Drama never ends

[newlifeBPDfree]

I've had really difficult week with my ex. I'm not sure how to deal with it anymore.

Just a summary of my background. I have been divorced for a year and have an 11 year old daughter. I have sole custody. My ex was living with his girlfriend the whole year but had been trying to get back with me. We had a lot of back and forth but for most part we were living separate lives and my daughter would go to his gf's house couple nights a week. He still had keys to my apartment because he was picking up my daughter from school and waited for me to get home from work (he has no job so he could do that(.

Two months ago after Thanksgiving he was trying to commit suicide (not sure if it was serious attempt or scream for attention). He swallowed some pills and his gf took him to the hospital. As soon as he woke up he started texting me hurtful things blaming me for him trying to end his life. He stayed in the hospital for a week at a psychiatric ward and got the help he needed so desperately. He would call me from the hospital phone and talk to me and I saw that he was much more peaceful. After a week he asked me to pick him up, which I did. He started asking me to take him back again, telling me he loved me and he wanted to be family again. Part of me was scared that if I said no he would end up taking his own life again but part of me was craving the family life and was seeing improvement in his mental state and thought maybe I could give him a chance. He gradually moved all his things to my place again. He kept seeing a therapist and was working on himself. I was working on our communication as well and tried not to repeat our past mistakes. It was going pretty well until last weekend.

Friday night we had nice dinner and had some family time and I went to sleep. I was violently woken up with him on top of me screaming, slapping me, pulling my hair and pinning me down. He demanded to know who Joe is (Joe was my divorce attorney who was recommended by my good friend and who after the divorce was final asked me out and I politely refused). Apparently my ex went into my phone and read some messages from a year ago from my friend who said that if I dated Joe he would treat me good and that he was so impressed with me etc. I'm not sure why I never thought to delete the message, but in the end I did not do anything inappropriate. During the scuffle I got a lot of minor bruises all over my hands and I lost a lot of hair but I also gave him a black eye in self defense. He was tormenting me for two hours and then he took my car and left to stay at his ex girfriends house.

All Saturday I have been trying to take the car back and finally he brought it in the afternoon. But he also brought back his verbal and emotional abuse. Our daughter got dragged into is as well. I wanted to call the police so many times, I wanted him to leave but he refused. My daughter begged me not to call the police and I did not. Instead I stayed there subjecting myself to more abuse. He was threatening me saying "Wait until you go to sleep". We ended up camping in the living room all three of us. I did not want to sleep away from my daughter and she wanted her dad with her too. He woke me up again trying to get my phone from underneath me. Then he took my laptop and started digging for stuff. He was calling me trash, whore, slut etc.

The next morning he continued his hateful words even though I wanted to stay away from him as much as possible. He was dragging our daughter once again and blaming me for everything that happened. I kept asking him to leave and he would not. I could not take it anymore. I said im calling the police. My daughter started screaming and begging me not too, then she jumped on top of me, bit me and scratched me. She said she will kills herself if I call the police.  I was so scared of her reaction I did not know to do. The only thing I thought at that time was to leave immediately to at least stop the fighting in front of her. She did not want to go with me. I went to the library for several hours and he said he left the house. He took her to his ex gfs house and when I tried to talk to her she said she wanted to take a break and wanted to stay there. I respected her wishes and let her stay the night. Monday was a holiday and she stayed there. She did not want to come back. I felt like he manipulated her against me and told her lies. I have not seen her since that Sunday. She grew more and more distant and I was trying to reach her and she did not want to talk. Yesterday she told me to leave her alone, that she wants to be with dad, that she is mad I wanted him arrested. It broke my heart. I do have a sole custody so I could just come and pick her up with the police but I did not want to put her in more trauma. I'm puzzled, confused, scared. I don't know what happened and why she is so distant. We were close before, she was close with her dad too. I have a feeling she is afraid to leave him in fear he will kill himself. In the meantime my ex is being very emotional and is trying to ask for couple counselling. I feel we are way past that. I went to court and got an order of protection for me, I changed the locks. I dont know what I cant do regarding my daughter. I am afraid that if I take her away from him and he will try to kill himself she will never forgive me. At the same time, I feel like the environment she is in right now is very unhealthy.

[david]

Sounds like your d11 needs some kind of counseling/therapy. Could be a lot of things but she probably needs a neutral person to help her sort through it.

Validation is very important for children.

[Panda39]

Hopefully there isn't a next time but if there is physical violence again call the police!  What happened to you was NOT okay! For your protection and your daughter's protection call the police.  I understand that your daughter didn't want to see daddy arrested and I know you think you were protecting your daughter but I see it from another perspective and that is by doing nothing you are showing your daughter that physical violence is acceptable, it isn't. Physical Violence is not okay and she needs to understand that so she doesn't allow someone to do that to her when she grows up and gets into a relationship.  By "protecting" her and not calling the police you are sending the wrong message.

I think for now just let things cool off and then bring your daughter home.  Do not bring home the ex and if I were you I would get the locks changed you really don't want him having access to your home.

I also agree with david get your daughter into therapy if she isn't already it is really helpful for kids to have a neutral person to talk these things out with, where they can get some coping tools, and additional support.

[newlifeBPDfree]

Thank you for your reply. I got my daughter home and she seems ok but I do want to get her into therapy ASAP. There seems to be a lo of manipulation going on from my ex and his girlfriend. It's hard because he feels bad about everything that happened and I want to take him back but then he stars accusing me and insulting and then I'm so happy I got my protective order in place... .

[david]

My ex left in 2007. She kept going back and forth on saving our marriage. I realized ex was unable to get the help she needed and moved forward. We divorced in 2010 or 2011. We now have a court ordered co parent counselor. Ex is still fighting the same fights she was fighting in 2007. I don't engage and haven't for years now. The counselor redirects but I see how ex is stuck somewhere and probably won't get past it until she actually gets help.

The drama is lessened because of my disengagement but ex still tries.

Read about validation for your child. Learn as much as you can. That was the one big thing that helped our two boys.

[bravhart1]

So the ex gf just let's him breeze in and out of her home? Is she also caught up in a dysfunctional relationship with him? This sounds like he's got all three of you girls in a bad situation.

I think you and your daughter need immediate therapy. An 11 year that threatens to kill herself ought to be taken very seriously.

I'm so sorry you are going through all this drama, it's clearly overwhelming, stressful and scary. Please seek out some help. You have done NOTHING to deserve this abuse or violence.

In my opinion I would worry a lot less about him, his mental problems, and his happiness. And focus 100% of my energy and effort on you and your daughter.

[newlifeBPDfree]

So the ex gf just let's him breeze in and out of her home? Is she also caught up in a dysfunctional relationship with him? This sounds like he's got all three of you girls in a bad situation.

That's correct. She has a lot of issues of her own and I'm not even going to go into detail.

Update on my situation: Last night he started sending me hateful messages and it lasted several hours. I probably got 80-90 texts from him. Today he came to my house with cops to gather his stuff. My daughter got really upset and wanted to go with him. She would not listen to me and I did not know what to do and did not want to cause a fight so I let her go with him. I'm really regretting this now. He also took some of my property with him (mostly documents). I feel like this only gets worse. I'm not doing anything to provoke him, I'm not even responding to his hateful messages. Early yesterday morning he sent me emails about how much he loves me and I was trying to validate his feelings and asked him to get help, I even said I would do counselling with him, I offered to review his paper for college that is due tonight. But he is going deeper and deeper into his rage. It stinks because in the end I still care about him and want him to get help.

[Panda39]

I want to take him back

Why? So he can beat you again?  So he can beat you again in front of your daughter?  So he can cause so much stress and drama your daughter wants to kill herself?  I will say again physical violence is absolutely not okay.  Protect yourself and your daughter stay away from this man... .you matter and your daughter matters.  I know it is hard to break away from this relationship but you must try it is not healthy.

I've attached a link about FOG (fear, obligation & Guilt - Emotional blackmail) Please read it, my guess is that it will sound familiar.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Please get therapy for yourself and your daughter you need support negotiating your way through this and she needs someone outside of the situation that she can talk to.

I'm so happy I got my protective order in place... .

When did you get the protective order?  I'm really happy to hear you have that but he has keys to your house?  Please change your locks if you haven't already.  No order can protect you if you give him the keys to get in.

I want to say I'm sorry if I come across as harsh but domestic violence really pushes my buttons and I am concerned.

Take care,

Panda39

[newlifeBPDfree]

I want to take him back

Why? So he can beat you again?  So he can beat you again in front of your daughter?  So he can cause so much stress and drama your daughter wants to kill herself?  I will say again physical violence is absolutely not okay.  Protect yourself and your daughter stay away from this man... .you matter and your daughter matters.  I know it is hard to break away from this relationship but you must try it is not healthy.

I've attached a link about FOG (fear, obligation & Guilt - Emotional blackmail) Please read it, my guess is that it will sound familiar.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Please get therapy for yourself and your daughter you need support negotiating your way through this and she needs someone outside of the situation that she can talk to.

I'm so happy I got my protective order in place... .

When did you get the protective order?  I'm really happy to hear you have that but he has keys to your house?  Please change your locks if you haven't already.  No order can protect you if you give him the keys to get in.

I want to say I'm sorry if I come across as harsh but domestic violence really pushes my buttons and I am concerned.

Take care,

Panda39

You are not harsh at all. I feel like I need to hear things like this because I am weak and I let him do these things to me, enabling him to treat me that way because I keep getting pulled back into this viscous cycle. I got protective order this past Tuesday. I don't know if he has been served yet, but he know about it because his gf/ex-gf (who knows anymore) works in a law office and was able to retrieve the information.

I do pan on getting my daughter and I into therapy as soon as possible. This has gone way too far.

[Panda39]

Last night he started sending me hateful messages and it lasted several hours. I probably got 80-90 texts from him.

Sounds like your ex had an "extinction burst" here is a link so you can read more about it... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

Today he came to my house with cops to gather his stuff. 

 

Good now he no longer has any reason to be in your house.

I'm not doing anything to provoke him, I'm not even responding to his hateful messages. 

Of course you're not provoking him.  This is all him.  Great job not responding to the messages don't feed the drama.

Early yesterday morning he sent me emails about how much he loves me and I was trying to validate his feelings and asked him to get help, I even said I would do counselling with him, I offered to review his paper for college that is due tonight. But he is going deeper and deeper into his rage. It stinks because in the end I still care about him and want him to get help.

Sounds like "Push and Pull" is going on here.  Another link for you about this... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=99725.0

As far as your ex getting help that is up to him.  You can't make him change only he can make changes in himself.  the only person you can change in this situation is you.

I think you and your daughter need immediate therapy. An 11 year that threatens to kill herself ought to be taken very seriously.

I'm so sorry you are going through all this drama, it's clearly overwhelming, stressful and scary. Please seek out some help. You have done NOTHING to deserve this abuse or violence.

In my opinion I would worry a lot less about him, his mental problems, and his happiness. And focus 100% of my energy and effort on you and your daughter.

I'm with bravhart1

[livednlearned]

Hi newlifeBPDfree,

I recommend this book so much to women in abusive relationships I forget who I have shared it with  so apologies if I have already written this. But the book Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry/Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft was one of the most important books I read when I was trying to leave my marriage. Lundy spent 20 years working with abusers and describes things in a way that really helped me see how my ex works. For some reason, that helped me truly emotionally detach.

When we're in abusive relationships, we know that it's wrong, and it can be very difficult to understand why we stay. There's a lot of shame, and that can be so isolating. We start to tell ourselves that we are stupid, and weak, and other insults. I honestly think this just makes it even harder to detach. The most courageous thing you can do is to start telling yourself a different story about who you are. There is a good chance that you learned to tell yourself you're not (insert insult) enough sometime in your childhood. Maybe you had a father or brother who made you feel less than.

It takes a lot to change that dynamic. You can't change it if you stay with your ex, no matter whether he is wonderful 10% or 25% or even 50%.

Your D is probably acting out the conflicting dynamic she feels coming from you  :'( I found when I got clear about things, my son's troubling behavior evened out a bit. It's still hard, but he's made a lot of progress. A lot of what our kids experience they learn from watching us. Including having very confusing feelings about what it means to love someone and be loved by them.

If you get your D into therapy, be sure to get a good T too. Even a good T for your D will only be an hour a week. The real change will come from what your D experiences watching you heal.



I'm so sorry about what you're going through. The thought of a loved one taking his or her life can be so traumatizing, and sometimes it paralyzes us.

[newlifeBPDfree]

Hi newlifeBPDfree,

I recommend this book so much to women in abusive relationships I forget who I have shared it with  so apologies if I have already written this. But the book Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry/Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft was one of the most important books I read when I was trying to leave my marriage. Lundy spent 20 years working with abusers and describes things in a way that really helped me see how my ex works. For some reason, that helped me truly emotionally detach.

Thank you for the recommendation. I have just ordered the book.

[newlifeBPDfree]

I literally don't know how much I can take any longer. On any given day I get about 100 hateful messages. They hurt and they make me want to just run away where no one can find me. I finally had to block his number last night so I can stop the hateful texts but then I got numerous calls back to back from an unknown number. This has been going for a week now. He won't drop it and just keeps going on and on. I'm tired, emotionally exhausted, I'm starting to doubt myself, questioning my choices, questioning my very core... .

[Panda39]

newlifeBPDfree,

I'm sorry the ex is harassing you.  You did the right thing by blocking his number.  Don't read his messages (delete them unread) and don't answer the phone. Just turn the phone off for awhile... .create a little peace for yourself. He is trying to get you to engage with him... .don't.

I don't know all the choices you've made but leaving this man was a good one.  I'm sorry he's making you so miserable and I get why you are emotionally exhausted... .he's been bombarding you all weekend trying to control you.

Hang in there and don't give up.  You are legally free of him (which I will say again was a good move) now you have to work on getting emotionally free of him.  You need to set boundaries.  What are some you think you could set?

There are 2 I can think of right off the bat.

1) Get your locks changed

2) A tool I learned here was to start communicating with your ex only via email.  Communicating via email takes some of the emotion out of the communication because it's written, communicating via email means to can slow down the interaction (no 80-90 texts in 30 minutes or the phone ringing 20 times in 5 minutes).  You can read and respond in your own time.  One member had a rule that she would wait 24 hours before responding.  What is the ex's message?  Is it a negative attack? Is it all drama?  If it is don't respond (you don't have to be polite) Only respond if it is something legitimate about your daughter (since you have sole custody you don't even need to do that).

What are some other boundaries you could set?

Did your daughter make it back home yesterday?

I was also thinking yesterday that you might also want to post on the [L3] Leaving: Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship Board even though you've legal left you are still emotionally attached.  The folks on the "Leaving Board" are there too.

Take Care 

[livednlearned]

I literally don't know how much I can take any longer. On any given day I get about 100 hateful messages. They hurt and they make me want to just run away where no one can find me. I finally had to block his number last night so I can stop the hateful texts but then I got numerous calls back to back from an unknown number. This has been going for a week now. He won't drop it and just keeps going on and on. I'm tired, emotionally exhausted, I'm starting to doubt myself, questioning my choices, questioning my very core... .

My ex did the same thing. In the 3 years following our split, he sent over 10,000 emails. My L had me tally them -- she wanted the judge to understand the kind of volume I was dealing with. Many of them were so hateful that I saw my judge actually wince. In our deposition, my L asked N/BPDx if he ever called me names, if he was ever angry at me. He said no. Then she read over 30 different names he called me in emails, including disgusting/vulgar ones.

That kind of anger from one parent to another, especially after the parties have been apart for a while, is a red flag. If you have a good judge, and have documented the abuse, it's likely that you could get supervised visitation. If your ex cannot reign it in even with supervised, he may have his visitation terminated. Or, like my ex -- the court may create a conditional plan. Meaning, if N/BPDx does xy and z, he can apply to have visitation reinstated. But that involves anger management, a forensic psych eval, and substance abuse treatment. N/BPDx never did any of those things, so he is no longer in S13's life.

The emails to you are not about you. They are about your ex. BPD is a serious mental disorder and he has virtually no coping mechanisms to regulate his emotions.

100 hateful emails a day is excessive and abusive. You have a right to have your life be about you -- that's a line from the Bancroft book. Your ex does not want you to  know that, so he continues to harass you, hoping that you won't have the strength or courage to believe in yourself. If you do, that means he loses control of you, something he desperately does not want because it makes him aware of his own emptiness and loneliness. I remember my T saying that N/BPDx stays negatively engaged because feelings of anger are preferable to feelings of emptiness. It takes time to neutralize how he makes you feel -- you're smart to not read the messages. It's a boundary that you gift to yourself because you're taking care of you. You're worth it.

[newlifeBPDfree]

Another update from me. My situation seems very dire now. Here is what happened tonight.

I was going to pick my daughter up from friends house but she texted me that she wanted to go with dad. She was at her dad's the night before and just a couple nights with me and  before that for about 5 days with when I was trying to get her back. I told her no, she was going with me and she said "That's too bad I want to go with dad" and when I put her in my car she was screaming at me that she does not want to go with me. When we got home she immediately went to her bedroom and would not talk to me. I heard her talk to her dad. He then called me and said he was coming to get her. I told him he could not, that I have full custody and order of protection. He said he has not been served yet so it was not valid. I called the police to serve him. My daughter witnessed it and got even more upset. She is now screaming "Let me go home" even though this has been her home for the last 7 years and her dad does not even have permanent residence anywhere and staying with his girlfriend.  She is screaming she hates me and that I'm kidnapping her and holding her against her wish. I'm calling any counselling services there are but it's night time and they are all closed. I'm scared, worried, heartbroken. I dont know what to do right now.

[martillo]

Sounds like such a challenging situation and hoping that there has been something positive since you posted.  As hard as all this is, remember that you are the parent and the parent that a court saw fit to assign sole custody.  There is a reason for that.  Sending  !

[david]

My ex used serious alienation tactics against me in the beginning. Our two boys both said in unison, "We hate you. We want to live with mom and never see you again." That was in 2008. I found a T for myself, learned how to defuse ex's alienation tactics, and learned how to validate the boys better then I did before. Today both boys see ex for what she is. She still tries alienation tactics but not as much. Also, they now backfire on her when she does. Staying focused on the boys got me through it. It isn't easy but it does get better. I will give my ex credit for helping me to be a much better parent. She gave me the situations that helped me achieve that.

[GaGrl]

Today, you have two priorities -what you need legally ( help from lawyer and police) and a counselor for you and your daughter ( individually and together).

[livednlearned]

I imagine you feel very scared, newlifeBPDfree, and you're worried about your D11. She is acting defiantly and her behavior is outside the norm given what her dad is like, but she doesn't have the emotional resilience and coping skills to express what she's feeling in appropriate ways. As hard as it is, she's at a good age to help turn things around and you're doing what you can to get her the attention she needs.

You might want to look for "reunification" therapists. They are usually trained specifically in cases of alienation, if that's what is happening here. It's likely that alienation is happening, and D11 is probably also worried her dad will commit suicide.

The thing about reunification therapists is that they will almost certainly understand BPD, and they will be able to look for brainwashing techniques, and help your D11 make sense of what's happening. Because your ex has put D11 in the middle, it makes it harder for us as parents to help our kids. Validation is a really important tool, like david said. The book Power of Validation (for parents) is excellent. It could be that your D11's feelings about her dad committing suicide haven't been deeply validated, so she is acting this way because she doesn't think anyone is listening to her.

The good news is that validation tends to start working right away. Your D11's feelings may need intervention from a professional because the force of her feelings are so entangled with the relationship between you and your ex.

[newlifeBPDfree]

You might want to look for "reunification" therapists. They are usually trained specifically in cases of alienation, if that's what is happening here. It's likely that alienation is happening, and D11 is probably also worried her dad will commit suicide.

The thing about reunification therapists is that they will almost certainly understand BPD, and they will be able to look for brainwashing techniques, and help your D11 make sense of what's happening. Because your ex has put D11 in the middle, it makes it harder for us as parents to help our kids. Validation is a really important tool, like david said. The book Power of Validation (for parents) is excellent. It could be that your D11's feelings about her dad committing suicide haven't been deeply validated, so she is acting this way because she doesn't think anyone is listening to her.

Thank you for the book recommendation. I will try to get it.

This morning is extremely hard and challenging to me. She is refusing to get up and go to school. She says that I'm evil and that she wants to see her dad. That I'm keeping her against her will, kidnapping her. I don't know how to handle this. I don't know how to make her go to school. Are there are therapists that come to your home. I am really not sure what to do right now. I'm really worried about her. I'm trying to be there for her and tell her I understand her pain and anger but it's not getting better. She wont let me touch her to even hug her. She seems to have a very selective memory of what has been happening and it all seems to reflect my ex's words to me - I ruined everyone's life by getting a divorce, I need therapy etc.

[newlifeBPDfree]

Today, you have two priorities -what you need legally ( help from lawyer and police) and a counselor for you and your daughter ( individually and together).

I did get the police involved and it seems to have backfired on me as she is really angry about that.

I'm looking for counselors I was hoping to talk to with her today but she refuses to get put of bed. I'm not sure if I can make one come to my house.

[livednlearned]

You may get some helpful advice from parents on the Parenting a Child with BPD board here -- they have been through some challenging times with their kids. Let them know what's happening with your D, that she is not BPD but her dad is, and that she appears to be alienated, that her dad has threatened to commit suicide. They are familiar with crises, and may have some good insights into a plan to help you get your D the help she needs.

[newlifeBPDfree]

You may get some helpful advice from parents on the Parenting a Child with BPD board here -- they have been through some challenging times with their kids. Let them know what's happening with your D, that she is not BPD but her dad is, and that she appears to be alienated, that her dad has threatened to commit suicide. They are familiar with crises, and may have some good insights into a plan to help you get your D the help she needs.

Thank you, I'll do that.