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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: Ultimatums  (Read 483 times)
Rockylove
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« on: March 15, 2015, 05:31:59 PM »

Can anyone give me a good response for ultimatums?  My uBPDh knows my hot buttons and now he's using them constantly.  Most recently, he said that I need to quit smoking when he does or I'd have to get out.  How in the world does one respond to that?  I just ignored it, but I hate these threats of kicking me out so it's difficult for me not to have it on my mind.
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2015, 06:14:51 PM »

Does he want you to quit because he cares about your health?  I mean... it can be something worse. 
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2015, 06:49:45 PM »

Can anyone give me a good response for ultimatums?  My uBPDh knows my hot buttons and now he's using them constantly.  Most recently, he said that I need to quit smoking when he does or I'd have to get out.  How in the world does one respond to that?  I just ignored it, but I hate these threats of kicking me out so it's difficult for me not to have it on my mind.

"I'd be happy to smoke on the back porch when you have quit smoking." or "I can go outside to smoke while you are trying to quit."

Or even "I know it's going to be really tough to quite smoking, so I'll do my best to not smoke around you."

What he's really saying is that if he's trying to quit smoking, you smoking around him will make it hard, if not impossible, for him to quit. Address whatever the real issue is and see if that helps.
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Rockylove
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2015, 07:26:21 PM »

What he's really saying is that if he's trying to quit smoking, you smoking around him will make it hard, if not impossible, for him to quit. Address whatever the real issue is and see if that helps.

I totally understand that it would be too difficult for him to quit if I were still smoking and I'd already agreed to quit with him, but that's what makes this even more difficult.  He had no reason to say that.  What IS the real issue?  I've no clue!  He uses this ultimatum for EVERYTHING now.  Be this way... .or get out.  UGH!  I've tried just ignoring it, but it's getting on my last nerve which is already strung way too tight.  Maybe he'll get tired of saying it since I'm not going anywhere  LOL
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 04:21:01 AM »

I'd be tempted to ignore the threats since it seems he makes them alot but doesn't follow through.

I think it may be a sense of shame of feeling inferior if the focus is on him smoking. You may have already agreed to quit with him, but maybe this is how he feels - almost like a little kid saying to a parent " it's not fair you let Billy watch TV and not me!"

In general though, if one family member needs to quit a habit like smoking, or lose weight, it is better if all the family members are comitted to doing the same if they need to- or even if they don't need to lose weight- to keep the tempting food out of the house. It would be hard to quit smoking if other people in the home were still smoking.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 03:28:46 PM »

My suggestion is don't engage on the ultimatum--he is manufacturing it and trying to put it on you to manipulate you. You don't have to play... .try this:

H: "You have to quit smoking or get out."

You: "I haven't quit smoking. I'm not leaving. If you really want to split from me, I won't keep you--move yourself out."

Actually that response might work for any "You must... .or move out." threat.

Acknowledging that you heard him say it, and that you aren't accepting the rules he's trying to dictate are good. Turning it around so that if he wants to change something, it will be due to his actions is also good.
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 03:45:55 PM »

when a pwBPD finds a button that gives a response, they use it over and over again. he's doing this to try to control you by keeping you confused.

I like gk suggestion: if you want to break up-leave-I won't stop you but I'm not going anywhere.

it's an empty threat-imo-but don't let him use it to get under your skin. 
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 05:45:44 PM »

Going back to basics, we learn early between the difference between ultimatums and boundaries.

So how is he going to make you do anything... ie get out?

As you are experiencing, ultimatums are very triggering to be on the end of. Hence the reason we shouldn't use them.

Can you get him to clarify what the "boundary and consequence' he is going to action is? I know this opens the door to conflict, but it may stop the easy use of the throwaway threat. Which simply becomes habit forming.
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Rockylove
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 04:27:40 PM »

Perhaps I should clarify.  We had talked about quitting smoking and I agreed that I'd quite with him, but we need to chose a quit date.  HE chose a date and said that I needed to quit or get out.  I never said I wouldn't... .never even suggested that, but he chose to be a snot about it.  The house is in his name.  We are married and I don't know that he can actually kick me out (especially for the reason he's giving) but if he wanted me out, I've no doubt he make up some reason. 

Waverider... .I'm not sure that the boundary and consequence is even the issue here.  I'm feeling this is a control issue because he knows I don't have a job or money right now since I've been taking care of him and I'd have to go couch surfing until I could find another job, etc. 

tjay... .I'm thinking about what you've said about telling him that he can leave but I'm not... .I may have to try that.  He can't go anywhere unless someone comes pick him up and is willing to take care of him with his disability.  Come to think of it... .maybe that's why he's pulling this crap... .he knows I've got places to go, but he doesn't.  WOW... .now I'm sad for him.   
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 07:28:09 PM »

Now it makes sense. He CAN'T get out, and he doesn't like it. He's not sure he can manage whatever it is and fears you will tell him he has to manage whatever it is and he is stuck.

If it were me, if H said ":)o X or get out." I'd simply say "That was rude and uncalled for. I have no intention of going anywhere." Then go do something for myself.

Waverider is right. Exactly HOW is he going to make you leave? You don't have to walk out just because he says you do.
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Rockylove
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 07:28:45 AM »

He CAN'T get out, and he doesn't like it. He's not sure he can manage whatever it is and fears you will tell him he has to manage whatever it is and he is stuck.

If it were me, if H said ":)o X or get out." I'd simply say "That was rude and uncalled for. I have no intention of going anywhere." Then go do something for myself.

Waverider is right. Exactly HOW is he going to make you leave? You don't have to walk out just because he says you do.

I may have to try your suggestion... .He cycles so rapidly that if I just leave the room or go to bed, by the next day (or sometimes the next hour) he's back to "normal." 

I'm so physically tired and achy and emotionally drained that I've been reacting instead of acting.  I never thought I'd burn out so quickly from being his "caregiver" after the stroke.  I think it's time for me to get back to my stronger self.
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 10:49:55 AM »



I see two pathways.

One pathway... .you want to end the conversation and toss the ball in his court as quickly as possible.  Something along GK or offroad's suggestion is probably the way to go.  I'm a little shy about mentioning for him to get out if he wants to.  pwBPD traits tend to twist things they hear... .and he may hear "my wife wants me to move out... ."  IMO... .better to focus on ending the conversation... .than continuing to mention an action "moving out" that you don't want to do... .and it sounds like you don't want him to do.

The above pathway is the best thing to do when you are tired and "not on your game... "

If you get your energy up and feel ready to try to engage him... .then one of my favorites is "help me understand how that is your choice to make?"  or something along the "help me understand... ." line of thinking.

Remember... .you are listening for emotions and feelings to validate... .trying to sort out something you can actually do to make things better (is there a reasonable request in there)... .from the emotion driven randomness that comes in the moment.

Question:  How long does it take him to "get over" this when you ignore and walk out?  If it's short... .that might be best thing to do... just ignore.

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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 11:02:44 AM »

"help me understand how that is your choice to make?". Thank you, formflier. A new, valuable tool for my toolbox.
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 11:09:39 AM »

 

Your welcome.!... it works well for me.  That seems to be the key... .find things that work for you.

Eventually... your toolbox is full up of things that work for the particulars in your r/s

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Rockylove
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2015, 03:37:02 PM »

If you get your energy up and feel ready to try to engage him... .then one of my favorites is "help me understand how that is your choice to make?"  or something along the "help me understand... ." line of thinking.

Remember... .you are listening for emotions and feelings to validate... .trying to sort out something you can actually do to make things better (is there a reasonable request in there)... .from the emotion driven randomness that comes in the moment.

Question:  How long does it take him to "get over" this when you ignore and walk out?  If it's short... .that might be best thing to do... just ignore.

Most often it doesn't take long for him to get over whatever it is... .if I let it go.  I'm grateful for the suggestions.  I've NOT been on top of my game lately.  Time to take a step back and breathe! 
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Mike-X
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 04:15:03 PM »

Do you think he might be anxious about his ability to quit? Then maybe rather than expressing his own anxiety and concern he is projecting his fear of failure on to you? Just a guess... .

How about validating his fear and anxiety? For example,something like "Honey I am worried about quitting smoking. Are you? I am certainly here to support you in your effort to quit, because I know that it will be a struggle for both of us."

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Rockylove
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 05:00:56 PM »

Do you think he might be anxious about his ability to quit? Then maybe rather than expressing his own anxiety and concern he is projecting his fear of failure on to you? Just a guess... .

How about validating his fear and anxiety? For example,something like "Honey I am worried about quitting smoking. Are you? I am certainly here to support you in your effort to quit, because I know that it will be a struggle for both of us."

Mike-X and all... .your suggestions are really so helpful to me.  I've been in such a funk lately and it's been challenging to deal with everything.  Just reading your responses and re-reading the lessons and tools have given me hope again. 
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2015, 06:17:56 PM »

You've got lots of good advice on how to handle his BPD behaviors... .and seem to be running with it pretty well, but this caught my attention:

I'm so physically tired and achy and emotionally drained that I've been reacting instead of acting.  I never thought I'd burn out so quickly from being his "caregiver" after the stroke.  I think it's time for me to get back to my stronger self.

What about you? You kinda got backed into a caregiver role... .which is very exhausting and difficult even for somebody who is easier to care for than a pwBPD like your husband!

He's gone through a few months of recovery from the stroke, and still needs at least some care.

How long is he likely to be this way?

How long can you handle a life like this?

How can you make a life for yourself that you feel good about, feel like you are strong, that you are accomplishing things for yourself? Can you do that in your caretaker role?
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Rockylove
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2015, 07:12:55 PM »

It's difficult at best, Grey Kitty.  I don't know how long his disabilities will be an issue.  I've stopped doing certain things and he's done them for himself.  I threw my hands up because he wasn't listening to the PT's advise or allowing me to help him, so... . 

I think he enjoys the attention he's been getting, but I'm not a door mat.  He's made improvements, albeit slowly.  His arm/hand still is not responding and he can't walk without the aid of a quad cane.  This may be the best he gets or he may make more improvements.  Whatever comes in the future is not for me to know... .my crystal ball is broken.

I've been working in my studio and I'm applying to be an art vendor in a local farmer's market every Saturday.  I'm really looking forward to it.  The weather is getting warmer and I'll be outside as much as possible.  I may not be able to go back to work full time but I'm happy doing what I'm able to do with the limitations. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2015, 07:34:46 PM »

 

So... .I think Grey has a good observation.  You already identified it... .you are in a funk. 

So... .assume you husband is the best he is going to be... .what do you need to do in order to handle this... .and get out of the funk in the short term.

And avoid falling back in it... .long term.

next issue...

After seeing your response... .I would go with suggestion 1 that I made.  Ignore... .or find a way to say something while exiting... .and let him get over it.

What kind of things is he not listening to his PT about?
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2015, 08:28:34 PM »

I think you are doing pretty well at using the tools with him.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Your studio time and farmers market artist sounds excellent for you.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

This still has me concerned... .

I think he enjoys the attention he's been getting, but I'm not a door mat.  He's made improvements, albeit slowly.  His arm/hand still is not responding and he can't walk without the aid of a quad cane.  This may be the best he gets or he may make more improvements.  Whatever comes in the future is not for me to know... .my crystal ball is broken.

I'm gonna be tough on you and ask you to say hello to the elephant in the room. It is hard to live with a pwBPD. It is hard to live as a caregiver. It is even harder to live as a caregiver for a pwBPD. It is taking a hell of a lot out of you to do this.

I'm sure that the idea of leaving him when he needs a caregiver would make you feel really guilty, and I know this is the staying board... .if you haven't thought about leaving yet, I'd be amazed.

What are your limits? How much of it can you take? How long can you do it? How much of your life are you willing to dedicate to this?
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Rockylove
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2015, 08:36:04 AM »

This still has me concerned... .

I'm gonna be tough on you and ask you to say hello to the elephant in the room. It is hard to live with a pwBPD. It is hard to live as a caregiver. It is even harder to live as a caregiver for a pwBPD. It is taking a hell of a lot out of you to do this.

I'm sure that the idea of leaving him when he needs a caregiver would make you feel really guilty, and I know this is the staying board... .if you haven't thought about leaving yet, I'd be amazed.

What are your limits? How much of it can you take? How long can you do it? How much of your life are you willing to dedicate to this?

Truthfully, I've only once thought about leaving since the stroke and it was very early on in his recovery.  He was being completely irrational and I was exhausted, resentful and very angry.  We had a huge fight and he told me to get out.  I would have, but I am loyal to my word and I promised to be by his side through good times and bad.

What are my limits?  It depends.  How much of it can I take?  It depends on what "it" is.  How much of my life am I willing to dedicate to this? It depends.  What exactly does one sacrifice when they enter a relationship whether it's with BPD or not?  We all make choices.  We give a little and take a little too.  Sometimes we give a lot and get nothing tangible in return... .except knowing that I'm doing what I feel is the right thing to do for someone I love. 

I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but for today, I'm doing well and feeling better than I had in months.  This moment is all I've got... .the last one is gone and the next isn't promised.

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Mike-X
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2015, 10:57:30 AM »

Truthfully, I've only once thought about leaving since the stroke and it was very early on in his recovery.  He was being completely irrational and I was exhausted, resentful and very angry.  We had a huge fight and he told me to get out.  I would have, but I am loyal to my word and I promised to be by his side through good times and bad.

What are my limits?  It depends.  How much of it can I take?  It depends on what "it" is.  How much of my life am I willing to dedicate to this? It depends.  What exactly does one sacrifice when they enter a relationship whether it's with BPD or not?  We all make choices.  We give a little and take a little too.  Sometimes we give a lot and get nothing tangible in return... .except knowing that I'm doing what I feel is the right thing to do for someone I love. 

I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but for today, I'm doing well and fe |iiiieling better than I had in months.  This moment is all I've got... .the last one is gone and the next isn't promised.

Beautiful!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2015, 01:18:31 PM »

I am loyal to my word and I promised to be by his side through good times and bad.

... .

Sometimes we give a lot and get nothing tangible in return... .except knowing that I'm doing what I feel is the right thing to do for someone I love. 

I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but for today, I'm doing well and feeling better than I had in months.  This moment is all I've got... .the last one is gone and the next isn't promised.

You sound very healthy in how you are looking at this.

Loyalty is a wonderful thing. As long as you remember to be loyal to yourself too, I trust you will do well in this moment... .and the next one that you get. 
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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2015, 06:47:02 PM »

 

Rocky,

I approach my r/s with the same attitude.

I will admit it is wearing thin right now... .but I'm giving it my best shot still!

FF
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Rockylove
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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2015, 07:52:42 PM »

Loyalty is a wonderful thing. As long as you remember to be loyal to yourself too, I trust you will do well in this moment... .and the next one that you get. 

I am loyal to myself.  I'm doing what I can to keep myself from going under. 

story:  I was out in the yard today as it was such a pleasant day.  I was cutting down annoying brush and pulling branches and digging holes to transplant bushes.  I was feeling good and I thought I'd taken enough breaks, but alas... .  Exhaustion set in and I went into the bedroom to lie down for a minute.  The dogs were bugging the heck out of me and I could barely drag myself to the kitchen to feed them.  When I came back, my husband said "we don't need to eat dinner tonight" which equates to I don't have to cook.  He has some communication issues since the stroke, but I know what he's saying.  It rubbed me the wrong way.  I told him that I appreciated the sentiment and I know his heart was in the right place, but just because I was too tired to cook didn't mean I wasn't hungry and wanted to eat.

I got up and made a simple dinner (shrimp scampi over pasta with steamed veggies) which he ate and enjoyed.  Next trip to the grocery, I'm getting a bunch of frozen pizzas!
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« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2015, 07:55:07 PM »

and just so you all know... .my efforts were well rewarded!  Under the branches and brush I found lovely English Ivy, Daffodils and Day Lilly plants!
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