Would you (or have you) installed monitoring software on your kids' devices?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

This is a values question. I'm curious to hear how you handle this topic.

My son is taking a class about human sexuality through our church. They discuss pretty much everything -- you name it. It's a good program that goes way beyond the curriculum they teach in health class at school. Last week they talked about sexuality, social media, and the Internet.

S13 came home and talked about how parents of most of the kids in the class had installed monitoring software on their devices. I don't. S13 was the only kid in the class who didn't have a parent monitoring what he does online. We had a conversation about it, and I gave him some lame answer about my philosophy, why I don't monitor him. But honestly -- he's 13. Do I trust him? Kinda. But not really. He's not likely going to tell me if he's looking at porn. There are ground rules for when he's on the computer and what he can do, but I don't monitor him (other than investigate when he's video chatting to make sure it's someone we know in real life).

What do you all think about monitoring software?

[livednlearned]

This is a values question. I'm curious to hear how you handle this topic.

My son is taking a class about human sexuality through our church. They discuss pretty much everything -- you name it. It's a good program that goes way beyond the curriculum they teach in health class at school. Last week they talked about sexuality, social media, and the Internet.

S13 came home and talked about how parents of most of the kids in the class had installed monitoring software on their devices. I don't. S13 was the only kid in the class who didn't have a parent monitoring what he does online. We had a conversation about it, and I gave him some lame answer about my philosophy, why I don't monitor him. But honestly -- he's 13. Do I trust him? Kinda. But not really. He's not likely going to tell me if he's looking at porn. There are ground rules for when he's on the computer and what he can do, but I don't monitor him (other than investigate when he's video chatting to make sure it's someone we know in real life).

What do you all think about monitoring software?

[ogopogodude]

Good Topic.

I don't have monitoring apps, etc.  My teenagers would dismantle /delete them anyway.  In theory I would like to have such technology. But I probably wouldn't feel right about checking up on my kids this way.  Besides it would seem to me to be setting a wrong message (i.e. "I trust you kids, but just in case, I have this app or software so's I can check up on you kids from time to time" ---> this is a paradox, and even an irony). 

I trust my kids. I don't trust other kids though. When my kids had their 1st cell phones at age 11'ish it was the girls that were quite forward with my son.  When my son would be sleeping, I would see incoming texts on his cell at wee hours in the morning from some girls in his class that would ask "whatcha wearing"? and other sexual innuendos. I cringe to think that they may have even sent pics of themselves to my kids.

Anyways, ... .it's a different world now.  In my day we had one thing that was social media based:it was called the home telephone (that was tethered with a corded wire to the base). And the only thing we had that was close to porn was something called the Sear's catalog underwear section.

[Panda39]

My son is now 21 but I didn't install monitoring software when he was younger.  I monitored what he played on the computer etc.  I talked to him about being cautious with people he spoke to on the internet and keep information about himself private really treating the internet like I did with real life... .strategies for dealing with "strangers".  I gave him the tools I could so he could make the right choices on his own.

In middle school I caught him and some friends looking at porn... .my philosophy is that it is a natural thing to be curious about.  So I didn't lose my mind.  I sat my son down and had a talk with him about porn sex vs making love, about my values and what I thought was appropriate for him to be looking at.  I thought he would die of embarrassment... .poor guy  but I looked at as an opportunity for a conversation.

[SlyQQ]

when my kids were 13 and at high school they were so far past porn sites it wasnt funny its a different world here it is just about impossible to stop them an they literally would have had a stich from laughing if i tried

[Swiggle]

My girls are 11 and 12 and we do not have monitoring software on their phones. Our rules about the phones are

1. we pay the bill and it is a privilege to have one

2. At any time we are allowed to read texts, look at sites they visit

3. All apps have to be approved before downloaded

4. They are not allowed to have FB, Instagram, Twitter or other social media sites

5. They are also not to delete text messages

If they break the rules they lose the phone indefinitely. We have lots of conversations about the internet, social media and being safe. At this point they seem ok with not having that stuff. At one point my SD's mom had let her download instagram on the phone that we pay for. When we found it I asked her for the username and password. She gave to me so I started poking around, we also asked uBPDbiomom if she knew about the account. She said yes and that she monitors her there. While I was poking around I found that SD's account was followed by but she also had another account that mom had no idea about. When I asked for that username and password she said she forgot it. We asked mom and mom covered for her saying she knew about it but didn't have the info at the moment. When we got it, it didn't work. SD lost her cell for a loong time and was upset that mom threw her under the bus. When she finally got her phone back we told her and her mom that in no instances were either of them to install those kids of apps. That if mom wanted her to have that kind of thing she could buy/pay for her own phone for SD.

Some of the things I saw her friends posting on this things was  . Clearly their parents aren't monitoring what is going on with it.

I often wonder if my ex has installed things on my daughters cell that tracks/records. I would not put it past him to do so. I often find that after she has been with him he has logged her out of my family sharing iTunes account and into his. Kind of erks me seeing as he will have nothing to do with paying for any of her phone bill.

[22years]

Oh God, please help your son and install monitoring software. Hormones are raging. Its not a trust issue its a desire issue. For example, no one would "trust" his 2 year old to be safe and not cross the street bc we know he doesn't realize or understand the danger. The 2 year old is running on desire. You protect him. At 13, he is a 2 year old in his new sexual desires. He wants to be pure and knows he needs help. He is becoming aware of the danger but when the hormones rage he cant say no. If anyone has dealt with addiction he knows NOT to trust himself. And we shouldnt trust an alcoholic with alcohol, a drug addict with drugs, etc... .There are such things as sex addicts or addiction to porn. How do you think those addictions started? For my part I would put monitoring on and tell him this is not a trust issue but a realization that we all have weaknesses and in our weakest moments we become vulnerable to temptation, and I want to do all I can so that you can be a godly man.

[livednlearned]

This is really helpful. Thanks everyone.

In principle, I believe in trusting my son and knowing that we'll have a good relationship based on that trust.

In practice, he is suffering from depression and anxiety, and seeing a psychiatrist. He has a lot of social anxiety, although he is very likable, pretty handsome for a 13-year-old boy with pimples, and scores gifted on all his tests. But he also has a learning disability, wears glasses, and is not athletic in the least.

When I was looking at monitoring software online to see what other parents were saying, I kept coming across sites about social anxiety and video games, and social anxiety and porn.

I think my son is the type of kid who would play video games all day if I let him. And I mean all day. It sounds like that is the personality type who becomes addicted to porn. I know he's a curious kid and boys will be boys, but I'm more worried about him having an addiction. He's already socially anxious. A porn habit would definitely fit with his profile.

There is too much to risk installing it without telling him -- and that would go against my own values. But I'm going to talk to his therapist about this, together. We also have a family we're close to, and they have a son 3 years older than S13. They monitor their kids devices and even doing that, they discovered all kinds of things that weren't healthy.

Based on who my son is, and what he's struggling with, I guess I don't trust that he'll make good decisions to take care of himself.

He's going to be really mad if I monitor him.  

[gherkins]

My step kiddo is 10.  She's not allowed to be on the internet without an adult in the room.  There was an incident on youtube where she she accidently clicked on some adult content My Little Pony cartoon, so the adult chaperone rule is in full effect.  She has a tablet with kid access only, which stays at our house.  No apps can be installed by anyone except her dad or I, and it will only go to preapproved websites.  We've also limited her to 2 hours of screen time a day when she is with us.  If the weather is really bad, we have been known to extend that, but we really try to encourage her to play or read or go outside rather than sit in front of the TV or computer.  I know she doesn't have the same level of scrutiny at her mom's house, and when we call her (when we are *allowed to* talk to her) she is often playing a video game or distracted by the tv.

[livednlearned]

Hi gherkins,

Thank you for describing the boundaries for Internet that your SD has. It sounds like you are monitoring her, but not with monitoring software. As she gets older, it will become a bit more challenging to do this. Do you think you would consider monitoring software?

[WalrusGumboot]

I had two sons. The two are in their 20s now, with the youngest being in that 13-14 year age group 10 years ago.

I was a work at home IT guy at that time and had a home network. I set up the parental controls at the router level to block porn on their computers, which at that time was not fool-proof. There is also a way to block specific sites and specific keywords, and I utilized them too when I checked their browsing history (at the router) and found them getting around the parental controls.

The screws were tightened so much they were getting blocked from legitimate sites often. Oh, I talked and talked to the younger one (he was much worse than the older), warning him of the dangers, and he always promised to stop.

Then he fooled his Mom into her giving him her password once, and he stayed up late in the night as we slept surfing porn on her machine. After that was caught and stopped, at some point he needed to use her machine, and I had him step out of the room as I entered the password. He counted the keystrokes, then in the night guessed the password by going through names of pets, friends, etc. that equal the number of keystrokes. He had open access for months more.

When that was stopped, I thought for sure it would end. My office door was always locked by a deadbolt at night. It had many french windows and was very large. He dismantled the alarm on a corner window and his room, and started "breaking in" my office at night to use one of my spare computers to surf. This lasted until he broke a glass kicknack near the window climbing in.

The point is that if they are set in their mind to view it, they will go to extreme lengths, like a drug addict getting their dope.  It caused much distress between us over those years. Sometimes I second guess my effort, thinking I shouldn't have forbidden it and let him have full access to get it out of his system. It was like a game to him... outsmarting me.

[livednlearned]

WalrusGumboot,

I really appreciate your comments and sharing what you went through with your son. I guess it's this level of intensity I'm most concerned with. My therapist has impressed upon me the similarity of this kind of porn habit with addiction, and said too much porn can seriously jeopardize his ability to connect with people. Did your son suffer from social anxiety or any other type of anxiety disorder?

My son's father is an alcoholic, and my son claims he will never be like that -- in some ways I believe that could be true. He has many traits of a highly sensitive person (HSP) and the psychiatrist says he has mild SPD (sensory processing disorder) which makes him very sensitive to external stimuli. So I can imagine that he will not like the feeling of being drunk, and would instead numb his feelings by looking at porn.

I realize this is all conjecture 

You've all given me a lot to think about. I'm leaning toward installing the software, but in dialog with him, and with his psychiatrist. I can see him doing this and being very secretive, and feeling shame, undermining the therapy. It's better to get it out there as a topic of discussion.

[gherkins]

I think her father and I would consider monitoring software for her, or we would do what Swiggle has done and demand transparency.  The problem with monitoring software is that her mom would think we were using it to spy on HER, and not use it to protect the kiddo. That's what happened when someone gave her a "my first digital camera" when she was little.  It went back to Mom's and was "broken" shortly after we received a blistering phone call.  So Swiggle's rules, or an adaptation of them might be a less dramatic way to keep our kiddo safe.  I hope.  I wish there were a way we could cooperate with her mom on this issue, because there are a lot of creeps in the cyberworld.

[WalrusGumboot]

I really appreciate your comments and sharing what you went through with your son. I guess it's this level of intensity I'm most concerned with. My therapist has impressed upon me the similarity of this kind of porn habit with addiction, and said too much porn can seriously jeopardize his ability to connect with people. Did your son suffer from social anxiety or any other type of anxiety disorder?

Unfortunately, this particular son turned out to be a lot like his mother. A sense of entitlement. Dishonesty. Etc. He went through a bout with drugs, but I *think* he is past most of it. He doesn't have a clear sense of direction at this point in his life (approaching 25 years old next month)

If I could turn back the clock, I would have divorced much earlier. I stuck with it "for the kids". This didn't do them any favors in the long run. The older one turned out OK and is very successful in his life, but he does have lingering effects that seem to get better as he matures. Hoping for the same for the younger.

Besides being a nervous wreck around my ex, trying to protect the kids from harm is a huge job, and there are no guarantees as my story shows. You can safeguard your home, and then they go to a friends house and look at porn or watch forbidden movies there. You just do what you can, and don't take it as some kind of personal failure if they end up getting into it anyway.

WG

[livednlearned]

This raises a good point -- the difference between making it clear what I expect (boundaries) while acknowledging that he is likely going to try and get around those boundaries. But I feel I need to have the boundaries and make them clear that they're there. He needs to know I care about his developing brain, even if he gets mad at me for watching him online.

I usually like to solve things right away when it comes to S13. So this is new for me to cool my jets and put together a plan. I'm going to request to talk to his psychiatrist and get his feedback on what to do. I think it's also important that I put some distance between the conversation about what other kids' parents are doing, so that he doesn't blame church for bring down more surveillance on him. 

[Ripped Heart]

LnL, this sounds like a tough situation given your sons age, anxiety issues and the fact he is learning about human sexuality. It's perfectly natural and normal for a child of his age to want to explore what's out there, we all did it when we were younger, only we didn't have the access to the internet that kids seem to have nowadays.

I have Aspergers, which brings with it a certain level of social anxiety so can kind of understand the need for balance between both. My own situation, I went to an all boys private school so had even more anxiety around girls growing up. Porn did play a small part of my teenage years, from ringing up massive phone bills from adult chat lines and landing myself in a world of trouble with my mother, to friends smuggling in magazines to school to sneaking downstairs in the middle of the night and getting pictures sent through from adult sites on the internet.

I found that during those years, if something was taboo, it must be exciting and something you had to get your hands on. As WalrusGumboot has said, you can safeguard your home but if someone is determined, there are always other ways and means to navigate around the situation.

Perhaps monitoring software is something you may consider, not so much to stop it from happening but for your own peace of mind. A good approach if you do find something is maybe to approach it as part of a discussion. Helping your S13 understand that whilst this is something that is part of mainstream, it's not an accurate representation of what sex is about. You may be able to help distinguish between the two and work with him to help develop his brain. The downside of that is that I know as a 13 year old boy, my mother would have been the last person I turned to for advice around sex and sexuality so maybe that's something you can talk about with his psychiatrist. Knowing you are there to answer any questions he might have and that what can seem confusing to a 13 year old, he has someone he can talk to from a parent perspective is a good thing.

By monitoring, if he does choose to do that online, at least you know how much it is being utilised and able to enforce stronger boundaries if and when issues arise. I remember having a  similar conversation with exgf's son when he was 15. Didn't have to use monitoring software because webpages are logged in the history so could see what he was looking at. Again, it was easier with me talking to him rather than his mother and I left it with the door open if he had any questions, which sometimes he did. Initially, when it started to become a little too obsessive, I blocked the sites at router level.

Boys will be boys, it's not necessarily about stopping their development but more about controlling it in a safe way and working with them to understand the extremes as well as what is acceptable and what isn't as well as sticking to your own beliefs and boundaries too.

[livednlearned]

Boys will be boys, it's not necessarily about stopping their development but more about controlling it in a safe way and working with them to understand the extremes as well as what is acceptable and what isn't as well as sticking to your own beliefs and boundaries too.

Thanks Ripped Heart. It helps to hear your perspective on this as someone with Asperger's. My son is in a social skills class with 3 other boys, all three are Asperger's or high-functioning Autism, and there are a lot of similarities with social anxiety.

If it was just boys being boys, I think I would feel like a conversation might cut it, about what is acceptable, and keep doing what I'm doing. I'm more concerned that he uses porn in the same way he uses video games to self soothe.   I think I'm going to monitor, and have an open conversation about it, and talk to the psychiatrist.

I don't understand exactly what it means to block/monitor at the router level. I'm going to have to learn more about that.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm a geek, not a parent, so take my advice with appropriate grains of salt.

First, any attempt to block stuff will have both false positives and false negatives--block some legitimate things and allow access to others. It can help, but it cannot be perfect. And it is often easy to technically circumvent.

Second, make an honest assessment of your technical skills and your son's technical skills. Unless yours are significantly better than his, you won't achieve what you want through technical means, and it will likely give you a false sense of security.

Things like making sure that he only uses a computer in a public room, like the kitchen where you can see what he's doing any time he's using it will be effective. Obviously that won't work with his phone, or tablets... .or computers belonging to other people you don't supervise.

I'm more concerned that he uses porn in the same way he uses video games to self soothe.

Your fears may well be overblown there--some people become sex obsessed / sex addicted. Most don't. If S13 starts spending hours a day looking at porn, I think that it would be best viewed a symptom of a problem, rather than the source of a problem*.

As a kid, I had access to books, computers, and (some) porn. I first used books to check out on unpleasant and uncomfortable parts of life. I then started using computers (games, programming, and BBS's (pre-internet social media)) to check out from my feelings and avoid interacting with real-world people that were a challenge to me at the time.

I never became porn obsessed. The closest I ever got was collecting a bunch of images, back before the internet provided a near-infinite supply... .and even that wasn't a huge collection.

I still am working on my own avoidance behaviors around computers. (Gee, look what I'm doing right now!). I am coming to understand my whole history with it better for perhaps the first time. And I'm effectively single. I'm not dating. I do watch (or read) some porn. It is probably one of the healthier things I do on the internet 

Good luck working things out with your son and his therapist. You might also want to have a session with just the therapist (without your son) to better clarify your strategy/goals before you start.


* I think the biggest problem with porn is that it has taken over the role of sex education for many/most boys** these days, and it is horrible and very innacurate for that. There is a website about differences between sex with women shown in porn and sex with real women... .it was created by a woman who was attracted to young men (20s) but in her 40s or 50s... .and was APPALLED by some of the very common misinformation that her lovers had due to sex education through porn... .this was like a public service she was creating for all women (age appropriate or otherwise) who were attracted to younger men.

** Dunno about girls. Perhaps their bad sex education comes from romance novels more than porn?

[vre]

My kids have always had to put up with monitoring software on their devices. Nor are they allowed to install software. My focus wasn't so much on keeping track of where they were going specifically, but limiting their access to age-inappropriate content, and keeping some limits on how much time they can spend on the web.

I'm an engineer and I administer the network at work, so I've generally had no trouble staying a couple of steps ahead of my kids. OTOH, I've never had to deal with the level of effort WG's son put into evading restrictions.

I established from the outset that computer usage and web access and cell phones were privileges, that I provided mostly for their education and safety, and convenience, only very secondarily for entertainment and socializing. Non-essential usage was contingent on their good behavior and my own judgement of their best interest. If there was a problem, I would make whatever changes I thought were necessary, and that it would be my sole decision. It's far easier to establish that at the outset rather than having to revoke access the kid already got used to having/abusing.

My older daughter never had a problem with sketchy on-line behavior, but would waste too much time on-line. Having time limits on web usage was a help there. About the time she turned 18, I stopped with the monitoring, and told her so.

My younger daughter has had a few more problems. After I found out about her doing a little expletive-laden ranting on social media, she lost access to all of them for several months. Then she got back just two of them (all the other major ones blocked), but she had to friend me on those.

I would strongly recommend that you establish some ground rules, and put some controls in place before there's a problem. So much easier than having to do it after the fact.

[ImaFita]

I wouldn't micro-manage... I mean, monitor my child's online behaviour.

It is controlling, invasive and a breach of their rights as a human being.

It is something a borderline would do. But I would prefer to do the opposite.

I know people who monitor their children, and IMO (monitoring) is born out of an insecurity and a need to control.

Just my take on it.

[mywifecrazy]

I disagree with the last statement. Your kid is a kid and needs your guidance as a parent. You wouldn't let them explore drug usage because it's an invasion of their privacy? It's a fact that pornography is as addicting as cocaine and other drugs. It is an EPIDEMIC. Today's kids are bombarded with these images.

I would recommend Covenant Eyes software. I chose the monitoring as apposed to the blocking. It will not block anything but I get an email reporting any activity that goes beyond the age appropriate setting that I have. I even use the software for myself as I had issues with porn and don't want it in my life. Adult men easily become addicted to porn so it scares me what it can do to kids. Do some research for yourself on the Internet about porn addiction. The numbers are high. It's a billion dollar industry for a reason.

I do have to say that the key is to be able to have an open dialog with your son about it. He should be able to talk to you about it and you shouldn't make him feel guilty or weird for wanting to look at it. I used my sons getting caught looking at porn to talk about what a healthy sexual relationship is and that porn is just a perversion of healthy sex and how degrading it is and that it just portrays women as objects.

Good luck and good for you for being involved. Too many parents just gets their kids the smartphones without talking to them about the dangers. PS. Don't forget the video games like PLAYSTATION, they are computers and have full internet access.

[livednlearned]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I've been going in circles on this, so I decided to come up with a plan based on my own values, plus my specific dynamic with S13.

One thing occurred to me as I was thinking through this. I have a tendency to undermine his competence -- my codependent traits are really tricky when it comes to him. I'm working hard on this. Letting him experience consequences directly, not doing things for him that he can do himself, letting him solve problems he can solve.

I also know that this is one of those areas where he needs guidance. He's been taking a 9-week class about sexuality at our church with a small group of kids his age. He doesn't talk about the really awkward stuff, but he will ask me if I know what the lyrics to different songs are about. Usually I don't. He has a bit of a social justice streak, and feels some outrage about how demeaning the lyrics are. Mostly, they're demeaning to women, but in his mind, it is demeaning to him because people will think all boys are like that. I don't know if this means anything because who knows, maybe he feels guilty about looking at porn and is trying to camouflage how he feels in a cryptic way. But at least he is being exposed to the idea that sexuality is rooted in values, and there are different values, and some of them are not self-respecting. That's the most I can hope for. His psychiatrist told me that it's really important to keep the lines of communication open with S13 because he is a kid who cannot smoke pot, and probably can't drink, based on his predisposition to serious depression. So my job is to be there guiding him without shaming him. That's not easy now, and I can't imagine it will be easy later when and if he starts to experiment.

So my plan is to talk to the psychiatrist on my own to ask him if we can discuss this, the three of us, during one of S13's sessions. And see if we can come up with a plan together. Just like I do with his homework. We have a plan that mostly works, where he has freedom to manage his time on his own, but if there are 0s for missing assignments, then we shift into a system where I do more monitoring. There's more to it than that, but we came up with that together, so that he has a spectrum of privileges based on his ability to handle them. S13 is a pretty sensitive kid, so shaming him or getting mad at him, or steam rolling right over him -- none of that works. He goes into an emotional fetal position and the self-loathing turns into suicidal ideation.

I don't see why the same approach wouldn't work with porn. Where we talk about what is ideal: loving, caring, intimate sex with someone who respects herself and him. And then recognizing that looking at porn is something many men (and women) do. But the Internet has made this a problem for some people, and it can cause serious issues. Desensitizing, etc. And then come up with a plan that takes into account my concerns, my position as his parent, and setting something up so that he will talk to an adult if he is worried about what is "normal" and what to do if it starts to feel unhealthy.

It could be that I learn something in that session that affirms S13 has healthy feelings -- and it could also be that he promises he will talk to the psychiatrist if he has questions, because it will probably be very awkward to talk to me about this.

So for now, I'm not going to install anything. Not unless the psychiatrist has a different perspective on this. It could be that we set something up with a medium amount of monitoring, with consequences if he abuses his privileges. I don't know what it will be. I just want to make this into a conversation where S13 is involved so that he doesn't go underground with his behavior.