possible reconnect happening what do i do

[MrBlueEyes]

So my undiagnosed exBPDgf seems to want to reconnect but I am not sure and want the opinions of others.

So after a little over a month of NC, to which i was patiently waitng for the return of some of my stuff, I contacted her again and told her it was time, she put up some resistance, but she agreed to meet me at work and exchange items we had of each others.

She was pleasant and made a comment after she pulled one box out of her trunk and motioned for me to grab it that "I should carry it since im a man and im strong" which I saw as an attempt to make me feel strong and capable. Mind you all she needed to do to put it in my car was turn the other way and take two steps as I was parked in the spot next to her. Once she handed me the box I actually had to make my way around her to put it in my car. LAter after going through the boxes I realized she put things of hers in there and I now have more items of hers then I had previously, including a coat of hers thats clearly a females coat.

She was sick and had "forgotten" a few of my things so I emailed her the next day asking for my stuff and if she was feeling better to whcih I get no response.

when i see her in public which is usually at work she seems pleasant now mostly. When I email her about something she ignores it or she will ask me why i insist on talking to her and why i dont leave her alone and then will proceed to ask me a quesstion or make a statement that warrants a response. I believe she is baiting me to tell her that i want her again.

I asked her via email if she wanted to talk last week on sunday as i get off work at the same time as her. she did not respond but then the next day I work and she doesnt but she came into work at the time i got off. we work in a resturant bar enviroment so she can go there without being obvious its to be around me.

Then I hear now that she is talking to my friends, some of them are in a way her friends but she hasnt talked to them since we split, others are my firneds and she really only knows them from being with me. The last time around she did a similar thing.


SO why I am confused is becasue when I ask her to hang out via email I get no response or the other time I asked her if we could talk which was when we were supposed to exchange stuff at work she made the comment she really didnt want to sit down with me and talk. To which I never asked her that I only asked if we could talk during our exchange of items.

I believe her saying this thing about sitting down and talking is becasue thats what she wants to do. I never said or implied i wanted to go somewhere and have a sit down long conversation, and that idea same from somewhere and it wasnt me. Also I am wondering about her use or the word "really". When I was split black initially she would say dont talk to me, plain and simple. Now she will say I dont really want to talk to you. OR she will word it in the form of a question like Why do you insist on talking to me?

I am wondering if I am interested what is my play here? DO i tell her how I feel? Do I wait for more dignals? I feel that shes putting herself in front of me and around me and my friends for a reason and they are all saying she is being nice to them.

and then she is asking why I dont leave her alone instead of raging at me to leave her alone.

And she is saying I dont really want to talk instead of I dont want to talk.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

What do you want in the long run?

It sounds like you are stuck in wanting to please her still?

She probably does not know what she wants in the long run, probably cant think that far ahead.

Right now she wants to be in control. What she does with that control if she gets it she will worry about it later. Right now she wants the batten while you play the tunes.

Dont look for obvious logic in the mind of the disordered

[Notwendy]

What do you want to do about this- are you interested in a r/s with her regardless of what she wants?

How badly do you want your stuff?

I suspect she's holding on to your stuff, because once you get it, you may be gone from her life for good ( abandonment ) so as long as she has something you want, and you are willing to get in touch with her about, she knows you are not going to disappear. Also, if you have something of hers, then she can contact you about it.


My mom has BPD and is very particular about posessions. She has items of mine, that she knows I want- not of great value but of sentiment. Over the years, she reminds me that she has these things, and acts as if she will give them to me. Sometimes she'll threaten or bribe me with them" If you want your______ you'd better come over".

While this seems mean- to hoard these things, the motive is transparent. She believes that as long as she has something I want, I won't abandon her. It makes sense now that she is elderly, but even if she gave me the things, I think it would be cruel to abandon her- I would regret it, and she is my mom, not a gf or bf. Even when I was a child, she'd use my things to control and punish me. " I have your favorite toy and you won't get it back until... ."

I don't choose to walk away from my mother, but to be "free" of her power over me with my posessions, I had to give up any attachment to them.

You can choose to not be with your gf- that is less complicated and probably easier than leaving a parent, but to do so, you will have to let go of your posessions, or, if they are of great value to you, hire a lawyer to deal with it. As long as you want your things, and she has them, you two will be in negotiations. Or, if you choose to be with her, you may need to let go of your things, because it is possible that she won't return them.

[waverider]

There maybe another issue at play here and that is object consistency. pwBPD sometimes suffer from this, meaning if they have no physical reminder of someone or something, all connection goes, triggering abandonment. Hence it is common to hang on to reminders/possessions. They also believe you will be the same so they want you (contrive) to have reminders of them.

Commonly shows in hanging onto items of clothing

[OnceConfused]

MrBlueEyes:

First and foremost, you have to ask yourself the one and only question:

Why do I want to go back to something  that I had left or run away?

1. YOur going back will not make your life or the r/s a better one. The laws of physics and nature dictate that the same action will produce the same result or reaction, every time. If she has not changed or you have not changed then your coming back will produce exactly the same result as before. Is that what you want? 

2. Like jet fighter pilots going through a debriefing after every single sortie or training, you have to debrief yourself on (a) why the previous time did not work? (b) what do I want or desire in a partner in terms of characteristics -- ability to laugh, to forgive, to accept who you are, integrity, morality, frugality, kindness, beauty ... .and how this particular partner matches those characteristics ?

Who cares about the stuffs that you left behind? More is less and Less is more.

[MrBlueEyes]

Thank you all for your replies. Althought all were helpful only some of them though reallyfocused on what I was trying to ask.

I have read many many things about BPD and some of them seem to say different things happen at different times. For instance a caring message when split black can call forth rage but when white can be soothing etc.

So I was trying to give a rundown of differences in her speech patterns and to show how she is acting differently and seems to be putting herself around me and was wondering a few things.

If I wanted to be with her still what should I do?

Continue to basically ignore her and wait for her to make the first solid move?

Tell her how I feel about her? If this then should there be any mushy things said?


Some things I have read written by BPDs state that a BPD will not make the first move and if you go white and dont pursue they forget you forever.

Other things I have read by nons seem to state that someone with BPD is more likely to try increassingly harder to get your attention, and that being stonger and making then sweat is better,, and that any attempt before they feel they have lost control of you is in vain.

The only differences between past and present seem to be that now when I asked her out she wont respond, she wont say no either though. In the past she would not turn me down after turing me white.

And on my end the only difference that I can discern is I havent "Went for it" The last go around when I realized I wasnt black I went out to eat with her once and then the following weekend at work she came around me and I just grabbed her litterally and well the rest is history.


So I believe that this seems to be some testing here on her part to see my interest and were her power lies. My question is what is my play if I indeed want to be with her?

[Notwendy]

Discussing "plays" in a r/s with someone with BPD would be like strategizing a play for a football game, getting out on the field with a ball that can appear and disappear at any time and goals that move constantly.

To me, understanding BPD was a result of my search for answers to problems in my r/s. I use what I know to make the r/s better so that when we have communucation issues, dysregulations- I don't take them as personally, don't JADE like I used to which made them worse.

However, my goal is not to do things contingent on what he does, but to be authentic and not co-dependent. The tools for dealing with a pwBPD are for me, to help me be authentic in the face of a dysregulation.

So, should you choose to play ball on a field with moving goals, you need to be the only player on the team that stands solid according to who you are. The "plays" are for you, not her.

[waverider]

Trying to play "steer" will be received as trying to control or contrive. It will blow up.

Conversely this is what she will attempt to do, your place is to avoid being led where you dont want to go.

State your reality, what you feel. Concisely. Dont sell it, and then leave it her court and see what unravels.

[MrBlueEyes]

Thank you for your replies.

After reading your responses, I went back and reread my post.

I suppose I came off like an ass.


All Im trying to get at is the timing of what I do. I am not going to manipuate or attempt to manipulate her. The only thing I would consider saying differently then my authentic feelings is if fellow board members though I should avoid being mushy to avoid engulfment concerns on her part.

All I was trying to get at is as we all have read, BPDs seem to push and push until they feel they have lost you. I feel that if I do not get enough signals from her that she is ready to reenage and I attempt to reengage her before she feels that I am lost that she will then just go back to pushing me away again.

I believe now that I have read what I have an have a better understanding of her that I can attempt to be with her again. When you dont understand what you are dealing with and you lookat  people with BPD as everyone else then thier behavior can be more fustrating then it would be if you did understand, and consequently instead of validating and soothing them most would eventually push back instead, as I did.


So now that she knows I want to talk to her she I leave the ball in her court so to speak. Or should I lay it all out there now. Or just wait for her to make more solid moves of her intentions?

[waverider]

Hang out the open for business sign, and allow her to walk in the door if that is her wish. You dont have to lay it all out.

Often saying less is best, in our attempts to validate we can easily get it wrong and invalidate triggering defensive behavior. It is better to be wary and concentrate on not invalidating.

[MrBlueEyes]

Thank you all for your replies.

So I wanted to give an update and ask another question.


So after a week of trying to be around, me talking to my friends etc, as I mentioned. She then seemed a little stand offish and I didn't see her around for a week.

Then I asked her via email about her tax return as I recieved mine and she owes me money thats supposed to be paid upon her recieving her tax return.

She was angry told me not to bug her I would get it when she got it etc. I kept trying to communicate about why she was all of the sudden angry again. I did act a little different in the fact that I was asking for her to apologize for her behavior and name calling I got a little angry and told her that she was out of line etc.I told her she was disapointing me. This agitated her and she was saying she would never talk to me again etc.

Then I get a text from the guy she is with now telling me to leave her alone and a few insults. I do not respond to him.

I sent her one last email telling her that it made no sense to me why she was with this guy again as she admits to everyone that she thinks he in unmotivated (makes 10 an hour and will not go to school or even try to get into another line of work), he;s ugly, he's stupid, he's fat.



Then the very next day I see her at work and she is looking at me again etc. She smiles at me etc.

Then the following day she made several attepts to talk to me, tried joking around with me, after work she followed me outside to smoke. however, I was talking to another girl so we did not speak.

made another attempt to talk to me before I left work.




So what I do not understand.

Why after i stand up for myself and get a little angry does she threaten to never talk to me again but still exchnged another 3 or 4 messages with me?

Why after reminding her about all the bad things she has said about this guy (or maybe this is also due to me getting angry?)does she then the next two days get more aggressive about talking to me, act flirty etc.?



Everything I have read here seems to say that you validate and keep calm, but when I finally get pissed off at her and stand up to her she seems to be interested, of course at the moment she was mean and name calling.

[MrBlueEyes]

So I was finally able to talk to her at work for 10 minutes without any negative looks, tone of voice, etc.

She told me about what was going on with her as far as school. and chatted a bit.

I told her that I still wanted to talk to her. She asked what the point was. I told her that over the last few months there has been many things said and done that need to be discussed and that how I thought about her might be imporved if I could understand her thoughts and feelings concerning the break up.

During the conversation I told her that I still cared about her and was glad she was doing well.

Once I said the words "still care about you" she lit up like a kid on christmas. She could not stop smiling.

She had to return to work and I hugged her and left.


So my questions are why might those few words cause such a reaction? or is it more likely that it was just the conversation in general and it took until those words until she lit up?

Why might she be soo happy that I care about her? Does this automatically mean shes interested again? Or might it be just an ego boost?

[Mr.Downtrodden]

Your words validated her, but only for the moment.  Like when the battery for your notebook computer needs a charge.

To try and read anything more than that is illusory.

You're only fooling yourself.

I now believe the only people who can carry on a relationship with a BPD person is a full blown sociopath.  Someone who only cares about themselves and can play the back & forth perpetual game, devoid of emotional feelings.

[MrBlueEyes]

Mr.Downtrodden I appriciate your response.

However, I do not believe I'm fooling myself in any way here.

This is why I come here to ask questions. To understand how I percieve things or think things may be playing out versus what others that have experienced similar things both on the BPD side and the nons view them.

In the past as I have posted things followed a similar path with a few exceptions.

It is my desire to have as much knowledge about this issue as I can obtain without being BPD myself.

[Mr.Downtrodden]

I'm not trying to be mean spirited towards your situation; I am merely reflecting common sense.

It's a control issue, and your SO cannot handle boundaries you've set.  Getting angry with her will only make her more angry and distant.

Once you are past the idealization / love bombing stage, you are doomed to a legacy of push / pull, raging, distancing... .all for what?  A couple of days (Hours?) of affection?

Be honest with yourself.  You may not be able to see things clearly yet.  It took me a year and a half.

[Jessica84]

I don't believe you have to be a sociopath to be in a BPD r/s - not sure a true sociopath even feels emotions? I don't see a pwBPD could even relate to them? What it takes is patience (loads of it), understanding, and a willingness to learn. Forgiveness helps too. We are still allowed to feel things, we just can't let our emotions rule us - as theirs does them.

[waverider]

So my questions are why might those few words cause such a reaction? or is it more likely that it was just the conversation in general and it took until those words until she lit up?

Why might she be soo happy that I care about her? Does this automatically mean shes interested again? Or might it be just an ego boost?

That statement was of how you feel about her now, in this moment. It validates the now

Going over past issues is of no concern to her unless she has a reason to do so. Yesterday is gone and of no relevance to her unless there is fuel there to drag up to validate how she feels right now. You choosing to bring it up is an invalidation threat

[waverider]

I'm not trying to be mean spirited towards your situation; I am merely reflecting common sense.

It's a control issue, and your SO cannot handle boundaries you've set.  Getting angry with her will only make her more angry and distant.

Once you are past the idealization / love bombing stage, you are doomed to a legacy of push / pull, raging, distancing... .all for what?  A couple of days (Hours?) of affection?

Be honest with yourself.  You may not be able to see things clearly yet.  It took me a year and a half.

Every situation is different. The purpose of this board is to draw out the full potential to turn these relationships around to a worthwhile outcome. This does not always mean cessation of BPD traits. Rather a working relationship even if dysfunctional.

Some will achieve this, some will not. That can't be foretold. many well experienced and learned members have still have had their relationship fold. The point is they exhausted all the potetntial and have arrived at their decision with full clarity of why it was so. They have no regrets and can leave without constantly thinking "what if?". Bitterness levels are a lot lower. They also have grown as a person themselves.

Conversely many seemingly hopeless cases have been turned around to successful outcomes that would never have been predicted.

Hence it is against the GUIDELINES of the Staying Board  to prematurely advise members to leave a relationship as a first response. It is ok to question "why do you wish to stay?" as that needs to be clear in members minds in order to commit properly to what they are trying achieve.

If members can keep these principles in mind other members will not get side tracked into justifying and defending situations they have yet to grasp full understanding of.

Thanks

Waverider

[Mr.Downtrodden]

Understood.

My fault for not realizing which forum board hosts the OP's question.

[MrBlueEyes]

Waverider,

Once I read your comment about her feelings at the moment it made complete sense. At the time I was validating her although i wasnt doing it intentional, when I did ask her to talk right then and there she made the comment about hoping she got off work soon. So looking back I believe if iwould have made acomment to the effect of hanging out immediately she may have went for it.  

Now though it's been 3 days and I sent her an email today telling her I appreciate that we could talk without anger etc. That iwas happy to hear about her schooling abd asked when we could talk. And I have gotten no response. I have learned that she just will not respond to electronic communications unless she is angry abd it will be all negative. However, in person is almost always positive.

[Notwendy]

Waverider, I firmly agree with not telling someone to leave a r/s on the staying board. Nobody here fully understands someone else's relationships- the ups and downs and when people are in a dilemma, they post about that. I also understand that these r/s are complex, some involving children, joint property, and not to be underestimated- good times and a comitment to each other.

What I am curious about is the "recycle" phenomenon. I don't think I experienced that. If a r/s was over- and one or both partners wanted to leave, then that was the situation. Yet, here on this board, are people dealing with partners who do leave them, yet they are still in some sort of r/s. While I would not ever tell someone to leave a r/s, if their partner leaves, there isn't much to do to stop the partner if they are determined to do so. If the partner wants to return later, the choice becomes "do I take them back" not to leave or stay. I also agree that this has to be their own personal choice, and not to tell them what to do either way.

Even if the non dearly wants the partner back- and the partner isn't willing, or is going back and forth, then what?

So, I'm a bit confused as to when is a r/s over and when is it not? When is it healthier to just say it is over and when to hope for reconcilliation? I know that is ultimately a personal choice too. Being with someone wBPD is confusing because if they are dysregulating, they are not always saying /doing what they mean, so how do you know when to accept their decision about a r/s?

[waverider]

So, I'm a bit confused as to when is a r/s over and when is it not? When is it healthier to just say it is over and when to hope for reconcilliation? I know that is ultimately a personal choice too. Being with someone wBPD is confusing because if they are dysregulating, they are not always saying /doing what they mean, so how do you know when to accept their decision about a r/s?

That is always a hard question, especially with BPD involved. When is final really final. At what stage does a member move to either Coping or Leaving boards? Ultimately it is when the tools for Staying are no longer required. It would be encouraged that members at least visit these other boards when this is looking like a real possibility.

If it is felt that the member would benefit from some harder leave or go discussions then we would recommend them, or even move topics,  to the undecided board.

Run messages on the Staying board dont just affect the member concerned but others who are also sensitive who happen to read this board looking for hope

Members who have fully explored the staying possibilities will have a clearer understanding when that line has been reached. Some will bounce back and forth as they recycle.

At times it is necessary to lead someone through to their own conclusion by encouraging them to examine where they are at in a centered way. We are not in their shoes and never have a complete picture, this means it is up to them to decide, we simply help with the interpretation.

Hopefully members will learn to take back control of their own lives and not left depending on what their partners are going to do. Facing the hard questions to end the recycling

eg

What will be different if he/she comes back?

Why do you want to go around again?

Can you accept the same old situation?

What will you future hold if you get back together?

what will your future hold if you dont?

Recycling is a hell hole we try to keep people out of the best we can. Too long in the undecided mindset creates a victim mentality and you can become stuck