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Author Topic: NC at Home Possible?  (Read 588 times)
vortex of confusion
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« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2015, 02:19:25 PM »

This is one of her big issues with me is that I don't express my feelings.  Problem is when I express my feelings she rages, gaslights, denies, rejects, etc.  So for awhile I just stopped.  My silence now is probably making her think more of the same from me.  In reality I'm just not engaging anymore. 

Have you clearly expressed that to her? I know it is difficult to do. At some point, it is helpful if you can find a way to say, "You know. You are right. I don't express my feelings. I don't express my feelings because I am afraid to do it." I have had that conversation with my spouse on several occasions. He asked why I was afraid so I told him. That led to him saying that he didn't interrupt or rage or blah, blah, blah. It wasn't pretty. It was kind of comical at one point because he interrupted me to rage at me because he does NOT interrupt me. He didn't like it when I calmly pointed that out. I am finally learning how to end conversations and tell him something along the lines of, "I am not going to have this conversation with you unless we can do it peacefully." (Or something like that. It takes a heck of a lot to try to have conversations without getting sucked into the madness. It takes a lot of practice and effort.)

Excerpt
For example, I just stopped by the house really quick and left.  We didn't speak.  After I left she sent me a text saying, "Can you make sure and text me next time you plan on coming home?"  I didn't respond.  This is what I refer to as her "fake boundaries" that she pulls. 

Stop right there! Boundaries are not about control. Boundaries are about protecting oneself. Asking somebody to text and let you know that you are on your way home sounds perfectly reasonable. In my experience, a lot of people with mental issues rely on predictability. To you and me, showing up unannounced may not seem like a big deal. To them, it can throw off the whole day. For example, I called my husband at lunch and he was upset and acted like his day had been ruined. I found out that somebody had parked in his parking spot. Yes, it is frustrating but it isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I grew up with parents that had a business and there was no predictability at all so little stuff like that doesn't make sense to me. It helps for me to understand my husband's need for predictability and honor that when I can rather than dismissing them as "fake boundaries". I don't have to understand another person's boundaries for them to be real.

Excerpt
A double bind if you will.  If I agree to her fake boundary she gets her control.  If I don't respect it she says that I don't respect her "boundaries."  Coming and going from my own home is not a "boundary" so I just ignored it entirely, didn't respond and I'll continue coming and going when I please.  I'm I being fair here?  When I got the text I had that sinking feeling, as if I'm being outmatched and abused by a one line text.  If I did what I felt I'd respond back with a nasty text.  I can't validate her request, no chance.  I have a lot to learn about validation.  I stopped trying, it was causing more problems than it helped. 

I am going to repeat that boundaries are NOT about control. They are about protecting oneself. Why can't you validate her need for some kind of predictability? I have seen numerous accounts of people with BPD hating surprises, even good ones. There was a thread not too long ago about how even a surprise birthday party can cause all kinds of drama. It isn't about you. This is about her need to know when somebody is going to show up at the house. Is she asking you to NOT come home or is she asking you to let her know? Big difference.
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« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM »

This is one of her big issues with me is that I don't express my feelings.  Problem is when I express my feelings she rages, gaslights, denies, rejects, etc.  So for awhile I just stopped.  My silence now is probably making her think more of the same from me.  In reality I'm just not engaging anymore.

Have you clearly expressed that to her? I know it is difficult to do. At some point, it is helpful if you can find a way to say, "You know. You are right. I don't express my feelings. I don't express my feelings because I am afraid to do it." I have had that conversation with my spouse on several occasions. He asked why I was afraid so I told him. That led to him saying that he didn't interrupt or rage or blah, blah, blah. It wasn't pretty. It was kind of comical at one point because he interrupted me to rage at me because he does NOT interrupt me. He didn't like it when I calmly pointed that out. I am finally learning how to end conversations and tell him something along the lines of, "I am not going to have this conversation with you unless we can do it peacefully." (Or something like that. It takes a heck of a lot to try to have conversations without getting sucked into the madness. It takes a lot of practice and effort.)

Excerpt
For example, I just stopped by the house really quick and left.  We didn't speak.  After I left she sent me a text saying, "Can you make sure and text me next time you plan on coming home?"  I didn't respond.  This is what I refer to as her "fake boundaries" that she pulls.  

Stop right there! Boundaries are not about control. Boundaries are about protecting oneself. Asking somebody to text and let you know that you are on your way home sounds perfectly reasonable. In my experience, a lot of people with mental issues rely on predictability. To you and me, showing up unannounced may not seem like a big deal. To them, it can throw off the whole day. For example, I called my husband at lunch and he was upset and acted like his day had been ruined. I found out that somebody had parked in his parking spot. Yes, it is frustrating but it isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I grew up with parents that had a business and there was no predictability at all so little stuff like that doesn't make sense to me. It helps for me to understand my husband's need for predictability and honor that when I can rather than dismissing them as "fake boundaries". I don't have to understand another person's boundaries for them to be real.

Excerpt
A double bind if you will.  If I agree to her fake boundary she gets her control.  If I don't respect it she says that I don't respect her "boundaries."  Coming and going from my own home is not a "boundary" so I just ignored it entirely, didn't respond and I'll continue coming and going when I please.  I'm I being fair here?  When I got the text I had that sinking feeling, as if I'm being outmatched and abused by a one line text.  If I did what I felt I'd respond back with a nasty text.  I can't validate her request, no chance.  I have a lot to learn about validation.  I stopped trying, it was causing more problems than it helped.  

I am going to repeat that boundaries are NOT about control. They are about protecting oneself. Why can't you validate her need for some kind of predictability? I have seen numerous accounts of people with BPD hating surprises, even good ones. There was a thread not too long ago about how even a surprise birthday party can cause all kinds of drama. It isn't about you. This is about her need to know when somebody is going to show up at the house. Is she asking you to NOT come home or is she asking you to let her know? Big difference.

She is aware of the reasons I don't express my feelings all the time, we discussed in therapy at length over and over like a dead horse.  I have had some conversations where I ended it because she wasn't peaceful although we are in such conflict now we don't speak.  I'm sure when it calms down we'll get back to that.  As far as fake boundaries go, I guess I never thought of it that way.  I felt it was about her trying to control me for sure, I guess you disagree.  And yes it isn't a big deal.  I texted her back and said, "I'd be happy to text you before I come home."  She replied, "Great thank you.  I don't feel like I have any privacy and that would help."   And yes she raged at me for throwing a surprise party for her last year.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2015, 05:16:11 PM »

She is aware of the reasons I don't express my feelings all the time, we discussed in therapy at length over and over like a dead horse.  I have had some conversations where I ended it because she wasn't peaceful although we are in such conflict now we don't speak.  I'm sure when it calms down we'll get back to that.

It might help to try to attempt some lighter conversation as a way to open the doors a bit. Don't do it until you think you are strong enough to put the brakes on and walk away if things aren't peaceful enough. Living like that for too long will do even more damage to the relationship and make it even harder to recover.

Excerpt
As far as fake boundaries go, I guess I never thought of it that way.  I felt it was about her trying to control me for sure, I guess you disagree.  And yes it isn't a big deal.  I texted her back and said, "I'd be happy to text you before I come home."  She replied, "Great thank you.  I don't feel like I have any privacy and that would help."   And yes she raged at me for throwing a surprise party for her last year.

When I was in the midst of the push/pull, I felt like everything my husband did was an attempt to control me. On the flip side, he felt like I was trying to control him and there were times that I did feel a bit controlling. I thought about everything in terms of him. I protested that the only person that I wanted to control was myself and that I could control myself if he would stop being such a jerk.   

I took everything personally without stopping to think that maybe it wasn't really about me at all. If your ultimate goal is to stay, then you will need to find a way to step out of that dynamic. Stop thinking about everything in terms of her and whether or not she is trying to control you. Try to assess things from a more detached standpoint. I think that is the type of detachment that has helped me most. I had to detach from the idea that this is/was all personal against me. I also had to stop and ask myself why I was doing certain things. If I am digging in my heals over something, why? Am I digging in my heals because I am in a power struggle or am I digging in my heals because this is something that is completely outside of my value system? I have been working really hard to get in touch with my own feelings rather than worrying so much about him. I can't begin to communicate my feelings to anybody if I am burying them and focusing on what my partner is doing.

It sounds like you got a good response to your text. That is progress.  Smiling (click to insert in post) This is some tough stuff to navigate.
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« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2015, 07:36:14 PM »

Best version- I'm going to hopefully add a little perspective to this. I empathize with you as living with someone with BPD can be tough- my mom was tough to live with at times. If your wife has a mother with BPD and has been abused, then she really does experience a lot of painful feelings. Right now the two of you are in a cycle of conflict. If you can try to ease this a bit on your end, it may become a bit more peaceful.

You have friends that you do things with- like hiking. Does your wife have a chance to do things with friends or for herself? I have been a SAHM and it can feel isolating- even if your wife does things with her kids' schools. I see where you felt resentful when she went to the store, but is this the only time she has to get some time to herself? This was an issue with my marriage. My H worked hard, and I stayed home. I think he assumed I was having a nice relaxing time. He felt entitled to do what he wanted when he was off- do things with friends, pursue his hobbies. If I asked him to watch the kids, he would tell me it wasn't fair- that I had all day to myself. I love being with my kids, but I did lose my sense of self when I had no other outlets. I remember my H resenting me going to the store. I did not actually get much time to myself until my children were older.

For someone with a shaky sense of self, being a SAHM doesn't give you much validation. I looked to my H for that, and he was too resentful to give it. This may be part of why your wife feels bitter and also why she works so hard at school projects as a sense of self esteem. You are probably too angry now to put yourself in her shoes.

Growing up, I thought my mom was the crazy one- and she did have her share of behavior issues. It was not until I was older that I realized how invalidating her own family of origin was to her and how invalidated she felt with my father who was successful in his field, and nobody considered being a housewife to be anything special. She had a lot of rage and anger from her childhood and also from not feeling recognized for anything she did whether that was actually true or not. It felt true to her.
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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2015, 07:57:58 PM »

My hopes in posting another perspective is not to make one of you right or one wrong but in hopes that it may make some space for you to feel some empathy.

My H and I were in a high conflict cycle when we went to marriage T. One point she made towards diffusing it a little was that she hoped we would stay together, but in the case that we did not, we would still benefit from getting out of the cycle of conflict. Although we still have things to work on, it is better to not be in that angry place as much as we were and there are no plans to not stay together.
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« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2015, 08:07:41 PM »

She is aware of the reasons I don't express my feelings all the time, we discussed in therapy at length over and over like a dead horse.  I have had some conversations where I ended it because she wasn't peaceful although we are in such conflict now we don't speak.  I'm sure when it calms down we'll get back to that.

It might help to try to attempt some lighter conversation as a way to open the doors a bit. Don't do it until you think you are strong enough to put the brakes on and walk away if things aren't peaceful enough. Living like that for too long will do even more damage to the relationship and make it even harder to recover.

Excerpt
As far as fake boundaries go, I guess I never thought of it that way.  I felt it was about her trying to control me for sure, I guess you disagree.  And yes it isn't a big deal.  I texted her back and said, "I'd be happy to text you before I come home."  She replied, "Great thank you.  I don't feel like I have any privacy and that would help."   And yes she raged at me for throwing a surprise party for her last year.

When I was in the midst of the push/pull, I felt like everything my husband did was an attempt to control me. On the flip side, he felt like I was trying to control him and there were times that I did feel a bit controlling. I thought about everything in terms of him. I protested that the only person that I wanted to control was myself and that I could control myself if he would stop being such a jerk.   

I took everything personally without stopping to think that maybe it wasn't really about me at all. If your ultimate goal is to stay, then you will need to find a way to step out of that dynamic. Stop thinking about everything in terms of her and whether or not she is trying to control you. Try to assess things from a more detached standpoint. I think that is the type of detachment that has helped me most. I had to detach from the idea that this is/was all personal against me. I also had to stop and ask myself why I was doing certain things. If I am digging in my heals over something, why? Am I digging in my heals because I am in a power struggle or am I digging in my heals because this is something that is completely outside of my value system? I have been working really hard to get in touch with my own feelings rather than worrying so much about him. I can't begin to communicate my feelings to anybody if I am burying them and focusing on what my partner is doing.

It sounds like you got a good response to your text. That is progress.  Smiling (click to insert in post) This is some tough stuff to navigate.

Agree on all.  Every word, every text, every email is carefully analyzed by me to see the hidden meaning.  Sometimes there is none, other times it doesn't matter, other times it really is something controlling and abusive.  You are correct about not being in touch with my feelings.  I don't even know what I feel sometimes.  Anger?  Grief?  Everything in my life over time began to take into account her feelings, or presumed feelings.  I can heal though and I will heal.  I see little changes already and I have to keep putting in the work and improve .01% every day. 
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BestVersionOfMe
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« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2015, 08:11:49 PM »

Best version- I'm going to hopefully add a little perspective to this. I empathize with you as living with someone with BPD can be tough- my mom was tough to live with at times. If your wife has a mother with BPD and has been abused, then she really does experience a lot of painful feelings. Right now the two of you are in a cycle of conflict. If you can try to ease this a bit on your end, it may become a bit more peaceful.

You have friends that you do things with- like hiking. Does your wife have a chance to do things with friends or for herself? I have been a SAHM and it can feel isolating- even if your wife does things with her kids' schools. I see where you felt resentful when she went to the store, but is this the only time she has to get some time to herself? This was an issue with my marriage. My H worked hard, and I stayed home. I think he assumed I was having a nice relaxing time. He felt entitled to do what he wanted when he was off- do things with friends, pursue his hobbies. If I asked him to watch the kids, he would tell me it wasn't fair- that I had all day to myself. I love being with my kids, but I did lose my sense of self when I had no other outlets. I remember my H resenting me going to the store. I did not actually get much time to myself until my children were older.

For someone with a shaky sense of self, being a SAHM doesn't give you much validation. I looked to my H for that, and he was too resentful to give it. This may be part of why your wife feels bitter and also why she works so hard at school projects as a sense of self esteem. You are probably too angry now to put yourself in her shoes.

Growing up, I thought my mom was the crazy one- and she did have her share of behavior issues. It was not until I was older that I realized how invalidating her own family of origin was to her and how invalidated she felt with my father who was successful in his field, and nobody considered being a housewife to be anything special. She had a lot of rage and anger from her childhood and also from not feeling recognized for anything she did whether that was actually true or not. It felt true to her.

As I mentioned above my wife has many friends and activities.  She runs, works out, hikes.  Kids are 10, 8, and 4 and are mostly at school and the rest of the time I'm very hands on as well.  I go running and hiking and hang out all the time too.  I agree that my wife needs validation.  I struggle with the "when" part of validation.  Sometimes when I validate she uses it against me and rages ever harder so I'll need to come up with a plan as it relates to this skill.  My Dad was invalidating and disrespectful and I think that is why I hate it so much when my wife does it.  Lastly I think much of the misplaced anger towards me is really meant for her mother.  She has never dealt with that or come to terms with her abusive controlling mother.  I hope she does some day. 
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2015, 08:52:14 PM »

Agree on all.  Every word, every text, every email is carefully analyzed by me to see the hidden meaning.  Sometimes there is none, other times it doesn't matter, other times it really is something controlling and abusive.  You are correct about not being in touch with my feelings.  I don't even know what I feel sometimes.  Anger?  Grief?  Everything in my life over time began to take into account her feelings, or presumed feelings.  I can heal though and I will heal.  I see little changes already and I have to keep putting in the work and improve .01% every day. 

Instead of starting with the relationship or what she is doing, start with YOU. What do you value? What do you want? What do you think? What do you feel? I am having to re-establish my point of reference and retrain my thinking. 

Before you can reach out to her or try to do anything with her, you need to figure out what it is that you want and where it is that you want to go with the relationship. You have said that you can't really leave. I get that. I couldn't leave either. That makes for a very difficult road to travel. I read about all of these people that are doing therapeutic separations but that is not possible. I felt like my choices were to find ways to be more peaceful or be miserable. I don't want to be miserable. I have been on just about every board there is and I am making a choice to stay for now. I see small improvements. I have to remind myself that it took 15 or so years to get into this mess, it is going to take time to get out of it. 
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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2015, 05:55:16 AM »

It's good that both of you have outlets. Yes, growing up with a mom with BPD is tough. It would make sense that your wife feels anger about that.  I'm not sure what was going on with my H's dad, but he was a critical, invalidating man who   did emotionally damage to my H. It doesn't seem fair that my H blamed me for the feelings his dad created.

However, I did benefit personally from doing my own work on my issues and indirectly, the conflict in my relationship got better- by becoming less reactive to my H, I don't trigger him as much, and things don't escalate as much when I do.
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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2015, 09:02:27 AM »

Agree on all.  Every word, every text, every email is carefully analyzed by me to see the hidden meaning.  Sometimes there is none, other times it doesn't matter, other times it really is something controlling and abusive.  You are correct about not being in touch with my feelings.  I don't even know what I feel sometimes.  Anger?  Grief?  Everything in my life over time began to take into account her feelings, or presumed feelings.  I can heal though and I will heal.  I see little changes already and I have to keep putting in the work and improve .01% every day. 

Instead of starting with the relationship or what she is doing, start with YOU. What do you value? What do you want? What do you think? What do you feel? I am having to re-establish my point of reference and retrain my thinking. 

Before you can reach out to her or try to do anything with her, you need to figure out what it is that you want and where it is that you want to go with the relationship. You have said that you can't really leave. I get that. I couldn't leave either. That makes for a very difficult road to travel. I read about all of these people that are doing therapeutic separations but that is not possible. I felt like my choices were to find ways to be more peaceful or be miserable. I don't want to be miserable. I have been on just about every board there is and I am making a choice to stay for now. I see small improvements. I have to remind myself that it took 15 or so years to get into this mess, it is going to take time to get out of it. 

Yes changes take time and what I've found out is the BPDs change very, very slowly.  They have so many complicated defense mechanisms that it isn't that possible for them to just jump on a forum and figure things out.  In fact the same mechanism that causes much of this is the same one that would prevent them from even seeing any issues.  The changes come sub-consciously for the most part, in my opinion.
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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2015, 09:06:35 AM »

It's good that both of you have outlets. Yes, growing up with a mom with BPD is tough. It would make sense that your wife feels anger about that.  I'm not sure what was going on with my H's dad, but he was a critical, invalidating man who   did emotionally damage to my H. It doesn't seem fair that my H blamed me for the feelings his dad created.

However, I did benefit personally from doing my own work on my issues and indirectly, the conflict in my relationship got better- by becoming less reactive to my H, I don't trigger him as much, and things don't escalate as much when I do.

Invalidation and being critical is abuse.  No doubt about it.  At this moment wife is nagging and being disrespectful with kids to get them ready for school.  She just doesn't get it and never has.  She just can't or won't be respectful.  They don't respond or listen to her because of how she speaks to them.  It is that simple, but she gets herself all worked up in the morning over nothing.  It is just her way, her reality.  I can't change her, but I do know that I need and want a respectful household and the only way I can do that is to lead and be respectful in all my interactions with her and the kids.  It just bugs the crap out of me that someone never learns from anything.  Lots of talking, little action, that is what I see in this borderline.  If you just followed through a few times things would be so much easier for you wifey, but you simply never do and the kids know it. 
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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2015, 09:39:58 AM »

Yes changes take time and what I've found out is the BPDs change very, very slowly.  They have so many complicated defense mechanisms that it isn't that possible for them to just jump on a forum and figure things out.  In fact the same mechanism that causes much of this is the same one that would prevent them from even seeing any issues.  The changes come sub-consciously for the most part, in my opinion.

We have defense mechanisms too.  Smiling (click to insert in post) I can be very defensive in my own way. I missed it because I was so caught up in what my husband was doing. I think a lot of changes for me have been on a more sub-conscious level. I have all of this stuff going on in my conscious mind that I am actively working on and thinking about but there is stuff that is going on underneath it all that I get tiny glimpses of here and there.
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« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2015, 09:49:04 AM »

Invalidation and being critical is abuse.  No doubt about it. 

Further up in the thread, you mentioned that you were having a hard time validating your wife. Instead of starting with validating her, can you try to identify ways that you are invalidating her? Have you tried to pay attention and see if you are being critical towards her? I would have denied that I was invalidating or critical. I worked really, really hard to be nice to him. On the surface, I was. Underneath all of that, there was a cesspool of resentment that I had bubbling up under the surface. It is lessening with time and I have gotten better at not letting it bubble up but it still does from time to time and that makes our interactions more difficult.

Excerpt
At this moment wife is nagging and being disrespectful with kids to get them ready for school.  She just doesn't get it and never has.  She just can't or won't be respectful.  They don't respond or listen to her because of how she speaks to them.  It is that simple, but she gets herself all worked up in the morning over nothing.  It is just her way, her reality. 

I could have written this about my husband. Is she aware the impact her behavior is having on the kids? The things that my girls have said about their dad makes me really sad. I had to deal with an issue when I came in from work last night because he tends to underreact/ignore or overreact and be a jerk. 

Excerpt
It just bugs the crap out of me that someone never learns from anything.  Lots of talking, little action, that is what I see in this borderline.  If you just followed through a few times things would be so much easier for you wifey, but you simply never do and the kids know it. 

I am right there with you on this one. I have gotten mad and told my husband, "I don't want to talk about this any more. I want to see you actually do something. Don't tell me anything." For the longest time, I was confused because he would say all of the right things. It would seem like we were on the right page. We would have these marathon talking sessions and I would walk away feeling great. I would feel like, "Wow, he heard me this time." Then, days and weeks and months would go by and nothing would change.
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« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2015, 02:04:35 PM »

Invalidation and being critical is abuse.  No doubt about it. 

Further up in the thread, you mentioned that you were having a hard time validating your wife. Instead of starting with validating her, can you try to identify ways that you are invalidating her? Have you tried to pay attention and see if you are being critical towards her? I would have denied that I was invalidating or critical. I worked really, really hard to be nice to him. On the surface, I was. Underneath all of that, there was a cesspool of resentment that I had bubbling up under the surface. It is lessening with time and I have gotten better at not letting it bubble up but it still does from time to time and that makes our interactions more difficult.

Excerpt
At this moment wife is nagging and being disrespectful with kids to get them ready for school.  She just doesn't get it and never has.  She just can't or won't be respectful.  They don't respond or listen to her because of how she speaks to them.  It is that simple, but she gets herself all worked up in the morning over nothing.  It is just her way, her reality. 

I could have written this about my husband. Is she aware the impact her behavior is having on the kids? The things that my girls have said about their dad makes me really sad. I had to deal with an issue when I came in from work last night because he tends to underreact/ignore or overreact and be a jerk. 

Excerpt
It just bugs the crap out of me that someone never learns from anything.  Lots of talking, little action, that is what I see in this borderline.  If you just followed through a few times things would be so much easier for you wifey, but you simply never do and the kids know it. 

I am right there with you on this one. I have gotten mad and told my husband, "I don't want to talk about this any more. I want to see you actually do something. Don't tell me anything." For the longest time, I was confused because he would say all of the right things. It would seem like we were on the right page. We would have these marathon talking sessions and I would walk away feeling great. I would feel like, "Wow, he heard me this time." Then, days and weeks and months would go by and nothing would change.

I have backed way off being critical.  It pains me because things are so much simpler than how she makes them and I get irritated that she doesn't take the path of least resistance and so I used to be critical.  Not so much anymore, I try to avoid that at all times, but because I used to do it, she thinks my silence is still being critical and judgmental. 

Is my wife aware of her impact on the kids?  I don't think so, at least she'd never admit it.  She does want to be positive and respectful but gets so full of anxiety she can't help herself.  She is better than before though. 

Borderlines must be notorious about being all talk.  I think they have to because much of their identity isn't real, it is made up and the way to hide it is to talk a lot and project and divert other's from learning truth.  Your husband probably doesn't even realize it. 

Anyways, today is a new day.  I choose to be happy.  I'm gonna go get some healthy soup.  I ran for 40 mins today.  I'm gonna work until the job is done and come home when I want.  Maybe I'll bring home dinner to make things easy on everybody or we can go out to dinner.  At this moment I'm happy and intend to stay that way.
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« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2015, 04:01:55 PM »

Ok so just transferred a crap load of money into our account to pay bills.  Every single bill we have has been paid for and it is the 18th of the month, which never happens.  There has been some struggles here and there but all in all we've been in the same house for over 12 years, never went hungry, always took vacations, etc.  So my wife has been checking our online account to see where I spend money.  She saw a $30 charge at a Chinese place cause I met my buddy, his 1 year son, and his mom for lunch.  I answered the question via text.  Then she asked for a login for another account, one that only she uses for some reason, but nevertheless I feel a bit controlled.  Last night asked me why I was friends with my son's teacher on Facebook.  One is attractive and one is not, but she didn't mention anything about the other one.  This is the second Facebook friend question she had in the last two weeks.  This is the first time I started to revise how I am choosing to view these concerns.  It shows major insecurities about money and apparently about other woman.  I've always been faithful but I really think my wife is legitimately paranoid about what I'm doing with my free time, not trying to control me as I've always felt.  She is demanding a lot about a lot of things and every time she has done it I've felt she was trying to control me or just be rude, but maybe, just maybe that isn't what it is about.  Maybe she is truly insecure, paranoid, and afraid I'm gonna leave her.  When she is raging or sending awful texts she sends a completely different image that makes me feel like she is completely done with me.  Thoughts?
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« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2015, 08:39:04 PM »

She saw a $30 charge at a Chinese place cause I met my buddy, his 1 year son, and his mom for lunch.  I answered the question via text. 

It is good that she is keeping track of the charges on the account. It is so easy for somebody to get your card number and make false charges. I tend to go over my statements with a fine tooth comb and make sure that all of the charges are accounted for because I don't want to be double charged or miss something in the event that somebody has used my card or number without permission. What would make this annoying is if she did it in an accusatory or snotty manner. If it was all pretty matter of fact, then it could be a matter of being an aware consumer. No need to look for trouble where there is none. (Reminding myself too as I know I have gone down that road and still do from time to time.)

Excerpt
Then she asked for a login for another account, one that only she uses for some reason, but nevertheless I feel a bit controlled. 

If it is her account that she uses, then she needs to be responsible for keeping up with the log in information. Something that I am trying to do a better job of is letting/making my husband be responsible for HIS stuff. When he comes to me for stuff like that, I feel controlled a bit because I feel like I am being put in the role of parent rather than wife/partner. I don't know if that applies to you or not but it is something to think about.

Excerpt
Last night asked me why I was friends with my son's teacher on Facebook.  One is attractive and one is not, but she didn't mention anything about the other one.  This is the second Facebook friend question she had in the last two weeks. 

Is she friend with your son's teacher? If both of you are friends with both teachers, then it can easily be turned around as, "Why are you friends with the teacher?" If she isn't friends with the teacher, why not? FB is a touchy subject for me because I don't mind answer questions that are pretty innocent/meaningless. Asking "I see you added so and so on FB, who is that?" is quite a bit different than asking a loaded question with a bit of attitude. For example, I would post articles or silly stuff and my husband would get upset and think that I trying to be passive aggressive or target him. I will admit that there are times that I did. Most of the time, what I posted had absolutely nothing to do with him yet he would see it as invalidating or me picking on him. So, I unfriended him for a while because I was not going to have every single thing I did online questioned, analyzed, and pretty much held up for scrutiny.

Excerpt
This is the first time I started to revise how I am choosing to view these concerns.  It shows major insecurities about money and apparently about other woman. . . . When she is raging or sending awful texts she sends a completely different image that makes me feel like she is completely done with me.  Thoughts?

Yep, they have a fear of abandonment and are typically very insecure. I have read a lot about the different characteristics to get a better grip on things and realize that this isn't about me. They can be controlling but the controlling behavior is due to the fact that they feel so out of control. When somebody feels out of control, they tend to want to control everything around them. That could explain why you and your wife both feel like the other is being controlling. I have seen that dynamic in my relationship and I have seen other people talk about it as well.

It is good to see the positive side of this and have compassion. Be leery of having so much compassion for her that you forget to have compassion for yourself. Make sure that you know where your values are and what you can realistically tolerate so that you create boundaries to protect yourself from her unpredictability. One of the senior member said something to me one time about trying to figure out how to find some predictability in the unpredictable.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Posts: 268


« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2015, 09:19:48 AM »

She saw a $30 charge at a Chinese place cause I met my buddy, his 1 year son, and his mom for lunch.  I answered the question via text. 

It is good that she is keeping track of the charges on the account. It is so easy for somebody to get your card number and make false charges. I tend to go over my statements with a fine tooth comb and make sure that all of the charges are accounted for because I don't want to be double charged or miss something in the event that somebody has used my card or number without permission. What would make this annoying is if she did it in an accusatory or snotty manner. If it was all pretty matter of fact, then it could be a matter of being an aware consumer. No need to look for trouble where there is none. (Reminding myself too as I know I have gone down that road and still do from time to time.)

Excerpt
Then she asked for a login for another account, one that only she uses for some reason, but nevertheless I feel a bit controlled. 

If it is her account that she uses, then she needs to be responsible for keeping up with the log in information. Something that I am trying to do a better job of is letting/making my husband be responsible for HIS stuff. When he comes to me for stuff like that, I feel controlled a bit because I feel like I am being put in the role of parent rather than wife/partner. I don't know if that applies to you or not but it is something to think about.

Excerpt
Last night asked me why I was friends with my son's teacher on Facebook.  One is attractive and one is not, but she didn't mention anything about the other one.  This is the second Facebook friend question she had in the last two weeks. 

Is she friend with your son's teacher? If both of you are friends with both teachers, then it can easily be turned around as, "Why are you friends with the teacher?" If she isn't friends with the teacher, why not? FB is a touchy subject for me because I don't mind answer questions that are pretty innocent/meaningless. Asking "I see you added so and so on FB, who is that?" is quite a bit different than asking a loaded question with a bit of attitude. For example, I would post articles or silly stuff and my husband would get upset and think that I trying to be passive aggressive or target him. I will admit that there are times that I did. Most of the time, what I posted had absolutely nothing to do with him yet he would see it as invalidating or me picking on him. So, I unfriended him for a while because I was not going to have every single thing I did online questioned, analyzed, and pretty much held up for scrutiny.

Excerpt
This is the first time I started to revise how I am choosing to view these concerns.  It shows major insecurities about money and apparently about other woman. . . . When she is raging or sending awful texts she sends a completely different image that makes me feel like she is completely done with me.  Thoughts?

Yep, they have a fear of abandonment and are typically very insecure. I have read a lot about the different characteristics to get a better grip on things and realize that this isn't about me. They can be controlling but the controlling behavior is due to the fact that they feel so out of control. When somebody feels out of control, they tend to want to control everything around them. That could explain why you and your wife both feel like the other is being controlling. I have seen that dynamic in my relationship and I have seen other people talk about it as well.

It is good to see the positive side of this and have compassion. Be leery of having so much compassion for her that you forget to have compassion for yourself. Make sure that you know where your values are and what you can realistically tolerate so that you create boundaries to protect yourself from her unpredictability. One of the senior member said something to me one time about trying to figure out how to find some predictability in the unpredictable.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

You seem pretty objective about all of this and seeing the silver lining.  I felt all of these behaviors had a meaning behind it.  The checking of ccard charges seemed to be her checking up on me, not watching our expenses.  At least that is how I took it.  As far as FB goes, I just don't know.  She isn't friends with the teacher.  You know that thing that pops up that says, "You should be friends with so and so?"  I always click on the people I know.  Doesn't matter if it is male or female, so the fact that she has pointed out two attractive women that I'm now friends with made it feel like it had to do with her thinking I'm fooling around.

Our mutual friend last night asked me to see if I'd be willing to go back to our MC again last night.  I responded with something probably over the top.  I said, "What good would that do?  She is done, I'm done and unless my wife plans on learning to become a respectful person that isn't angry, raging, and disrespectful then I have no desire to be with her.  She has to win me back, not the other way around.  I know who I am, I'm a great guy, and there are plenty of woman that want a good man.  Do I love her?  Yes, but the days are numbered.  Otherwise, get out, the kids and I don't need you."  Don't know if she sent it to my wife or not, but it was my true feelings and I'm sick of this bull___ and rudeness.  Last night at dinner was polite and ok.  We came home and had a glass of wine and then she went to bed.  My highs and lows are just too much.  I was feeling great about us yesterday afternoon, and then her friend coming to me and asking me to go pursue MC just set me off.  Where does my wife get off telling her friend to tell me to go do the work?  She is out of her mind.  I make all the money, I'm the better parent, I and respectful and nice and I get NOTHING in return.  Yet she wants me to go do the work on the marriage?  That is all I've been doing for 3 years.  When is she gonna put in the effort?
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