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Author Topic: Boundaries and Dysregulation  (Read 389 times)
Cole
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« on: February 20, 2015, 06:08:15 AM »

Isn't it fun to set a boundary when you know you will get a big heaping helping of dysregulation in return?

This morning I was up at 5am cleaning the kitchen for the second day in a row. Why, you ask? Because I took my son to his T last night and did not get home until late. Before leaving last evening, I asked BPDw to please clean the kitchen up so I would not have to do it when I got home or in the early AM. She said she would, but she did not do it. Instead, she sat in front of the computer messing around on FB all evening, just as she had the night before when I had to take our D to her church group meeting.

This morning she asked me what was wrong. I told her in a nice calm voice that I did not think it was fair she sat in front of the computer and left the kitchen a mess while I ran the kids to appointments and expected me to take care of it when I got home.

Immediate DYSREGULATION. Started yelling about how she does other things. How I blame everything on her. I told her I was only talking about the last two nights, nothing else. When I got out of the shower, she had drug the kids out of bed and had them cleaning the house. She ranted and raved about not getting any help (she does little around the house herself) and stormed off to work.       

So, how would you folks have handled it?

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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2015, 07:06:04 AM »

I have no idea how I would handle this. I think any sentence that includes something that could be seen with the least bit of criticism would cause a disregulation.

It's up to me to take kids where they need to go. Yes, sometimes I do zone out on the computer and leave the kitchen in a mess. The next morining, it's there waiting for me.

I remember in the early years of my marriage, I would be cleaning the kitchen after dinner, and my H would say " hey how about you take a break and watch TV with me". He really believed he was doing me a favor " see I gave you a break" - what a nice husband I am. Well, that break was that I could clean up the next morning. I tried to explain that a break was not really a break if it just meant to do it later- that a break for me would be if you helped me do it, or did it for me. That didn't go over well. Asking my H to clean the kitchen resulted in a rage- eventually I stopped asking. My H has done it a few times in our marriage, probably less than 10 times, and he still maintains that he does the dishes.

I really didn't expect my H to do this often. He is the main provider, and I appreciate that. My main job is taking care of the home and the kids. I think the difference is that his thinking about this is different, more rigid, and he also believes that if he gives in and does the dishes, that I will take advantage of him. It's hard to understand how they might think about these things.

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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2015, 10:01:22 AM »

I don't know how I would have handled it either. It's so frustrating expecting pwBPD to honor their word, particularly regarding household duties. Any time I've tried to confront my husband about something he has promised to do and hasn't done, it typically has caused a dysregulation, sometimes small, sometimes big. And then he's tried to guilt trip me by telling me all the things he does do. Of course, I no longer list all the things I do, but as I see it in your case and mine as well, it comes down to how much free time does each partner have and there's the inequality.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2015, 11:11:44 AM »

I'm sorry you went through this.  These issues crop up regularly in my r/s, too, and I am always at a loss for how to handle them. 

Sometimes I think we have to accept that a certain amount of dysregulation is going to happen, and sometimes we need to state our feelings knowing that the outcome won't be good.  Just be respectful and clear, try to not blame or give long winded explanations.  "you told me you would do this, you didn't do this."  Leave out the explanation of the facebook or whatever. 

My wife does the same exact thing.  She spends all day chatting texting facebook or whatever, the house is a wreck, I do 99% of the cleaning, then she complains that the house is a mess.  And when I bring this up, it's the same thing - she will list all the things she does for me.  And it's usually some stuff like "I ALWAYS HAVE TO PUT THE TOILET SEAT DOWN!"  or "YOU ALWAYS LEAVE DISHES ON THE COUTNER!"

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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 12:05:00 PM »

LOL, my H probably has the same complaint about me if I spend too much time on the computer. I'm not a neat freak but I do clean. However, no matter how messy it gets, it's still me who is going to have to deal with it.

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OffRoad
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2015, 03:04:33 AM »

There are a few ways I might have handled this.

1) Not let the mess bother you. I can manage this for a few days. On a free day, everyone cleans the kitchen.

2) Start to clean the kitchen before you leave and ask her to give you a hand. Ask her to finish up while you take childX to wherever. Once she has started she will probably finish.

3) This sometimes works with my husband. A chore chart. Then, all I have to do is say "Will you check and see whose turn it is to do X?"

4) Say " I depend on you to clean the kitchen when you agree you will do so. Is there something I can do to help remind you if you get sidetracked?"

I don't think she expected you to do it when you came home, FWIW. I think she just didn't think about it at all.
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Cole
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2015, 05:01:10 AM »

I remember in the early years of my marriage, I would be cleaning the kitchen after dinner, and my H would say " hey how about you take a break and watch TV with me". He really believed he was doing me a favor " see I gave you a break" - what a nice husband I am. Well, that break was that I could clean up the next morning.

Really can relate to that one! Often I will start doing something and she will say, "Leave it, I will take care of it." That is code for,"It will sit there for days until you do it at a less opportune time." I knew she was not going to do it when I left. She was on the computer with FB on one tab and Pinterest one another. The internet is like crack cocaine to her. 

I have tried to leave it to see how long it takes before she finally does what she promised to do. In November she tore a bunch of stuff out of the storage area in our basement looking for something. She promised to clean it up several times. It is now late February and the pile is still in the middle of the floor. I have swept around it several times.    

 

It is a rock and a hard place. Do you clean up after them and teach them they can treat you like that or do you set a boundary and face the dysreg?
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sweetheart
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 06:33:16 AM »

Hi cole,

What would your boundary be around this area ?

What OffRoad had written is how I feel about the situation - your w isn't even thinking about the cleaning at all, or that you will clean up after her it's just not important to her, it only becomes important if it is used as a vehicle for dysregulation.

Has your wife always been like this or is it something that's changed recently for her ?

If she's always been like this what is different for you at the moment that is making it more of an issue ?

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Crumbling
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 09:38:58 AM »

I told her in a nice calm voice that I did not think it was fair she sat in front of the computer and left the kitchen a mess while I ran the kids to appointments and expected me to take care of it when I got home.

 

These words would trigger my BPDh too.  For him it would translate into:  'You did something wrong.' - which puts him directly on the defensive.  

The more successful approach is to frame each sentence with 'I' statements, and to sandwich your concerns in affirmations.  Something like: "I'm really glad you have your friends and activities on fb/pinterest to make your days brighter.  Right now, tho, I am feeling really overwhelmed with carrying the household chores.  I really appreciate your contributions to keep things going well in the house, and I am missing them right now." ~~~something along these lines.
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Mike-X
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2015, 10:06:42 AM »

Isn't it fun to set a boundary when you know you will get a big heaping helping of dysregulation in return?

This morning I was up at 5am cleaning the kitchen for the second day in a row. Why, you ask? Because I took my son to his T last night and did not get home until late. Before leaving last evening, I asked BPDw to please clean the kitchen up so I would not have to do it when I got home or in the early AM. She said she would, but she did not do it. Instead, she sat in front of the computer messing around on FB all evening, just as she had the night before when I had to take our D to her church group meeting.

This morning she asked me what was wrong. I told her in a nice calm voice that I did not think it was fair she sat in front of the computer and left the kitchen a mess while I ran the kids to appointments and expected me to take care of it when I got home.

Immediate DYSREGULATION. Started yelling about how she does other things. How I blame everything on her. I told her I was only talking about the last two nights, nothing else. When I got out of the shower, she had drug the kids out of bed and had them cleaning the house. She ranted and raved about not getting any help (she does little around the house herself) and stormed off to work.       

So, how would you folks have handled it?

I am sorry for the dysregulation that you experienced here and for her not following through after agreeing to clean the kitchen. However, can you provide some clarification on what you mean by the boundary that was set in this case?

Also did you ask her about what she did instead of cleaning the kitchen and then provide validation of whatever the importance of that was to her before bringing up your disappoint about her not cleaning the kitchen? It sounds like you didn't  talk with her about it but just went in and started cleaning the kitchen. However, maybe I misread something.
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Mike-X
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2015, 10:07:53 AM »

I told her in a nice calm voice that I did not think it was fair she sat in front of the computer and left the kitchen a mess while I ran the kids to appointments and expected me to take care of it when I got home.

 

These words would trigger my BPDh too.  For him it would translate into:  'You did something wrong.' - which puts him directly on the defensive.  

The more successful approach is to frame each sentence with 'I' statements, and to sandwich your concerns in affirmations.  Something like: "I'm really glad you have your friends and activities on fb/pinterest to make your days brighter.  Right now, tho, I am feeling really overwhelmed with carrying the household chores.  I really appreciate your contributions to keep things going well in the house, and I am missing them right now." ~~~something along these lines.

Yes, nice example of providing validation first.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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flowerpath
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2015, 03:32:25 PM »

Hi, Cole. 

It is a rock and a hard place. Do you clean up after them and teach them they can treat you like that or do you set a boundary and face the dysreg?

Leaving messes and not sharing in household responsibilities... .I think that one root of this behavior could be lack of motivation.   It may not matter to them.  They may not even notice it. Even if they do notice or it does matter to them, it may seem like too large a task and the result after cleaning it may not be enough of a reward for the effort it will take.   My H asks, “What’s in it for me?”  or “Why can’t you get your boys to help you do that?” Our boys actually do help. He just doesn’t see it because he’s at work... .or if he’s at home, like your wife, he’s on the internet…

I have tried to leave it to see how long it takes before she finally does what she promised to do.

I have done that to the point of not being able to tolerate it any more.  Even counted up how many dirty bowls, plates, utensils, glasses, napkins, and candy wrappers he left on the floor while watching TV.  Finally realized that my bitterness about it wasn’t doing anyone any good.

This is what I had to do for my own peace of mind. 

I decided that in the end, what I really want about this house and yard is for them to be clean and organized and look good to me. 

I decided that it was simpler and healthier for me to radically accept that this is the way my H is, that this is part of his uBPD, that this is just one of those areas in which I am a caretaker, to do it myself as quickly as I can, and move on to something better.  He does do some things, but it is true that the imbalance in shared responsibility seems unfair.  When I start to feel taken advantage of or resentful or critical, for my own sanity, I try to stop that thought in the moment and ask myself, “OK, what has he done recently that’s good?  What little things has he done to help with anything?  What about him can I be thankful for?  What’s in it for me? ”  I’ve even turned it around and thought about what messes of my own I need to clean up, what I haven’t done that I need to do - the “log in my own eye” concept.   No, it’s not easy to intentionally think this way.

What’s in it for me?   The satisfaction of having a clean house and yard that look good to me, a reward of visual order that gives me a sense of peace, the feeling of freedom after a thing is done, and it was done without an argument. 

I wait until he is not around to clean up the messes that he leaves behind.  Cleaning it up in front of him, even if I don’t say a word, is invalidating and will trigger a negative response. I don't even want to go there.  When he sees that his mess is no longer there, sometimes he thanks me, sometimes he says to leave his stuff alone, sometimes doesn’t say a word, and sometimes will make some effort to keep it that way….for a day or so…

Even if I have to be the one who cleans it up, I still win.  My personal boundary is that I won’t succumb to living with the kind of mess that he is comfortable with.

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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 03:45:23 PM »

I'm kind of a neat freak, not always a 100% clean and tidy freak, but it really bugs me when my husband creates chaos in an area that I keep orderly. It feels like an insult or an attack, but I realize it doesn't mean that to him and he probably doesn't even notice the disorder. I tolerate it for a while, but then, in the case of all the magazines, books and mail he leaves around, I'll pick it up and take it over to his studio and put it in a pile, and he'll get upset that I'm cluttering up his already messy space with his stuff.

The irony is that he used to complain about living with his ex-wife and that she'd leave stuff all over the kitchen--piles of newspapers and catalogs. Now he does exactly the same.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Cole
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2015, 06:48:28 PM »

The boundary I am trying to set is that I should not have to handle all aspects of our lives while she sits in front of the computer. It is not just about the kitchen; she does nothing around the house, with the kids, or with me when she gets into these FB/Pinterest episodes, which can last for weeks or months. I am really beginning to hate social media!
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flowerpath
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2015, 07:49:00 PM »

It must really feel like she’s taking advantage of you.   I know how frustrating it is to shoulder most of the responsibility at home while the able-bodied spouse sits in front of a screen.   

Since she agrees to do it (that’s a pretty good sign!), but then doesn’t – gets distracted, loses track of time, can’t pull herself away from what’s more fun - do you think talking with her while she's in a good mood will help? Like maybe before you want to ask her to do something? 

What Crumbling suggested is similar to the D.E.A.R.M.A.N. tool that’s used when there is something specific that you want.   

D.E.A.R.M.A.N. is used when you have an objective, you want something specific, such as to get more sleep, to have help with the chores, to affect a change or to say NO to a request. You want the other person to come away feeling good about you and not full of resentment. This preserves the relationship. You also want to protect or even enhance your self respect. “

Have you seen that workshop?  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=160566.0

(Honestly, I haven't used that tool yet, but can think of a couple of ways it might help me.)

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Cole
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2015, 05:48:19 AM »

flowerpath,

Have not seen that particular lesson yet. I will check it out. Thank you!
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flowerpath
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2015, 08:53:18 AM »

You're welcome.  We're all learning.  One day at a time... .
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