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Author Topic: She Still Can't Be Honest With The Kids  (Read 376 times)
Turkish
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« on: February 14, 2015, 11:06:55 PM »

S5 said something out of the blue tonight,.and this shows that I can never be lulled into thinking she's anyone different underneath than what she ultimately showed me.

"This is mommy's house."

No, buddy, it's my house, Mommy doesn't live here anymore. Mommy moved out.

"Why?"

Because mommy wanted to leave.

"Because it's messy."

No. Wait, is that what mommy said?

"Yes. She said she moved out because it's messy." [Here I wasn't going to explain that we all have a responsibility to keep a home clean, not that we hired a housekeeper about once a month to do a deep clean, really in order to alleviate her anxiety and anger]

No, buddy, that's not the reason. Mommy moved out because she wanted to. She's no longer my wife, and I'm no longer her husband. We don't love each other anymore.

"So you and mommy aren't friends?"

[Here a little lie on my part] yes, but that's it Buddy.

"Mommies and Daddies should be together."

I know they should be on, but sometimes things happen and they aren't.

He seemed to accept that.

In other news, I texted her asking for a kids being sick update for the weekend. She called me back. D2 had something like a night terror the other night, her first ever. She has been on and of being sick lately, little colds, a few nights of low grade fevers. Her mom woke to her screaming and crying. When D2 woke up and her mom took her to bed, D2 kept hitting and scratching her, D2's current way of showing anger and frustration. It concerned her mom enough to call me about it. Then she said that either that night or the previous one, it was, "I miss Daddy!" We are on a 3-2-2-3 schedule.

Their mom's been gone a year. I wonder if being more mentally developed, D2 is processing it differently now? She was certainly crabby when I picked her up yesterday, but she's as clingy to me as ever, and her little passive aggressive tantrums haven't increased out of the norm for me, being triggered by the usual things that you have to tell an almost 3 year old.

I get the sense that in a way, probably not conciously, that their mom wants me to fix things somehow. I'm not sure I can, even if I waned to on her side. All I can do is keep friendly contact so she keeps volunteering me information so I can know better what to do on my side.
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2015, 12:06:02 AM »

I'm sorry Turk. It's uncomfortable answering hard questions to small kids when we're left holding the bag.

Do you think maybe S5 posed the question to mom and mom dissociated? That's a pretty lame answer to a kid though.

I could be wrong but perhaps he's confused and is asking you? You gave him straight answers which will help him with trusting you in the long run. If he goes to mom and gets confusing answers, he may choose to turn to you - dad will give me a real answer.

I'm not an expert with night terrors. My S3 experienced several and the kids displayed different compartments due to the sudden changes with the family settings. One house one day with dad and one day a different house with a new man. He hasn't had any for sometime and I'm not sure what the triggers are as mom is secretive and he did display night terrors up to a year, year and a half later. I found it unnerving seeing my child go through this and not having the capacity to help or soothe.

Some say to try to wake them up and some say to let them go through it and they'll wake themselves up. I'm in the latter camp and they felt awfully long.

Has something changed at the other house? I'm not sure what mine were going through, she was dropping them off at several different places daily to be watched, out of town trips, they would stay at his house, her house and at her work place ( trailer ) all in the same week. I think it was the routine that may of caused stress on them. They seem adjusted since he moved in several months ago, maybe it's because of the routine.

I'm sorry for what your family is going through.
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Turkish
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Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2015, 12:28:44 AM »

Not sure if it's dissociation, or just what she feels best to tell him. I can think of several ways to dance around the truth, though, and her explanation is pretty pathetic. I was reading an article in Psych Today which said that is was probably best to tell the kids,.age appropriately, when one parent leaves for an affair partner. Since she wasn't honest from the beginning, to deal with the fallout then, I think they will eventually figure it out, and it won't come from me.

I know your kids are older. Have they figured it out? I now your Ex has been living with her affair partner-bf for a while, and you and the kids are dealing with those issues.

As for the night terrors, S5 had a few. Once when he was one and his mom was out (for something legitimate). It really freaked me, and I almost called her, but thought, "I need to handle this." It took me half an hour to calm him down. This is a new one for D2. She turns 3 in a couple of months.

Their mom volunteered that her bf-fiancee had only been over one night in the past week (I resisted snarkily replying, "maybe she misses him?". I said ok, and then she said, "he doesn't touch the kids and I've made it clear that they are number one," which is different than what she told me three weeks ago that they have always been "a priority" to her. I think you're right though, something changed.

D2 was pretty good today, even after I had to discipline her. I know she's more attached to me, and I don't know how much of that is a natural father-daughter thing or not. I feel guilty thinking that, too.

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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2015, 12:52:23 AM »

I say dissociation because of what feelings is it going to trigger in your ex when posed with a question of why she left? She knows what she did was wrong when she had an affair. She was having an emotional affair in your home on Skype in a different room? I would think it's going to trigger shame and guilt. She's lying ( dissociation )

The article makes sense, I think it may also be a good idea to have some distance? It took me a long time Turkish with my anger over the abandonment and affair. I think there's still residual emotions to work through. I'm saying it may be something to consider as well.

Have my kids figured it out? No. D9 is smart although she hasn't telegraphed to me that she knows. I'll tell you something ex said. She moved out Feb 2013 and I didn't know about BPD until June 2013. I was with her 8 years total. The only time I was invited inside of her house was 3 weeks after the split and I was busted up. Anyway she asked if I'd like to stay for supper and I said fine. I wanted to try to talk to her about what was going on. She had disclosed to the kids she had a boyfriend. So at the dinner table my ex looks at the kids and says "Mom and dad are divorced"  

Turk I was gobsmacked. We're seperated and your telling the kids we're divorced because of your boyfriend. These are thoughts that came to mind and not verbalized. I was shocked and stated at her stunned and hurt. Haven't stepped foot in her house since although I know it hurts the kids as they want to show me their home. I don't think they know about the affair, I simply told him mom and dad are friends and we're not going to be living together. We are two families.

I'm sorry to hear S5 had night terrors too.

Turkish, I'm not sure if I buy 1 day. My kids were going through an awful lot to trigger that. Everyone's child is different and copes differently. I understand feeling bad because she may be attached. My D9 was clingy for awhile and I think it was because she may not of understood the changes and I didn't do the best job at the time with helping them cope. Your D2 needs dad right? She's going through some sort of stress? I say stress as it is something that can cause it.
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Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2015, 01:41:49 AM »

She was texting him in front of me, the kids. They didn't know, but they got it. Leaving, mostly after they were asleep, but at other times. I hated to keep lying to them when S then 3 asked, "where's mommy?" They picked up on her detachment.

That your Ex told the kds that so abruptly was not only cold, but definitely age-inappropriate, and I'm sorry. I think these types of things don't end, especially when there isn't honesty. I've tried to teach S5 that: admit to what you did wrong, but don't lie to me, as the consequences for lying will be worse.
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2015, 02:02:22 AM »

I can't control the distortions and the fibs mom says at her house. D9 is sometimes confused and I do get the sense that she knows I'm straightforward with her, the objective is to build a long term rapport with her. I would assume she may not ask mom at some point as she ages she builds trust with dad. Why ask mom when she tells me something that sounds funny? I can go to dad and what he says sounds and feels right.

I control this and not mom and her lying and distortions work not for her, but against herself with her r/s with her child. That's the power that I have. Consistency, reliability, honesty, trust.

Play the long game Turkish.
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2015, 01:01:35 PM »

Not sure if it's dissociation, or just what she feels best to tell him. I can think of several ways to dance around the truth, though, and her explanation is pretty pathetic. I was reading an article in Psych Today which said that is was probably best to tell the kids,.age appropriately, when one parent leaves for an affair partner. Since she wasn't honest from the beginning, to deal with the fallout then, I think they will eventually figure it out, and it won't come from me.

It could be scary for a 5-year-old to think that someone might leave you if the house was messy.    He is going to associate these things he learns with his world, he's at the center of everything developmentally, so this is going to shape how he sees how life is (maybe chaotic). What did the article say in terms of how to tell a 5-year-old?

These issues are so tricky. In trying to protect S13 when he was 9, 10, 11, 12, I stopped protecting his dad, but sometimes my answers weren't entirely truthful. Even though he trusted me, he knew he wasn't getting the whole truth. I wish I had bought time when I wasn't sure. "That's a good question. I need to think about it. Let's talk about it tonight after dinner." And then really put myself in his shoes, and put some thought into what was going on with him, the question -- and what he would take away from the answer.

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Turkish
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Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 01:29:37 PM »

Not sure if it's dissociation, or just what she feels best to tell him. I can think of several ways to dance around the truth, though, and her explanation is pretty pathetic. I was reading an article in Psych Today which said that is was probably best to tell the kids,.age appropriately, when one parent leaves for an affair partner. Since she wasn't honest from the beginning, to deal with the fallout then, I think they will eventually figure it out, and it won't come from me.

It could be scary for a 5-year-old to think that someone might leave you if the house was messy.    He is going to associate these things he learns with his world, he's at the center of everything developmentally, so this is going to shape how he sees how life is (maybe chaotic).

My thoughts exactly! Her distorted world-view is going to influence the kids. That makes it sound like it's acceptable for parents to break up over any little thing. Kudos for S5 for stating the obvious: "Mommies and Daddies should stay together." He's wiser than his mom, at least in the larger picture of things.

The JADE argument there is that it got messier because she detached from us for months, up until about 6 weeks before she finally moved out where she got back to her emotional baseline. She left it very cluttered and it was up to me to clear out her clutter for weeks after she left. It was yet another thing about which to be angry.

When she was still living with us, I remember walking in on her and the kids where she was watching some women's empowerment video on youtube. I can't remember what it was exactly, but she made some Queenish comment to then S3. I know she was hurt and angry at me at the time, which drove her towards her paramour, but to our child, really?

Excerpt
What did the article say in terms of how to tell a 5-year-old?

Age appropriately. I knew this already, and my T said it many times regarding other things.

Excerpt
These issues are so tricky. In trying to protect S13 when he was 9, 10, 11, 12, I stopped protecting his dad, but sometimes my answers weren't entirely truthful. Even though he trusted me, he knew he wasn't getting the whole truth. I wish I had bought time when I wasn't sure. "That's a good question. I need to think about it. Let's talk about it tonight after dinner." And then really put myself in his shoes, and put some thought into what was going on with him, the question -- and what he would take away from the answer.

I know this is going to be a long haul. S5, while he emotionally dysregulates more than the average 5 year old, is actually pretty sharp.
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