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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Son wants to buy vehicle  (Read 653 times)
whirlpoollife
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« on: February 16, 2015, 12:16:52 AM »

S16 wants to buy a vehicle,  one that needs restored.  S has worked and saved his money, plus he has  some birthday money saved from my mom.  I am custodian for his account . It's in my name and S's name because he is a minor.   I am not for S buying this vehicle as it is a money pit for him as this age.   His dad took him to see this vehicle and now  dad is going to take S to pick up this vehicle as it is some miles away.  S says the title is going into dads name because dad said so. I say no it goes in S name. I hear nothing from dad, my x2bh.  X2bh owes 6k in back support.  He doesn't want to pay the $100 reimbursement medical expenses that was for the entire year last year  for both kids. I paid over 500.

I'm in a legal battle in court because he wants support from me.  I'm 99% sure he got himself unemployed.

S is sticking up for dad here because dad is pushing to get this vehicle. S upset with me.

What do I do. How much can I say to S with out badmouthing dad, which I am on the verge of. I have to be so careful as x2bh chumed up the kids GAL.
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2015, 04:27:24 PM »

In this case, unless the money is being put away for educational expenses, S16 may be old enough to learn a tough lesson. Though it's inexcusable that your exH hasn't fulfilled monetary obligations to you, I see that as a separate issue.  If he wants to put his name on the title, this may be an opportunity for S16 to learn what it's like being responsible for his own money. Release the money to him, and make it clear that you aren't going to "rescue" if things go awry.

Can you do it in a validating way, like explaining to him that he is on the verge of adulthood, and that you are releasing the money to him for his car, and he alone will own it, though it's certainly ok if his dad wants to help him work on it? If his dad wants to put his name on the title, it might be an opportunity to ask, "how do you feel about that? I'm your mother, and I don't see the need to put my name on the title, but that's something between you and your dad."

My first thought was that "most 16 year olds who work should be responsible for their own money," but then having a PD'd parent can be an issue that results in developmental issues with regard to maturity and responsibility.
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david
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 06:51:55 PM »

The car needs work ? What kind of work and how much does it cost for parts, tools needed, and the amount of time it will take ?

Restorations can be very expensive even just to get it street legal. If son or dad doesn't know much about cars this could be a money pit with no functioning car.

Do you know any good mechanics that can look at the car first ?

I had an auto repair business for 20 years. I sold the business in 2000. My SS's and I still fix their cars together. They are in their 30"s. One has jeep that was a project car. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea but at his age he had to make the decision. After about $6,000 he now needs an engine to the tune of $3,000. He is attached to the car because of all the work and money put into it but he can't drive it. I will probably be putting the engine in with him. I suggested we take the engine out and rebuild it but that is not what he wants to do.

I would have bought another jeep that ran good to begin with. He would have spent less money than he already has.
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2015, 11:19:34 PM »

I'd also be of two minds on this. On one hand, having a parent with any sort of mental illness can do a lot to delay a child's proper maturing process. If he's, say, a ten year old trapped in a 16 year old's body, then asking him to think logically about what's best for him and seperate himself from what his father wants is just too tall an order and you do need to step in, as you would for a 10 year old being duped into something stupid by someone he can't help but follow. Also, driving around a car that only sort of works and could potentially leave him stranded could end up putting you in a bad position in the middle of the night when you get that "can you come pick me up?" call.

However, he's two years away from being an emancipated adult and these lessons only get harder and more difficult the older a person gets. This may be a hard lesson that he isn't likely to ever forget. Not just a lesson about the price of blindly following his dad, but also a lesson about the importance of making good decisions even if they are less attractive ones. I'll take one reliable minivan over ten unreliable sports cars and so would most responsible adults. But sometimes we all have to take our lumps to get there.

The whole thing about his dad demanding to be on the title is a power play. I'd let your son know what it really means to have someone else on the title. When he understands that there are ramifications to that beyond just paperwork then he can also make an informed decision on how he feels about that.
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 06:00:22 AM »

If you tell him him no then explain the reasons. Try to detail the costs as best you can. What about insurance money, repair money, etc. You can also ask him why he can't put the car in his name instead of spelling it out as a control issue. Depending on how you present it he will figure it out.

Finding a better way to figure out how to help son will be the best course of action.
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2015, 08:31:14 AM »

I apologize, I had a long reply but since  I took too long , when I went to post it, my session timed out and I can't get it to post.

All the replies are helpful.
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2015, 10:20:26 AM »

You have some leverage because you're the adult co-signor for your son's account?

I would use that leverage. Tell S16 you don't think it's a good idea for reasons A, B, C. Ask him to research what title ownership is about, and how much he thinks it will cost to get the car road-ready, how many hours. What tools and services he will need. Cost of insurance.

Ask him see how much he can make working to save up $$$ to get a car that has fewer miles and needs less work.

You are not saying no, but he is about to make what is essentially an adult decision and he needs to weigh the pros and cons and do some legwork. This is what adults do.

"I would be careful about buying something that costs this much, that you consider yours, and then letting someone else be the owner. That means if X happens, then Y for you."

It could be a good lesson, but you have to do some foreshadowing for him.

What do you think your ex intends by being the title owner?
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 11:13:49 AM »

S16 wants to buy a vehicle,  one that needs restored.  S has worked and saved his money, plus he has  some birthday money saved from my mom.  I am custodian for his account . It's in my name and S's name because he is a minor.   I am not for S buying this vehicle as it is a money pit for him as this age.   His dad took him to see this vehicle and now  dad is going to take S to pick up this vehicle as it is some miles away.  S says the title is going into dads name because dad said so. I say no it goes in S name. I hear nothing from dad, my x2bh.  X2bh owes 6k in back support.  He doesn't want to pay the $100 reimbursement medical expenses that was for the entire year last year  for both kids. I paid over 500.

I'm in a legal battle in court because he wants support from me.  I'm 99% sure he got himself unemployed.

S is sticking up for dad here because dad is pushing to get this vehicle. S upset with me.

What do I do. How much can I say to S with out badmouthing dad, which I am on the verge of. I have to be so careful as x2bh chumed up the kids GAL.

Sorry for the challenging situation. Are you worried about your ex having ownership of the car, given his financial struggles?

Have you gone to look at the vehicle with your son?  Have you discussed listing both as owners, or have you considered going with your son to purchase the car and then listing him as the sole owner?
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whirlpoollife
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2015, 11:30:05 AM »

I brought up the support issues because h doesn't feel he needs to financially responsible for kids but wants his name on the title.  Something not quite right there.

Entitlement, immaturity, lots of it.

Last year, S bought a vehicle. Cheap. Not running but he and his friends got it running. But it has other major problems so it won't be street worthy.  When we bought it , that title was going into his name, but since he did not have a photo ID, it had to go in my name... .temporaliy.  Lessons be learned for me, and for him.

Since I took him for his permit and a photo ID.

His license will wait till he is 18 when he can have his own policy. On account I don't want him driving his dads vehicle and have an accident. If that would happen I would be tangled even more with h.

Last fall, S all of a sudden wanted vehicle#1 towed to his dads house. Right now.

Gut feeling something wasn't right.

Aha, on a settlement proposal , h had stipulated that what was ever in his possesion becomes his.

Ok, so that was it, vehicle goes to his house , it becomes his and I have to pay for the title transfer to him. S looses any parts money on it.

So I said to S, yes the vehicle can go to your dads but it will go in your name first.

Ohh, never mind. The vehicle remains at my house.

H is a hustling weasel on money. He was like that when I met and married him. I fell for it.

That's what came to my mind when I heard that he wants Vehicle # 2 in his name but S paying for it.  I don't want to see him to that to the kids.

H is immauture and he passes it on to the kids. I can't change that. But I hope I give kids other perspectives to be succesful adults.

Since vehicle# 1  I have said no to S on many other vehicles he had to have.  I explained much on finances and saving and secondary schooling.  

This one, dad decided to take him to see it and together they said yes to purchase it.

 

If h was a normal non dad... .I'd let it go and it would great that they worked on S's vehicle . But h is not.

Taking over the title , power and control.  Or tell S it can't be fixed , sell it , and give S a portion of what it sold for and pocket the rest.  I'm nuts for thinking that but I lived h and know his capabilities.

For me, I have to continue to work on my backbone.



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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2015, 12:08:50 PM »

Have you gone to look at the vehicle with your son?  Have you discussed listing both as owners, or have you considered going with your son to purchase the car and then listing him as the sole owner?

It's location is far, and it  would need towed back to our area.  Another expense . 

It's just  not feasible for me to get this towed back.

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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 12:24:17 PM »

If it's about having a backbone, they you can say no to S. It sounds like you're leaning that way?

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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 12:36:24 PM »

It sounds like he didn't learn from the first Project Jalopy.
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 12:57:30 PM »

Have you gone to look at the vehicle with your son?  Have you discussed listing both as owners, or have you considered going with your son to purchase the car and then listing him as the sole owner?

It's location is far, and it  would need towed back to our area.  Another expense . 

It's just  not feasible for me to get this towed back.

Thanks. The towing issue is then pretty serious. Without it being a running/drivable car, there is no telling what the costs might be to actually get it to the point of being drivable. Owners lie all of the time about what a non-running car needs to get it running. Just a battery, just an alternator, just a head gasket, etc. can turn out to be real nightmares, as I am sure you are already worried about; my thought is usually, if it were a simple fix, the owner would have taken care of it in order to sell it for more.

Also, it is not sounding good for your exes mechanic skills and good intentions either, given that car #1 is still disabled.

What if you made getting another car contingent on getting the first car up and running and sold? Put is on your ex to show that he will follow through and help son.
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2015, 01:06:20 PM »

Yes and yes.

Dealing with h on it ... .

I had sent an email via OFW.  He has not opened it. So I sent one text saying , please check email on OFW, thinking maybe he just didn't receive the notification from OFW.

His reply text... .if this is an emergency, then text it to me or if it's time sensitive material, foward the email to my text.



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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2015, 01:47:43 PM »

What if you made getting another car contingent on getting the first car up and running and sold? Put is on your ex to show that he will follow through and help son.

This is really good! Because it's possible your ex is thinking, "Let whirlpool be the bad guy." He knows you will be responsible and do the mature thing. And that S16 won't be happy. They get to create an alliance, which puts you in a difficult position.

Mike-X's suggestion puts the responsibility back on your ex.

"I think you need to talk to your dad about plans for Jalopy #1 and get that all sorted out. The plan was to get that car going, and it didn't go well. How about you and your dad figure out a plan for what you plan to do with that one. Money in your account is to help you go to college, you're worth it. I want to see you do well long term."
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2015, 08:06:22 AM »

I did discuss with son the cost and repairs of this vehicle. I did discuss his secondary education.

To no avail.

I get a long letter back , on OFW, from h.

he will ask the courts what % of the kids theirs and what is mine ( none of it is mine , it was gift money from my mom I put into their account so he couldn't getvhis hands on it, he was mad about back then) and what is kids, he will then take their money and open a joint accont with both kids.

He will also ask for me to stop injecting greed into the plans of kids and him. This is not about you. He will then take care of the paper work he has with the kids as a family.

He is asking for me to not be primary of S right now.

He will  buy car insurance for S when he passes his driver test

He will do the same with D.

He letting  me and the courts know that he does not put restrictions on phones calls ,texts , or to go with me somewhere.  ( the custody master put restrictions on his phone calls to kids because it was hours he would be on the phone and at all times. I have to enforce every call.

I have never asked for the kids when they are with him. When kids were with him and he was able, kids needed a ride to their activities I took them. No big deal... I did document it though)

He is asking the courts for all this to avoid conflict with me and my money.

Well, I told my L, the one dealing with asset division , that this was his next step... .to be primary. Kids can decide and he will convince them.  My exact words.

So I have two copies of his email back to me to show both L's. The other being the custody L.

I want to respond back to h, but I am not. This is what I want to say to him though.

Who drained my savings when we married

Who paid for the all the vehicles we owned

Who paid for our housing in 27 years of marriage.

Who paid the flights and vacations

Who paid for the years in our past 27 yrs when you didn't feel like working

Who was angry when I took kids gift money and put it seperate from your hands.

Who paid for your thousands of dental and medical bills

Who paid thousands for kids braces.

Who paid for their preschool

Who paid for their activities

Who paid for their clothes

Who paid for their computors.

Who paid your debts  off on your failed businesses.

Who put restrictions on phone calls because you were doing all the talking to keep kids from me.

Since when does deciding who is primary parent have to do on  who pays for kids car insurance.

Go ahead and tell the courts .



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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2015, 10:53:20 AM »

When ever my ex makes claims that are not true I try to find a way that benefits the children and me and then agree with her. I only communicate through email so I have it in writing. If h wants to go to court saying he will pay for their car insurance then have it written in the court order. If he then refuses you can let the children know he already agreed to that and it is in the court order. Whether or not you go back to court is another issue but you have proof of what he says.

When we went through equitable distribution ex claimed I stole the contents of the house. She actually did and I had proof that would hold up in any court. I am not sure of the exact number but valued the contents to a little over a million dollars. I agreed with her valuation since I had proof she had the things she listed in her court papers. I agreed to value and said she could keep all the things and just give me my half in cash. When her atty seen some of the proof I had everything was settled in less then fifteen minutes. It went in my favor with a 70/30 split. I could have gone to court, according to my atty, and got an 80/20 split but that would have meant we would be married for at least six more months. I figured it was worth getting it settled then and there. The actual valuation was much less then her claims.
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 06:42:58 PM »

You can't expect ex to be reasonable or to even listen.  So accept that.  In every communication write it as though it is the court or lawyer or evaluator looking over your shoulder.  Not that they will, but you never know when it will be needed.

As for custody or primary, don't give in an inch to ex's pressuring and blustering.  Picture it all as noise escaping from a bag of hot air.   In court you can present yourself as the responsible parent, the one who has been the involved parent the entire lives of the children.  Yes, he can pressure and perhaps even fool the children with gifts but to a large extent that is out of your hands.  Present your good case to the court and accept where the chips fall.  (It almost certainly can't be worse than what ex wants.)

If you don't get full custody and he doesn't get full custody, try to get "decision making" status or "tie breaker" status.  You already have some issues that can't be resolved without court, see if you can make the case to court that he will obstruct in various ways and force a return to court over and over and that some alternative is needed.  The DM or TB mentioned here allows it to be joint custody yet specified who gets the final word.  Or is that what "primary parent" is?

If son wants a vehicle and you're the one paying for it then you should be able to require he not include his father as co-owner.  For example, you can handle the registration with son accompanying you to the title/registration agency.  Your money, your control, not ex's control.  Period.  Can you make that your boundary?  Are older teens allowed to have a vehicle registered in only their name?  (Don't appear wishy washy, that's an invitation for your boundaries to be challenged and overrun.)

And sometimes you can just say, No.  Or not yet.  Or not that one.  Nothing evil or horrendous when you say that.  The world won't end, the sky won't fall, the children won't stop loving you over it.
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2015, 07:54:33 AM »

I sent an email back.  I validated h on that he is right that it is not a out me, that is why I am concerned as to why he wants the title in his name

I said I do not take him away from his family projects, that he  is free to purchase any vehicle and work in it with kids.

I gave concerns about the the last vehicle turning into parts and not wanting us doing the same mistake. I pointed pointed out the expense to fix and maintain this next vehicle. I asked if he discussed that with S. I asked if plans to pay for the parts . I said that there are other vehicles that are better and closer so he (h) doesn't have the expense to tow it back.  That is why I disagree with this purchase.

I said the when it comes time for S to purchase a vehicle , that his money will come out of his (S) account in the form of a cashiers check made out to the seller.

I did not mention greed or primary or insurance or courts ( I did have feel free to ask the courts anything... .but left  that out as I did not want to come across aw being sarcastic )

I had my custody L on this. He said h is trying to bully me , he saw the craziness and projection). But since we have joint legal , large decisions as this has to be agreed upon otherwise it does go to court.  ( if only I knew about the tie breaker parent with my first L!

She never explained, I did what she said feeling she was going to watch out for her client)

It was worth taking a break from my first reaction to his email. Ask for help. 

Focus on the subject,  not all his craziness he added on to it . Validate some ,  show my concern for S, offer alternatives,

Show a boundary ... .I'm not going to give h cash from S's account.

I also  mentioned to S again to have his current vehicle put in his name towed to his dads so they can work on it,  but he said no not now.  ( I will press that issue later )  Which makes me think h is still going to try to get the marital home.   

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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2015, 08:44:50 AM »

Stay strong. I feel like you are right about this car issue.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2015, 08:54:05 AM »

Which makes me think h is still going to try to get the marital home.   

This is pretty much guaranteed based on how you have characterized your ex  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Even if there was a mortgage, even if he did not have the money to pay the mortgage, he will probably try to get the marital home.

If he does not have any entitlement to your inheritance, and you sort that out in court first, would he have enough income to keep the home?
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2015, 10:58:20 AM »

If he does not have any entitlement to your inheritance, and you sort that out in court first, would he have enough income to keep the home?

In his past  proposals  he wanted the house free and clear and with appliances.  So yes with that he could afford it. That would be gifting way too much though.  I plan to argue it if it comes up again.  So many assumptions, predictions and then things get turned in a different direction, I just have to be prepared.
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 11:02:43 AM »

It sounds like being relentless is part of your ex's strategy 

Even if what he is being relentless about is absurd.
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 09:30:01 PM »

Yes he is. I've warned  first L that and current L's of this.

I got a reply from my last response. A long reply.

Now instead of, he is going to tell the courts,

It's , "My L and I... .find you aggressive in this matter, odd that you think I want the title in my my name. Its your greed interfering ... .

Again... .how did I come with that he wants the title in his name... .

Says that I lock the current vehicle in my garage when kids are with him and don't allow S and him to work on it.

( there was five lines about this )


Says that I am allowed over to his place to work on their projects anytime I want to.

That he does not stop this as I do

(Another five lines on this )

Numerous times that it's not about me it's about the kids

That he and S will come up on with their own decision to buy a vehicle.

So where did I come up with the idea that they are buying this next vehicle

Says I am negative to S about current vehlicle .

I am greedy that I don't give S a budget to fix the vehicle.

S tells him everything on my views of this.

Etc etc, you got the idea. Projections and lies.

What makes me angry , sad and in tears is S is angry with me and Dad is up on a pedestal.

S is expecting they are are going to pick up the second vehicle this weekend . He has his tools and battery from old to get this next one started.

He wants cash , not a cashiers check  to give to the seller .  ( that hasn't happened )

( But h said that he and S haven't made a decision )

Thanks for letting me vent post.






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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 09:42:00 PM »

I'm sorry, whirlpool. I know it's hard.

I remember when I was in 11th grade and my parents said we were moving to a different province (lived in Canada at the time). I was so upset, cried, couldn't believe they were doing this, my final year in a new high school, the end of the world.

Inside, though, I remember also feeling kind of curious and wondering what it would be like, new friends, fresh start, I could come back and see my close friends, everyone would be scattering in a year anyway. They never ended up moving, I remember feel disappointed.

Just to say that sometimes teens vent for reasons that aren't always entirely clear. Your son knows, even if he can't articulate it, that his dad is not the grown up. You are. You're the stable, consistent parent who is making sure he doesn't do something dumb with his money. Right now, for whatever reason, he is enjoying the immaturity of your ex, the Disney dad stuff. But eventually he will likely outgrow this and realize that his dad is not playing with a full deck.

Are you going to respond to the email?
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2015, 11:07:26 PM »

I have not yet . I don't know if I will . I see what just happened when I thought I gave a rational response to his last one.  ( knowing really  I wasn't going to get one in return )

But h wants to know where I got the idea of him wanting the title in his name and that they decided to buy the vehicle . Do I tell him it was from S saying that h said all this? That they went to see the vehicle and they  told the seller that they are buying it . That he told S that they are going  to pick it up this weekend? That S has only talked about this all week.

I m thinking I will call custody L , read both emails, mine and then this last one and ask him what to do.  He wanted me to tell h that we have joint legal to this type of decision ... .but I didn't realize that myself , I thought joint legal was for schooling, extra caricular activities, religion, leaving the country , major medical ... .not buying a used vehicle. And I already let S buy the first ( much cheaper than current ) without consulting H. So I don't really want to say that.

What are your thoughts on whether to respond or not?

H saying I am allowed to come over to his house for kids projects even when he is not there is to try to get me to say... oh my if he allows me to go over to his house then I must allow him over to mine.

Maybe with this escalation from h , that the final divorce decree is getting nearer. Using projection and kids is his way to get even. 
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2015, 10:06:51 AM »

If son is a minor and the account is under your control, then you can rightly use your discretion with the money entrusted into your care and also set your terms and conditions for any disbursements.  Son as a minor can't demand it, at least as long as you're not pilfering or squandering it.  StbExH can't demand it because it's not his business.

So, knowing he is 'relentless as part of his strategy' as LnL noted, you just make your Boundaries and stand by them.  Yes, you can modify them now and then if you feel it is appropriate for the circumstances but not under coercion or guilting.  Having a backbone is a good thing.
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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2015, 12:12:03 PM »

But h wants to know where I got the idea of him wanting the title in his name and that they decided to buy the vehicle . Do I tell him it was from S saying that h said all this? That they went to see the vehicle and they  told the seller that they are buying it . That he told S that they are going  to pick it up this weekend? That S has only talked about this all week.

I haven't responded yet but will do later...

I spoke with L and he said to say this  before I even asked.

It does not put S in the middle as was a worry to me. I can shorten it up to one sentence and be done with  it.

As I was reading the response from h to L, L couldn't  hold back his own thoughts  on h's nonsense.   

Thanks for giving me strength to my boundaries and backbone.
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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2015, 10:46:11 AM »

The vehicle got purchased. Not with S's money. Who's , I don't know.  (my L asked me too on this as h owes back c/s but he bought a vehicle for S.  Could be gift money from h's family? who knows?  )  S and dad got it transported back to h' s house.  It remains on the trailer. I ask S why is it still on the trailer ... .no straight answer.  S tells me of who is coming to see it, his frineds to be expected, exciting for S.  Anyone getting a new/used vehicle is the interest  of the day. Added to the viewing of the vehicle, are parents , whose kids are friends with S but friends are away at collage. ( h wasn't friends with any parents of kids friends prior to divorce) Each one , I hear from S , tells him it's going to get up and running.  I did not think much of it , validated it for S. But I hear it again and again. 

Is this me, or does it seem like h is out to prove me wrong (one of his traits) and involving S with it?

( because I was hoping to see S buy a running vehicle , with money he earned, and titled to his name. H disagreed with all )

How do I validate S, that I am happy for him for his, ( or whoever its titled to) vehicle but let him know that he himself does not have to prove me wrong.

Not from a teens point of view, as teens in normal families , go though the stages of parents are wrong on everything , but for him not to pick up on h's trait that proving someone wrong is the right thing to do. 

Do I just let it pass , in a couple months , it will be a non issue ( unless there is custody brought up by h).  Is not reacting to this better off ?

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« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2015, 12:43:57 PM »

Is not reacting to this better off ?

Anything other than validating how your S feels (excited) is probably not going to be heard. It is too exciting, too new, they found a way. That in and of itself is ok, it probably stings, though, because you wanted the lesson to go another way. Still, if your H were a teen-ager, and emotionally he is probably not even that, and the two boys (S + H) managed to pull this off, it shows some ingenuity.

Whether it runs or not is beside the point. You did not want H using S's money, and you stood your ground. Those were your values, your boundaries, and you took care of you. Even if S + H feel they "won," there will be some begrudging respect that you could not be budged.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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