Too much SET?

[Jessica84]

Help me understand... .

My uBPDbf is an emotional yo-yo lately. He has become so vulnerable and fragile. Is it too much SET? Is there such a thing? am I doing it wrong? It's like some kind of floodgate has opened and he's sharing every feeling he has now - the good, the bad, and the ugly. Mostly about his depression and how hopeless he feels. He's suddenly very needy. And more erratic than usual.

He invited me to go out of town with him yesterday. Valentine's Day means about as much to me as groundhog day but it means a lot to him so I was willing. He seemed excited about taking a trip so I was happy to go along and started packing a few things. Uninvited me a few minutes later. Ok, no big deal.

An hour later, texted me I should find another man. That he's a horrible bf. I sort of ignored that. When he said he had to go, I said "ok have a good day." He replied "please don't abandon me" 

He kept texting all day about his depression. I validated the best I could. Another few hours later, something about quitting his job. Later in the day, invited me over like nothing happened. He perked up when I got there. I asked him about his job, he smiled and said "oh that was 5 hours ago". Ohhhhh... .ancient history I guess... .

A year ago all this insanity would've wrecked me. Barely felt a blip on my radar.

But I am worried about him. And it's a little exhausting. What's happening to him? This is whack-a-doodle off the charts even for him. Did I open up the floodgates? Isn't this generally a bad idea? I'm not a therapist and half the time have no clue what I'm doing! The one thing I hope I've done right is using the fact that he listens to me to encourage him back into therapy, which he's going tomorrow. He texted me awhile ago saying he's looking forward to getting some help. Finally. Maybe. We'll see... .

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[waverider]

I have been through this, it is not a bad thing as long as you stay consistent and caring.

Because you are caring and are appearing not critical to him, he is letting his defenses down. The floodgates open uncontrollably. This leaves him feeling vulnerable, letting out admissions which he even hid from himself. The result of this outpouring is a feeling of worthlessness and exposure. The push pull cycle is put into action as that is his only defense against vulnerability.

What this says is that you have become more available to him. This is new and scary for him. Take that as a compliment. Does it make you feel better that you are not imploding with all this contradictory behavior?

If you are feeling better and more stable, that is the benchmark of progress.

[Jessica84]

Waverider - I feel fine. Seems all the tools I've learned here have helped me a great deal... .but he seems to be getting more depressed.

He's gone silent now. Probably a good thing? I worry talking to me opens him up to all those uncomfortable feelings. Before, when he acted like this I just got mad and made things worse. But now I'm wondering if I've made things worse for HIM?

Isn't being this vulnerable a bad thing for pwBPD? Or is it progress?

His T is either absolutely useless... or he didn't tell the T everything. All the doc said was to give the meds more time. Sigh. 

[waverider]

Waverider - I feel fine. Seems all the tools I've learned here have helped me a great deal... .but he seems to be getting more depressed.

He's gone silent now. Probably a good thing? I worry talking to me opens him up to all those uncomfortable feelings. Before, when he acted like this I just got mad and made things worse. But now I'm wondering if I've made things worse for HIM?

Isn't being this vulnerable a bad thing for pwBPD? Or is it progress?

His T is either absolutely useless... or he didn't tell the T everything. All the doc said was to give the meds more time. Sigh. 

I think it is a case of things get worse for them before they can get better. You not getting drawn into the chaos cuts off their coping by projection method. This forces a degree of ownership of their issues, they can turn this inward. Functionality drops as they feel 'raw' and incapable. It is step between coping by buck passing and realizing the need for doing it for themselves.

My RS is pretty good these days, I am no longer labelled as the "enemy" even under stress, but my partners "functionality" is very low. The bad coping mechanisms have been stripped away. Now it is the long haul of building new ones.

Keep in mind they are not recovering, they are reinventing, as they are trying to become someone they have no experience of being. It is a very hard road to travel. especially for someone with low self belief.

[maxsterling]

I have a theory on this, after experiencing pretty much the same as you have.

Prior to meeting me, my wife went from job to job, country to country, boyfriend to boyfriend (and girlfriend).  That was her coping mechanism.  It was okay to stay hidden, blame others, and not really look at herself.  

Now she meets me.  A relatively stable person, who makes more careful decisions, doesn't yell or curse, is happy, and doesn't spend all day complaining about things.  I am patient.  She tries to rattle me, bait me, and get me to respond in ways she is used to.  I don't, and that confuses her.  After enough stability from me, it forces her to look at herself.  The normal cycle is for her to get angry and paint me black, me to respond by disengaging, and her to eventually come into a shame/self aware mode where she wonders what is wrong with her.  

I think that is what is going on here.  Your relative stability has challenged his view of the universe, and is now forced to look at himself.  

[Jessica84]

So is this a good thing? I can't tell. I feel the same as Max. Like I confuse him and cause him to look inside and not like what he sees. He can't paint me black so he paints himself black?

Here's what concerns me... a text from him the other day... ."I can't be with people. I don't want to be with myself. I am sick of being with me. I cannot explain it. I am not feeling sorry for myself. I hate self pity. I hate it. I hate me. Sorry. I wish I could explain better but I can't. I can't talk about it. When I try to talk I just get mad."

It goes on an on like this... .only person I know who sends paragraphs in a text!

[maxsterling]

It goes on an on like this... .only person I know who sends paragraphs in a text!

My wife does.  She will type away in text messages so long you have to scroll to get through one message.  And when she does this to her dad, he replies "no need to get verbose" and then she flips her lid.

And regarding the tone of the message you received - pretty typical for what I hear from my wife almost daily.  I can't say it is a good thing or not, only that I think one must go through this stage before actually improving in any meaningful way.  My wife is constantly on her own case, how much pain she is in, wants to die, sees no point in living, hates herself... .etc... .etc... .  But I have noticed within the last month or two she is taking more effort in turning it around by doing more than just watch TV or sulk endlessly.  A year ago, she would not have done anything on her own to help herself.  Now, after a day or two of self loathing, she catches herself and gets herself out of the house to do something productive like yoga. 

[Jessica84]

He's trying but mostly feels hopeless. If even the slightest thing goes wrong, he adds it to this "list", you know the one? Where they start listing EVERYTHING that's wrong with their lives?

He hasn't told very many people about his depression. He's afraid it could hurt business - right now the only thing distracting him from it. But he hasn't told his family either. He said he's having to "wear a happy mask" and "fake it" for everyone around him. Interesting choice of words.

He's gone silent on me now. I guess I should hang back and be there if he needs support?

[maxsterling]

He's trying but mostly feels hopeless. If even the slightest thing goes wrong, he adds it to this "list", you know the one? Where they start listing EVERYTHING that's wrong with their lives?

Oh yeah.  Every few weeks she recites this to me.  How her life is miserable, she deserves nobody, how she should be alone, how she has no friends, how she should have never moved back from a foreign country, how she has no money, can't work, too fat, and in too much chronic pain.  Oh, and that she doesn't have a child. 

He's gone silent on me now. I guess I should hang back and be there if he needs support?

that's really the only thing you can do.  Sometimes after a bout of silence I try a "test" to gauge her mood - offering her something simple like a glass of water if we are at home together, or send her a cute photo or a "how is your day going" message to her phone.  If she responds kindly, I may attempt further communication.  If coldly, I back off.

[ColdEthyl]

Hello, Jessica! Oh wow. My H doesn't do this to that extreme, but I have noticed the past year since using the tools... .he's coming clean with some things. He kind of reminds me of a groundhog... .he will have a clear thought and announce it... .then he 'sees his shadow' and quickly retreats back into projecting.

Like the other day, after years of living with me and my schizophrenic brother, my H finally says to me "You know... .if I can't hang out in the living room because he's in there... .that's not really is fault. That's mine." I about fell out of my chair. I took his hand and I told him I was proud of him and how hard that must have been for him to say that.

It lasted all of 20 seconds before he reverted back to some of the same ol' rhetoric. But... .it was there, dang it. I heard it.

[Jessica84]

Wow. Almost the same list!

Once I realized what I was doing and stopped Invalidating him, it's like the feelings have been pouring out of him. He cries, he talks about shame, embarrassment, guilt, depression, anger... the whole enchilada. Which I guess is good that he trusts me, but is that really good for him?

I keep feeling like all this validation stuff hasn't helped, maybe made things worse? I've been careful not to validate the invalid, but at one point it was like he couldn't get enough it! Like a thirsty child. Now he HAS to know what I think about everything, like suddenly, he doesn't know what HE thinks or feels anymore.

He asked me to look at emails before he sent them - were they too nice? too rude? make sense? should he send it? should he wait? should he call instead? should he cut this part out or add this? what do I think? do I know how he feels? should he feel that way? is he wrong to feel that way? would I? do I think he is crazy to think this, or feel that? Is it ok to feel that way? is it ok to be sad? Would I feel sad? 

These are all real questions and he's never been like this before. The need for validation seems to be growing, and growing... .that's why I was wondering if there was such a thing as too much SET? Did he get so hooked on it he doesn't know how to think/feel himself anymore? His sudden need for validation makes me wonder how sudden it is. Has he been needing this all his life and never experienced getting it before? Will it level off?

I'm guessing that's why he's gone silent... he's GOT to be overwhelmed by all of this. What he feels inside would overwhelm anyone.

[Jessica84]

Hilarious ColdEthyl. Love the groundhog reference... .

Yes, moments of clarity! I have a similar story. I referred a client to him over the weekend. He turned off his TV at home to take this person's call. When he tried to turn it back on, it wouldn't work. He was mad at the guy for breaking his TV! Probably me, too because later out of the blue, he said "it's not your fault the TV broke... "  Gee... .really?

[ColdEthyl]

ROFLMAO!

[waverider]

Wow. Almost the same list!

Once I realized what I was doing and stopped Invalidating him, it's like the feelings have been pouring out of him. He cries, he talks about shame, embarrassment, guilt, depression, anger... the whole enchilada. Which I guess is good that he trusts me, but is that really good for him?

I keep feeling like all this validation stuff hasn't helped, maybe made things worse? I've been careful not to validate the invalid, but at one point it was like he couldn't get enough it! Like a thirsty child. Now he HAS to know what I think about everything, like suddenly, he doesn't know what HE thinks or feels anymore.

He asked me to look at emails before he sent them - were they too nice? too rude? make sense? should he send it? should he wait? should he call instead? should he cut this part out or add this? what do I think? do I know how he feels? should he feel that way? is he wrong to feel that way? would I? do I think he is crazy to think this, or feel that? Is it ok to feel that way? is it ok to be sad? Would I feel sad?  

These are all real questions and he's never been like this before. The need for validation seems to be growing, and growing... .that's why I was wondering if there was such a thing as too much SET? Did he get so hooked on it he doesn't know how to think/feel himself anymore? His sudden need for validation makes me wonder how sudden it is. Has he been needing this all his life and never experienced getting it before? Will it level off?

I'm guessing that's why he's gone silent... he's GOT to be overwhelmed by all of this. What he feels inside would overwhelm anyone.

SET is not an answer in itself. It is part of not making things worse. When he is constantly trying to handball decisions onto you (ie passing responsibility), rather than simply solving his problems ask him what he thinks is options are and what would seem right to him. That is guide him to provide his own solution. Otherwise as you say he will just handball it all to you, and even start the mirroring process.

They dont really know what the stand for, so rather than bluffing through as before they are avoiding responsibility. This is were you have to be careful of not allowing the rescuer in you getting over triggered. As you say it will drain you, and you will fuel a need that you can't fulfill

[Jessica84]

Thanks waverider. I see what you're saying. I do try very hard with that. I don't answer all his questions. I do a lot of listening, mostly. He talks so much he barely waits for a response anyway! Sometimes I get impatient, sometimes I say the wrong thing... .

But the validation is constant! He called tonight. I patiently listen while he tells me about his day but then start to get hungry... .I told him in a casual tone I haven't eaten all day and needed to get something. He got upset, almost angry. I told him I wasn't cutting him off - I'm on my cell phone so please keep talking while I go pick something up. I'm here, I'm listening.

He calmed down, kept talking. Is it really invalidating to say you're hungry? I mean, a girl's gotta eat sometimes!

[waverider]

He calmed down, kept talking. Is it really invalidating to say you're hungry? I mean, a girl's gotta eat sometimes!

pwBPD make up excuses to fob people off all the time. It is their world, why would he not suspect you are likewise fobbing him off.  It is at times like this we can go into JADE, which reinforces the covering up suspicion, because this is exactly what they do when they are covering up.

In your example if you had reversed the sentences and assured him you are still there first, then that you were getting something to eat he would have jumped to the conclusion you were trying to hang up.

[Jessica84]

Now I see why he got upset thinking I was "fobbing him off" earlier... .he had so much more to say... .

He just called me back all upset. Told me what T said in more detail. He said he's felt so "off" that he asked the T if he was bipolar? T says no, NOTHING wrong with him. Just depression. Didn't test him for anything. Gave no recommendation for continued therapy... .only to give the meds more time. Really? Suicide ideation, depression, self harm, fears of abandonment, emotional as hell, and he's told this is standard depression? Just give the meds more time?

He told me all weekend the only hope he had was knowing he had an appointment on Monday. It's all he had.

Validation and drugs can only do so much... .

He thinks he's going crazy - he's desperate to understand what's wrong with him, and desperate to get help. He said he's looked into checking into a mental facility. But now he's confused by what the T said. I don't know what to do anymore. Or what to say. All I could muster is I'll support whatever you decide to do. 

[waverider]

He told me all weekend the only hope he had was knowing he had an appointment on Monday. It's all he had.

I hate this aspect holding out for a T appointment, almost like it will be a magic pill, which it wont be. Setting himself up for disappointment. My partner has always did this this, the ensuing disappointment stops her from continuing, reinforcing the failure.

[Jessica84]

I hear that, but pwBPD don't know any better. I hate the drug pushing medical industry more. Irresponsible.

I may have to call the suicide hotline. He sounds absolutely hopeless.