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Author Topic: How to deal with threats of suicide when used to manipulate? (HELP)  (Read 1127 times)
catanaition

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« on: February 26, 2015, 01:44:41 PM »

My best friend/room mate is the person in my life with BPD. One of her major triggers is me going out with friends/dating and last night I told her I was going out tonight and it resulted in a huge tantrum, self harm and threats of suicide. While these in themselves are not unusual I broke our pattern last night by having someone else come in to our apartment to check on her rather than going to her myself. Today she is still in panic mode and left work out of the blue. My sister is her co-worker and is currently out looking for her.

If I cancel my plans I feel like I'm telling her these actions worked to get the result she wanted (whether intentional or not) but I feel like a bag of ___ for thinking about going out when things are this bad. I don't know what to do.
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JohnLove
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 02:37:44 PM »

Hello catanaition, welcome to bpdfamily. I have had to deal with emotional blackmail by suicide threat. She feels she is going to "lose" you. That is HER disordered thinking that may become her reality if she continues... .or rather your SHARED reality.

Breaking the pattern, or trying different things is great. Trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is... .?

If she isn't diagnosed it is highly likely she is suffering BPD. She is your best friend/room mate NOT your responsibility. Your responsibility to her when she is dysregulating in this way if you are concerned is to check that she is safe and call for help or even an ambulance if she is not.

You have behaved like a true friend by your actions. You are allowed free will and the chance to live your life. I would give her some distance by practicing detaching with love.

You will see that her highly dysregulated emotional state will soon return to baseline (whatever that is) and you pair can pick up the pieces of your relationship at that time.

Read the tools here. Validate her feelings. That should help significantly. Let you know you care but not enough to ruin your own life. If that makes sense.

Take care of yourself.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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momtara
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 02:44:02 PM »

This is difficult. By setting boundaries and showing tough love, you can also put someone at risk. I get it. I don't have an answer - just wanted to say that it's definitely a dilemma. I think sometimes an outside person has to be made aware that this person is threatening suicide.
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InSearchofMe
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 12:28:59 AM »

As I have heard many times on this board.  1) always take suicide threats seriously 2). You are not equipped to deal with this, so you should involve professionals.  Call the police and have them do a wellness check.  Tell them what is going on.  Making yourself hostage to these threats will not help either one of you.
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Theo41
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 02:21:11 AM »

I believe I am a caretaker and also an enabler. I believe I was selected by my uBPDw for these traits. Yes I did ask her to marry me, but several years later I heard the expression: "The man chases the woman until she catches him."

My uBPDwife is a terrific person in many respects but extremely difficult to live with. The pluses outweigh the negatives, but I'm sure friends look at us and say :"why does he put up with her? I wouldn't tolerate that for a minute." Yet I come to this site and read others stories and say the same  thing about them. The dysregulation sounds even worse than in my relationship AND... .AND they are not married and no children! Give those circumstances I would feel compelled to consider ending the relationship.

We have to answer the question: who and what is my primary responsibility. The answer for most well adjusted, mature people who have some experience in life comes down this way: I have to take care of myself first. If I don't do that and put the other person first because they are sick and needy, ultimately I will become unhappy, sick myself and in the end unable to help anyone including myself.

Calling someone's bluff on a suicide threat is very difficult and dangerous. I did it once several years ago when she got up on a chair on the balcony. I was very angry with her at the moment and felt very strongly at a gut level that she was trying to pull my chain. I ignored her and the result was that she got down an pulled herself together. The best course of action, however, was recommended by "in search of me " below: call the police and allow the professionals to hanldle it. I hope some of what I have shared helps. Theo
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waverider
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2015, 06:26:02 AM »

We have a workshop on this topic yo might want to read

TOOLS: Dealing with threats of Suicide and Suicide Attempts
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 07:08:04 AM »

 

I am glad you have found bpdfamily.

I think we can help you improve your r/s and your life.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the workshop that Waverider posted about.  I'll be looking out for your next post.

FF
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momtara
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2015, 08:59:22 AM »

You might also keep a tape recorder so you have proof someday, if you want to make sure the person gets help.  You may not have to use it, but it can't hurt.
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JohnLove
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2015, 05:09:51 PM »

Oh yes. I recommend a miniature personal digital recorder or MP3 player with this function or even a recorder app on your phone. Some of these situations are so outlandish that if they don't have a diagnosis, and even if they do may result in overzealous authorities charging you with assault... .or worse... .manslaughter or murder. Gulp.
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NGU
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2015, 08:30:02 AM »

I recommend a miniature personal digital recorder or MP3 player with this function or even a recorder app on your phone. Some of these situations are so outlandish that if they don't have a diagnosis, and even if they do may result in overzealous authorities charging you with assault... .or worse... .manslaughter or murder. Gulp.

Wow. Since two of you mentioned this... .

While I firmly believe that recording someone without their permission is bad, I have to admit that I did it for the first time last week. My wife had shut down one night, and couldn't even get off the couch to get food. I set up my cell phone to record audio while I went to the grocery store. I also have been looking into buying spy-type video surveillance cameras. I'm paranoid about being blamed for anything that might happen down the road, and that seems like the only solution to ease my fears, since I can't go to any of her relatives or friends. 

I'm probably going to h-e-double-hockey-sticks for this one, but I also went through her email. I really can't suggest that to anyone, considering the amount of horrible things she was telling her friends about me. I know a lot of things she says aren't her real feelings, but it really affected me in a negative way. I would love more input from anyone on this.

Mods: please let me know if I strayed too far off the original topic. Maybe I missed a related thread.
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catanaition

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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2015, 06:16:01 PM »

Hi everyone,

This last week has been... .it was bad. Things have stabilized but it made me realise that I cannot keep doing this the way we have been doing it. Tonight I will be having a talk with her about the future of our friendship and co-habitation and right now I have no idea if it will set off another rage/grief cycle or if it will be constructive but I'm really hoping that the increase in attention to the issue from all of us in her life might drive her to finally get help rather than relying entirely on her relationship with me.

If it doesn't then I think it will be time to part ways and I know that will be scary and sad for both of us for different reasons. I really appreciate everyone's response here and it was heartening when I was dealing with the worst of it to have outside voices saying "No actually this situation/these actions is not okay."

Wish me luck
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2015, 07:21:56 PM »

 

Good luck.

I hope you can come back soon and post how your talk went.

FF
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2015, 08:26:02 PM »

Keep in mind whatever she says today may not apply tomorrow. Empty promises and threats are quite normal. It is very hard to be conclusive when things depend on someone with BPD.
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catanaition

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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 11:14:28 AM »

Things went much better than I was anticipating. Obviously she was upset but we were able to actual come up out of the sadness and actually have a pretty okay night afterwards even if at the very end there was some backsliding to physically clingy behaviors that I haven't seen from her in a long time (emotional clingy-ness being much more common).

I haven't received any indications that she will take the steps that I have asked her to (really just attempting therapy) but I was at least able to say "These specific actions are not okay and I will do these specific actions to assert my boundaries when they happen."

Jealous rages -> I will not engage with her during these times and I will still go out and (try) to have a good time.

Self harm in conjunction with suicide threats/saying she wants to die -> I will take her seriously and I will call an ambulance. Her life is worth more to me than the possible cost of an ambulance ride.

Attempting/attending therapy -> I will take time after sessions to check in with her/support her and do something relaxing with her

No attempts to make changes -> I will not live with her once our lease is up (end of May).

I will also be trying to add some structure to my life for bother her sake and for mine (I work much better when plans are concrete) and scheduling my life a bit so that I have time to do all the things I like while still setting time aside to make her feel loved and appreciated.

Evenings something like this... .

Monday - Aquacise or other fitness activity (new activity)

Tuesday - Game night with my sister and roommate (already established)

Wednesday - Day off: Therapy (for me), household chores and relaxation time.

Thursday - Possibilty of going out or having alone time. This will be the set day that I do not spend with her at all except in passing.

Friday - Set night to spend time with room mate and do whatever activity she would like to do.

Saturday - Possibilty of going out, otherwise spent with room mate.

Sunday - Day off: Relaxation day

Hoping that following up a 'spending time away from you' day with a day of spending time together will give her something to look forward too rather than wallow in the projections of her opinions of her self worth onto me. I'm not hopeful that she will take steps to improve to the point where I feel comfortable continuing to live together so I am currently looking at my options on that side of things. If only one of us can be concrete and make decisions then that is something I will have to take responsibility for and do so by doing exactly as I've said I will.
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maxsterling
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 11:39:23 AM »

Dealing with suicide threats is by far the most challenging and stressful thing I have ever dealt with in my life.  By far.  Question - has your friend ever attempted before?  I'm of the strong opinion that suicide threats are not about manipulation, and always have at least a component of a serious intent in there.  Prior to meeting my wife, I have never, ever heard anyone ever say anything about killing him/herself, even jokingly.  I think for someone to ever say something like that means that they are distressed, and at least partially considering the idea.  Is it always an emergency?  No.  But I suggest never letting it roll off as mere manipulation.

My wife has attempted twice by trying to overdose.  She says she has called the ambulance herself after each attempt because she changed her mind.  In addition, she has also self harmed and been hospitalized for that, and overdosed on heroin (which I would call "unofficial" suicide attempts).  Each time was associated with a breakup.  So, when she is raging and I try to enforce a boundary by leaving, and she threatens, I have no choice but to take her seriously and call the police.  Police don't help her calm down, but at least it gets in her mind that she takes it seriously.

The worst was one time she was raging, and she told me she was going to leave and go to a hotel and kill herself.  She took her medications with her.  To me, those weren't just words, but an actual plan that she was attempting to carry out.  She drove away, I called police, they chased her down with a helicopter.  The police wanted to get her to a crisis team, but she refused.  She sweet talked the police into letting her go.  She was VERY angry at me to days.  A week later in marriage counseling, the counselor asked her what would have happened had she actually gone to a hotel.   W replied that she would probably have attempted suicide  .  My feeling here is that calling the police and having her pulled over for just those 20 minutes was enough for her to reconsider.

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catanaition

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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2015, 12:01:01 PM »

She talks about it constantly (sometimes seriously but usually in 'jokey' manner that is honestly more disturbing to me than the serious times) but has not ever said that she actually attempted suicide in the past. She has confided a lot in me over the last couple of years to the point that I think if she had made an attempt in her school years I would have been told.

Her self-harms of choice are a mixture of scratching (her own nails or with safety pins) and starving herself. The first Christmas she spent here (2013) she barely ate anything for about 7 days straight. Luckily she doesn't turn to drugs or alcohol during these times but it is very scary to see someone drinking just enough water and not consuming anything else.

The only time I know of that she overdosed on pills was before she moved here and it was a case of taking too many pain-killers because they didn't seem to be making the pain any better. She ended up throwing them up in a garbage can on her walk to work about an hour after she took them.
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2015, 01:18:12 PM »

 

Catanaition,

How are things going?  What steps have been taken after your talk?

Hope things are well with you!   

FF
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