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Author Topic: Living with silence?  (Read 846 times)
Notwendy
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« on: March 14, 2015, 10:15:40 AM »

Different from WOE... .

I know the typical stereotype is that women are more talkative than men, and some men have noted that their wives are complaining they don't talk "deeper", but I think I have had deeper conversations with both men and women than I have with my H.

Is it possible that someone is so cut off from themselves that they have no real deep thinking at all? Or is their deep thinking so dysregulated with fears and self loathing that it isn't possible to process much else? I have tried for years to have a deeper ( than the weather or politics ) conversation with my H and it is just miserable. He takes so long to reply that conversations are slow and labored, and they exhaust him. I can see that it is miserable for him, and it is also miserable to me. The pattern goes like this Me: something personal.  Him ( long, long pause, then one or two words... .pause. Me- words Him - silence... .then long pause, then one word. He's talkative to others, the kids, can go on and on over something he is passionate about. Just not something that requires introspection, or some thing like spirituality, hopes, dreams, goals.

Another idea is that if someone has a poor sense of self, that they feel they have to construct their ideas as they go along, and this is stressful. I sometimes think he is so careful to guard his words because of fear. My lower functioning mother seems to have poor filters and so, talks a lot. It's almost as if his filter is so tight that hardly anything gets through?

Sometimes meals are me sitting there watching him chew.

He grew up like this. His father was an emotionally damaged soul who I suspect was emotionally abusive. The man would sit there completely disconnected from the rest of the family and not say a word.

Before I considered BPD, I wondered about autism. However, I have had lots of conversations about emotions and feelings with people with autism- and the conversations are more fluent than when I talk to my H about something personal. My H communicates just fine, did well socially and academically in school. He can talk, quite intelligently, about anything as long as it isn't personal. I sometimes wonder if this is some kind of disability- as if that part of him just isn't there. Is that possible?

I find we do well together when we talk the least. We can share a TV show. My H considers talking about anything to be "talking". If I ever say anything about this his retort is " We just talked all night " ( actually 30 minutes about something non personal).

One thing I don't feel I can have hope for is with talking. It isn't natural for me to not talk as much. He notices it and doesn't like it when I don't talk as much, but he's miserable when I do ( and so am I).
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2015, 10:29:31 AM »

Notwendy, this is so difficult. Of course you want to have personal conversations with your husband and you want him to participate in kind.   

I have a similar problem with my husband at times. Part of that I attribute to him being a lawyer. He's even said he doesn't want to say anything that I can use against him in the future.   

He's very guarded at times, then at other times he'll blurt out the most inappropriate stuff--but not when I'm trying to have a personal convo with him.

I'm guessing that your husband might be fearful of letting down his guard with you. You know him best of anyone and from some of your other posts, I suspect there's a power play going on in his head. He doesn't want to surrender any power to you or show signs of weakness. Does this seem possible or am I off base?
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2015, 10:38:33 AM »

I think you are right on base. The power play is all in his head though. I think it is about control and he sees this as some kind of surrender.

On the other hand, he seems quite disconnected from his own inner thinking, or maybe he's just taking up so much energy to keep it in check and not say anything.

Ironically, the times that I feel I hear the real him is when he is disregulated and raging, as he doesn't have the tight control he has of his words otherwise.

Sadly, for him, he is the source of his own misery- and feeling less connected with me. Sometimes he wants me to talk to him while he says little back. It is really tiring to do this.

And he also is threatened if I speak to men who do talk to me. I have an old friend from childhood who doesn't live near me. We did meet up with him when he was on business with my H and kids. Afterwards, my H came unglued- raged and all at how I didn't talk to him like I spoke to my old friend ( who has known me since we were kids)
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2015, 10:43:49 AM »

Yes, what is up with that?

SO can walk up to total strangers and start a lively 10 min convo, but try to talk to her in the truck or at dinner is a labored, stressful event for both of us. Even lighthearted questions get one word answers.

I talk to customers at work, often people I've never met, and have no problem starting and carrying a conversation on many different topics. With her it's always a dead end.

Then she projects how uncomfortable I am, and how nervous I seem. That's not me--that's HER at the dinner table!
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2015, 11:12:40 AM »

I understand what you mean about being "disconnected from his own inner thinking."

Lots of times I've tried to have a conversation with my husband about something and I'll ask "is this because of x?" And instead of the conversation continuing, he will say, "I'll have to think about that." It effectively stops the convo and of course he never gets back to me about it.

My mind fires at such a rapid pace that if I look within to analyze something, I get a laser like response. I realize this is a skill I honed and long ago when I tried to do that, my mind would wander all over, like a kid lost in a toy store and I'd completely forget what I was intending to think about. So maybe that's how my husband's mind works about emotionally charged topics.

It's hard to imagine that because he's probably one of the most intelligent people I've ever known and such a sharp and incisive thinker on other subjects that don't concern him personally.

I do miss not being able to have with him the easy conversations I can have with other people. If it's about politics or the environment or something else he's passionate about, yes, we can easily talk. But only if I agree with him. 
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2015, 01:14:09 PM »

 I'm sorry you all deal with this too and also relieved it isn't just me. I used to think I was crazy- it seemed I could relate to anyone besides my H. He's happy to blame me for that too.

I think they have a better developed false self than an authentic self so when they speak to others - they are acting with the false self. We expect them to be authentic. I used to think there was something beautiful that he was keeping from me- his thoughts and feelings - Now I wonder if it looks more like the static on that TV screen when there isn't a channel.

If a young child needs glasses and their vision isn't corrected it can cause them to not see well because their brain doesn't get the right images. I wonder if growing up with an invalidating parent took away his ability to "see" his emotions . Sometimes he gets a deer in the headlights look on his face or seems bewildered when I ask him

something personal. I sometimes wonder if his father caused him to lose a part of his thinking. That is sad.
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2015, 01:51:25 PM »

Cat Familiar, when you mentioned that your mind fires at such a rapid pace that if I look within to analyze something, I get a laser like response, I think you hit on something.

I am the same way. I grew up in a house where people only had to say a few words, and the others would know what they were saying or needed (because we were all paying attention to each other, if only on the peripheral). My H cannot do that. I have to use about four times as many words to convey something to him so that he "gets" it. I also know he recognizes that and it frustrates him. He also had the disadvantage of growing up in a house where everyone HAD to agree (usually with his mother). You weren't allowed to have your own opinion on something. If you did, you were bullied into submission. (My daughter recognized it when she was 14). I grew up where it's OK to disagree. No big deal.

If you add to that the fact that he really doesn't always KNOW what he's thinking, or what his opinion is, or what the feeling is that is bothering him, it makes it tough to choose the right words. If he disagrees, it brings back childhood memories that you can't DO that. Or worse, if I disagree with him, he's in limbo and has no idea what to do. He can't just say "Interesting thought. I respectfully disagree." and be OK with it.

RiverRat, for a long time, I thought it was me who had the problem. Until I joined my off road group and we all sat around the campfire talking about anything and everything and no one was angry with my opinions, even if they didn't agree and people actually found me amusing and intelligent. It was kind of a turning point for me. I learned that if I want a good conversation, it's not happening with H when he's not in a really good place. If I want a surface conversation, no problem. (I have the same issue with MIL-I never try to have a real conversation with her anymore)

The person I thought my H was when we first got together was not him. It was a conglomeration  of all the people he talked to. He used their thoughts and experiences as his own reference for everything. He did that at first with me, too, which is why I thought we had so much in common. But when the curtain lifted, I think he finds himself wanting, not knowing who he is or what his own opinion is. And I think that frustrates him.

NotWendy, based on my above observations about my H I agree they have a better developed false self than an authentic self. I almost think they were told as children their authentic self was defective.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2015, 02:04:31 PM »

Those are the exact words" I'm defective " that my H says he feels and yes , nobody dares to say anything in his family to each other that might cause conflict. A close family conversation to them is saying something about what's growing in the garden. " got some big tomatoes this year".

I get the taking other people's words. I recall once listening to my H speak to a colleague and thinking " who is this man and what is he saying? "

It's even stranger when it's my words being mirrored. Rarely I have heard my H do this. My mother has done this frequently. I will tell her things I do with the kids and then she will say later " I remember doing x y z when my kids were little"

Only she didn't do that - it was my story.
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2015, 02:15:39 PM »

Those are the exact words" I'm defective " that my H says he feels and yes , nobody dares to say anything in his family to each other that might cause conflict. A close family conversation to them is saying something about what's growing in the garden. " got some big tomatoes this year".

I get the taking other people's words. I recall once listening to my H speak to a colleague and thinking " who is this man and what is he saying? "

It's even stranger when it's my words being mirrored. Rarely I have heard my H do this.

I almost think this is a guy thing. They actually want to be the guy in charge, so taking your words is not OK. This happens to me when I will say " I think it would be fun to go to XX place." And H pretty much ignores me. Then, some co-worker says "Hey, you should go to XX place (same place I said)." and suddenly XX place is the place to go! Never mind that I mentioned it before.


Excerpt
My mother has done this frequently. I will tell her things I do with the kids and then she will say later " I remember doing x y z when my kids were little"

Only she didn't do that - it was my story.

That's a little creepy. It seems kind of sad that your mother has to use your actual life for her virtual one. The good news is that you must be doing something right if she thinks it is good enough to own for herself!
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2015, 02:21:33 PM »

And he also is threatened if I speak to men who do talk to me. I have an old friend from childhood who doesn't live near me. We did meet up with him when he was on business with my H and kids. Afterwards, my H came unglued- raged and all at how I didn't talk to him like I spoke to my old friend ( who has known me since we were kids)

You know... .if this rage has blown over... .this might be an interesting thing to broach with your husband.

He says that you don't talk to him like you talked to this guy.

I'm guessing that this is talking about personal things... .that your husband completely fails at.

Say that you need to have that sort of conversation with people. You would like to have them with him, but he seems unable to engage and participate in them.

See where he goes from this. (Unless you expect it to be another rage... .)
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2015, 02:27:50 PM »

Thanks GK- he knows this and seems pained by it . All I can conclude is that he's not able to or won't . I've brought it up several times.

This was difficult for him and also for me. I wanted him to meet my friend. This person is like a brother to me and I had not seen him in years. There never was anything romantic between us but we shared a lot as kids and teens. There is no way we could have a superficial conversation. This accentuated my Hs feelings of being inadequate and defective. I feel as if I paid a high price for the pleasure of seeing my friend in terms of the rants and rages that followed.
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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2015, 02:47:13 PM »

Take care of yourself... .and keep the heat on your husband.

In other words, don't let this friendship go by the wayside just because your husband goes off over it. Try to see him / talk to him in ways that don't trigger your husband as much as you can, without going down some sort of secret communications rabbit hole or anything.

This could ultimately give your husband some reason to want to figure out how to step up to the plate in that way.
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« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2015, 02:52:22 PM »

Thanks GK- he knows this and seems pained by it . All I can conclude is that he's not able to or won't . I've brought it up several times.

This was difficult for him and also for me. I wanted him to meet my friend. This person is like a brother to me and I had not seen him in years. There never was anything romantic between us but we shared a lot as kids and teens. There is no way we could have a superficial conversation. This accentuated my Hs feelings of being inadequate and defective. I feel as if I paid a high price for the pleasure of seeing my friend in terms of the rants and rages that followed.

I had something similar happen, but I didn't get a rage afterwards, more of a depressed silence. I had just connected with an old (male) friend from 20 years ago. We have great conversations so I was on the phone an laughing and talking for over and hour. When I came out, My H said that I sounded like I was having a good time. I said  yes, that I haven't talked to my friend in years, but it was nice we could pick up where we left off. (kids, life, etc). H got very quiet and wandered off.

Oddly enough, I now see that was right in line with everything else where the stuff hit the fan... .I wonder if it  was a delayed rage?
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« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2015, 03:01:51 PM »

I admit to having subdued myself socially to avoid his rants and also since it seems less appropriate to be hanging out with the guys now that all of us are married. Still I do cherish my friends from the times when we did hang out.

Once an old friend called me like that and I did panick thinking that my H may overhear the conversation which was also not romantic. Once I was at my sponsors house and stayed late talking. My H called looking for me. She said she could see the expression on my face change from animated to subdued. To some degree it bothers my H even when I am having a nice time talking to women too. It seems automatic that I time it down with him.

We talk about having a false self but I feel safer talking to people when he isn't around.
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« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2015, 03:21:41 PM »

I admit to having subdued myself socially to avoid his rants and also since it seems less appropriate to be hanging out with the guys now that all of us are married. Still I do cherish my friends from the times when we did hang out.

Work on your boundary enforcement skills so you aren't harmed by his attempts to rant at you.

Then work on boundaries of having outside friends anyway. (Not romantic ones, of course)

Part of the BPD playbook is to isolate you from other people. They will come up with any and all possible reasons to do so. Don't give in. At least not most of the time.

Excerpt
We talk about having a false self but I feel safer talking to people when he isn't around.

I don't know your reference to a false self.

I'm 99.99% sure that you ARE safer talking to people when he's not around. So feeling that way is pretty natural!
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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2015, 03:23:07 PM »

Cat Familiar, when you mentioned that your mind fires at such a rapid pace that if I look within to analyze something, I get a laser like response, I think you hit on something.

I am the same way. I grew up in a house where people only had to say a few words, and the others would know what they were saying or needed (because we were all paying attention to each other, if only on the peripheral). My H cannot do that. I have to use about four times as many words to convey something to him so that he "gets" it. I also know he recognizes that and it frustrates him. He also had the disadvantage of growing up in a house where everyone HAD to agree (usually with his mother). You weren't allowed to have your own opinion on something. If you did, you were bullied into submission. (My daughter recognized it when she was 14). I grew up where it's OK to disagree. No big deal.

If you add to that the fact that he really doesn't always KNOW what he's thinking, or what his opinion is, or what the feeling is that is bothering him, it makes it tough to choose the right words. If he disagrees, it brings back childhood memories that you can't DO that. Or worse, if I disagree with him, he's in limbo and has no idea what to do. He can't just say "Interesting thought. I respectfully disagree." and be OK with it.

Offroad, I've attributed my husband's cluelessness to being a "city person". It seems that people who are "country people" know exactly when to pitch in and how to help. My husband is getting better, but he used to walk right past me when I was unloading the car after a shopping run at a big box store. I couldn't believe it that someone would be so oblivious or so selfish. Then after making dinner, he would stand behind my chair, holding it for me, waiting for me to sit down while I brought the rest of the food I'd prepared to the table. I'd think, "why don't you help me put stuff on the table instead of holding my f'n chair?"

But I think the distinction is more than country/city--it's having responsibilities when you grow up and being a contributing member of the family.

My husband had a very domineering father who was very cruel and judgmental toward him and I don't think he was encouraged to have his own opinion. His mother was very meek and discouraged him from showing any interest in helping around the house--some definite rigid sex roles as well as homophobia in that home.
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2015, 04:03:28 PM »

But I think the distinction is more than country/city--it's having responsibilities when you grow up and being a contributing member of the family.

My husband had a very domineering father who was very cruel and judgmental toward him and I don't think he was encouraged to have his own opinion. His mother was very meek and discouraged him from showing any interest in helping around the house--some definite rigid sex roles as well as homophobia in that home.

I'm beginning to think a lot of this has to do with not being allowed your own opinion or "self". My father never noticed if someone needed help (in his own little world), but he was more than willing to help with anything. The difference with him and a pwBPD is that if you'd ask, my father would do it. Right then. A pwBPD often takes a request as a accusation that they didn't do something they should have. I think it's the same with talking. My father wasn't a talker, but if you asked him something, he'd answer or chat with you about it.

I'm starting to think a pwBPD, even if they HAD responsibilities, had to do it a certain way. There was no room for their authentic self to learn to do what they had to do THEIR way. This spills over into their lack of conversation abilities with the person who knows them the best. If the pwBPD lies or uses someone else's experiences to fill in for their own hole in their personality, the spouse knows what they are saying is incorrect, and the pwBPD is caught using their mask. They don't want that, so they don't talk as much to spouses. The spouse knows when the mask goes on. (I've seen H do this when talking with people from work. He will leave me alone at an outing so he doesn't have to be near me when he knows that I know what he is saying isn't his own words).

I must think on this. This might explain why H was always insisting that the kids do things HIS way, whereas I would show the kids the way I did it, then tell them to adjust as they needed to for themselves.
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2015, 06:04:36 PM »

My husband had a very domineering father who was very cruel and judgmental toward him and I don't think he was encouraged to have his own opinion. His mother was very meek and discouraged him from showing any interest in helping around the house--some definite rigid sex roles as well as homophobia in that home.

My H is the same way- he will stand there and watch me scurry around the kitchen but he will not help me. Super rigid gener roles for him as well as expressing fear of being "pussywhipped" his words if did what I asked him too. You hit on something with the homophobia. We have several gay/lesbian family members. My H would not treat them unkindly- it is not with other people. However he is very uncomfortable with the idea. It's crossed my mind that if his sense of self is so fragile that maybe that includes his sexuality - so doing the dishes could make him feel not manly.

I have even brought this up in our earlier years that me taking out the trash doesn't make me a man and doing the dishes won't make you a woman . Actually I take the trash out most of the time anyway.

Fortunately women's work to my H included taking care of children so the kids were not around him enough to experience the cruel invalidation that he experienced from his own dad who criticizes any idea he had. No wonder he had up hide himself.

Fwiw- H is country- not city. GK yes he married a people pleaser but also with the kids full time I didn't have much social time- now that they are older in getting out more socially whether he likes it or not.

I also think the silence is because we would see them as they are- and recognize the false self . It makes me wonder since he has kept me very separate from his work life - does not want me around him there at all . Other wives I know have more contact with people their husbands work with than I do.
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2015, 09:32:05 PM »

Lots of times I've tried to have a conversation with my husband about something and I'll ask "is this because of x?" And instead of the conversation continuing, he will say, "I'll have to think about that." It effectively stops the convo and of course he never gets back to me about it.

What happens if you get back to him on it.  "Hey... .you've been thinking about xyz for 2 days now... .I'm interested in listening to your thoughts?"


Do you feel like you chase him around for conversations?

My wife is bad about saying she wants to talk or continue something later... .and then never gets around to it.

FF
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2015, 04:52:47 AM »

I used to do this- ask to talk to my H and he says later- and then we don't talk about it.  I used to pursue him for conversations- but it seems he can't do it/ won't do it/ chooses to be in control or some other reason.

I realize I can't make anyone talk to me. I really just have to let it go- even important things- as there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it if he won't talk.

Sometimes I get the sense that he's working up a rage, and waiting for the set up- which is me trying to talk to him. Then this gives him a reason to let it fly. If he doesn't want to talk and I pursue it, then that triggers him.

Basically, I don't recall a time that I pursued or attempted to get him to talk that I didn't regret it. Now, I try to remind myself of that if/when tempted to start a conversation.
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2015, 11:29:56 AM »

Offroad said:  "This spills over into their lack of conversation abilities with the person who knows them the best. If the pwBPD lies or uses someone else's experiences to fill in for their own hole in their personality, the spouse knows what they are saying is incorrect, and the pwBPD is caught using their mask. They don't want that, so they don't talk as much to spouses. The spouse knows when the mask goes on."


WoW! Thanks Offroad. That explains why I'm having such a hard time with my dBPDgf. The silence is deafening at dinner or when in the truck. I thought it was me being too shy, or that she just wasn't interested in talking to me.  :)o they realize this on a conscious level? She is SO quiet and uncomfortable, and then projects that onto me--that I need to relax and be myself. I was questioning my own convo/people skills several times.
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2015, 01:14:05 PM »

My wife is bad about saying she wants to talk or continue something later... .and then never gets around to it.

FF

I have the same problem with H. I will ask again only once, then if it is something that only affects him, leave it. If it is something that I can take care of, I deal with it myself. I think that H often doesn't know the answer, even when thinking on it. I know S honestly doesn't know why he feels like he does sometimes but he's young enough that when I say "It feels like no one is on your side when someone doesn't agree with you." he recognizes it as being so-that even if only one person doesn't agree with him, he feels like no one agrees with him. I can't do that with H, because he gets angry when he recognizes that the thought doesn't make logical sense, even if it is how he emotionally feels.

I think that might be another part of the spouse or SO relationship. We actually do know that what they interpret from their feelings does not always make logical sense. If our SO recognizes the lack of logic when we talk to them, they feel like they have been exposed, which causes more bad feelings. It's only when they can confuse US that they feel like they have control. This goes back to validating without questioning "Why?" they would feel that way, but rather "What happened to make you feel that way?"

Riverrat, as a suggestion, the next time you gf says you need to relax and be yourself, try asking "What happened to make you think I'm not relaxed or being myself?" And don't respond right away, no matter what she says. Think about it and see if there is any truth in it.  Maybe you can get some insight as to what she is thinking. 

I have found that if I can talk just fine with everyone else, and the only one I can't talk to is H, it's not me. It could be us together, or it could be him, but it isn't just me. It makes it easier to let things go, or try to figure it out.

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« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2015, 02:15:30 PM »

Basically, I don't recall a time that I pursued or attempted to get him to talk that I didn't regret it. Now, I try to remind myself of that if/when tempted to start a conversation.

I'm less than 50% on having good follow up conversations.

Something I would like to get better on... .and don't think I've going to "drop".  However... I realize this can take a long time.

It would be different if she was fine with not talking... .but randomly she will really care about having the conversations. 

We used to have them quite frequently.

Notwendy,

Was there a time in your marriage that you had the conversations that you wanted?



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« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2015, 02:26:41 PM »

Lots of times I've tried to have a conversation with my husband about something and I'll ask "is this because of x?" And instead of the conversation continuing, he will say, "I'll have to think about that." It effectively stops the convo and of course he never gets back to me about it.

What happens if you get back to him on it.  "Hey... .you've been thinking about xyz for 2 days now... .I'm interested in listening to your thoughts?"


Do you feel like you chase him around for conversations?

My wife is bad about saying she wants to talk or continue something later... .and then never gets around to it.

FF

Lots of times this situation comes up when he wants to hear my opinion on some interpersonal issue that doesn't involve me, such as a conflict with his sisters. Usually it seems to me that the "conflict" is entirely in his head and his sisters would be surprised to hear about it. So I'll ask him some pertinent question and instead of responding to my question, he'll say, "I'll have to think about it."

Usually by the next day, I will have completely forgotten about whatever I asked, since it didn't pertain to something in the forefront of my mind. So I don't usually follow up with another question. Sometimes when I do, he's put up his armor again and seems to get irritated that I'm asking him such a personal question.  

Oh, and he also has used the word "defective" to describe himself.
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« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2015, 02:43:44 PM »

There was never a time in our r/s when we could talk. When we were dating, we had enough in common that it seemed less noticable. We were both in school, had the same circle of friends. Also, he held it together better. When I would bring up the issue, he could attribute it to being tired, stressed, we have exams and so on. Also we didn't have the typical marital issues- finances, kids, that couples have trouble discussing.

Things didn't get really bad until the kids came along and I was basically home with small kids and at that point, he was the main wage earner. Then this became a power discrepancy, and he took it an ran with it. At this time too, I was tired, pregnant, up with kids and not entirely focused on him. I was painted black. Most discussions resulted in crazy rages  with me JADEing and crying.

It has gotten somewhat better, but talking is hard. Actually we just had a discussion about finances and he kept averting the questions. I repeated them, and he began the usual talk " you're hammering me with this" I give most of the money to you and the kids, don't you think I give you enough? Do I have to ask you permission to do anything? Then he said "and I stopped doing something because I knew you didn't like it."

In the past, I would have let these things divert me as they would trigger me. However, none of them had anything to do with the discussion. They were all things he made up in his head. So, I validated his feelings, thanked him for his generosity, said no- he didn't have to ask me about everything, and then said- we are talking about X. Finally we got there.
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« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2015, 02:57:04 PM »

WOW! My husband uses the "you're hammering me... ." line too. And he says, "don't I give you enough?" when I've had extra expenses--like home repairs or veterinary bills. Is there a BPD playbook we don't know about?
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« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2015, 04:24:29 PM »

Yes, the terms he uses are so violent: you're beating me up, hammering me, slamming me... .

I don't know if this is a good idea but at one point, I started to giggle... .He is over 6 feet, I am barely 5'4". I laughed and said, yup, I'm such a giant brute that I am beating you. It seemed to lighten things up- at least this time.

This is better, since he would really be able to shame me into thinking I had hurt him, was unreasonable with money , didn't appreciate him... .but none of that is true. Neither is someone much smaller than he is beating the daylights out of him.
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« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2015, 06:08:38 PM »

Yes, the terms he uses are so violent: you're beating me up, hammering me, slamming me... .

I don't know if this is a good idea but at one point, I started to giggle... .He is over 6 feet, I am barely 5'4". I laughed and said, yup, I'm such a giant brute that I am beating you. It seemed to lighten things up- at least this time.

The exact words I have heard on several occasions... .

Yes, I'll try humor next time it happens and see if that de-escalates the situation.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2015, 05:43:27 AM »

The topic was communication. I think this goes into the not being able to have your own opinion, sense of self, feeling humiliated if he has to ask me for anything or tell me what he does. Ironically, it was him who intitiated the talk on finances with a statement about putting some money aside, and since I knew he had been putting something aside for a while, I asked about that and it turned out he had been doing that for a long time without me ever knowing about it.  I didn't get angry or accusative- just asked for better communication.

I am grateful that he is generally responsible with the finances, and he is generous to the kids and to me if I want something. He likes to have some of his earnings for himself- which is OK with me. Yet, he is secretive and ambigious about it. When I found out about this, he said " it's our rainy day fund" and then as the dicussion proceeded I find out it is his personal expense fund.

My two main requests were- please, just be specific about this. I don't want to think this is for X when it is for Y. The other request is that if he does put something aside, and it becomes substantial,  to please inform me about it so that in the case that something were to happen to him, I would know where it is. " Well, I shouldn't have to tell you about my personal expenses and it is a rainy day fund for us both because I used it to buy X for the kids " ( That's nice, but if it is a rainy day fund for us, then please let me know it is there... ).

So- after a long circular argument, with him going on about how I am slamming him, telling him he isn't he generous enough, doesn't feel he has to ask me permission to buy something ( that's submissive and humiliating to him) I can finally get to the point that what I am asking about is if we can have an agreement to keep each other generally informed as a matter of courtesy- not an attempt to nitpick, humilate him, or restrict him. Him "I don't nitpick at you for every little thing you buy " and me validating him saying " not you don't nitpick, than you for being generous" "nothing has to be different with what we are doing" " I agree that you should be able to buy things without having to ask me" ( we have an agreement to discuss major things)  and then " I would like it if we had more communication about finances".

40 minutes later- and it's " you've been hammering me for 40 minutes won't you let this go" (Me thinking -well it was was sidelined for 40 minutes... ). Not that the agreement will stick- they usually don't. I just have to accept that he is generally responsible yet, for some reason, has to be secretive about some things- not just money. It's not as if he is doing anything outrageous, he just feels that telling me is somehow humiliating to him.

I am glad that I didn't get triggered by it, at least I spoke my mind instead of saying nothing to keep the peace. I'm happy that I let all the barbs he flew out run by me, and didn't respond to them. So, if nothing else, it benefitted me to have said it, even if nothing changes on his side. I didn't feel bad after the talk, however, he went off saying " I'm a terrible husband, worthless... .and so on as if I actually did beat him emotionally.

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« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2015, 07:13:42 AM »

This is an interesting topic!

Excerpt
Is it possible that someone is so cut off from themselves that they have no real deep thinking at all? Or is their deep thinking so dysregulated with fears and self loathing that it isn't possible to process much else? I have tried for years to have a deeper ( than the weather or politics ) conversation with my H and it is just miserable. He takes so long to reply that conversations are slow and labored, and they exhaust him. I can see that it is miserable for him, and it is also miserable to me. The pattern goes like this Me: something personal.  Him ( long, long pause, then one or two words... .pause. Me- words Him - silence... .then long pause, then one word. He's talkative to others, the kids, can go on and on over something he is passionate about. Just not something that requires introspection, or some thing like spirituality, hopes, dreams, goals.

Another idea is that if someone has a poor sense of self, that they feel they have to construct their ideas as they go along, and this is stressful. I sometimes think he is so careful to guard his words because of fear. My lower functioning mother seems to have poor filters and so, talks a lot. It's almost as if his filter is so tight that hardly anything gets through?

I too have wondered if my uBPDexbf was aware and thinking within his head, but just had felt too inhibited to share what those thoughts were? Or was he too disconnected and lacking those inner thoughts?

What is also interesting is that when going through really difficult things, (losing his D to alienation, or dealing with court with his uBPDexw,) I found notes on "his thoughts"!  He sometimes kept notes of his thoughts, as though he otherwise couldn't retain them.  He would study them.  Idk about the rest of you but I really don't need to keep notes to remind myself how I feel about say, his D being alienated then faking suicide to be closer to her mom.  I can access these thoughts quite readily, maybe I would like to organize my thinking a bit if talking to the lawyer.  But that was not the purpose of the notes.  He studied them for HIM.

So does that mean without them, he was aware that he would forget his sense of self and fluctuate, therefore the notes helped him maintain his Self?  Or was he aware that he was unable to remember his thoughts and would be internally seeking an opinion within himself forever lost in there?  I wonder! 

Oh, interesting to note, his notes, were not even entirely his own thoughts.  They were borrowed thoughts from conversations he had.  Conversations from talking with me, or others who were being supportive and trying to help him process it out loud.

I admit that I have taken notes, but my notes were more like a journaling to help me organize or process the situation.  They weren't a cheat sheet of my opinion in case I needed an opinion in the future.  I didn't have to study it like a new vocabulary list to commit it to memory.  I can just dig deep and come up with my thoughts as I connect to my feelings and reprocess and remember my opinions.

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« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2015, 08:06:16 AM »

What if... .

You are driving down the highway, about 70mph.  Suddenly in front of you, you notice what appears to be... .a unicorn?

This doesn't make sense does it?

You try to make sense of it:

You wonder how it got there.  You ask yourself, "Is it really a horse that came from the side of the road?"  You scan the shoulders of the highway and look for a grassy woody area that maybe it came from.

You then think, but the horn?  Surely the only possible explanation is that this must be an ordinary animal, a horse maybe, that somebody glued a horn to as you know unicorns don't exist.  If this is an altered animal, well then maybe you start scanning the vehicles around you.  Maybe this animal actually was being delivered to a circus and fell off a truck?  So you look in your mirrors and try to find a truck that may be carrying animals.

What if... .

The unicorn is like their emotions. 

Their emotions are somewhat familiar, somewhat foreign.  They can't usually figure out where they came from.  For them, emotions just popped into thin air.  If they are forced to try to think about it and explain it, just like the story of the horse with a glued horn, on it's way to a circus, they have no choice but to invent what happened.  They look for a context for the emotion but are usually left blank, with no context they can discern.

If that really happened, a unicorn on the road in front of you.  Imagine if everyone looked at you and really expected this was a normal occurrence and that you had to know where it came from.  What if everyone thought it made sense and expected you to KNOW where the heck it was from and how it got there and what you were going to do with it?  They casually tell you that they knew where their last unicorn came from, why can't you tell them too? 

What would you say?  Would you get mad, think they are nuts?  Scream, "how am I supposed to know? unicorns (anger) don't even exist! I never see unicorns (anger)!"  Maybe you would try to avoid their questions as it would be too stressful to confront their differing reality? 

Now imagine, you are back in your car again.  That unicorn in front of you is still there!  You didn't have time to react.  You accidentally ran over the unicorn!  Now you are thinking, "how could that even be?"  "This isn't possible as they don't even exist."  "Even if they did exist, they are supposed to be magical creatures and it should have leaped away."  "I couldn't have hit that!  Darn it, why did they have to keep talking about that unicorn!  If they didn't have me so focused on unicorns, I probably could have not hit it, it probably wouldn't even be there in my way."

Maybe their disconnect with their feelings, trying to make sense of them would be similar? 

Maybe if someone said to us, "Hey, you are right, there is a small circus traveling into town.  I bet you just saw one of the animal performers today."  How relieved would we be?  Would we gratefully accept and take this explanation and keep it as our own?

Idk, what do you guys think?

Maybe I've gone too far deep and have lost my own mind?  Lol!
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« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2015, 09:52:25 AM »

I think your description is a good one. I think their feelings seem like unicorns because they were invalidated by their parents. One aspect of parenting is validating children's feelings. A child would run to his parent saying "I'm sad, or I'm scared" and the parent would say " Oh honey, I know that is scary", or "You feel sad when Billy won't share his toy with you". Kids eventually learn to identify feelings and self soothe.

In my H's house, nobody talks about feelings. They may deal with them indirectly, but not say anything. They don't express affection either. His mom is very caring, but through actions- cooking, taking care of the family but she is passive aggressive with negative feelings and not direct. Dad was a good man in the traditonal sense- ethical, worked and supported his family, but he was a verbal bully. He said something negative about almost everything. If my H said he wanted something, or liked something, his dad would say " You don't want that". You don't like that" What do you want that for?". There was no way my H would express feelings to his parents, especially his dad, and especially feelings that were considered feminine. ( Dad was a macho man).  It is no wonder that feelings are like unicorns in his family.

Hmm, that might explain why he doesn't tell me he wants something and then does it in secret, and tries to keep some money that I don't know about. Maybe, emotionally he thinks I will invalidate his wanting something. It can also explain why he gets upset when I want to talk about finances- and feels as if I am somehow invalidating his contribution to the family by trying to talk about the topic.

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« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2015, 11:03:47 PM »

Notwendy, that is interesting, as when I find out something that H didn't tell me, he gets angry at me as if I am "spying" on him. I came to find out that H thinks things in his head, but doesn't realize he didn't tell me his thoughts. Then, he gets embarrassed because he thought he told me, but he didn't. So he has to turn the problem onto me. I'm "spying", not he "didn't actually tell me."

Sunfl0wer, do you think his notes were partly things that he thought she SHOULD have thought of, but couldn't? I know my H can't remember most things three days previous. He just doesn't have the processing ability to manage that, especially when he is dysregulated. But he remembers all the definitive BAD things (in his opinion) from way back.

The most intriguing part of this for me is that there are several things that have come up recently (H and his parents talking about past events) that I would have considered child abuse, and my H and his family are acting like it's all a big joke (tossing your 7 and 9 year old children out of a boat in open water with life jackets on and telling them to get back in the sailboat as it keeps shooting by; taking your children out to the woods with no shelter, food or water for the night to "show them what hungry is"; forcing them to jump rope continuously for three weeks because the teachers at school were concerned that 8 and 10 year old boys could not jump rope-what boys jump rope?) This comes back to the invalidating environment, as what child flailing about in the open water, unable to get into a sailboat, wouldn't be terrified? But his parents have convinced H that it was no big deal (H's brother still thinks it's a big deal-he seems to have come out of this a little more centered)

If you think you cannot say anything without being told you are wrong, or not allowed to have your own opinion, what is the point of talking about anything opinion oriented? And if you can't depend on your own perception of anything, you'd start using everyone else's perceptions. And if somehow you did come up with your own opinions or perceptions and someone disagrees with them, it seems like you'd have to go into fight or flight mode because you aren't secure enough to know it's OK to have your own opinion or perception. I never thought about what a lousy environment that must have been to grow up in.
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« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2015, 05:08:53 AM »

Offroad- you have brought up an interesting point. My H once brought up an incident that was, without a doubt, child abuse on the part of his father. He wouldn't do this to his kids, but he denies that there was abuse. If I say anything about his family that indicates that I think things were not so OK as he thinks they are, he considers that to be disloyal and critical.

Very interesting dynamic, since this is the typical pattern of these kind of families- denial. Mine too, with the exception that I was aware things were not right, even if I was not allowed to say anything to my parents about it. The other difference is that I was the black child in my family and my H was the white child, so it is possible he didn't experience more of the darker aspects of his family life like I did, and is also more enmeshed emotionally. The keeping a secret stash of food, cash, fear of things being taken from him, need to keep some things from me, may be remnants of childhood, and this may be deeper than I have any idea of.

Then, there was the time that I wrote about when we were visiting his family and I wanted to leave because of a storm coming, not wanting to drive in it, and that became a rage about me not being nice to his family. That response seemed irrational at the time, but it would make sense if there is any fear of offending them or triggering them.
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« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2015, 06:13:30 AM »

I have deep and meaningfuls with my partner. BUT they always seem like reconstructs, it is like a complicated excuse to cover up the fact that there is no consistent deep and meaningful. Almost like a crib or plagiarism of some insights she heard somewhere else and is trying to shoehorn it into her explanation of her own thoughts.

Subsequent actions or conversations often bear no resemblance to previous deep and meaningful "self revelations"
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« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2015, 06:21:09 AM »

I agree with that Waverider. It is more obvious to me with my mother. It is eerie to me to see that she sometimes bases her "mothering" memories on what I have told her about me and the kids. She will sometimes ask me my opinion about something, and then turn around and say it as if it were hers.

I used to wonder what kind of "deep" thoughts my H has, and I really don't think they are there. I think it is more like the static on a TV screen when the chanels go out. I think his slow labored responses are a result of him having to construct something to say out of their library of borrowed scenarios.

It makes sense in the context of being abused. I suspect that my mother was abused as a child, although I will not know for sure as any perpetrator must be long gone by now. Abuse would make you disconnect from yourself. They may not be able to access deep thoughts if those events are traumatic. It is so sad really- if we think about it in this context.

I wonder if therapy is successful at bringing out some of these issues for them?
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« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2015, 06:44:42 AM »

I find in therapy my partner can bring up some previously unheard of isolated incident which to me sounds twisted or even made up, that is often given more weight to explain behaviors... Then its never heard of again. It can send therapy off on a red herring.
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« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2015, 07:03:08 AM »

I remember a few years ago when my mother, after a major disregulation, explained her behavior to me as something that happened with her mother. I was thinking this wasn't really the reason, and - whatever she was referring to happend 50 years ago.

It seems to me that considering this as a disability is more realistic, but to do so, is also giving up hope in a sense because although people can improve function with a disability, in many cases, one can not entirely correct it. If we had a spouse who could not walk, we would arange the house with rails, ramps, invest in equipment that would be helpful, physical therapy to make them as strong and healthy as possible, but we wouldn't be trying to make them walk would we? We would also love and accept that person for who they are as well. We might wish they could walk but recognize that expecting them to is not a realistic approach.

How much of this idea is being realistic, and how much is enabling their dysfunction by just not bothering to try to talk to them in a meaningful way? Sometimes my H tells me he thinks I have "written him off" because he senses that I have stopped trying to talk to him as much  in a deeper sense, yet there is some truth in that because it has not been effective. As much as he seems to dislike it, I also think he relied on my efforts to keep some communication like this going.
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« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2015, 07:15:04 AM »

It is validating for them to be heard, even if the message is jumbled and maybe wide of the mark. Its the process, not the resolution, that matters. Its the reason I engage in the deep and meaningfulls without really expecting to find the answer to everything in some hidden nugget.

Its a kind of venting I guess... Most venting is catastrophizing by nature. Maybe a lifetime of having these 'vents" being dismissed creates an insecurity blockage.
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« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2015, 07:31:14 AM »

That's a good point Waverider. Again, it is easier to see with my mother, whose boundaries are loser than my H's. It seems as if she'll say anything, while he spends a lot of energy judging and filtering what he says to the point that he doesn't reveal much of anything unless he is raging and that is when the filter is off.

Feeling invalidated is much of the theme for my mother. I think my H feels this too, but doesn't express it. Just about anything can result in my mother feeling invalidated. Even the off handed hint of a suggestion can set her off. For instance she was asking my advice about some painters in the house. I mentioned that it made a bigger mess than I expected, and since I wished I had done this- that it might be less of a cleanup if she put some things in boxes ahead of time. This resulted in her becoming dysregulated because she assumed that I was telling her what to do because I didn't think she knew what to do and so on.  When my dad was sick, I had asked some questions about his medication. Her take on this was that I was only criticizing her. My H thinks a lot of what I say is criticism when it is not.

So, I get the concept of them experience being heard as very important regardless of the content. I think we all need that.
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« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2015, 03:58:26 PM »

Offroad- you have brought up an interesting point. My H once brought up an incident that was, without a doubt, child abuse on the part of his father. He wouldn't do this to his kids, but he denies that there was abuse. If I say anything about his family that indicates that I think things were not so OK as he thinks they are, he considers that to be disloyal and critical.

***Respectfully snipped for space***

Then, there was the time that I wrote about when we were visiting his family and I wanted to leave because of a storm coming, not wanting to drive in it, and that became a rage about me not being nice to his family. That response seemed irrational at the time, but it would make sense if there is any fear of offending them or triggering them.

It makes me wonder if their sense of identity is so skewed that they think of themselvesas extensions of their parents. If they could only do things the way their parents said it had to be done, and now they do it that way and think it's the only way to be done, if a SO criticizes the parent, it's like we are criticizing our SO themselves.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail the communication thread. It just makes me think of why a pwBPD might have so much trouble communicating with their SO, when they seem able to communicate with others. I'm pretty convinced now that it's just because we know them like no one else does.
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« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2015, 04:07:59 PM »

You haven't derailed it at all. It has given me different ways to think about it. Communication has been something I have truly struggled with the entire marriage- how can someone so intelligent not be able to talk? It baffles me. I have not seen anything like it. When people think of communication difficulties, they think of people with autism. However, people with autism tend to be honest, and speak their mind. The tend to not try to make their words what they think other people need to hear. I have found it easier to communicate with people with autism than to communicate with my H... and it makes me so sad sometimes that I can't get through that voice in his head that overwrites what I say.
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« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2015, 07:43:00 PM »

Excerpt
Lots of times I've tried to have a conversation with my husband about something and I'll ask "is this because of x?" And instead of the conversation continuing, he will say, "I'll have to think about that." It effectively stops the convo and of course he never gets back to me about it.


What happens if you get back to him on it.  "Hey... .you've been thinking about xyz for 2 days now... .I'm interested in listening to your thoughts?"

(Apparently idk how to quote within quote... .hopefully you recognize your writing guys.)

Omg, don't get me started!  It would drive me nuts! Mines' favorite phrase was: "oh, I haven't really thought of that."  He used it to get out of almost any conversation.  I DID go back to him for opinions the next day.  He either didn't get around to thinking about it still, or would want to hear my thoughts first, or had some really lame one dimensional basic thought that often didn't demonstrate he even understood the point much.

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« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2015, 07:59:40 PM »

Excerpt
I must think on this. This might explain why H was always insisting that the kids do things HIS way, whereas I would show the kids the way I did it, then tell them to adjust as they needed to for themselves.

Offroad, I wonder... .

My ex did this, but he was inconsistent.  For the first year dating, when at his house, he insisted the dishes be washed a certain way, in a certain order, to maximize use of the soap and water etc.  He would keep correcting me, like a child, and I politely did this because I got the sense that it was an important ritual passed on by his grandmother.  Then at some point he abandoned this "need."

I think that he borrowed his grandmas way for only a period of time... .but then another period of time... .will insist loading the dishwasher another way.  It is like his opinion rotates once in a while like some spinner and it points to one option at a time.

Whereas, non's can combine ideas from several sources and created their desired "procedure."  I think he cannot combine and filter ideas, so he just picks the one that is at his awareness for that time.

I think this is also why he cannot compromise, he can't pick apart thought, take what he needs, create new ideas from it and come up with a new thought.
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« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2015, 08:18:31 PM »

I think that he borrowed his grandmas way for only a period of time... .but then another period of time... .will insist loading the dishwasher another way.  It is like his opinion rotates once in a while like some spinner and it points to one option at a time.

Whereas, non's can combine ideas from several sources and created their desired "procedure."  I think he cannot combine and filter ideas, so he just picks the one that is at his awareness for that time.

I think this is also why he cannot compromise, he can't pick apart thought, take what he needs, create new ideas from it and come up with a new thought.

I agree that they just pick the one that is at their awareness for that time. When stressed, my H has to do certain things certain ways. He then backslides when the need to be in control has passed and cycles through again when the stress levels rise. The more out of control he feels, the more he has to grab onto some "routine" that he doesn't have to think about, just do.

I go back to the communication issue and think that if their minds are stressed (which might happen when we ask them something they don't have a ready answer to), they can't pick through the thoughts they have stored quickly enough to come up with an answer. This would explain why they might use something someone else said, because it is at the forefront of their mind.
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« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2015, 11:30:36 AM »

Thanks to all... .you have so hit the nail on the head for me!

I still struggle with basic communication/conversation with dBPDgf.

So intelligent, so outgoing with others, but can't talk to me about anything.

And like was stated, when asked a question, I can be faced with a two minute eerie silence while she searches for an answer. But say something else in that time frame and she becomes unglued and visibly upset that I derailed her train of processing. She will also tell me to slow down, count to ten, and THINK about MY responses before I answer her.  Trying to pull me to her level, perhaps.

We used to have great convo in idealization phase. Now those topics are either depressing, broken dreams, not interesting, or "we've already talked about that". Does anyone else deal with "I've got lots to share with you, but I'm just not there with you yet"? She wants to tell me feelings and history, but perhaps can't face it herself.

I feel this drives us apart more than anything. I feel I could understand more, based on my BPD readings--but it's difficult without all the puzzle pieces.

I can also identify with "rotisserie" procedures. Everything done a certain way with certain materials, until she flips it, and doesn't ACTUALLY tell me to do things differently, but then I get treated like a 5th grader. Usually I'm told to "write it down" so I can study and remember it.

This is 10 times tougher than I expected, and sometimes I treat her like an old college roommate.  Just do my own thing, cook my own dinner, and show minimal interest in her activities. Not exactly the r/s I even remotely imagined.   
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« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2015, 03:24:26 PM »

Excerpt
And like was stated, when asked a question, I can be faced with a two minute eerie silence while she searches for an answer. But say something else in that time frame and she becomes unglued and visibly upset that I derailed her train of processing. She will also tell me to slow down, count to ten, and THINK about MY responses before I answer her.  Trying to pull me to her level, perhaps.

YES!  The pause he takes, it is like a whole 3 mins!  I actually had to ask if he understood, heard, etc.  but then he would be furious as, he was "thinking," and my question interrupted his thought process!  Then we are fighting about THAT!  So I started with a hand signal to signal: "are you thinking?"  But he would still find reason to be enraged that I wasn't being considerate, I interrupted etc.  So I decided on emails, then he could review that I was in fact being reasonable.  But then he began to refuse emails, complained I was making a big deal out of things!  I was going out of my fricken way to accommodate his lack of logic!  (I guess not actually too logical of me after all!  Lol!)

Excerpt
We used to have great convo in idealization phase.

Yes! This is what I fell in love with!  Where did it go?  I guess it wasn't there? 

Excerpt
I can also identify with "rotisserie" procedures. Everything done a certain way with certain materials, until she flips it, and doesn't ACTUALLY tell me to do things differently, but then I get treated like a 5th grader. Usually I'm told to "write it down" so I can study and remember it.

Lol!  We need to start a new thread! Or maybe article.  Topic: invented vocabulary. "Rotisserie procedures" I love it!

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« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2015, 04:41:17 PM »

In idealization phase or with strangers they can 'wing it" with whatever statement they feel will impress, and they are good at it. You don't know enough about them to see through the hot air.

If someone knows them well then they know you will see through the polished presentation to the lack of substance beneath. Hence they doubt their own ability to sound confident. Hence they can falter completely. They can't offer opinions they believe may be open to debate, they need to believe they are right, or at least sell that image, before stepping up to the podium.

Think of it as how we would approach public speaking, if you believe your audience is informed enough to justifiably question your statements, you become reluctant to step up, and voice your somewhat questionable knowledge.
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« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2015, 05:08:28 PM »

"YES!  The pause he takes, it is like a whole 3 mins!  I actually had to ask if he understood, heard, etc.  but then he would be furious as, he was "thinking," and my question interrupted his thought process!  Then we are fighting about THAT! "


The interval between words is frustrating and yes, I get accused of interrupting his thought processes if I say anything.
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« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2015, 05:25:06 PM »

Where were you guys 5 yrs ago?

J/k, very grateful! Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2015, 01:02:46 AM »

The interval between words is frustrating and yes, I get accused of interrupting his thought processes if I say anything.

Also the intervals at the end of sentences. You think they are finished because the silent space is so long, but they aren't. Then you are accused of interrupting.

This is especially tough for me. I came from a family where we talked rapid fire, sometimes spilling over each other, but we all knew exactly what each other had said and kept building upon the various conversations going on at once. I've run into other people who are this way, but it drives H crazy ( also his mother). What frustrates H even more is that the kids and I can get into rapid fire mode, and he cannot keep up at all so he gets mad, even if he wasn't part of the original conversation.
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« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2015, 06:46:13 AM »

Drives you even madder when you are busy doing things around the house and you are expected to stand in the doorway to see if convo has finished or not, meanwhile the taps left running, bursting to go to the loo, rushing to get dinner cooked etc. Then you get "see you just walk away when i'm trying to talk to you"
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« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2015, 07:12:05 AM »

Excerpt
Drives you even madder when you are busy doing things around the house and you are expected to stand in the doorway to see if convo has finished or not, meanwhile the taps left running, bursting to go to the loo, rushing to get dinner cooked etc. Then you get "see you just walk away when i'm trying to talk to you"

Yup!  Or the opposite would happen.  He would walk away like the conversation was over, like he was trying to escape, hoping I'd forget.  I'd ask, uh, are you not going to respond?  Then he'd be pissed and say he intended to but just had to use the toilet or something.  Huh?  He'd just walk away, not an: "be right back" or anything, just would walk away with me in suspenseful waiting and staring.
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« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2015, 07:48:08 AM »

Mine will say something completely unrelated to the conversation. I wonder if it is a tactic. I could be discussing something that is important to me, or personal, and then he will say something like " I need to buy new socks".

Once he did that, and I responded with "Oh look! A squirrel!"  He did laugh.
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« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2015, 02:37:04 PM »

Drives you even madder when you are busy doing things around the house and you are expected to stand in the doorway to see if convo has finished or not, meanwhile the taps left running, bursting to go to the loo, rushing to get dinner cooked etc. Then you get "see you just walk away when i'm trying to talk to you"

Yes, and g-dforbid if you cough, clear your throat or dare to say something during the long pause. 
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« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2015, 02:40:06 PM »

Mine will say something completely unrelated to the conversation. I wonder if it is a tactic. I could be discussing something that is important to me, or personal, and then he will say something like " I need to buy new socks".

Once he did that, and I responded with "Oh look! A squirrel!"  He did laugh.

If I'm saying something personal, he often won't say anything at all, just sit there like a lump, not giving me eye contact, or sometimes he'll pick up his iPad and start Googling. It's unbelievably disrespectful when he demands my full attention, yet he doesn't see how he comes across as so disinterested and unkind.

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« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2015, 03:02:09 PM »




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This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .

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