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Author Topic: I think I burst his bubble, now I pay  (Read 442 times)
Crumbling
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« on: February 12, 2015, 06:51:31 PM »

So, the other day I had a great super day.  I wrote about it on the Taking Inventory board, but now my h is acting strange, and I'm not sure how to work through this. 

(I am always on a rush on the board now, so bear with me if I need to stop mid post and start again    Sorry, but there's no privacy here.) 

Anyway, ever since the day I shovelled the neighbour's roof and got paid good money for it, he's been after me to baby and coddle him.  He needs help with everything, he can't find anything, he's constantly correcting me, and wants to have sex.  I don't.  I think he may just want it for some type of self validation.   

The more I think about it, the more I believe that that is the only reason he ever wants to have sex.  It's never because he wants to feel passion with me.  And that hurts, and that is what I think I'm attempting to change.  Anyways.

And he's approaching me in the cold "all for him" ways he does.  I'm sorry, but when he shows up with the laundry basket naked, he gets to do laundry.  Valentine's Day is only two days away, and we just had success with him respecting my need to feel, well, ... .wooed, I guess.  It's hard to put words on the feeling, but like Vortex says, you know when they've got it right.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

This is a good chance to prove himself to me, just like he just did.  He offered me a back rub this morning... .I sat right up, smiled big and giggled a little, and let him know that would be great.  It didn't happen.  He's been busying himself all day, and continually nit-picking at me.  ggggrrrrrrr.

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Crumbling
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2015, 09:05:37 AM »

We had a good discussion on here a while ago about what it means to be a man, and how trying to live up to the typical definition, or stereotypes isn't always helpful or healthy.  But... .what if the man himself wants to be defined that way but does nothing to move in that direction?

Is there anything that I can do that would help him raise his own self worth as a man - besides sex?  I know my recent actions cut him down a notch, the change in him was really obvious after all was said and done. 

... .I'm nervous about these crickets I'm hearing... .did I say/do something wrong in my post?  Be honest?  Am I divulging too deep?  Is it wrong for me to insist on being wooed?  Am I being too hard on him?

Thoughts?
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2015, 09:14:19 AM »

Short answer: "No."

Slightly longer answer: His self-worth only counts if it comes from himself. If he needs to do "X" to feel self worth, every time he hears about this from you detracts a bit from what he would feel when he actually does "X".

 It is really hard to sit and watch this unfold... .or not unfold.

Ask him to "woo" you because you want it, not because of how he will feel when he does it.
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2015, 10:15:47 AM »

Anyway, ever since the day I shovelled the neighbour's roof and got paid good money for it, he's been after me to baby and coddle him.  He needs help with everything, he can't find anything, he's constantly correcting me, and wants to have sex.  I don't.  I think he may just want it for some type of self validation.   

Sounds like jealousy to me. It is quite possible that he is upset that YOU got the job and the money. As a man, he is the one that should have been offered the job. Not YOU. I am not saying that this is the case but this is a dynamic that has played out in my house a time or two. I will do stuff that is man's work and then he gets all goofy and wants what you describe. To be coddled and babied. Sex used to be part of that equation.

Excerpt
The more I think about it, the more I believe that that is the only reason he ever wants to have sex.  It's never because he wants to feel passion with me.  And that hurts, and that is what I think I'm attempting to change.  Anyways.

I know that feeling all too well and it hurts like hell. I don't know if you can change that because that is about him, not you. It is about him being afraid of true intimacy. You can refuse to participate in it but you can't really make him change. I know it feels like a punch in the gut to think that your partner doesn't want to feel passion with you. The truth is that passion is a bit over rated. I know that I have tried to come up with all sorts of ways to describe what was going on. Lack of passion. Lack of connection. Focused on him. Mechanical. Missing something. And a bunch of other really vague descriptions that seem almost impossible to describe or put into words and that makes it even more difficult to change because you can't really come out and say something like, "I want you to want me." Really, that is what I think the source of a lot of my problems have been. I have wanted him to act like he wanted ME.

Excerpt
This is a good chance to prove himself to me, just like he just did.  He offered me a back rub this morning... .I sat right up, smiled big and giggled a little, and let him know that would be great.  It didn't happen.  He's been busying himself all day, and continually nit-picking at me.  ggggrrrrrrr.

I have mixed feelings about making them prove themselves. I can give my husband all sorts of tasks to do but him completing those tasks doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things because all it shows is that he can follow directions. That is great and wonderful but it does nothing to address the underlying problems with intimacy and attachment. I say that because I have been with my husband for almost 17 years and something has always been slightly off. He could do all sorts of things that I asked him to do but those things were done in a way that left me feeling really frustrated. For years, I dismissed those gut level feelings as "Man, I must be a horrible and demanding B***H because my husband is doing these things and I still feel like something is missing. I thought I was the problem because I felt like my husband could be with pretty much anybody and be just as happy if not happier.
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Crumbling
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2015, 05:35:26 PM »

Thanks for the feedback.  What you said makes sense, GK, about it needing to come from him... .frustrating, but it makes sense. 

VC... .

Sex used to be part of that equation.

Is it no longer part of the equation just because you two are having such a hard time today, or because of his work with his SA?  I read your posts closely, because our h's are so similair, and I really wonder sometimes if my h doesn't have the same issue as yours.  I don't know if he has really processed being BPD, so I wouldn't go there with him, but just something I've often wondered.

He could do all sorts of things that I asked him to do but those things were done in a way that left me feeling really frustrated. For years, I dismissed those gut level feelings as "Man, I must be a horrible and demanding B***H because my husband is doing these things and I still feel like something is missing. I thought I was the problem because I felt like my husband could be with pretty much anybody and be just as happy if not happier. [/quote]
:'(

gotta go... .
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2015, 05:45:42 PM »

I say that because I have been with my husband for almost 17 years and something has always been slightly off. He could do all sorts of things that I asked him to do but those things were done in a way that left me feeling really frustrated. For years, I dismissed those gut level feelings as "Man, I must be a horrible and demanding B***H because my husband is doing these things and I still feel like something is missing.

I think this issue is a perfect example of something I've said many times here about how validation works:

If you give 99% validation with that little 1% hint of invalidation, the whole soup is spoiled... .and your pwBPD will react only to the invalidation as if the validation never happened.

I think this is a case of you asking for something... .and getting it with something that is subtly off (most likely invalidating!) mixed into it.

It doesn't feel like what you wanted at all. Because with that little bit in there, it really ISN'T what you wanted! And your coping mechanism is to blame yourself instead of blowing up over it... .and of course your husband will blame you if you say something about it... .and you have a tendency to believe him there too.

  There is a lot to unpack in something like this.
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2015, 09:22:28 PM »

Is it no longer part of the equation just because you two are having such a hard time today, or because of his work with his SA?  I read your posts closely, because our h's are so similair, and I really wonder sometimes if my h doesn't have the same issue as yours.  I don't know if he has really processed being BPD, so I wouldn't go there with him, but just something I've often wondered.

It is off the table because of his work with SA and some of the work that I am trying to do on myself. I have been reading a lot of recovery materials targeted towards partners of SA. It was really difficult for me to work on myself when I felt like there was this underlying pressure to be sexual with him. I was a bit tied up in knots because I didn't want to be with him but knew that he would be a grumpy butt if I didn't take care of him from time to time. I don't recall exactly how I introduced it but I saw something about having 90 days of complete abstinence (as opposed to not acting out) in order to reset things a bit. When I posed it, I tried to frame it as, "I need the space to work on myself and figure out what the heck is going on with ME." We have agreed on a date on the calendar to reconsider reintroducing sex back into our relationship.

I would really like a therapeutic separation but that is not possible due to finances and other circumstances. So, I sleep on the couch and sex is out of the equation for now. All of this has been done with his agreement. His sponsor has been encouraging him to let me have my feelings without getting defensive. On the really hard stuff, I have been referring him to his sponsor because I don't want too many details and I don't want t get sucked back into being his therapist/support person. I am trying to focus on ME as I realize that I have some really screwed up stuff going on within myself that makes it difficult for me to set boundaries and see things more clearly. 
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2015, 09:26:25 PM »

It doesn't feel like what you wanted at all. Because with that little bit in there, it really ISN'T what you wanted! And your coping mechanism is to blame yourself instead of blowing up over it... .and of course your husband will blame you if you say something about it... .and you have a tendency to believe him there too.

I think you have made an excellent point. When I ask for something that seems perfectly reasonable and his reaction is to get upset or stomp around while doing it, that is very, very invalidating. I do things that I don't want to do all of the time but I don't do it in a huff, screw it up, or scowl while doing it. Since he reacts the way he does, I tend to blame myself for asking. If I was a better wife/mother/person, I would have done it myself instead of asking him. Between his non-verbally invalidating me and my own tendency to invalidate myself, it is a recipe for a bunch of crap.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2015, 12:58:35 PM »

Thanks for the input, everyone.  I gain so much from you're comments.

 

VC - I hope your 90 days does your r/s some good.  It's a good idea, and only something we've discussed, but never pursued.  I'm interested to see what impact is has for you.  You're fortunate to have a strong support system for both of you.

I spent yesterday afternoon with someone I've begun to call my non-husband.  I've known him for as long as I have my h, and they knew each other before then.  I can talk to him about everything.  He's really supportive and wants only what's best for us.  I opened up to him yesterday about everything that's been going on, and he encouraged me to be bold and do what needs to be done to help myself out if this funk.  Even if that means a physical separation.

It doesn't feel like what you wanted at all. Because with that little bit in there, it really ISN'T what you wanted! And your coping mechanism is to blame yourself instead of blowing up over it... .and of course your husband will blame you if you say something about it... .and you have a tendency to believe him there too.

I think you have made an excellent point. When I ask for something that seems perfectly reasonable and his reaction is to get upset or stomp around while doing it, that is very, very invalidating. I do things that I don't want to do all of the time but I don't do it in a huff, screw it up, or scowl while doing it. Since he reacts the way he does, I tend to blame myself for asking. If I was a better wife/mother/person, I would have done it myself instead of asking him. Between his non-verbally invalidating me and my own tendency to invalidate myself, it is a recipe for a bunch of crap.

This is exactly what my non-husband stated as being so evident in my h... .this notion that anything anyone else does/says is less important than him.  He took a glass of water, and said this is your r/s when it works good; pure, clear, easy to see thru.  Then he took a little bit of milk and just let little drops fall into the glass as he repeated the many negative things that h does/says (including the huffing and puffing about being 'forced' part!) thru the run of a day.  The water of course became milky, opaque, and unpure.  Then he went to the sink and let fresh water flow into the glass saying this is how much effort both parties need to put into it to get things right again.  Have you ever done this?  It takes like a gallon of water to get it to come clear again, even if you only put in a few drops! 

He said unless you have superhuman strength, one person can not make the r/s clean up right.  It made everything so clear, especially knowing that this behaviour is likely always going to be a part of who he is.  He promised to keep close tabs on him, and be there if he does crash and burn over a separation, if I would agree to go somewhere far away, where he couldn't just continue nit-picking me on the phone, or showing up unannounced. 

Let me tell you, I felt a million pounds lifting off my chest as we talked the afternoon away.  Then we went out for a coffee and a fun game of pool!  It was an unplanned non-date with my non-husband and I can home feeling lighter than I have for a really long time.  Then on the way home I stopped in on another friend, and got to hold her two day old grandbaby!  Heaven!  Then I came home to an empty house.  Sat and ate supper alone, then after another hour or so I went off to the neighbour's, and there was h - drinking beer.  So I sat and enjoyed some wine, too.  He got want he wanted and I got what I wanted, so I'm going to say it was a successful V-day... .sometimes the best you can shoot for is 'reasonably happy', right?

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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2015, 02:30:35 PM »

VC - I hope your 90 days does your r/s some good.  It's a good idea, and only something we've discussed, but never pursued.  I'm interested to see what impact is has for you.  You're fortunate to have a strong support system for both of you.

My support system is primarily online.  Smiling (click to insert in post) Because of the SA stuff, I don't feel like I have any friends in real life that I can lean on. I found an online group that is primarily focused on SA so that helps a lot. It has only been a week or two but it has already made a big difference. I am no longer worrying about whether or not I should "take care of him" (if you know what I mean). I spent a lot of time fretting over whether or not I should or shouldn't. If I didn't take care of him, then he would become grumpy and sullen and be a jerk. If I did take care of him, he would be in a better mood but I wouldn't feel great about it because of all of the stuff going on. Now, I don't have to worry about that at all. And, we don't have to have those uncomfortable conversations that kept coming up there for a while. It was push/pull galore. Both of us said that we were uncomfortable with things for different reasons.

The longer I don't have to think or worry about that, the more clear I am getting about some things. And, I think it is actually making us both nicer. We had a really good Valentine's day. He took our oldest daughter to the bookstore in the morning and then we went out as a family during the afternoon. He didn't melt down and he wasn't a jerk. That was HUGE. All too often, the kids don't want to go out as a family because they don't want to deal with dad being a jerk. We came home and he grilled and then we watched movies. It was great.


Excerpt
Let me tell you, I felt a million pounds lifting off my chest as we talked the afternoon away.  Then we went out for a coffee and a fun game of pool!  It was an unplanned non-date with my non-husband and I can home feeling lighter than I have for a really long time.  Then on the way home I stopped in on another friend, and got to hold her two day old grandbaby!  Heaven!  Then I came home to an empty house.  Sat and ate supper alone, then after another hour or so I went off to the neighbour's, and there was h - drinking beer.  So I sat and enjoyed some wine, too.  He got want he wanted and I got what I wanted, so I'm going to say it was a successful V-day... .sometimes the best you can shoot for is 'reasonably happy', right?

I am so happy to hear that you had such a good day. It is amazing how good it feels when somebody in real life validates the things that you have been thinking, feeling, and seeing. I know that when I first started opening up about some stuff, I was so scared and then the more I shared, the better I felt. I will never forget the time that my brother shared a story about something my husband did and how he thought it was odd. People didn't want to say anything to me because they didn't want to upset me or hurt my feelings.

I was reading something somewhere else and somebody said the phrase "extraordinary tolerance of inappropriate behavior". I think that is what a lot of us have developed over time. I know that I have developed an extraordinary tolerance of inappropriate behavior. I can objectively say, "On what planet is that kind of behavior okay?" But then, I go back into my little world and don't see that it seems to be okay on my little planet because I have continued to allow it to happen.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2015, 03:15:12 PM »

I spent yesterday afternoon with someone I've begun to call my non-husband.  I've known him for as long as I have my h, and they knew each other before then.  I can talk to him about everything.  He's really supportive and wants only what's best for us.  I opened up to him yesterday about everything that's been going on, and he encouraged me to be bold and do what needs to be done to help myself out if this funk.  Even if that means a physical separation.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  Crumbling, this is awesome that you are reaching out for this kind of support!   It is even more awesome that you are getting it!

Please give him a different title than 'non-husband'. Perhaps "Captain of Team Crumbling." FYI, Team Grey Kitty offline is referred to as "Team <Grey Kitty's real life first name>" Maybe this one day isn't quite enough to promote him to captain of Team Crumbling. Or not yet. Whatever, he sure is a member in good standing!

As the captain of Team Grey Kitty has reminded me many times, words are very significant. For some reason when I was reading your post, I skipped this intro paragraph and saw the references to your non-husband below, and little alarm bells were going off in my head every time I read a word like non-husband or non-date. The intention behind words like that will have an impact, and it won't be a good one.

I really believe that what you are doing with this old friend is very healthy for all involved. I'm so delighted for you!
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Crumbling
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 01:46:59 PM »

I used non-h because to me, it indicates a closeness without implying sex... .but I can reconsider.  He'd like 'Team Captain' as a title I'm sure.  It was so validating for me, to have someone walk beside me, hold doors open, bring me my coffee, let me decide what we do, speak full sentences without interrupted and told I'm wrong... .I felt light as air.  It would be great to stay more connected to this friend, but he travels a lot and is only available for short bouts at a time.

I'm glad your Vday was good VC.  It's great to hear you can still make special memories with the family, in spite of your situation.  I guess my step to not have cold sex is sort of helping too, but in a different way. 

His stubborn refusal to do anything different than what we've done in the past has become the elephant in the room.  It's a glaring reality that this is who he is, and he is not the least bit interested in meeting me on my terms, even just slightly.  That one back rub and the positive results were because he made the effort, but to him, that one time should have been enough - he shouldn't have to do it 'every time'.  It's only been once... .

He says I'm making him jump through hoops to 'get what he wants'.  He says I'm crazy to believe that any man would do things like this for his wife.  He says the men who take their wives on weekly dates are nuts, or pu$$y-whipped.  His take, now, is - this is who he's always been, it's who he is always going to be and there is nothing he can do to change it.  I don't know if he thinks he's convincing me I'm wrong, but it is certainly having the opposite effect on me. ... .It feels like his true colours are shining though, and they clash drastically with my own.

I know he is just waiting for me to drop the boundary and come to him, but I wont.  I can't.  It's just not in me anymore.  I am finally beginning to believe that I deserve better than this, and if I go back on my boundary, then I'll end up second guessing myself again. 

I'm fed up with trying.  A friend sent me a link to an article about a couple who were having difficulties, and the man took it upon himself to ask his wife every morning what he could do that would help make her day better.  She turned her nose up at him, she gave him big tasks, she gave him curt responses that were obviously in spite... .every time he did what she suggested no questions asked and no arguing.  After a few weeks she began to do the same for him, and eventually their relationship got better.

This friend really has no idea what I'm going thru, just that things are tough and have been for a while in my marriage, so she had no idea that this was an impossible dream in my world.  If I took it upon myself to do this, I would be shattered in a month, because I could not bear the burdens he would put on me.  And to even consider that he would do such a selfless thing is laughable. 

The contrast between the commitment of this man in the article and my h was so blatant to me, that I read him the article, just to see is reaction... .know what?  His only response was that it would take him a lot longer to clean out the garage than it took the guy in the article... .I think in his eyes, he does SSSSOO much for me, that I'm being unreasonable to want to feel he desires me, I should just 'know' he desires me, and submit.   

I don't know, I'm just feeling really frustrated with the whole thing.  I'm afraid he will stand his ground until I feel I have no choice but to leave, then he'll tell me it's my fault things didn't work.  Nothing will change for him and I will be left picking up the scattered pieces of me, again.

What VC said about 'extraordinary tolerance of inappropriate behaviour' made me think that maybe this is the wall we've reached... .I am no longer tolerant of his inappropriate advances.  If he cant/wont change his inappropriate behaviours, than I either tolerate them or ... .what? leave? 

I'm just venting.  Sorry this post is so long.

c.

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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 03:10:49 PM »

I used non-h because to me, it indicates a closeness without implying sex... .but I can reconsider.  He'd like 'Team Captain' as a title I'm sure.  It was so validating for me, to have someone walk beside me, hold doors open, bring me my coffee, let me decide what we do, speak full sentences without interrupted and told I'm wrong... .I felt light as air.  It would be great to stay more connected to this friend, but he travels a lot and is only available for short bouts at a time.

I'm curious--is this friend married or in a relationship?

My concern here is that you are feeling very lonely and rejected by your husband right now. And very legitimately so--he's being horrible! You sound like you are in a state where you are vulnerable to getting sucked into an emotional affair. Or if not that, at least triangulate badly with your husband.

Since this guy is an old friend of both you and your husband, I'm sure he doesn't want to do anything like this. I'm sure he really wants to support you, your husband, and your marriage. He may not have enough emotional maturity to even be aware of these risks, and be very careful to find a ways to support you that aren't triangulating with your husband, and aren't leading you off toward an emotional affair with him.

Lots of guys have rescuing tendencies, so he may be very susceptible to getting sucked into an emotional affair too.

Please understand--I believe that both you and your friend are working with very good intentions. If you end up with something inappropriate, I don't think it will be because either of you set out to do it; it will feel like it 'just happened' after you get there. And then you will realize it is a mess.

My suggestion to you is this: Do the HARD work of good mental health, and look closely at what is going on, whether it is starting to slide into grey areas. And then to have a serious conversation with him, explaining that you really value his friendship, and you are working on your marriage, and you are asking him to help you by being very careful not to let your friendship slide into dangerous territory. In your description above, I highlighted some things in red that struck me as heading into the danger zone, and in green things that struck me as completely healthy.

Honestly, the contrast between the good behavior of a friend and the crappy behavior of your husband is going to challenge your marriage enough all by itself. If it helps convince you that you are worth better treatment than your husband is giving you, that is fantastic.

And I hope your husband starts stepping up to the plate and behaving better. Meanwhile... .post-venting... .back to working on yourself. 
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2015, 05:58:33 PM »

I used non-h because to me, it indicates a closeness without implying sex... .but I can reconsider.  He'd like 'Team Captain' as a title I'm sure.  It was so validating for me, to have someone walk beside me, hold doors open, bring me my coffee, let me decide what we do, speak full sentences without interrupted and told I'm wrong... .I felt light as air.  It would be great to stay more connected to this friend, but he travels a lot and is only available for short bouts at a time.

I want to echo what GK said. It sounds like you could be walking into dangerous territory. Doesn't the word "friend" indicate a closeness without implying sex?   I have male friends that I talk to but I don't really make a distinction about gender. A friend is a friend is a friend.

Excerpt
I'm glad your Vday was good VC.  It's great to hear you can still make special memories with the family, in spite of your situation.  I guess my step to not have cold sex is sort of helping too, but in a different way. 

I am curious to hear more about this. In what way is it helping?

Excerpt
He says I'm making him jump through hoops to 'get what he wants'.  He says I'm crazy to believe that any man would do things like this for his wife.  He says the men who take their wives on weekly dates are nuts, or pu$$y-whipped.  His take, now, is - this is who he's always been, it's who he is always going to be and there is nothing he can do to change it.  I don't know if he thinks he's convincing me I'm wrong, but it is certainly having the opposite effect on me. ... .It feels like his true colours are shining though, and they clash drastically with my own.

I am going to flip this around on you for a second. Could he say the same thing about you? Are you changing your expectations on him? Did you used to want back rubs? Did you used to want this stuff? Has he always been this way but you failed to see it? These are all questions that I have asked myself. I used to be okay with being treated like crap. Why am I changing the rules on him?

Excerpt
I know he is just waiting for me to drop the boundary and come to him, but I wont.  I can't.  It's just not in me anymore.  I am finally beginning to believe that I deserve better than this, and if I go back on my boundary, then I'll end up second guessing myself again. 

No, don't go back. I have spent years chasing my husband and relaxing boundaries. It didn't do any good. He would get what he wanted and I was left unhappy.

Excerpt
I'm fed up with trying.  A friend sent me a link to an article about a couple who were having difficulties, and the man took it upon himself to ask his wife every morning what he could do that would help make her day better.  She turned her nose up at him, she gave him big tasks, she gave him curt responses that were obviously in spite... .every time he did what she suggested no questions asked and no arguing.  After a few weeks she began to do the same for him, and eventually their relationship got better.

What a bunch of hogwash! I have read tons of articles like that. I have done the whole "take it upon myself to do wonderful things for him" and it didn't work because the more I gave, the more he wanted. I started out doing wonderful things for him out of love and blah, blah, blah but over time, the more I did, the more he wanted, and he actually started doing less and less. Articles like that might be inspirational and helpful for people that are in a normal relationship. All those articles did for me was make me feel bad and guilty because I felt like I must not be doing something right because it isn't working the way people are telling me it should. If I had a nickel for every time I read something like that, I'd have a bag of nickels to bop somebody over the head with.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
The contrast between the commitment of this man in the article and my h was so blatant to me, that I read him the article, just to see is reaction... .know what?  His only response was that it would take him a lot longer to clean out the garage than it took the guy in the article... .I think in his eyes, he does SSSSOO much for me, that I'm being unreasonable to want to feel he desires me, I should just 'know' he desires me, and submit.   

Stop reading articles like that. Seriously, it is torturous because it keeps me from seeing and accepting the full reality of what is going on. It gives me false hopes that I will somehow figure out the magic formula. What about the woman's commitment in the story? What about her part? It reminds me of all of the fairy tale themes where some determined/committed person (usually female) jumps through a series of hoops and breaks down the resistant one (usually male) and they fall in love and live happily ever after. Think about Beauty and the Beast and pretty much ever friggin' love story ever. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Not trying to be a downer but I wonder if that is a true story or some kind of fabricated story to encourage the "good" partner to try harder.

And don't get me started on the notion of submitting! I will happily submit to my husband, but only if certain conditions are met. At one point, I was even reading stuff about how to do a better job of submitting to my husband because I know that I am a bit spirited and stubborn and all kinds of other adjectives that can make me difficult to live with at times. I created a bit of a stink at home one time because my husband is very Christian and grew up in a very religious house. I did not. Anyway, I went on a hunt to look for information about submission.

I can't find the original source but I did find this one: https://carm.org/apologetics/womens-issues/responsibilities-husband-and-wife

Here is another interesting read: www.girlsgonewise.com/7-misconceptions-about-submission/

I would submit to my husband any day of the week if he met the standards that are set forth in a lot of the stuff that I have read about Biblical submission. On #4 of the last link I posted, it says, "It’s his responsibility to be affectionate. It’s her responsibility to be agreeable. The husband’s responsibility is to sacrificially love as Christ loved the Church—not to make his wife submit." #5 is good too: "A wife is not called to submit to sin, mistreatment, or abuse."

I hope you don't mind me throwing some religious stuff in there. I have been on a quest to figure out a magic formula for years.

Excerpt
I'm just venting.  Sorry this post is so long.

c.

     

We all need a good vent from time to time!
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Crumbling
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2015, 06:46:26 PM »

  , I only have a little time, and I do want to keep up this discussion, but I had to say, I laughed when I read your concerns about my friend.   He is single, but he is also a man of the cloth, and he is a musician in the final stages of MS.  When he is not tending to medical issues, he is on tour.  He is not a threat, but   , bless you both soo much   for caring!  He and I both knew what he was doing... .teaching me how a lady should be treated. 

He and my h have been friends for a long time before me.  He would never betray that.  I think when I first met him, he may have hoped I would ' ick him', but he understood and respects my decision to be with my h.  And he knows very well that I am suffering because I want to be with my h and not just leave him to his vices.

, gotta go, c.


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Crumbling
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2015, 07:02:33 PM »

Okay, I have another ten minutes... .

I guess my step to not have cold sex is sort of helping too, but in a different way. 

I am curious to hear more about this. In what way is it helping?

It is helping me to see who he really is, just how non-committed he is to the r/s... .helping me understand him, I guess.

I am going to flip this around on you for a second. Could he say the same thing about you? Are you changing your expectations on him? Did you used to want back rubs? Did you used to want this stuff? Has he always been this way but you failed to see it? These are all questions that I have asked myself. I used to be okay with being treated like crap. Why am I changing the rules on him?

I struggle with this very question a lot.  I see where it can be viewed as unfair to him, but to me, in my reality, he knows I have been stretching my emotional limits for a long time.  I just need to know he is willing to do the same, even a little.  If not, I feel belittled and used.  It's where I'm at, and if he can't accept it, that is his problem... .I may sound tough here, but it's a lot harder in real life to be this bold.  He does accept responsibility for being 'greedy' with his chosen sexual activities... .but he can't seem to get past that or change it.

No, don't go back. I have spent years chasing my husband and relaxing boundaries. It didn't do any good. He would get what he wanted and I was left unhappy. ... .

Stop reading articles like that. ... .

We all need a good vent from time to time!

Thanks for the advice.  I needed to hear these things.   

c.
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Crumbling
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2015, 07:03:22 PM »

And thanks for the links, VC.  I'm going to read thru them.

, c.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2015, 10:11:08 PM »

OK, I believe you won't have a real physical affair with him.

He is not a threat, but  , bless you both soo much  for caring!  He and I both knew what he was doing... .teaching me how a lady should be treated

This still sounds uncomfortably close to emotional affair territory... .I don't think you should make a habit of this sort of stuff.

However... .having a dear old friend who can support you in this struggle is very powerful. Just the sort of support that will really help you out in a huge way.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2015, 05:35:37 AM »

He is not a threat, but  , bless you both soo much  for caring!  He and I both knew what he was doing... .teaching me how a lady should be treated.  

Hi Crumbling,

Not sure if this will be of any help... . I know a couple where the husband always opens up doors for his wife, she waits in the car while he walks around to hold her hand while she gets out.  They're in their 50's, in great shape, good looking, successful careers, successful children, all that great stuff... .

I also know personal details about their relationship behind closed doors.  He's suffering from major depression, has issues with his father, he might open car doors, but won't open up to his wife, it's driving her crazy.  She's involved in all kinds of healing techniques, spiritual "healers", feels empty and confused etc etc etc... .

I guess my point is to not judge a book by its cover.  The grass isn't always greener... .

That sort of thing makes me laugh when I think of the "reality" of my relationship.  My bf usually drives. One day I was parked behind him so we took my car and I was low on gas.  I'm driving along and joked that I'd really like it if he pumped the gas for me.  He replied, "I bet you would".  "Laugh out loud (click to insert in post), I would, I hate pumping gas!"  Sure enough, he told me to turn at the next stop sign where a gas station was just up the road.  He got out, pumped, paid and brought me a Coke Smiling (click to insert in post)

No, he doesn't walk around to open the car door for me, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

We teach people how to treat us.



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