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Author Topic: alternatives to JADE response?  (Read 807 times)
calmhope

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« on: March 16, 2015, 10:56:45 AM »

When my partner is dysregulated and devaluing me, he heaps on accusations about me not showing appreciation for him (at all) or not contributing to our relationship (at all).

Here is where I am really struggling to not JADE.

On the one hand I am painfully aware that JADE (especially defending and explaining) never gets me anywhere in these situations, and only invites his mocking or discounting of my responses.

On the other hand, during these conflicts he tends to aggressively grill me with "what have you done for me lately" type questions, and if he senses any hesitation he is quick to come back with "Aha! See? You can't even remember that last time you [did something thoughtful for me, contributed, etc.]!"

On a gut level I have always felt like it's useless (and exhausting) to JADE, but I don't know what else to do when he is grilling me. Do I just not respond? Maybe that will be perceived as acquiescing, dodging, or ignoring.
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 11:20:52 AM »

I think it is easier to not respond to the accusations when you can own the truth about yourself. Many of them are based on their own feelings, but we buy into them, because they are hurtful and of course, we don't want our partners to feel that we don't care about them.

Read about validation and SET. The accusations are about their feelings, and feelings are truth to them, but they are not necessarily true about you.

When you JADE, and defend the accusation, you accept the truth, and share it. However, if there is nothing to defend, then you don't have to defend it.  If someone came up to you on the street and said " You are a giant bird!" Would you defend it, or would you think " that's not true, I am not a bird".

It helps when we can maintain strong boundaries- what is true for you isn't necessarily true for me. If you think I am a bird, that doesn't make me a bird, no matter what.

I don't participate in these arguments any more and so they don't escalate. If I get upset, then I say, I need to calm down, we can talk about this later- and just leave. Or I can validate the feeling, not the fact " I see that you feel that I haven't done anything lately"  If it escalates, don't respond. It's not easy to do this kind of thing, but as you react less by defending, it can change the course of the conversation.
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takingandsending
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 01:24:39 PM »

Hi calmhope.

I am going to really reinforce notwendy's response:

I don't participate in these arguments any more and so they don't escalate. If I get upset, then I say, I need to calm down, we can talk about this later- and just leave. Or I can validate the feeling, not the fact " I see that you feel that I haven't done anything lately"  If it escalates, don't respond. It's not easy to do this kind of thing, but as you react less by defending, it can change the course of the conversation.

When your partner is already dysregulating, communication tools are not going to be all that helpful, in my experience. The key to maintaining sanity and not escalating is to know your boundaries. You have certain core, intrinsic values you hold. When he is grilling you, is he in alignment or out of alignment with those central values? If he is out of alignment, the most important thing you can do at that moment is take care of yourself by stating your boundary, not in a threatening way, but in a calm, factual way. I usually validate best I can in the moment my uBPDw's feelings, and then, like notwendy, I state I have to clear my head, I cannot discuss it further until I calm down, etc. I try to end with a I will be back in xyz minutes. We can talk more about it then.

Sure, there may be some truth in what your partner says. People with BPD are very observant, but those truths are often distorted out of proportion due to their reactive thought processes. So, yes, own your truths, but it is also very easy to own more than you should. I think developing boundaries in these instances avoids JADEing and also allows everyone's thoughts to come down from reactivity. I will say, in my case, I often never get back to talk over those "issues" that were raised, usually because my wife has moved on and doesn't want to discuss them.
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Aurylian
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 07:03:19 PM »

takingandsending is right, if your partner is dysregulated then get out of Dodge.  Take your time out, be strong even if you have to just walk away.  Nothing you can do will help at those times.

I eventually had success with being strong on the topic for discussion.  If I had something I wanted to discuss I would start.  The moment my BPDw would start deflecting or going to emotional blackmail I would validate her feelings (not the facts), and tell her that her topic was very important to me, but I would only discuss one thing at a time.  Then I would get back to the primary issue.  If she kept deflecting then I would call time out and try and address it later.  It took some time, but eventually she started to accept it.

If you provide intermittent reinforcement by letting the topic drift, or not sticking with your boundaries then you invite the cycle to continue.
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 07:27:26 PM »

"If you provide intermittent reinforcement by letting the topic drift, or not sticking with your boundaries then you invite the cycle to continue.

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Well said. My H tends to derail the conversation. If we JADE and defend the derailing, it is reinforcing to them.
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 02:36:47 AM »

On the other hand, during these conflicts he tends to aggressively grill me with "what have you done for me lately" type questions, and if he senses any hesitation he is quick to come back with "Aha! See? You can't even remember that last time you [did something thoughtful for me, contributed, etc.]!"

Can you joke with your guy? Something along the lines of looking at your watch and saying "In the last five minutes? Absolutely nothing." Give him a kiss. "That's a small down payment, I need to go write a list of things to do for you." Then disappear. This only works for some types of people or in certain situations.
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2015, 06:18:26 AM »

I actually state in laymans terms that I am not going to JADE, and will enact a boundary if pushed.

eg:

'This is my view, I have stated it, I am entitled to it and I will not be pressured into constantly justifying it. If you continue like this I will go elsewhere and you can argue with yourself.'
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calmhope

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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 11:37:19 AM »

So much helpful advice here! As always, I really appreciate everyone's support. I'm getting a teensy bit better at not JADEing, and I see that I remain a little bit calmer when I try to stay away from defending myself. (Even a little bit of calmness during those storms is so very welcome!) My partner seems to really hate it when I don't engage with him while he is grilling me, but I'm hoping that if I stick with it (along with getting better at validation and SET), that our dynamic may shift a bit over time.
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IsItHerOrIsItMe
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 11:59:05 AM »

I actually state in laymans terms that I am not going to JADE, and will enact a boundary if pushed.

eg:

'This is my view, I have stated it, I am entitled to it and I will not be pressured into constantly justifying it. If you continue like this I will go elsewhere and you can argue with yourself.'

Boy I love that quote... .if I can only keep my head until I say it... .
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takingandsending
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 03:28:37 PM »

Hi calmhope

My partner seems to really hate it when I don't engage with him while he is grilling me, but I'm hoping that if I stick with it (along with getting better at validation and SET), that our dynamic may shift a bit over time.

Please be aware for your own health and happiness that validation and SET are better tools when your partner is not emotionally elevated. If he's grilling you, chances are less that SET will calm the waters. Boundaries like wave rider expressed are more effective.
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ColdEthyl
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 03:33:45 PM »

I actually state in laymans terms that I am not going to JADE, and will enact a boundary if pushed.

eg:

'This is my view, I have stated it, I am entitled to it and I will not be pressured into constantly justifying it. If you continue like this I will go elsewhere and you can argue with yourself.'

Boy I love that quote... .if I can only keep my head until I say it... .

It works. I have started to say something similar. Actually, I am mirroring what he says to me. My H will sometimes exclaim "My feelings are my own! This is how I feel and I'm allowed to feel them!"

Yes, sir. yes you are.

What I have said to him when he started to get his panties in a wad was "This is how I feel, and this is why. I am allowed to feel what I feel, and like what I like." He actually agreed, and pulled his panties out a little. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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waverider
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 04:30:35 PM »

When you say dont tell me how to think, you are actually talking a language they understand. It is black and white, simple for them.

As long as you leave a crack open for a potential workaround they wont rest until all avenues of circumvention have been exhausted. It's almost an obsessive need to make sure the door really is shut.
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