Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 10:30:08 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Experts share their discoveries [video]
100
Caretaking - What is it all about?
Margalis Fjelstad, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
A perspective on BPD
Ivan Spielberg, PhD
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Frustrating triggered morning for me  (Read 1044 times)
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2015, 12:44:26 PM »

I used to stand on that hill in the past (my Husband telling me what my own feelings were), and get my dander up and defend myself.

Yeah... .I'm trying to figure out what is worth "fighting for"... .and what is not.

Stomping around... .muttering in another room... .in fact a lot of the behaviors are ones that I can see myself dealing with ... .long term.

I realize that I can't... .and even shouldn't have a relationship that is "all my way... "... .but I'm trying to figure out which behaviors are movable to a better place... .and which are not... .and which are worth trying over.

(I think I've shared before that being told what I'm feeling or why I was doing something was a real hot button area for me too. When I learned to disengage, it got better for me.)

Don't fight to change your wife's behavior. You will lose. VERY BADLY. And so will she and the rest of the family. The only way to win that game is not to play.

You can protect yourself from her behavior. Mostly by refusing to be present for it. If she is muttering, don't ask about it, and try to be far enough away from her that you don't even hear it. Any discussions where she tells you what your feelings are end immediately. Zero participation on your part.

Protecting your children from her behavior is a lot trickier to accomplish, and you really do have to pick your battles there. Fortunately, that area sounds a lot better than it was months ago.

Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2015, 01:04:46 PM »

 

Yeah... .I see that Grey.

The tough thing about ending conversations is that then the conversation doesn't happen... .or at best is significantly delayed.

So... .if I'm trying to stay focused on sorting out a discipline issue with kids... .or something important... .that's tough because then I get asked why I left... .or that I chose to end the conversation... .so she gets to do what she wants.

But... .there is no doubt that I would have been better off to have either left the conversation immediately when she described my feelings about computers... .or addressed the issue right then.  (I was trying to stay on topic)

Then... .I got to thinking about it... .

Grey... .sounds like the key for you was to just walk away... .everytime.  If I remember right... .your wife became more self aware.

Did she ever become aware or admit that you are the only person that can know your feelings?
Logged

Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2015, 01:07:42 PM »

Rapt,

Was there a turning point for you... .where you gave up the fight... .or changed tactics?   

FF

Yeah, one night last Summer or so, when the dysregulation absolutely knocked me for a loop and boggled my mind. I'd taken a shower preparing for later that evening, and while in the shower he got on the phone with a family member. Since he was otherwise occupied, instead of putting on some slinky nightgown, I put on a tee shirt and shorts since I would be walking around the house.

When off the phone, I expected we would end up in the bedroom, but instead he asked to go on the screened-in porch at the back of the house and listen to music. No biggie; I figured he wanted to relax a bit first. I'd gotten some photos (or something) in email from our youngest son, and asked him if he wanted to see them, so I brought my laptop (or tablet?) out to the porch with me to show him.

After looking at the pictures, we were still listening to the music, so I moved on over to other email and within a few minutes he got up, shut off the music, and walked another part of the house. Taking this as my cue, I shut the device and went after him to go to the bedroom--but he was already angry. When I asked him what was wrong (totally naïve about it), he got very stern and angrily said that "You didn't give me any indication that you were interested in anything tonight! You were not interested, and now you are?" (along those lines).

Wow! How weird! I just looked at him quizzically, but he was ranting about my not being interested in intimacy, and at that moment I realized that he had misread the whole night, but there would be nothing I could say at that time that would change it. I marveled at how his head worked (my wearing a tee shirt and shorts instead of a nightgown, then looking at my email apparently signaled disinterest, when I was just reacting to circumstances).

And I felt truly sorry for him, for his taking a very innocent evening--which could've ended in intimacy--and for his turning it into a crisis, a tragic situation to him and his ego, and a whole universe of pain for him. He really was in pain over this, and I just listened to his complaints, stayed close to him (we were in bed), and didn't say one word actually.

I was so detached from thinking it was my fault in any way, knew for certain that his interpretation of my own thoughts and feelings was incredibly "off", and also knew for certain that there was not one thing I could ever say that would change his mind at that point. We fell asleep, and by the next morning he was "normal" and the dysregulation had passed.

In the past, I would've JADED and we would have been awake for hours "trying to work it out", and the next few days would've been very tentative between us. I don't ever do that anymore, and just like this major dysregulation was gone by morning, things have gone much smoother ever since. I just really feel so compassionate for how easily his feelings get hurt, and I don't want him to feel that pain... .So if this is the way to make it stop, I can do it... .
Logged

KateCat
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 2907


« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2015, 01:31:32 PM »

\I'm not sure that I understand what my wife "processing her feelings about the past year would look like... ."

Hmmm

FF

My thought was that you called the child agency folks last year in order to protect your children, when you found your wife in a panicked state of dissociation appearing to endanger several of the kids.

So, could she be feeling a lot of shame and confusion about that episode? Or could she not understand what happened and just think that you continue to do your mysterious things for your mysterious reasons? Like wanting to be with other women?

ADDED: I think you're getting masterful advice on this thread. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2015, 02:22:17 PM »

 

KateCat,

Regarding that episode. She seems to have the impression that she "won". 

DSS has to follow law in NC.  So... there were no marks... .therefore no abuse.  We got a letter saying the complaint was "unsubstantiated".

I'm not sure how she views Family T... .hasn't been spoken of in a while.

To my knowledge... .there has been NO corporal punishment of any kind in the house since then.

The time out thing and other ways of consequences (grounding... etc etc) for children seem to be doing ok for us.

Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2015, 02:29:19 PM »

" "You didn't give me any indication that you were interested in anything tonight! You were not interested, and now you are?" (along those lines).

Wow! How weird! I just looked at him quizzically, but he was ranting about my not being interested in intimacy, and at that moment I realized that he had misread the whole night, but there would be nothing I could say at that time that would change it. I marveled at how his head worked (my wearing a tee shirt and shorts instead of a nightgown, then looking at my email apparently signaled disinterest, when I was just reacting to circumstances).

And I felt truly sorry for him, for his taking a very innocent evening--which could've ended in intimacy--and for his turning it into a crisis, a tragic situation to him and his ego, and a whole universe of pain for him. He really was in pain over this, and I just listened to his complaints, stayed close to him (we were in bed), and didn't say one word actually. "


Rapt- this is so true. My H always tells me that I give no indication of being interested or not. I do- but he can not read it. Also he will get it in his head that I am, and then rage if I'm not, and also decide that I'm not, even when available to him.

I had my ah ha moment a while back too. I had chosen a gift for his mother. I have picked out most of the presents for her since we were married- birthdays, holidays. I wasn't sure what size she wore, so I asked his sister for advice. I had just relayed all that to him, showed him what I picked out, and a few hours later he raged at me for being rude to his mother. At that moment I realized that all I said to him a few hours ago didn't register. In the past, I would have JADED, but I realized it did no good. I also felt sorry for him to think that for all those years, how much of the love and kindness that I have showed him and his family was altered through his own pain?

Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2015, 03:35:37 PM »

The tough thing about ending conversations is that then the conversation doesn't happen... .or at best is significantly delayed.

You may have to say "You are telling me how I feel. That is not a subject I can discuss right now. Our child has been doing X and... ."

Refuse to engage on that aspect, and keep to the other topic if it is timely.

Or don't take it personally when she does it... .and validate how she feels hurt/betrayed/ignored/whatever [based on what she believes you are thinking!] ... .without either agreeing or disagreeing about your feelings/thoughts at all.


Excerpt
Grey... .sounds like the key for you was to just walk away... .everytime.  If I remember right... .your wife became more self aware.

Did she ever become aware or admit that you are the only person that can know your feelings?

Honestly I'd say that my wife was originally relatively high functioning on the BPD spectrum... .and recovered to a point too high functioning to be diagnosable with BPD over a year ago. In our conflicts over the last few months, she wasn't telling me what I thought or felt that I can remember. So yes, she did get better.



For me the key was not so much walking away as refusing to engage in something that was going to leave both of us feeling worse and nothing resolved when it was done!
I would walk away if I needed to, but often I did not.

In fact as we were splitting, or perhaps I should say considering it, I was quite successful at shifting conversations clearly away from emotional minefields and toward more positive things, either fun or logistical. I did notice that she would tend to kitchen sink things still, and would toss things at me that would have just gotten us into a mess if I engaged them as they were... .but if I refused to engage on it, she cooperated with that, and probably appreciated the effort on my part.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2015, 03:49:30 PM »

You may have to say "You are telling me how I feel. That is not a subject I can discuss right now. Our child has been doing X and... ."

I'm liking this... .

I've tried variations of this... .but left off the "right now" part.  Staying on subject can get tricking in conversations with her.

Did you (or anyone else) find a way to successfully get back to the original subject.

She keeps wanting to make  "a point" about things that I honestly rarely make a connection to the original subject

I've tried to schedule time to talk about her issue later.  I've tried to negotiate... ."ok lets handle your issue now and come back to our original one after that... ok?"  guess what... .we rarely get back.

She has clearly indicated in counseling she is ok with several things (subjects) at once... .I'm not.

If it's unimportant... .I don't care.  But if trying to make a decision or communicate about important things... .it is frustrating.

Logged

Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2015, 04:18:47 PM »

Know what is under you control and what is under hers.

You cannot make her talk about anything she doesn't want to talk about.

She cannot make you talk about anything you don't want to talk about.

Those are fundamental. Don't forget either one of them.

You can both ask to talk about something that may not seem relevant/important/whatever at the time.

You don't have to make a "deal" (We'll talk about your topic first). Haven't you gotten burnt by deals before?

And most important--Learn that when you are triggered is a HORRIBLE time for you to talk about anything... .and when she is triggered is a HORRIBLE time to talk about anything. Better to wait for a 'later' that may not happen than to get in a fight that only makes things worse!

And yep, staying on subject can be a challenge... .my wife was prone to kitchen-sinking things at me. I think that in general, women's minds do connect things a lot more than men's minds, so part of this is just how we think respectively. Not that either one is 'right' or 'wrong', just that they are different. I once saw a video about this... .rummaging around on youtube... .hey, I found it! There is both humor and truth in it... .only 5 minutes Smiling (click to insert in post)

https://youtu.be/0BxckAMaTDc
Logged
Cole
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Posts: 563


« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2015, 07:14:07 AM »

GK, Great video! Relevant to every couple in the world, BPD element or not.

FF, Throughout all the issues in the last week or two, has your wife told you what really put a burr under her saddle? Mine will rant and rave at me about one thing for weeks on end when it is actually something else that she is upset about.

Twice in this thread, the topic of other women has come up. First, the comment at Church and then the grilling when you had gone for a walk. Does your wife have some irrational suspicious that you are seeing someone? Mine goes into those phases where she gets very insecure and assumes I am looking to "replace her" as she puts it. The inherent fear of abandonment and lack of self worth associated with BPD seems to drive this to the extreme, but rather than vocalizing that particular fear, she will go off on something totally unrelated.   



 
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2015, 10:06:44 AM »

FF, Throughout all the issues in the last week or two, has your wife told you what really put a burr under her saddle? Mine will rant and rave at me about one thing for weeks on end when it is actually something else that she is upset about.

Twice in this thread, the topic of other women has come up. First, the comment at Church and then the grilling when you had gone for a walk. Does your wife have some irrational suspicious that you are seeing someone? Mine goes into those phases where she gets very insecure and assumes I am looking to "replace her" as she puts it. The inherent fear of abandonment and lack of self worth associated with BPD seems to drive this to the extreme, but rather than vocalizing that particular fear, she will go off on something totally unrelated.     

No she has not said what she is really upset about.

The other women thing used to be huge.  In fact... .now that I think about it... .the mention of Sarah (which we never talked about again)... .was the first time other women have been brought up in many many months.

That is an area I have gotten some relative victory in.  For those new to my story... .this was a big deal for a long time.  She alleged I was chasing everything that moved that was female... .I alleged that if she would hush... .I would not have weird thoughts about other females... because she was the one putting them in my head with her questions and suggestions.

Then... .she sent me a naked picture of another woman via email.  I made a big deal about it to her an in MC.  And this issue went away (or in reality... .has gone to a much lower "thing" for her).

And... .yes... .life has been gloriously better without her yammering on about this or that woman... .

Logged

formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2015, 10:09:24 AM »

 

I suspect that whatever the "real" issue is/was has been put to bed for a while.

Last night was awesome.  She was in good mood... .I was in good mood.  We spent many hours together... .alone.  And some quality with our almost two year old.

She slept in bed with me... .had nice long snuggle this morning.  I was able to validate her first thing... .day seems to be off on right foot.

My biggest frustration with her sleeping other places in house... .is that I have had success with a slow wakeup... .lots of snuggling and validation to start day... .and then having a good day.

When she goes other places... .tends to be grumpier.

Logged

Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2015, 10:25:22 AM »

When she goes other places... .tends to be grumpier.

Correlation is not causation.

My suspicion is that she sleeps elsewhere because she is grumpy... .not the other way 'round.

Feelings often don't have any explicable reason/cause.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2015, 10:32:26 AM »

 

Yep... .you may be right about her choosing to sleep other places because of grumpiness.

Logged

Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2015, 10:32:50 AM »

Feelings often don't have any explicable reason/cause.

My husband often claims this is true for him. It's so different from my reality. I always know why I feel some way or what has precipitated the feeling. Feelings for me aren't random, just arising out of thin air.

I always assumed that my husband was just not willing (or able) to look within to understand the origins of his feelings.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2015, 11:49:40 AM »

Feelings often don't have any explicable reason/cause.

My husband often claims this is true for him. It's so different from my reality. I always know why I feel some way or what has precipitated the feeling. Feelings for me aren't random, just arising out of thin air.

I always assumed that my husband was just not willing (or able) to look within to understand the origins of his feelings.

I was remembering a story I heard about a respected Buddhist monk. Someone who was VERY self-aware and mindful. He was visited by the two teachers of my retreat. He said to them something like "I have been in a negative mood for 28 days now." In a conversational tone. Simply acknowledging that he was feeling that way, without any cause that he was aware of... .or anything that needed to be done to fix it.

I am usually aware of things that trigger my feelings. Often I later become aware of deeper history that underlies them. Still... .sometimes the feelings just come, of their own accord, and go of their own accord, just like the weather comes and goes with no reason in my life.

Whatever the source... .known or unknown... .the feelings are real. That's what matters most.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2015, 12:03:24 PM »

I am usually aware of things that trigger my feelings. Often I later become aware of deeper history that underlies them. Still... .sometimes the feelings just come, of their own accord, and go of their own accord, just like the weather comes and goes with no reason in my life.

Whatever the source... .known or unknown... .the feelings are real. That's what matters most.

WOW!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)

I'm soo like a guy--I want to be in fix-it mode for my husband's feelings.   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2015, 12:14:18 PM »

 

I like to think of my feelings as an "indicator light" in an airplane. 

So... .for those non pilots out there... .we had several different warning and caution lights in the airplane.  The ones that would get your attention could have a bunch of different causes.  You had to look elsewhere to trace down why that "master" light came on.

Sometimes you wouldn't know exactly why it was on... .but you could figure out that something in a system (hydraulics, fuel, etc etc) had triggered it.

Anyway... .I like to think of a feeling... .especially a negative feeling... .is calling my attention to "look further" into the cause.

Many times... I'm just grumpy and I never put my finger on the exact reason.  Most of the time... .I get a pretty good idea.

And not that there is an exact "fix" for the feelings... .but... .I'm aware that I have anxiety over my oldest daughter applying to universities.  I'm pretty sure that she is going to get the one she wants... .that has a unique program she is interested in... .  Of course... .it's a long way away. 

I want her to grow and develop and chase her dreams... .I just wish she would do it from maybe... .10 minutes away for the next 20 years or so... .vice most likely being across the country this coming fall.   :'( :'(

But... .I did the same thing at her age... .and she is very much like me.

Anyway... .I use those feelings to motivate me to spend extra time with her.

FF
Logged

Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2015, 02:08:24 PM »

I like to think of my feelings as an "indicator light" in an airplane. 

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Good analogy. When it comes to feelings, you should be aware that occasionally the indicator light is wired to a system on a different plane than the one you are flying 
Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2015, 05:46:35 AM »

About the sleeping in a different bed--

Sometimes, if I am upset about something, it is easier for me to calm down if I am alone. This is especially if I have been in an argument with my H but it could be about anything. If I'm angry at him, it's hard to lie there next to him and be able to calm down. This is different for him- he seems to settle better when I am with him. However, it's strange to me for him to be angry and want me next to him. I can sense his anger and it is unsettling.

Another reason- and this may be something that is going on with your wife- is that sometimes a disagreement triggers shame in me. Since I have a mother with BPD, I recognize that this is something that can develop in such a family. It's something I've learned to recognize as what has contributed to the dysfunction in the way my H and I relate to each other. His disaproval or distress with me can trigger the kind of shame I felt around my parents when they didn't approve of me. This is one reason I could be so compliant and co-dependent around him. When shamed by my parents, I tried to be very good and make them happy to win their approval. I did the same thing with my H.

He was shamed as a child and is pretty good at "shaming" when he wants to- like correcting something I am doing, or pointing out any mistakes I make. When the shame is triggered, I really want to just be invisible- like I must have felt as a child- and go hide somewhere. Furthermore, being upset around him is really humiliating because then he flaunts about being the calm one and tells me how irrational I am.

As an adult, I recognize this now, and do better when I can have some time alone. This becomes triggering to my H as he sees it as a rejection of him. My not being in the bed with him triggers anxiety in him. I sometimes feel like his Teddy Bear. However, I am the opposite- I need to be alone to calm down. I feel safer when I know he doesn't see me upset.

Growing up with my mother led me to be very sensitive to how other people feel. It was survival. So being next to my H when he is out of sorts, or I am, isn't calming. Your wife grew up with these issues as well. Maybe sometimes it is overhelming to her and she needs to be alone. Also, I found I needed a transition between being with the kids and being with my H- some alone time to get my thoughts and feelings together.

Even if your wife is safe to be emotional with you, she may feel safer in a way, to not sleep with you when she is upset. Yes, this upsets you, but consider- perhaps it is more about her than you. Learning to calm herself down is a good skill- and maybe this is how she does it.
Logged
KateCat
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 2907


« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2015, 06:58:57 AM »

I sometimes feel like his Teddy Bear.

Notwendy, it's striking how many thoughtful people, both lay and professional, evoke this image. I first encountered it in the works of Patricia Evans:

www.freemydaughters.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-custom.cgi?d=family-site&page=3545
Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2015, 07:18:59 AM »

Patricia Evans books were an eye opener. As I mentioned before, I grew up with extreme behavior on the part of my mother. However, even then, I was never physically abused. Because of this, I didn't really understand what emotional/verbal abuse was. Evan's books made me aware of the less familiar ideas of emotional and verbal abuse, including things like "eye rolling" and defining someone else's state and emotions. I think my H and I fit many of the ideas in her books, and thanks to some of her suggestions, I was able to change my response to some of it and it diminished. The "Teddy Bear" ideas resonated with me as I did think of that term before I read them.

This website you posted looks good and I am going to spend some time reading it- thanks.
Logged
KateCat
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 2907


« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2015, 07:42:05 AM »

I think it's a profoundly difficult thing to understand, and it's encouraging that people are developing tools to overcome it.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2015, 11:16:49 PM »

 

We've had a great week.  Weather warmed up and we spent several great evenings on the playground with all our kids... .did lots of stuff together as a family.  Top notch!

My biggest complaint (minor in the scheme of things) was that she chose to sleep somewhere else last night... .and this morning was griping at me/asking me why I didn't wake her up this morning... .was I going to let her be late to chaperone a school trip.

Rather than get into a thing over "understanding" how I was responsible for waking her up... I said that I decided to lay down for a few minutes after seeing our child off that gets on the bus first in the morning.

It was sort of a non answer... .but was what I was thinking and doing.  She hadn't asked me to help her get up... .so I didn't think of it.

Anyway... .returned to a good state quickly... .I think letting that slide was the right tactic/tool to use.

Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2015, 05:30:54 AM »

FF, I think you did the right thing by not JADEing or explaining yourself. You simply said that you wanted to lie down. You didn't get into the who's responsible for waking her up debate ( she is responsible for herself). It's natural that she was upset about being late and then blamed you ( or something besides herself) for it. But you didn't take that bait.

You have older kids so you know the idea of natural consequences. Of course, we parents protect kids from harmful ones, however, the best lesson for teaching them to be responsible for themselves is to let them experience the real life consequences- even if it is tempting to rescue them. So, if you oversleep, and are late for school, then you get a tardy. Get enough tardies, and you have to stay after school for detention for too many tardies. If you forget your sweater- then you feel cold, and so on. You know this, and it applies to everyone- even adults.

I recall a confusing event when I was a teen. My mom missed some kind of appointment- something I didn't even know about, and it was her responsibility to get there. She missed it and came raging after me " you made me miss my appointment".  Naturally, that left me very confused and thinking about how that could possibly be because she hadn't mentioned it to me, and it didn't have anything to do with me.

So good for you for not getting into "understanding" something that I think was her responsibility and she projected her angry feelings on to you.

I understand that it bothers you when she doesn't sleep with you, but it may be more about her than you. I know that if I am upset about something, I want to be alone. Also, if she is getting into that perimenopause stage, she may not be sleeping as well and gets up and down at night. Also - do you snore? If my H wakes me up too many times snoring- I sometimes sleep somewhere else for a night to catch up. It might not be something to make too much out of- even if you prefer she is with you every night.

Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2015, 07:31:15 AM »

 

It's been a while since I have explained "my part" of the sleep frustration.

On the outside... .if you knew me casually... .I would look like a completely normal guy.

I've actually got a number of service connected disabilities that have a big impact on my life.

Sleep is one of them. 

I have to were a CPAP machine and some braces on my arms.  I do much better on a very set schedule and even though I use an alarm... .I normally wake up a 5 minutes or so before my alarm every day.

Anyway... .because of the equipment I use... .changing beds is not an easy task.  It's one of the issues I took such a big stand about middle of the night rages... ."talks"... .questioning... .  It was a hill I was "prepared to die on... "  And it appears I have "won" that issue.  Mainly because the advice of get up and go to another room is incredibly difficult.

Staying asleep generally isn't an issue.  Getting untriggered and back to sleep has always been hard for me.  Having me, doctors, counselors, preachers tell her that raging at me in the middle of the night did little good for years... .until I found BPD family and understood that I was feeding the cycle... .so I stopped responding... .and calmly kept holding her responsible in appropriate counseling situations.

She says she enjoys the sound of cpap... .a rhythmic thing.

What we have both agreed is our favorite time together and she asked for... .and I changed my schedule to do... .is for me to stay in bed and snuggle with her in the morning.  Talking and validation seem to do great things here.  We usually pray together then.  Her idea... .but a great one.

She will notice and complain that we haven't prayed in a week... .or had good talks... .or whatever.  I will invite her to bed... .she will agree... .and... ."forget" "can't help it"... whatever.  She doesn't show. 

I make sure that it is a true invitation... .and not an offhand way to blame her for not being there... .or pointing out to her that it was her choice to not snuggle, pray, talk...

Wow... .that got a bit longer than I wanted. 

It's really been a good week.  I have an additional interview today with a place that I'm excited about... .I hope it goes well!  I'm ready for the job search to be over.

Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2015, 08:06:18 AM »

Thanks for explaining that. I understand your part of the sleep frustration. However, what is hers? It is her choice to leave and sleep on the couch, and you stay in the bed.

My H has his sleep needs too. I recall when we had those late night rages. How awful they are. Neither of us can get back to sleep, but I do better if I don't sleep next to him when either of us ( or both) are upset. Fortunately, using the tools and not JADE'ing have stopped the night rages, but it doesn't stop him or me from feeling angry sometimes.

Then, there are the physical issues-as you mentioned about yours. H is a very light sleeper and if he is woken up, he can't get back to sleep. He wants me to go to bed with him ( not about getting frisky here)  when he is going to bed for the reasons being that if I come to bed later and wake him up, then he can't fall asleep again. Most of the time I fall asleep too, but sometimes, if I am not sleepy, I end up lying there, afraid to move which would wake him up. Sometimes it is easier to just sleep somewhere else if I think I would rather get up or if I am not sleeping well.I respect his need to sleep by him staying in the bed- I don't ask him to leave, I just move.

Another one is boundaries. I grew up in a family with poor boundaries as it seems your wife did too. This results in me being over sensitive to someone's feelings. If my H is angry and lying next to me in bed, I am on high alert- hypervigilant. This is a remnant from childhood where if momma's not happy- everyone was in trouble. If I am sleeping somewhere else, alone, I can feel calmer and fall asleep.

Does this bother my H? Yes, but sleeping is part of me taking care of me. What I wonder about is if your wife just needs to sleep alone for her own reasons from time to time. When you invite her to sleep with you, and she says yes, and then doesn't, perhaps she is avoiding the confrontation. She may not even know why she needs to sleep by herself- it may be that she is sensitive like I am and feels she can calm down better. It could have nothing to do with you and something to do with her childhood. Maybe it has something to do with the "push pull" part of the r/s and she just needs to regroup sometimes.

Glad you had a good week and good luck on the interview!
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2015, 11:13:13 AM »

FF, sounds like good progress in your world Smiling (click to insert in post)  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Then, there are the physical issues-as you mentioned about yours. H is a very light sleeper and if he is woken up, he can't get back to sleep. He wants me to go to bed with him ( not about getting frisky here)  when he is going to bed for the reasons being that if I come to bed later and wake him up, then he can't fall asleep again. Most of the time I fall asleep too, but sometimes, if I am not sleepy, I end up lying there, afraid to move which would wake him up. Sometimes it is easier to just sleep somewhere else if I think I would rather get up or if I am not sleeping well.I respect his need to sleep by him staying in the bed- I don't ask him to leave, I just move.

I think this is a good values compromise on your part. Your husband has a very valid desire not to be woken up when you come to bed late and be unable to fall back asleep.

Honoring that by sleeping elsewhere so as not to disturb him when you do not feel sleepy when he goes to bed, or slipping out quietly if you wake up / can't sleep is taking care of yourself, while minimizing the impact on him.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2015, 11:42:41 AM »

 

Yep... .interview went great... .fingers crossed that I get the job.  That would settle a big part of my life!

FF
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2015, 11:47:41 AM »

GK thanks, this is how I see it, but sometimes my H sees it as me rejecting him and not wanting to be with him. I have explained it, but past that, it would be JADEing. In the end, it's about us getting the sleep we need.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!