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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
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Setting Boundaries
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Author Topic: Need help understanding ... please  (Read 432 times)
ripps
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« on: February 20, 2015, 06:57:26 AM »

Just so confused. We have a minor disagreement and she completely disengages like we never said "I love you". When i try to compromise everything is turned back on me. Instead of saying "I'm upset about our disagreement" she is now saying she's "not happy in the relationship" but won't break up with me. She has completely pulled away and I don't know what to do ... .What action to take ... .I just called after 12 hours of silence and that didn't work (she said I'm "all drama" she's as cold as ever. Do I ignore her back?  Please help. Thank you.
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2015, 07:52:42 AM »

Hi Rparkel, 

Welcome aboard.  I am sorry that you are going through this.  I completely understand how confusing and frustrating contradictory behavior is.     It is very confusing when our person with BPD (pwBPD) disengages after a disagreement.  The push/pull behavior is very frustrating. I get very frustrated when my bf pulls away and acts indifferent and cold.

The core of BPD is emotional dysregulation. PwBPD have a very hard time regulating their emotions/feelings.  When a pwBPD is dysregulating many times they cannot cope with the intensity of the feelings.  They revert to coping mechanisms, such as projection and avoidance to avoid their feelings. It is very hard for the non disordered partner to understand this behavior when they have no knowledge of BPD.  Fortunately, we have this site to understand and to improve our relationship with our pwBPD.

Communication tools are a lifesaver when talking to a pwBPD. They have helped through many times when my bf was pushing me away.  Here is some information to check out. 

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

Could you perhaps tell us more about what happened during the phone conversation?
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2015, 08:15:25 AM »

Thank you eagles juju. She disengages when we have an argument, but this felt different. The argument was Sunday and she's been acting distant for far longer. I get emails from a family account to help her with emails from her ex. I checked it for her yesterday as she was at work. She wrote her sister "I'm still with him but not happy about it". I asked her about it and she said I'm overreacting, she's just tired of arguing. She went silent again and I called her early this morning to say we should talk / you should tell me what's really going on. She told me she's tired of the drama (which she creates over a little disagreement ... .projection). I said is that it ... .she was silent then said "yes, I'll talk to you ... .silence ... .Later". That's not like us, we usually text off and on throught the day. She's also now blocked me from her email account she specifically gave me access to a year ago.
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ripps
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2015, 08:17:49 AM »

I should note ... .the ex I check her emails for is her ex husband of 22 years who is aspd / narcissist.
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Crumbling
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 08:47:58 AM »

   and Welcome!

Welcome

It sounds like you've got red flags going off in your head.  I'm glad your here and sharing.      Have you been with your person with BPD (pwBPD) long? 

Have you come across the term JADE in your readings here on this site?  To JADE is to

Justify, Argue, Defend and Explain yourself.  Our gut reaction is to take these steps when communicating with our significant other (SO), but I've learned from this site that this can actually be making things worse.

A dysregulated pwBPD, like your... .wife? gf?... .is not in an emotional state to be able to follow the logic around JADEing and it just confuses them more.  I know, it sounds counter-intuitive, but it's true.  Smiling (click to insert in post)  May be something to investigate while you're stewing    The link on the right side of this page, "Before you can make anything better" is a great place to start learning.

Another trait pwBPD exhibit is that they like to paint the SO in their life with completely good or completely bad.  Here we use the terms black and white thinking.  It sounds like you've had a taste of being painted black.      It feels awful and completely unfair and you don't deserve that.   

Have you had any indications that perhaps there is something else going on in the r/s that has pushed her into this silent treatment?  Like perhaps something with the ex? 

We've all been there, Rparkel.  It's a tough road to walk.  I'm so glad you've found us, now you don't have to walk it alone!   

Crumbsy
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 08:53:13 AM »

She disengages when we have an argument, but this felt different. The argument was Sunday and she's been acting distant for far longer. I get emails from a family account to help her with emails from her ex. I checked it for her yesterday as she was at work. She wrote her sister "I'm still with him but not happy about it". I asked her about it and she said I'm overreacting, she's just tired of arguing. She went silent again and I called her early this morning to say we should talk / you should tell me what's really going on. She told me she's tired of the drama (which she creates over a little disagreement ... .projection). I said is that it ... .she was silent then said "yes, I'll talk to you ... .silence ... .Later". That's not like us, we usually text off and on throught the day. She's also now blocked me from her email account she specifically gave me access to a year ago.

I completely understand how this time may feel a bit different.  

It seems that she may be dysregulating at the moment.  :)uring dysregulation a pwBPD has high emotional sensitivity and intense responses to any emotional stimuli. For a disordered person, their emotions are magnified and intensified by 1000. Emotional dysregulation affects a pwBPD's behavior. The most common behavioral reactions to emotional situations are withdraw and avoidance. The majority of the time heightened emotional reactions are a result of something innocuous.  

From my experience, I have given my bf a little of space when he is dysregulating. It usually gives him the time to work through his feelings. His bouts of dysregulation and accompanying cognitions, emotions, and behavior vacillates.  There have been times when he has disengaged for a week or so. When I have had heavy duty discussions when he was dysregulating, it usually ended up unfavorable.  

Have you ever given her a bit of space before?  Is this something that you would want to do?  
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 09:02:45 AM »

Thanks all. I have tried space but not for very long ... .as it doesn't seem to work, she gets more upset thinking I don't care about her when in reality she is distant. The only thing that has worked in the past is when I suck up feeling invalidated and spend time with her showing her i lover her and helping her come out of it slowly. But maybe this time I'm just not ready to do that.
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ripps
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 09:04:53 AM »

And to crumbling. I've been with her over a year. She's my girlfriend. And these episodes seem to be getting closer together and worse.
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 09:15:38 AM »

Thanks all. I have tried space but not for very long ... .as it doesn't seem to work, she gets more upset thinking I don't care about her when in reality she is distant. The only thing that has worked in the past is when I suck up feeling invalidated and spend time with her showing her i lover her and helping her come out of it slowly. But maybe this time I'm just not ready to do that.

  This is totally in your right, and may be quite healthy.  I've let myself get too emotionally strained by my BPD husband many times before.  Recognizing that you need to do things different this time is a great place to start.
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2015, 09:24:14 AM »

And to crumbling. I've been with her over a year. She's my girlfriend. And these episodes seem to be getting closer together and worse.

Are you hoping to make things work, or are you ready to walk away?  I guess that would have been a good question to ask first... .in your first post you said, 'she won't leave'.  We're just people of like experiences here and not experts  

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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2015, 09:31:56 AM »

Thank you all. So much. I don't want to leave at all. But she's making me feel like she does so I have no choice ... .I'm confused. She's never been this "heavy" with the distance / pulling away.
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2015, 09:57:26 AM »

Thanks all. I have tried space but not for very long ... .as it doesn't seem to work, she gets more upset thinking I don't care about her when in reality she is distant. The only thing that has worked in the past is when I suck up feeling invalidated and spend time with her showing her i lover her and helping her come out of it slowly. But maybe this time I'm just not ready to do that.

I understand how giving her space might trigger her abandonment fears. 

I think you are right, trying something different might be the answer. I was doing the same thing over and over again with my bf. I was constantly "fixing" his problems and many times I ended up feeling invalidated.

There are ways to validate our pwBPD and not having to "suck up" or invalidating our own feelings. Learning how to communicate with validation has not only helped me with my bf, but other people in my life. It is almost a win-win situation. Take a look at this article.

 

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Let us know what you think.

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"In order to take control of our lives and accomplish something of lasting value, sooner or later we need to Believe. We simply need to believe in the power that is within us, and use it." -Benjamin Hoff
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2015, 10:20:59 AM »

So then the evidence suggests that perhaps what was thought to be working maybe wasn't working all that great, if things have been getting worse.      Oh, that may sting to hear, and I'm sorry if it does.  And I'm not saying you did anything wrong.  It makes complete logical sense to believe that unselfish love would help any situation, but sometimes with pwBPD, it creates a dynamic where she may have been leaning on you to 'help' her in areas where it would have been healthier in the long run for her to help herself.

Has she been formally diagnosed with BPD?  Do either of you have any emotionally support, ie therapy or something?  Do you have others that know about your situation that you can talk things over with?  These things are so helpful when dealing with a tough r/s.

~That's a great article, Eagles!  Good suggestion!

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ripps
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2015, 11:17:09 AM »

Thank you all. Thanks to you and my therapist (who has told me she's borderline but not high on the spectrum - for some time) I have sent her a text validating her feelings / admitted my role in some of them and putting the ball in her court by asking her if she needs space (emphasizing that it's ok if she does). Now I move on and see what happens not worrying either way.
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ripps
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 12:07:35 PM »

Letting you know. She just replied, has turned back into a loving / caring person. Not sure how I should feel as completely confirms the disorder. Like magic she's back to normal. Unbelievable.
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 12:25:56 PM »

Ha!  Jeckle and Hyde all the way!  And it only took an hour!   Smiling (click to insert in post)  wow, never ceases to amaze me. 

   Great job with dealing with things, tho!  Good to hear she's back to 'normal' and you have your T working with you.  Smiling (click to insert in post)   

 

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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 12:54:00 PM »

Thanks crumbling and Eagles. You two rock!  My therapist said it was /is great I came on here. In addition he and I are going to work on if I should stay in the relationship / what's best for me. Thanks again.
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2015, 02:04:40 PM »

Letting you know. She just replied, has turned back into a loving / caring person. Not sure how I should feel as completely confirms the disorder. Like magic she's back to normal. Unbelievable.

It is unbelievable how a pwBPD can do a 180. Validation, it works!  The tools are useful and valuable.

It is great that you have a therapist that is working with you. 

This site has incredible resources and support. 
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2015, 02:18:29 PM »

Thanks all. I have tried space but not for very long ... .as it doesn't seem to work, she gets more upset thinking I don't care about her when in reality she is distant. The only thing that has worked in the past is when I suck up feeling invalidated and spend time with her showing her i lover her and helping her come out of it slowly. But maybe this time I'm just not ready to do that.

If you look to her for validation, it is likely that you will be disappointed. I have been with my husband fr 16.5 years and I have spent lots and lots of time chasing after him for validation. It doesn't work. I have to find ways to validate myself (easier said than done). And, I try to find ways to validate him without invalidating myself. That has been a source of great confusion for me. How can I validate myself without invalidating my partner? Or, in reverse, how can I validate my partner without invalidating myself? There are some great tools in the lessons. There is one that is specifically about communication tools. It is taking me a while to wrap my mind around some of the lessons and actually put them into practice.

It is okay to not be ready to do that. I fell into the trap of feeling like I had to put myself aside to pull my husband out of whatever funk he was in. If I feel up to and am in a good place, I will still do it. If not, I try to validate him and listen to him but I won't engage until I am in a place where I can do it in a more healthy manner.
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2015, 07:05:27 AM »

Hi all. So we got together last night. As I said, she was all "normal" after i validated her yesterday ... .like magic her week of distance and anger vanished. But something weird happened. We were making love and she says "you're mine". Never said that before. Creepy. What is that about?  I know she's not a narcissist ... .my dad was one ... .very strange.
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2015, 11:16:06 AM »

How did you respond in the moment?  Does she know her words left you confused? 

The more validation you give her, the more she may open up to you, but I don't know if this is her wanting to open a conversation about something.  Only she can answer why she said this.   Can you ask her?

Sometimes if you frame a question in a certain way, it can help... .Formflier has a good one he calls the 'help me understand... .' way.   I used a similar technique for a long time before I found this site- my huh?/ dumb look response.   , that I've since better honed to include other elements.  It tends to help, but only if the pwBPD is in a good head space.  I guess it's about stating your confusion with honesty, but without an opening for 'blame' of any kind.

It's important to keep away from dialogue that she may hear as a threat/ invalidation... ."Why did you say that?" could be heard as "you were wrong to say this" and put her on the defensive.  Bad idea.

Oh, and sandwich what you say in positives/validations... .something like, "Making love last night was great, I'm happy that we're connecting again.  When you said X, I was left confused and I'm hoping you can help me understand why you said that.  I want to keep the closeness we have right now and hope clearing the air on this will keep it that way."  Use your words, tho, right?  Hope something here helps.

Are there any kids involved? 
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2015, 11:19:25 AM »

Hi all. So we got together last night. As I said, she was all "normal" after i validated her yesterday ... .like magic her week of distance and anger vanished. But something weird happened. We were making love and she says "you're mine". Never said that before. Creepy. What is that about?  I know she's not a narcissist ... .my dad was one ... .very strange.

Ripps,

There is a bit of relationship power negotiation likely happening here. Consciously or subconsciously she is testing you. This happens in all romantic relationships.

She was upset (rightly or wrongly). You responded by over-pursuing.  Her comment in bed may have been innocent or it may have been an emotional sigh that she realizes that she has gained more power over you.

Strength is a very important part of being in these relationships.

So here is what played out - you did something.  Rather than seek resolution, she cast you as a "persecutor".  You immediately jumped up to rescue.  You jumped and down until she was satisfied she had total control, and then was soothed.

We all do this.  It doesn't serve us well.

The problem is, do this for a few years and she'll have you chasing your tail and will lose respect for you.

We reward defeating behavior.

Personally, I'd forget about the comment in bed - chasing after it is more over-pursuing.

Lets do a postmortem - so how might ripp have responded to her initial anger and maintained the right level of presence without over-pursuing and ceding power (door matting)?  

Skip

P.S. Understanding extinction bursts is part of the solution.  So is the ability to give space and knowing when she has had enough.
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2015, 01:30:29 PM »

She went silent again and I called her early this morning to say we should talk / you should tell me what's really going on. She told me she's tired of the drama (which she creates over a little disagreement ... .projection). I said is that it ... .she was silent then said "yes, I'll talk to you ... .silence ... .Later". That's not like us, we usually text off and on throught the day. She's also now blocked me from her email account she specifically gave me access to a year ago.

People who suffer from BPD live in constant drama internally.  She is likely feeling more vulnerable the longer you date and the more she depends on you.  Taking on the responsibility of "managing" her email account or relationship problems with her ex is not something I would recommend or do myself. 

Another thing jumps out at me in this post is the use of the word "should".   To a person with BPD or any sensitive person this word is a signal that they did something wrong or weren't doing something right.  It invites a defensive posture and defiance... avoid it!

As a mother to a daughter suffering from traits of BPD there have been many times she has gone quiet on me... .I let her know I'm here when she is ready to talk and I love her... .and then I wait.  I don't push her.  If I have made a mistake that upset her I apologize and validate that I understand why she would be upset with me.  That is all I can do without fanning flames or being a doormat.  I'm not responsible for her feelings... .only how I might or do contribute to them.

lbj

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