is for me to be responsible.  I went on a forum that suggested that there might be another man in her life so I accused her of having an affair and that was the big moment that she stopped trusting me and it has been worse every since.  I had no proof of any affair of any kind so I think it is a non-issue, but my behavior from that moment went from security to becoming the pursuer.  I always wanted to "fix" us.  I wanted for us to do therapy.  I wanted to be closer.  I began to email her a lot because I couldn't speak to her.  Every time I'd bring up something to her she'd say I would lecture her and each time I went into a discussion with a cohesive strategy I came out the other end tongue-tied and wondering what the hell happened.  There has been a constant struggle of me feeling shut out, her being disrespectful to the kids and I, me getting frustrated and resentful and then blowing up every six months or so.

When did the wheels fall off? My wife was being exceptionally rude and disrespectful to the entire family for quite some time. No sex, no relationship of any kind other than raising the kids together. She came after me about a bill being paid late and through a fit about how she can't live like this any more and really being awful and unreasonable about it. I told her, "You know what you b___ a lot but you are never part of the solution. How about you go get a job and then we can make an appt to go see your Endocrinologist who has been mailing us letters and go figure out what is wrong." She got tested for Graves Disease by her endocrinologist but it was negative. He diagnosed her with Anxiety is all, gave her a book to read about it, and sent her on her way. The last time she went was last May and the Dr's office kept sending letters to the house that said, "I believe you have a medical condition that requires treatment. Please make an appointment, etc." I called her Dad and convinced to help me get her into the see the Dr. We went together after she told me how much she hated me me and was done with me and that she couldn't stand the sound of my voice." I came in prepared for the Dr appointment and the Dr shut me down. He was arrogant and didn't want to hear anyone question his decision. My goal was to get him to retest for Grave's Disease but he wouldn't hear it. My wife had a smug look on her face when it happened and that really emboldened her to be even more mean. The next day she was sending me nasty text that she was filing for separation and that she couldn't believe that I would do what I did. I explained that it wasn't to blame her, it was so that she might feel better which might help the family and our marriage. She kept calling me over and over and texting me "Where are you?" Eventually I was driving through town and she spotted me coming the other way. She flipped a u-turn and chased me for two miles as I was texting her to get away from me. I pulled into a parking lot and said I was filming her and to get away from me. Things calmed for a day or two and then she went out with a friend for beers. She came home drunk, she isn't an alcoholic or anything, in fact I drink more than she does, but this night she was upset and drunk. She kept pushing me to talk to her and I stayed silent. Eventually I admitted to her that I was through with the marriage, keep in mind she did the preemptive "I want a separation" a couple days before. With that she went on a lengthy drunk speech about how she was sad for us and she wants us to be friends, and then she'd get angry and say she was gonna "fight with every last ounce for the kids." It went back and forth and I felt a bit scared so I started the video on my iphone and recorded about 7 mins before she realized that I was filming her. She eventually leaped off the couch and attacked me and screamed, "give me that f****n phone" and tried to rip it from my hands as I said, ":)on't touch me and Honey what are you doing?" She eventually gave up and went upstairs and threatened to call the police. I preempted it and call them first and they came to the house. He interviewed me and watched the video then went upstairs to speak to her. He gave us both pamphlets for DV and then made her leave with her parents who live down the street. I was scared. We have spoken about it once, last night. She asked repeatedly why I did that and I said because I was afraid and needed to protect myself. She said I pushed her down, and I said, "You know that isn't what happened."

About 5 days later I packed a bag and moved out.  I emotionally couldn't stand the abuse any longer.  During this time I'm focused on making money, learning about my wife, and stumbled upon this forum as well as the shrink4men forum as well.  I think my wife displays many if not most of the characteristics of BPD.  Her repeated inability to say she can't trust anyone but herself.  Her controlling behaviors.  Her neurotic and paranoid behaviors.  When I first started reading about BPD I felt they wrote the book about my wife.  I think she is high functioning.  She behaves herself in social circles just fine.  She is fit, so am I.  I'm confused at this point.  My T from shrink4men said get the hell out and seemed to be very skewed in what she wanted me to do.  My Pastor said you must fight to save the marriage.  All the other advice is somewhere in between.  I don't want to break up the family and I'd like to work through it but my wife maintains there is nothing wrong with her which brings it back to me.  I'm an enabler and I recently learned I'm co-dependent in a big way.  I'm the White Knight and as soon as I began to under perform with my wife her attitude towards me changed.  She doesn't respect me, she is positive I'm crazy and after filming her that night she thinks I can't be trusted.  We aren't speaking much, just kind of doing what we need to do to organize with the kids and bills and our lives.  I'm staying at the house all day Sat and Sun with the kids and she is leaving, and I didn't bother to ask where.  I've had my role in the dysfunction of our marriage and my current thought is to fix my side of the fence first before I can feel good about leaving the relationship.  What I need help with doing and admittedly this is scary to me is:

1. Validating her feelings rather than telling her her feelings are invalid.

2. Setting boundaries and extinction.

3. Learning how to walk away from engaging her craziness and not letting it get to me.  I have a problem with wearing my heart on my sleeve so even silence can give her indicators that she is getting to me.

4. Worrying about myself first.  Me moving out of the house was not an act of weakness it was me removing myself from an unhealthy situation.  I'd never done anything like that before.  She is doing all the day to day with the kids and historically I'd allowed myself to run my company, but make all breakfasts and dinners, do all the dishes, half the homework,etc. 

I'd love to have a manageable relationship with her and I don't think her BPD is off the charts, but I certainly have to make some hard changes in myself and I'm hoping you all can help me.  The other forum is more hard core and just wants me to get the hell out.
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2015, 12:05:38 AM »

Hi BestVersionOfMe,

Welcome

We've been married 12 years and things really went south about 6 years ago.

I'm so sorry for what you and your family have been through. It's hard when things take a turn and you may  feel lost, confused, hopeless.

I'm glad that you have found us. Many members here share similar experiences and can offer guidance and support.

How are the kids coping?

At that point my wife was clearly post-partum

I can relate. My ex suffers from clinical depression, it's common for a pwBPD to have general anxiety disorder or clinical depression. PPD is very difficult for a loved one.

I went on a forum that suggested that there might be another man in her life so I accused her of having an affair and that was the big moment that she stopped trusting me and it has been worse every since.  I had no proof of any affair of any kind so I think it is a non-issue, but my behavior from that moment went from security to becoming the pursuer.

My spouse had an affair and in my case I had trigerred her abandonment fears. I didn't understand mental illness and the thought never crossed my mind a loved on could be mentally ill. I much like you became distraught with the irrational argumentative style and felt isolated and became frustrated and said "I wanted a divorce" and that was the catalyst for a series of events. Her fears of abandonment perceived or real were triggered.

I'm sorry that you were told that she may be having and affair and you may of felt triggered and confronted her. I think you just know. I wouldn't speculate and press your spouse. Accept perhaps that you acted on speculation and you may want to apologize?

If she said she's taking the kids it sounds like her abandonment fears were triggered. If your planning on staying, it's not fire I would play with. Don't threaten divorce you're going to make things worse. If you don't notice changes in her behaviors, becoming secretive and hiding things then take her for her word. Not every person with BPD is the same, just as not everyone cheats right?

I always wanted to "fix" us.  I wanted for us to do therapy.

I get your rationale and I'm guilty I this as well.

Change comes from you. Change doesn't come from someone else. I had gone to couples therapy with the notion that she needs to change. If I'm getting this wrong, I apologize.

It sounds like she has cold feet with MC? Is she receptive with going into her own T? Are you in T for yourself and not for both of you?

No sex, no relationship of any kind other than raising the kids together. She came after me about a bill being paid late and through a fit about how she can't live like this any more and really being awful and unreasonable about it. I told her, "You know what you b___ a lot but you are never part of the solution. How about you go get a job and then we can make an appt to go see your Endocrinologist who has been mailing us letters and go figure out what is wrong."

I can relate with the conflict and feeling emotionally exhausted from my exe's behaviors. I suggest learn as much as you can about the disorder and you'll quickly see the benefits and become proficient over time.

A lot of the behavior is driven by the disorder. She has feelings of low self worth , shame and insecurities. She has difficulties trusting herself and others and thinks that people are going to abandon her. She needs a lot of validation.

She's wired differently.

Feelings = facts.

Facts followed by feelings for the non disordered and it helps to validate her feelings first and package your truth differently with tools like S.E.T. ( Support Empathy Truth )

I think my wife displays many if not most of the characteristics of BPD.

We're not professionals and cannot diagnose. When someone alters reality often it's a sign if mental illness. What I can do is look at traits - I like you have an ex partner that displays many traits. Learning about why she behaves the way she does, learning coping tools, communicating in a way that helps both partners, a T and a support group like this gives you practical tools to turn the ship around.

It takes two to tango.

It takes one to stop the cycle of conflict.

but my wife maintains there is nothing wrong with her

A persons personality is difficult to change. BPD us ingrained in one's personality. Think of it this way, the reality you know is very real to you. Dame as her reality, this is very real to her. That said.

Reality us open to debate. Emotions and feelings are real. My ex alters reality often and often it's to feel better because she feels anxiety, stress. I know my reality and what I believe is real and I don't dig my heels in and defend it or JADE ( Justify, Attack, Defend, Explain )

I've had my role in the dysfunction of our marriage and my current thought is to fix my side of the fence first before I can feel good about leaving the relationship.

Bravo  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

You've got the right attitude BestVersionOfMe Nothing changes without change.

First you own it and it looks like you're doing that.

Tools to Reduce Conflict with a person suffering from BPD ( 3 minute instructional video )

COMMUNICATION: S.E.T. technique

Hang in there.

--Mutt

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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2015, 12:30:34 PM »

Kids are ok, they miss me and I miss them.  I keep telling myself that no matter what they will adapt.  I've apologized for accusing her of having an affair and she said she has forgiven me, but I know she no longer thinks she can trust me.  We did a lot of MC and things improved slightly but she couldn't get past the trust thing.  Now that I recorded her attacking me in our own home and have had some recent financial struggles she says "I can't trust you emotionally or financially.  You violated my trust in our own home."  This is her realty.  I just keep saying, "That must be tough not to be able to trust, I understand."  I'm hopeful that after some time she'll agree to go back to some MC.  Right now she is spouting the "I can't trust you with anything" message.  I am coming home and having a sleepover with the kids and a couple friends.  My wife was gonna be gone.  She sent me a text that she can't trust me and that she is now staying at the house and sleeping downstairs and then leaving in the morning.  I texted her back this morning in anticipation of her trust issues and repeated, "That must be awful not to be able to trust.  I completely understand.  I said what the plans were for the sleepover and that I was there to spend time with kids and that if she'd like to join us for dinner that I'd like that very much, but if not then that was ok too.  And then I said I love you. 
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BestVersionOfMe
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2015, 06:52:59 PM »

Kids are ok, they miss me and I miss them.  I keep telling myself that no matter what they will adapt.  I've apologized for accusing her of having an affair and she said she has forgiven me, but I know she no longer thinks she can trust me.  We did a lot of MC and things improved slightly but she couldn't get past the trust thing.  Now that I recorded her attacking me in our own home and have had some recent financial struggles she says "I can't trust you emotionally or financially.  You violated my trust in our own home."  This is her realty.  I just keep saying, "That must be tough not to be able to trust, I understand."  I'm hopeful that after some time she'll agree to go back to some MC.  Right now she is spouting the "I can't trust you with anything" message.  I am coming home and having a sleepover with the kids and a couple friends.  My wife was gonna be gone.  She sent me a text that she can't trust me and that she is now staying at the house and sleeping downstairs and then leaving in the morning.  I texted her back this morning in anticipation of her trust issues and repeated, "That must be awful not to be able to trust.  I completely understand.  I said what the plans were for the sleepover and that I was there to spend time with kids and that if she'd like to join us for dinner that I'd like that very much, but if not then that was ok too.  And then I said I love you. 

Ok so I came home and wife was upstairs getting ready.  She didn't tell me where she was going.  I didn't ask.  I went upstairs and noticed that she had taken our entire box of sex toys, there were many, and must have thrown it away or hid it.  Her laptop is missing so I assume she hid that too because her charger is sitting out.  She wasn't mean in fact she was singing upstairs while getting ready.  She left and I told her to have a good time and kissed her on the cheek.  She "feels" that i'm untrustworthy and that I violated her when I recorded her attacking me.  In reality I just didn't want to go to jail with some bogus DV claim, I have no other agenda.  That story doesn't sit well with her so she instead has taken an extreme stance on trust.  She just keeps texting it to me once or twice a day.  The latest one said, "Your right it is awful not to trust the person your supposed to be close with.  After forgiving and being violated, betrayed, and abused for 4 years on and off.  So yes it's pretty awful someone could play mind tricks like that."  Not sure what the takeaway is other than she is splitting at the moment with me and sees me as all bad.  It is so hard to remove myself from those words that aren't remotely true in reality.  I'm the one person in her life that has always been there for her no matter what.  More than her parents, more than her closest friends, everyone.  Have I said some awful things to her in the heat of the moment before?  Yes.  I won't any more because there won't be two people fighting anymore.  Borderlines come into relationships not trusting people so I can only imagine it will take a long, long time for her to feel that she can trust me again, if at all.  It is disheartening, and I'm sad and heartbroken, but what else do I do?  I have to do my part and not break form out of frustration. 
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BestVersionOfMe
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 07:22:22 PM »

By the way.  I'm currently staying at my parents which was in part to allow me to get some space and remove myself from a stressful environment.  It occurred to me after reading a ton that my being gone from the house is triggering my wife's fear of abandonment.  I realize I have to come first, but to be honest she has been on much better behavior after the big incident and after I left.  If abandonment is her major issue she might be in a perpetual state of anxiety and fear that I'm not coming back.  I was thinking either I move back in but just keep my space by working a lot and doing my own thing, OR continuing to stay at my parents and just continuously remind her that I'm there for her.  Thoughts?
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2015, 10:08:40 PM »

I think it's a good idea that your taking a break. I recall I'd go to my sisters when things were intolerable at home. There was an awful lot of conflict and I didn't understand that I was invalidating and that she needs extra validation. I kept arguing trying to make my point heard. She's mentally ill, she believes her reality and I can choose not to dig my heels in.

How about taking a time out? Go run an errand and as to not trigger her abandonment tell her you'll be back at such and such time. Give her time to cool her jets. If she's emotionally dysregulated, the tools won't work, it's best to leave the situation. If she's raging it's an emotional cleansing targeted at someone close - a loved one.

I still had my triggers when I stayed at my sisters and often would fight through text. The upside is that it was a mental break a chance to charge up the batteries. Take care of you if your at your parents get plenty of rest. It's hard going through this when the climate around the house us very tense. It's going to take time.

When she's saying this thing about trust, she's triggered. A pwBPD don't trust themselves and have difficulties trusting others. There's guilt in FOG or emotional blackmail.

SELF-AWARE: What it means to be in the "FOG"

How do we handle this? She's trying to illicit an emotional response.

Excerpt
Forward and Frazier have greatly helped families by pinpointing fear, obligation or guilt as the important transactional dynamics at play when we feel we are being controlled by others. Understanding this dynamic is the first step in learning how to manage our own feelings of being controlled or the compulsions to do things that are uncomfortable, undesirable, burdensome, or self-sacrificing.

Controlling or being controlled is a transaction. For us, an enabling reaction to the psychological defenses and dysfunctional coping of others - often people who are immature or suffering with addictions, depression, personality disorders, etc.

I think it's important identifying what the behavior is and manage our own feelings. My ex will feel bad and want attention and bait or be mean, I don't reward her with a response and it can be difficult when she's has a certain intensity. Often she feels different later and doesn't recall what she said. If she's being mean I don't try validation tools she wants attention. I validate the valid.

Is the voice recorder a device or something discreet perhaps on a smart phone. I use an app that will record with the lock screen on. I put it in my pocket and when I'm done recording I upload it to the cloud on OneDrive.

So are you texting calling while at your parents? Is she trying to illicit an emotional response?

How do you feel? Stress, anxiety, fatigue?

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BestVersionOfMe
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2015, 10:19:02 PM »

I think it's a good idea that your taking a break. I recall I'd go to my sisters when things were intolerable at home. There was an awful lot of conflict and I didn't understand that I was invalidating and that she needs extra validation. I kept arguing trying to make my point heard. She's mentally ill, she believes her reality and I can choose not to dig my heels in.

How about taking a time out? Go run an errand and as to not trigger her abandonment tell her you'll be back at such a time. Give her time to cool her jets. If she's emotionally dysregulated, the tools won't work, it's best to leave the situation. If she's raging it's an emotional cleansing target at someone close -,a lived one.

I still had my triggers when I stayed at my sisters and often would fight through text. The upside is that it was a mental break a chance to charge up the batteries. Take care of you if your at your parents get plenty of rest. It's hard going through this when the climate around the house us very tense. It's going to take time.

When she's saying this thing about trust, she's triggered. A pwBPD don't trust themselves and have difficulties trusting others. There's guilt in FOG or emotional blackmail.

SELF-AWARE: What it means to be in the "FOG"

How do we handle this? She's trying to illicit an emotional response.

Excerpt
Forward and Frazier have greatly helped families by pinpointing fear, obligation or guilt as the important transactional dynamics at play when we feel we are being controlled by others. Understanding this dynamic is the first step in learning how to manage our own feelings of being controlled or the compulsions to do things that are uncomfortable, undesirable, burdensome, or self-sacrificing.

Controlling or being controlled is a transaction. For us, an enabling reaction to the psychological defenses and dysfunctional coping of others - often people who are immature or suffering with addictions, depression, personality disorders, etc.

I think it's important identifying what the behavior is and manage our own feelings. My ex will feel bad and want attention and bait or be mean, I don't reward ger with a response. If she's being mean I don't try validation tools she wants attention. I validate the valid.

Is the voice recorder a device or so thing discreet perhaps on a smart phone.

So are you texting calling while at your parents? Is she trying to illicit an emotional response?

How do you feel? Stress, anxiety, fatigue?

It was my Iphone and I used it to protect myself because 3 days earlier she made a comment when I followed her to the kitchen, "What are you gonna hit me?"  I was advised by others to keep it near by.  That night I used it.  We mostly fight through text now because I simply don't feel safe having discussions with her.  She has attitude a lot.  I guess the fact that she attacked me and tried to take my iphone away and was removed by the police after having done so is what really happened.  Her version of me "violating her trust" and "being abusive and playing mind games" for all this time is not true, but it is to her.  I felt validation was the right way to go.  When you say you "validate the valid" that means to me that you validate truth?  Since pwBPD don't experience objective truth don't they need validation either way?  To answer your question, "is she trying to elicit and emotional response?"  I don't know, maybe?  When she sent those messages I felt anxiety for sure.  I felt abused by being accused of something that isn't even real.
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2015, 10:21:43 PM »

Does she have disproportionate anger? I'll get to my point.
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BestVersionOfMe
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2015, 10:23:04 PM »

Does she have disproportionate anger? I'll get to my point.

Yes.  She is an angry person with an attitude when we are in conflict. 
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2015, 10:32:41 PM »

Does she have disproportionate anger? I'll get to my point.

Yes.  She is an angry person with an attitude when we are in conflict.  

I wouldn't validate when she's disproportionately angry. I would validate what she's feeling if she feels accused.

Validate her feelings.

"I understand. It's frustrating when people are accused of things. It may feel like an attack on one's character and it's hurtful. Honey, I'm sorry for the speculation"

COMMUNICATION: Validation - tools and techniques
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2015, 10:36:40 PM »

Does she have disproportionate anger? I'll get to my point.

Yes.  She is an angry person with an attitude when we are in conflict.  

I wouldn't validate when she's angry. I would validate she's feeling she was accused.

Validate her feelings.

"I understand. It's frustrating when people are accused of things. It nay feel like an attack on their character and it hurts. Honey, I'm sorry for the speculation"

Ok I think I did it right then.  It was only a text, but sometimes texts are hard to read.  She even agreed to go to anger management classes in the middle of a text fight about 10 days ago or so.  Her parents have spoken to her about her anger issues.  My wife has pushed away my entire family including my Mom who she was so close with and one of my sisters who said she is done with her.  Her parents mentioned moving away closer to their son based on her anger and how she treats them.  She doesn't see it that way of course.  She is fully justified in how she treats me, my entire family, and her family.  All the rest of her friends are on the surface.
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2015, 10:40:10 PM »

Does she have disproportionate anger? I'll get to my point.

Yes.  She is an angry person with an attitude when we are in conflict.  

I wouldn't validate when she's disproportionately angry. I would validate what she's feeling if she feels accused.

Validate her feelings.

"I understand. It's frustrating when people are accused of things. It may feel like an attack on one's character and it's hurtful. Honey, I'm sorry for the speculation"

COMMUNICATION: Validation - tools and techniques

By the way I never actually was able to fully tell her the real reasons I recorded her that night.  There was one attempt and she had attitude and it ended with me saying, "I had to do what I had to do."  She is hung up on that line and although I know I should feel the need to explain myself, perhaps in this case she should know the real reason?  It could completely blow up however so maybe leaving it be might be a better move and just keep trying to validate her and set boundaries and walk away when need be?
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2015, 11:00:10 PM »

Does she have disproportionate anger? I'll get to my point.

Yes.  She is an angry person with an attitude when we are in conflict.  

I wouldn't validate when she's disproportionately angry. I would validate what she's feeling if she feels accused.

Validate her feelings.

"I understand. It's frustrating when people are accused of things. It may feel like an attack on one's character and it's hurtful. Honey, I'm sorry for the speculation"

COMMUNICATION: Validation - tools and techniques

By the way I never actually was able to fully tell her the real reasons I recorded her that night.  There was one attempt and she had attitude and it ended with me saying, "I had to do what I had to do."  She is hung up on that line and although I know I should feel the need to explain myself, perhaps in this case she should know the real reason?  It could completely blow up however so maybe leaving it be might be a better move and just keep trying to validate her and set boundaries and walk away when need be?

I didn't think that my ex was disordered, I could have Googled some of the behaviors and I may of found some sort of results on BPD. I thought she w issues with anger and I was enmeshed in her stuff. I didn't know where she ended and I began. I kept blaming her to get fixed, I had my own personal stuff too. That said.

What is BPD?

It's an emotional based disorder, she has problems regulating feelings and feels two thousand fold, she is sensitive to rejection, has feelings of low self worth, guilt and shame, fears everyone is going to abandon her. She's triggered if she's displaying disproportionate anger, it may be a perceived rejection or invalidation. I was an invalidating H and I'm embarrassed of how I spoke on that same token she knew how to push buttons. Often a pwBPD will project negative feelings on their partner and it sounds like things are twisted around. You may feel invalidated, hurt or frustrated that you're getting blamed for her actions.

I wouldn't suggest she go to anger management, she may need to get checked by an MD, therapy for BPD. Usually there's an underlying clinical depression or generalized anxiety. If you think about it, this would be hard to cope with? Much of the behaviors are driven by the disorder. A goal can be to de-personalize or become indifferent. What my ex displays to me now is she has low self esteem, low self worth, may be seeking attention. It's not personal to me. So, I understand she's wired differently, I don't JADE ( Justify Attack Defend or Explain ) because I know my truth. If she's trying to bait or project and I know she's distorting, I don't attack or defend because it leaves little room for conflict - a small target. A lose-lose situation becomes win-win it doesn't spin out of control.

Understanding JADE

Often I validate or I use SET and it helps to get my T across, package it differently. My ex says I'm being nice because I validate and show empathy. Whereas before, I wanted my voice to be heard if I need to vent or I'm frustrated I use the boards. I also spoke to a P then a T in conjunction with an online support group. This stuff takes time. The first step is always the hardest. Once you change everything changes.
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2015, 11:18:07 PM »

Does she have disproportionate anger? I'll get to my point.

Yes.  She is an angry person with an attitude when we are in conflict.  

I wouldn't validate when she's disproportionately angry. I would validate what she's feeling if she feels accused.

Validate her feelings.

"I understand. It's frustrating when people are accused of things. It may feel like an attack on one's character and it's hurtful. Honey, I'm sorry for the speculation"

COMMUNICATION: Validation - tools and techniques

By the way I never actually was able to fully tell her the real reasons I recorded her that night.  There was one attempt and she had attitude and it ended with me saying, "I had to do what I had to do."  She is hung up on that line and although I know I should feel the need to explain myself, perhaps in this case she should know the real reason?  It could completely blow up however so maybe leaving it be might be a better move and just keep trying to validate her and set boundaries and walk away when need be?

I didn't think that my ex was disordered, I coule have Googled some of the behaviors and I may of found some sort if results in BPD. I thought she has issues with Anger and I was enmeshed in her stuff. I didn't know where she ended and I began. I kep blaming her to get fixed, I had my own personal stuff too. That said.

What is BPD?

It's an emotional based disorder, she has problems regulating feelings and feels two thousand fold, she is sensitive to rejection, has feelings of low self worth, guilt and shame, fears everyone is going to abandon her. She's triggered if she's displaying disproportionate anger, it may be a perceived rejection or invalidation. I was an invalidating H and I'm embarrassed of how I spoke on that same token she knew how to push buttons. Often a pwBPD will project negative feelings on their partner and it sounds like things are twisted around. You may feel invalidated, hurt or frustrated that you're getting blamed for her actions.

I wouldn't suggest she go to anger management, she may need to get checked by an MD, therapy for BPD. Usually there's an underlying clinical depression or generalized anxiety. If you think about it, this would be hard to cope with? Much of the behaviors are driven by the disorder. A goal can be to de-personalize or become indifferent. What my ex displays to me now is she has low self esteem, low self worth, may be seeking attention. It's not personal to me. So, I understand she's wired differently, I don't JADE ( Justify Attack Defend or Explain ) because I know my truth. If she's trying to bait or project and I know she's distorting, I don't attack or defend because it leaves little room for conflict ) a small target.

Understanding JADE

Often I validate or I use SET and it helps to get my T across, package it differently. My ex says I'm being nice because I validate and show empathy. Whereas before, I wanted my voice to be heard if I need to vent or I'm frustrated I use the boards. I also spoke to a P then a T in conjunction with an online support group. This stuff takes time. The first step is always the hardest. Once you change everything changes.

Guilty as charged, major invalidator.  I know this now and I've taken steps to end that behavior now that I know what the hell is going on.  It has been a learning cycle for me.  3 1/2 years ago I was in a bad place of neediness, and thought she was having an affair.  That slowly got better over time and I got a bit more secure with the relationship once I knew this wasn't the case.  The problems were still there though.  The anger, the gaslighting, the projection.  All of it was driving me mad.  I read the book No More Mr Nice Guy to learn about my issues with the "nice guy syndrome".  I did coaching.  I did workbooks, all with this knowledge of not knowing my self.  I've known for quite some time I gave up myself to focus on her and made her my "emotional center".  The more I did the less respect she had for me and less attraction she had for me.  Then about six months ago I began to dabble with setting boundaries, but they weren't consistent which is why it never stuck.  For some reason, despite knowing this about myself, I've lived in fear and never managed to make any real changes.  The night she raged and attacked me must have been the "rock bottom" moment for me.  I started to truly see not being with her, and having a life without her and finding love and respect.  When I went to the Shrink4Men.com forum they were all hard core and angry and had the mentality of "get the hell out!"  BdFamily.com has a more open approach.  You can "choose your own adventure."  Where I'm at is this.  I'm going to try and keep the family together and work hard on my own issues of codependency.  One of two things will happen.  Either my fairly high functioning BPD wife will begin to feel more soothed and we can have a manageable if not caring relationship OR I'll wake up and realize that I can pursue more healthy relationships and leave.  I prefer the former as I love this woman and I'd love to keep the family together but I'm not married to that idea only.     
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2015, 11:33:45 PM »

I lost my mariage because I'm co-dependent, trying to control to feel better and I was hard headed.

Your talking about floating boundaries, you don't have to have high fences, have firm ones. If she does X, I respond with Y.

I needed the hard lessons. What my wife taught me is she was angry for a reason, I wasn't listening to the tone or her evoking emotions. They were tells. I had to reason my logic until she understood and well I lost. BPD keeps teaching me new things.

I was invalidating and it was easier for me to blame and point fingers. Yes, these relationships are challenging and it's a learning curve. Changing how we communicate to ease the feelings of others goes a long way.

I didn't own it in the marriage. I owned it after I was abandoned because I was a trigger. I co-parent, we have kids. I stopped the cycle of conflict after and it was much more difficult. Everyone suffers in conflict. Let go or be dragged.

It takes two to tango. One to stop. As you say "choose your own path" if you do the work, put your head down, keep patience you'll see a pay-off. You may want to consider treatment for your spouse. If she's undiagnosed and not in treatment or not wanting to. It's difficult. Telling someone they have a mental illness if they're not aware can be taken with offense. This is her reality - real to her. Is she self-aware?  Is she responsive to getting help? It may be something to put on the backburner and find an approach, like having a third person tell her, a T or an MD so it doesn't fall on you.

Ask around, see what strategies members used and see what works. I'd keep it under your hat. You may make the symptoms worse if you tell her.

As you say, you have options. You can roll your sleeves up try, if you fail, you walk away with new skills you can use in everyday circumstances right? Win-win.
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« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2015, 09:00:49 AM »

I lost my mariage because I'm co-dependent, trying to control to feel better and I was hard headed.

Your talking about floating boundaries, you don't have to have high fences, have firm ones. If she does X, I respond with Y.

I needed the hard lessons. What my wife taught me is she was angry for a reason, I wasn't listening to the tone or her evoking emotions. They were tells. I had to reason my logic until she understood and well I lost. BPD keeps teaching me new things.

I was invalidating and it was easier for me to blame and point fingers. Yes, these relationships are challenging and it's a learning curve. Changing how we communicate to ease the feelings of others goes a long way.

I didn't own it in the marriage. I owned it after I was abandoned because I was a trigger. I co-parent, we have kids. I stopped the cycle of conflict after and it was much more difficult. Everyone suffers in conflict. Let go or be dragged.

It takes two to tango. One to stop. As you say "choose your own path" if you do the work, put your head down, keep patience you'll see a pay-off. You may want to consider treatment for your spouse. If she's undiagnosed and not in treatment or not wanting to. It's difficult. Telling someone they have a mental illness if they're not aware can be taken with offense. This is her reality - real to her. Is she self-aware?  Is she responsive to getting help? It may be something to put on the backburner and find an approach, like having a third person tell her, a T or an MD so it doesn't fall on you.

Ask around, see what strategies members used and see what works. I'd keep it under your hat. You may make the symptoms worse if you tell her.

As you say, you have options. You can roll your sleeves up try, if you fail, you walk away with new skills you can use in everyday circumstances right? Win-win.

Every forum or therapist I've been with my main focus has been her and her role in the marriage.  I mean there were fleeting moments of acceptance by me, but then within a day I'd go right back to having contempt for her and blaming her.  I NEVER made the hard changes and that is something I no longer can kick down the road.  You bet I try to control my wife.  I do it covertly and it is not ok regardless of her having BPD or not.  I have to eliminate my codependent perspective either way so I mine as well take a stand now when I might have one more shot of saving the marriage and keeping the family together.  I've never mentioned BPD with my spouse.  As of this moment the only diagnoses with any teeth is Anxiety from her Endocrinologist.  She told me she had a doctor's appt Monday but didn't tell me what for.  She comes from a very secretive family, they like to hide everything from everyone.  My wife thinks that if she has something really wrong with her that I'll judge and blame her.  In part she is right.  Not this time though, I'm going focus on S.E.T. and learn how to stop being codependent and changing the belief patterns in myself.  I think part of the reason I've lived in fear to set boundaries is because of how much self-limiting beliefs about myself.  I'm taking steps to change that with my life coach right now.  We are working on establishing my passions, daily affirmations, and daily gratitude to turn around this "loss of self" and find me again. 
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« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2015, 11:27:08 AM »

I realize that all BPD's are different.  My wife has never been needy, always been independent and secretive, her whole family is secretive.  I guess I say this because my issues never have to do with her needing much from me, aside from to be a provider and father.  Other than that she kind of does her own thing and always has.  I have read about many BPD's that are very needy but not mine.  She is distant and cold and withdrawn.  She withholds affection, love, and sex which I read is just another form of abuse, the worst kind.  It is odd to me to think that she is worried of abandonment at her core because she most certainly acts as if she isn't interested in me or needs me.  This could just be her self defense mechanisms in place, but I must say she seems to get her needs met elsewhere with her friends on a superficial level.  She almost never shows weakness and even frequently states, "I'll never be a weak person again."  I assume that "weak" to her equals "not in control?" 
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2015, 12:18:12 PM »

I'm just doing some self-sensing and posting it here to help me just feel things.  I'm sitting here at our house, wife not here, all kids with me and they are playing.  I've been feeling lazy and depressed all morning.  I'm trying to sense why and I think it is the distance from my wife.  She hasn't communicated with me and she is gone and I don't even know where, probably her cousins.  I keep reading my daily passions, affirmations, and gratitude but I have yet to pull out of it.  I think it is a two part thing.  Part being in the house where I've experienced so much drama and stress and part because she isn't here and I'm allowing that to bother me.  I haven't reached out to her nor will I.  I'm telling myself "you are just having feelings of loss and  that is ok, it'll pass."  After this post I'm gonna go put my shoes on and take the kids to the park or something because this is not living life like I should be.
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2015, 03:22:52 PM »

I think it helps to talk.

Your strategies are sound. I'm sorry to hear you feel lonely and depressed. It's hard.

Share with members that can help because they're going through similar feelings and situations and they'll guide you to improve your quality of life

Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner
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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2015, 09:30:42 AM »

Ok so stayed at house last night.  Not much talk which was fine.  I was exhausted from the night before but before I went up to bed she said, "We're gonna have to talk about who gets to sleep in the bed."  I said, "I understand.  I think we both have a right to sleep in our comfortable bed."  She elected to sleep downstairs.  This morning she sent me a text from upstairs saying, "We are gonna have to talk about living arrangements.  I'm not ready for you to come back and pretend everything is fine.  All my stresses went away for two week."  I haven't responded.  I need time to unpack it and plan a response so I'd like some advice.  My initial thoughts are she is trying to control me and flip things around.  I'm not "pretending everything is all fine."  Perhaps she doesn't remember what happened over that 5 day period?  She chased me in her car.  She told me "I hate you more than any person I've ever hated in my life and I can't stand the sound of your voice."  You know the rest. 
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2015, 11:09:38 AM »

One other thought I had.  My wife is withdrawn like a snail in a shell.  She is still somewhat demanding, but is on her version of "best behavior" because I think deep down she knows she did and said some awful things.  The withdrawn part might be considered abuse based on withholding love, affection, communication, etc.  The hard part is that this is that she isn't needy, or paranoid, and seems much more like someone who is just incredibly hurt.  I know one size doesn't fit all but a lot of the stories I read on here aren't anything like mine at this moment.  It could be she is just doing this until I cave and show weakness, not really sure, but I couldn't help but notice that the withdrawing approach isn't as similar to most of these stories.  If abandonment is her core fear I would think me being back in the house would provide some level of stability rather than it be kind of a trigger, you know?
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2015, 04:09:30 PM »

Ok and one more piece of advice I need.  My wife sends me a random text saying "I'm changing my emergency contact information with my medical records just to FYI in case of emergency you wouldn't be a contact."  I feel a few things with this:

1. punished

2. angry

I'm also wondering if it is paranoia on her part or just petty bull___.  I don't want her to have power and I don't want to validate anything since she didn't express her feelings, she was just passing on information.  I'm thinking I should just ignore all together.
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2015, 06:31:18 PM »

Ok so I replo
Ok so stayed at house last night.  Not much talk which was fine.  I was exhausted from the night before but before I went up to bed she said, "We're gonna have to talk about who gets to sleep in the bed."  I said, "I understand.  I think we both have a right to sleep in our comfortable bed."  She elected to sleep downstairs.  This morning she sent me a text from upstairs saying, "We are gonna have to talk about living arrangements.  I'm not ready for you to come back and pretend everything is fine.  All my stresses went away for two week."  I haven't responded.  I need time to unpack it and plan a response so I'd like some advice.  My initial thoughts are she is trying to control me and flip things around.  I'm not "pretending everything is all fine."  Perhaps she doesn't remember what happened over that 5 day period?  She chased me in her car.  She told me "I hate you more than any person I've ever hated in my life and I can't stand the sound of your voice."  You know the rest.  

Ok so I just responded to my wife about her request to speak about living arrangements.  I said, "I am definitely concerned at how you feel about the living situation.  It must be hard to feel stressed around me.  I'm working hard to make changes I need to make for me to be the best possible version of myself including growing my company.  I love you very much and I hope you are making changes to be the best version of yourself as well.  I don't feel safe yet having discussions in person but eventually would I'd like to get to that point.  I'm always here if you really need me.  xoxo see you tonight."

Her response, "And I'm not entertaining any idea of working in our marriage without financial changes among the first of many.  I am thinking of myself and my future.  And I prefer you move to your parents so we can both have space."

My response, "I totally understand your concerns and I can appreciate your point of view.  I'm thinking of myself and my future as well which is why I'm working very hard in making changes for me.  I hope you are making changes for you as well.  What is best for me and the kids is to have me in the house to love and care for them and that is what I'm doing."

Her response, "Well I don't have the same opinion.  Ok I'm on the way to the store." 

Seems to me that she backed right down when I clearly stated what was best for me and the kids.  I needed to set a big boundary which is that I'm not moving out of the house.  I did my best S.E.T. with the limited experience I have.  She didn't offer to make any changes, to be a part of bringing in income, nor acknowledge anything I said at all.  I'm feeling angry yet a little victorious.  Each time I set boundaries she pushes back a little bit but ultimately backs down.  It is classic BPD behavior which is blame, blame, blame.  I think she feels entitled to live in this house, not work, be rude, and not make any changes at all.  That simply doesn't work for me.  I'd love for you to grade my S.E.T. homework and provide any constructive feedback.  Thanks so much!

BVOM
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2015, 12:22:57 PM »

Ok so I replo
Ok so stayed at house last night.  Not much talk which was fine.  I was exhausted from the night before but before I went up to bed she said, "We're gonna have to talk about who gets to sleep in the bed."  I said, "I understand.  I think we both have a right to sleep in our comfortable bed."  She elected to sleep downstairs.  This morning she sent me a text from upstairs saying, "We are gonna have to talk about living arrangements.  I'm not ready for you to come back and pretend everything is fine.  All my stresses went away for two week."  I haven't responded.  I need time to unpack it and plan a response so I'd like some advice.  My initial thoughts are she is trying to control me and flip things around.  I'm not "pretending everything is all fine."  Perhaps she doesn't remember what happened over that 5 day period?  She chased me in her car.  She told me "I hate you more than any person I've ever hated in my life and I can't stand the sound of your voice."  You know the rest.  

Ok so I just responded to my wife about her request to speak about living arrangements.  I said, "I am definitely concerned at how you feel about the living situation.  It must be hard to feel stressed around me.  I'm working hard to make changes I need to make for me to be the best possible version of myself including growing my company.  I love you very much and I hope you are making changes to be the best version of yourself as well.  I don't feel safe yet having discussions in person but eventually would I'd like to get to that point.  I'm always here if you really need me.  xoxo see you tonight."

Her response, "And I'm not entertaining any idea of working in our marriage without financial changes among the first of many.  I am thinking of myself and my future.  And I prefer you move to your parents so we can both have space."

My response, "I totally understand your concerns and I can appreciate your point of view.  I'm thinking of myself and my future as well which is why I'm working very hard in making changes for me.  I hope you are making changes for you as well.  What is best for me and the kids is to have me in the house to love and care for them and that is what I'm doing."

Her response, "Well I don't have the same opinion.  Ok I'm on the way to the store." 

Seems to me that she backed right down when I clearly stated what was best for me and the kids.  I needed to set a big boundary which is that I'm not moving out of the house.  I did my best S.E.T. with the limited experience I have.  She didn't offer to make any changes, to be a part of bringing in income, nor acknowledge anything I said at all.  I'm feeling angry yet a little victorious.  Each time I set boundaries she pushes back a little bit but ultimately backs down.  It is classic BPD behavior which is blame, blame, blame.  I think she feels entitled to live in this house, not work, be rude, and not make any changes at all.  That simply doesn't work for me.  I'd love for you to grade my S.E.T. homework and provide any constructive feedback.  Thanks so much!

BVOM

Still waiting for some feedback from anyone with my S.E.T. communication with my wife above.  I appreciate the help.
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« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2015, 02:14:17 PM »

Hi BVOM,

Ok so I just responded to my wife about her request to speak about living arrangements.  I said, "I am definitely concerned at how you feel about the living situation.  It must be hard to feel stressed around me.  I'm working hard to make changes I need to make for me to be the best possible version of myself including growing my company.  I love you very much and I hope you are making changes to be the best version of yourself as well.  I don't feel safe yet having discussions in person but eventually would I'd like to get to that point.  I'm always here if you really need me.  xoxo see you tonight."

I think it's a good start. It takes time and practice to get proficient at it.

When I talk to my ex I keep in mind feelings = facts and I validate her feelings first then I'll say my truth.

I understand BPD behaviors are difficult and it takes time to dig ourselves out of a hole.

A pwBPD are super sensitive to rejection and it helps to ask ourselves how would it make us feel if someone said they don't feel safe around you if I'm extra sensitive to rejection? I think it's a good idea to keep this out of conversations. If you have a voice recorder, feel safe that it's recording. If you truly don't feel safe. Safety first!

You want to make changes and she not may feel the same way about making changes for herself? What I keep in mind is actions speaks louder than words. When I owned my part, it was a personal experience and I didn't vocalize it, it was a journey I simply buckled down having been tired of undesirable results for many years. I thought, enough's enough. I simply did it and didn't tell anyone. Then real change happened.

When you change, everything changes.

You show sympathy and that you care about turning the ship around. You may feel frustrated and disappointment she's not showing much interest, I'm sorry.

I think the core message is the living situation and perhaps you don't want her to feel like abandonment? You may want to shorten it to something like this, keep in mind start with support, validate feelings and finally package your truth.

"I'm sorry. It can be frustrating and extra stressful when living arrangements aren't clear. I'd like you to know I'm available if you're ready honey. Can I get you something while I'm out?"

Leave the ball in her court. Otherwise it may sound like you're trying to coerce her. It's not going to be an attractive proposition.

So keep in mind:

Feelings equals facts. Show support and validate feelings first. Package your truth at the end. Give her options.
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« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2015, 02:33:56 PM »

Hi BVOM,

Ok so I just responded to my wife about her request to speak about living arrangements.  I said, "I am definitely concerned at how you feel about the living situation.  It must be hard to feel stressed around me.  I'm working hard to make changes I need to make for me to be the best possible version of myself including growing my company.  I love you very much and I hope you are making changes to be the best version of yourself as well.  I don't feel safe yet having discussions in person but eventually would I'd like to get to that point.  I'm always here if you really need me.  xoxo see you tonight."

I think it's a good start. It takes time and practice to get proficient at it.

When I talk to my ex I keep in mind feelings = facts and I validate her feelings first then I'll say my truth.

I understand BPD behaviors are difficult and it takes time to dig ourselves out of a hole.

A pwBPD are super sensitive to rejection and it helps to ask ourselves how would it make us feel if someone said they don't feel safe around you if I'm extra sensitive to rejection? I think it's a good idea to keep this out of conversations. If you have a voice recorder, feel safe that it's recording. If you truly don't feel safe. Safety first!

You want to make changes and she not may feel the same way about making changes for herself? What I keep in mind is actions speaks louder than words. When I owned my part, it was a personal experience and I didn't vocalize it, it was a journey I simply buckled down having been tired of undesirable results for many years. I thought, enough's enough. I simply did it and didn't tell anyone. Then real change happened.

When you change, everything changes.

You show sympathy and that you care about turning the ship around. You may feel frustrated and disappointment she's not showing much interest, I'm sorry.

I think the core message is the living situation and perhaps you don't want her to feel like abandonment? You may want to shorten it to something like this, keep in mind start with support, validate feelings and finally package your truth.

"I'm sorry. It can be frustrating and extra stressful when living arrangements aren't clear. I'd like you to know I'm available if you're ready honey. Can I get you something while I'm out?"

Leave the ball in her court. Otherwise it may sound like you're trying to coerce her. It's not going to be an attractive proposition.

So keep in mind:

Feelings equals facts. Show support and validate feelings first. Package your truth at the end. Give her options.

So the last part is meant to diffuse her but redirecting the S.E.T. by asking if I can get her something while I'm out?  I also read in my book today that redirecting conversations to "what's best for the kids" is always a good move since we share common ground on that topic.
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Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10395



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« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2015, 02:45:30 PM »

So the last part is meant to diffuse her but redirecting the S.E.T. by asking if I can get her something while I'm out?  I also read in my book today that redirecting conversations to "what's best for the kids" is always a good move since we share common ground on that topic.

If you're going out show her you care. You're thinking about her. You can also say I'll be back in half an hour as to not trigger abandonment.

I agree with the kids. I also think timing is important. So, if my ex is emotionally dysregulated, not a good time to ask for anything.

Her response, "Well I don't have the same opinion.  Ok I'm on the way to the store."

She's indifferent?

How was she feeling when she said this?

She may of felt invalidated, rejected because you said she's not a safe person to be around? Being hyper-sensitive to rejection.

Perhaps she's trying to make you feel hurt?

If I triggered my ex's sensitivity to rejection, I'd give her a day then see how she feels and re-direct again?

Is it time sensitive that she moves?
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"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
BestVersionOfMe
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 268


« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2015, 02:50:36 PM »

So the last part is meant to diffuse her but redirecting the S.E.T. by asking if I can get her something while I'm out?  I also read in my book today that redirecting conversations to "what's best for the kids" is always a good move since we share common ground on that topic.

If you're going out show her you care. You're thinking about her. You can also say I'll be back in half an hour as to not trigger abandonment.

I agree with the kids. I also think timing is important. So, if my ex is emotionally dysregulated, not a good time to ask for anything.

Her response, "Well I don't have the same opinion.  Ok I'm on the way to the store."

She's indifferent?

How was she feeling when she said this?

She may of felt invalidated, rejected because you said she's not a safe person to be around? Perhaps she's trying to make you feel hurt?

Crap you are right.  I was so caught up in winning the "who feels more unsafe" I went ahead and told her she is a scary monster.  I need to watch that and thanks for bringing it up.  She has even said that, "you act like I'm some monster."  I need to do a better job and feedback here is a good start.
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Mutt
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10395



WWW
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2015, 02:59:03 PM »

So the last part is meant to diffuse her but redirecting the S.E.T. by asking if I can get her something while I'm out?  I also read in my book today that redirecting conversations to "what's best for the kids" is always a good move since we share common ground on that topic.

If you're going out show her you care. You're thinking about her. You can also say I'll be back in half an hour as to not trigger abandonment.

I agree with the kids. I also think timing is important. So, if my ex is emotionally dysregulated, not a good time to ask for anything.

Her response, "Well I don't have the same opinion.  Ok I'm on the way to the store."

She's indifferent?

How was she feeling when she said this?

She may of felt invalidated, rejected because you said she's not a safe person to be around? Perhaps she's trying to make you feel hurt?

Crap you are right.  I was so caught up in winning the "who feels more unsafe" I went ahead and told her she is a scary monster.  I need to watch that and thanks for bringing it up.  She has even said that, "you act like I'm some monster."  I need to do a better job and feedback here is a good start.

Your wife is a person. The disorder does not quantify her. She's a person that's simply wired differently.

I've flipped things around by talking to people, co-workers, my kids differently. I talk to my ex and she's nice to me because I communicate differently. I validate whereas I invalidated and tried to win in conversations.

A 180.

It's not to say she's not emotionally immature at times and she doesn't get mean and say things to hurt me. I understand that much of the behavior is driven by the disorder.

I de-personalize the behaviors and I've worked on my triggers and don't argue back if she's trying to bait.

Feelings are quicksilver to a pwBPD. I understand that what she may feel in that moment may be different in hours, a day. I re-direct later and try to catch her in a better mood and communication works for both sides.

She's extra sensitive to rejections and her feelings are two-thousand fold. Validate her feelings.

Win-win.
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"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
BestVersionOfMe
****
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 268


« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2015, 11:53:01 AM »

So the last part is meant to diffuse her but redirecting the S.E.T. by asking if I can get her something while I'm out?  I also read in my book today that redirecting conversations to "what's best for the kids" is always a good move since we share common ground on that topic.

If you're going out show her you care. You're thinking about her. You can also say I'll be back in half an hour as to not trigger abandonment.

I agree with the kids. I also think timing is important. So, if my ex is emotionally dysregulated, not a good time to ask for anything.

Her response, "Well I don't have the same opinion.  Ok I'm on the way to the store."

She's indifferent?

How was she feeling when she said this?

She may of felt invalidated, rejected because you said she's not a safe person to be around? Perhaps she's trying to make you feel hurt?

Crap you are right.  I was so caught up in winning the "who feels more unsafe" I went ahead and told her she is a scary monster.  I need to watch that and thanks for bringing it up.  She has even said that, "you act like I'm some monster."  I need to do a better job and feedback here is a good start.

Your wife is a person. The disorder does not quantify her. She's a person that's simply wired differently.

I've flipped things around by talking to people, co-workers, my kids differently. I talk to my ex and she's nice to me because I communicate differently. I validate whereas I invalidated and tried to win in conversations.

A 180.

It's not to say she's not emotionally immature at times and she doesn't get mean and say things to hurt me. I understand that much of the behavior is driven by the disorder.

I de-personalize the behaviors and I've worked on my triggers and don't argue back if she's trying to bait.

Feelings are quicksilver to a pwBPD. I understand that what she may feel in that moment may be different in hours, a day. I re-direct later and try to catch her in a better mood and communication works for both sides.

She's extra sensitive to rejections and her feelings are two-thousand fold. Validate her feelings.

Win-win.

Yep that is the goal.  Validate, validate, validate.  If I don't she feels stupid and unloved.  The latest interaction was amazing:

Me, "I'm going out tonight with Jason for an hour or two.  Would you perhaps like to get out tomorrow night?"

Her, "Your welcome to do what you please and I'm going to do as I please.  I'm not going to ask for permission from you to live my life.  You are the one that came back to the house."

I didn't bother responding because it is true psychobabble.  I wasn't being respectful is all and she flipped the entire thing on it's head to inflict pain and "transfer" who own hate on me.  She is setting a false boundary by saying "I'm going to do what I please" which is really trying to say "You don't control me."  Then she flipped it around some more and told me she's not going to ask me for permission to live life.  Another false boundary, because that isn't something I require.  Then she made a third jump about nothing related about me moving back into the house to shift blame.  She needs/wants to shift blame because deep down she knows that she is trying to control me but is losing.  This was nothing more than grasping at straws because the control she had is gone.  All of that equated to a no-response from me.  These type of texts would send me spiraling in the past. 
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