Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 01:00:24 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
84
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: ... Pants on Fire  (Read 426 times)
Ulysses
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 239


« on: February 24, 2015, 02:10:32 AM »

I think perhaps that my NPD/BPDexH has been teaching the children (S11 D6) through actions, that it's ok to lie. 

Recently he took the kids out of state and it appears to me they were instructed to not tell me where they were.  S11 did tell me when I asked, (I checked with my lawyer to see if it was ok for me to ask) and once he told me, our conversations were great.  He and D6 could talk to me openly and excitedly about their mid-winter vacation with their dad.

Tonight D6 talked about how dad coached her/practiced with her on how to lie about her age at the amusement park they were at, so she and S11 could go on a ride without an adult.  D6 told me this and then said, "I don't know why they have those rules.  They're stupid."  I answered, "They have those rules for safety.  So that you're not in danger on the rides."  And then I couldn't help myself.  I told her I wouldn't have made that choice for her, because I don't want to endanger her.

(Last year at this time he took them tubing and lied to the operator about her age, in front of her, so she could go down the mountain without an adult.)

Does anyone have thoughts on my last comment, that it might be better to not tell here what I would have done?  Is it better to stop earlier and let her mull it over?  Or say something different?  Sweep it under the rug? 

Also, in general, does your child's other parent teach deceitful behavior?  Do you address it with your child?  Their therapist?  If so, how do you address it with your child?  Maybe there are resources on this site that I haven't found?  If your kids are older and they've seen this behavior with a parent, how did it turn out?  Did they pick up the dishonesty trait or did they grow to be honest young adults?

S11 has started lying about homework over the last few months.  I'm working on it with him, his teachers, and therapist.  School counselor is next week.  I've mentioned it diplomatically to his dad but I don't have hope it will be handled the way I'm comfortable with so I've not gotten into long discussions with him about my concerns.  I'm afraid he'll either come down really hard on S11, or tell him it's ok, he doesn't have to worry about turning in homework, he needs to focus on having fun with friends (he's reacted in both ways in the past, depending, I guess, on his mood or where he appears to be in his cycling).
Logged
enlighten me
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3289



« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 03:13:54 AM »

My ex wife got my eldest to lie to me a lot. I could tell they werent comfottable about it so I had a chat with them. I told them I would never get them to lie for me as it wasnt fair on them. I said if there was something I didnt want their mum to know then I wouldnt let them know as it isnt fair to put them in that situation. This made tthem a lot more relaxed and they actually told their mum they werent going to keep secrets for her so she shouldnt involve them. I was very proud of them for this. After the chat they were a lot happier and a lot more open. When I called them they were more relaxed and more talkative. Not about stuff their mum does but in general. The fact they had a secret made them close up on all topics as they were scared of saying something they werent meant to.
Logged

bravhart1
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 653


« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 11:36:57 AM »

Yes, SD6's bio mom asks her, teaches her and instructs her to lie all the time. It's one of the reasons she's got minimal visitation time. But to hear bio mom talk, we are the liars.

She projects even the most ridiculous lies that are easily proven, but no one seems to care.

I think that's one of the hardest things we have to deal with on a daily basis is that bio mom will lie just to cloud the water and it leaves the rest of us scrambling around trying to disprove or figure out why the lie was told. I call it "keeping us busy with her".

Unfortunately it works for her more times than I like to think about. While every one who matters (therapists, judges, mediators) knows she's lying, no consequence is ever given, so what's the down side for her? She knows she gets to say whatever dumb thing she feels like throwing out there and we just have to roll with it.
Logged
enlighten me
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3289



« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 11:58:37 AM »

Hi bravhart

Actions speak louder than words.  By showing SD that you dont lie she will eventually see through her mums lies.

Children like boundaries it makes them feel safe. By having a boundary of not lieing she will respect you and feel safe in the knowledge that she doesnt have to doubt your word.
Logged

bravhart1
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 653


« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 12:11:17 PM »

Yes, I agree. Thank you for reminding me.

As you may be able to tell by my tone here, I'm pretty fed up and disgusted by the childish drama we must endure because she is sick. I think I was more sympathetic to her a year or two ago, but it's so unrelenting that I've become jaded.

My quality of life is impaired and I don't see an end in sight. I feel as though everyday I am faced with the dilemma of being with the husband and family I love or putting up with her constant assaults and being miserable.

Not much of a choice some days. And no room for me to just have a bad day or deal with my own problems, that seems like a luxury. Disgusting.
Logged
livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 12731



« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 12:19:42 PM »

I can't remember what book I read this in -- Divorce Poison, I think. About how important it is to start teaching your kids about the difference between privacy, secrets, lies, withholding, and just plain forgetting. At the heart of alienation is a big ball of lies, and you can't be spending all your time telling your kids which lie is true, which one is false, how you would handle it, what your morals are. It's sort of like teaching a man to fish instead of fishing for him. You have to teach the kids how to fish by giving them really solid understand of what lying is, what it looks like. If you get caught in the middle defending yourself, the kids will start to apply your logic to you, and that's a bad place to be -- they'll think you're just like your ex. My son did this and it felt awful.

So I started to use examples from shows, or gave him examples, little exercises to work through whether something was about privacy, secrets, or a lie. S13 actually really got into it. He started to come up with examples on his own. I think he liked it because it's confusing to deal with someone who lied like his dad did, and the exercises helped S13 figure out how to tell the difference. It came in very handy this year when S13 was experiencing severe depression, and the guidance counselor told him it was ok to lie to friends if he wanted to say he didn't feel good and had to see the nurse (and then slip in to see the counselor). S13 immediately understood that this was an acceptable lie because we had worked through it -- he knows that sometimes kids have to use white lies to protect themselves, especially from other middle schoolers who can't be trusted to put their friends feelings first.

I did this work every day for months, and it bore fruit. When S13 was going through some of the hardest stuff with his dad, including false allegations that my current SO is a pedophile, S13 just rolled his eyes. "N/BPDx just says that stuff to make me not like you."

That, plus validation, will go a long way with this alienation BS. It's hard at first, but it will start to become easier. And the kids aren't going to know that you're doing it because of their dad. They're going to think it's a key to understanding how the world works. Which it does  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged

Breathe.
enlighten me
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3289



« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2015, 12:31:01 PM »

Hi bravhart

From some of your other posts ive read it seems as if your husbands ex is still wielding a lot of power. Your husband needs to have boundaries and enforce them for all your sakes.

Its easy to let things slide for an easy life but ultimately it will only make things more difficult.

Like a child a pwBPD will push boundaries and where they find weakness they will keep pushing.

The stress of her behaviour is obvous. You need to limit her impact on your life. This means she has to stick to her timings. Only contact through text or email. Follow to the letter any court judgements.

By minimising your interactions you will reduce the stress. By not reacting to her behaviour you will make it not worth her doing it. Any behavioyr that needs addressing should be done through proper channels.

Your SD behaviour will still be worrying but believe me stable parents have a greater influence on a child than unstable ones. Its not something tgat happens overnight and may even only be acknowledged when the child has grown up but they will appreciate everything you do for them.
Logged

Rubies
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 638


« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2015, 05:51:07 PM »

The problem my kids had with BPDxh's lying was the double standard he enforced.  Their lying was a spanking offense.  His lying became nonstop in their lives.  Lying to DD caused her to lose all respect for him.  Lying to her is one reason she chose to go NC when she turned 18.

At least your child is honest with you about the lies.   Idea  BPDxh tried getting DD to keep secrets from me.  I could tell she was uncomfortable about something so I asked.  I already knew from another source.   He was taking her out of state, "but don't tell mom."  These are safety issues that fall under the topic, No More Secrets for Me.  We had a good talk about her comfort level and safety strategies.

My strategy for dealing with it was to never lie to my children.  Stay calm and nonjudgmental, be open to discuss anything and everything they need to share with me.  Ask what they would like me to do.  Let them handle it if that's what they want, back them fully in their choices.   Laugh with my kids to help keep the stress down.
Logged
PinkieV
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 200



« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2015, 05:52:56 PM »

My SS14 is told to lie to us all the time, I'm sure.  He almost bit his own tongue off when he accidentally almost told us his uBPDm had a new job (we knew anyways).  It was like he was gulping back the words, he was so panicked, and she lives two states away.

He approached me last week and told me his mom and half sister had asked him to come visit over Spring Break, although his doesn't coincide with hers.  He asked, almost begged, if we were doing anything, then told me he had told them that he had finals right after the break and needed to study.  So while it's a lie, it's self-preservation, and I believe that is okay.  We also decided to "lie by omission" and not mention that his mom's sister and her family were coming to visit over their Spring Break.  They are NC with mom, and it would be awful for my SS14 if his mom found out he saw them.  I think he feels safe knowing we have his back.

On the other hand, last month he was relating a story where uBPDm found a way to double coupons by accident when a store's registers were programmed wrong, and she was basically getting groceries for pennies on the dollar.  According to him, she did it a few times.  I simply said "wow, that poor store, losing all that money.  I hope a lot of other people didn't take advantage."  He sort of blinked, and then realized how inappropriate it really was.  So we have these little moments of trying to guide him in the right direction.  Of course, mom going to prison for embezzlement really helped!  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged
Ulysses
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 239


« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 02:08:47 AM »

It's been a long time since I originally posted, but I want to say I very much appreciate all of your replies.

Enlighten Me, you did enlighten me with your first post. 
Excerpt
I told them I would never get them to lie for me as it wasnt fair on them. I said if there was something I didnt want their mum to know then I wouldnt let them know as it isnt fair to put them in that situation.

  This sounds fair in general.  It seems like it gives the children a message that they're safe with you.

Lived 'n Learned, I'll look for that book.  I like how you did exercises with your son. 

Rubies, when I learn to always stay calm, I feel like I'll have reached the last stage of enlightenment.  I'm much, much better at staying calm, and I really think it has a lot to do with being away from my ex, good therapy, and being aware of my mindset. 

Bravhart, I'm sorry for the stress your SD mom brings to your life. 

Thanks for you responses.  This is a marathon and I'm finding strength from many sources, including this site and all of you.
Logged
catclaw
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 159



« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 04:13:33 AM »

Rubies, when I learn to always stay calm, I feel like I'll have reached the last stage of enlightenment.  I'm much, much better at staying calm, and I really think it has a lot to do with being away from my ex, good therapy, and being aware of my mindset. 

Congratulations, Ulysses, the first steps are done Smiling (click to insert in post) As soon as the stress doesn't get your stomach upset anymore, it will get easier. Keep up that good work, we are all proud of you! 
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!