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Author Topic: An attempt at RA, step one  (Read 464 times)
Crumbling
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« on: March 21, 2015, 11:34:37 AM »

"Help me to change the things I can, accept the things I cannot, and understand the difference" ~ paraphrased from the AA Serenity Prayer.

In order to sort out these things in my head and to dive into RA, I brainstormed some of the things that are obviously the reality of who my husband is.  In order to accept him for who he is, I need to accept (or build boundaries around) the following:

-his reactions to things that happen in life (both good and bad) will be negative;

-he does not have the capacity to make real, lasting change in his life;

-my positive energy can be severely stunted by his presence;

-he will most likely always want sex for him and have it play out under his terms and not mine;

-he will continue to correct, direct and question my every breath;

-he is not capable of offering me emotional support of any kind;

-his inability to control his spending or stick to a budget;

-he will continue to abuse his body and mind as he wishes;

-he will most likely lie about things;

-he will dysregulate regularly, and without any consistency, and will lash out in rages when he does;

-he will not support me spiritually; and,

-he will continue to act/say things in a way that pushes us towards co-dependency.

Cripes, when I read this list over I feel like I'll need to accept a life in hell... .I shutter at the thought.  Sorting out what and where boundaries will help feels like a 5000ft mountain to climb right now.  This was a really depressing list when I look at it in black and white... .

... .denial is so much easier... .
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Michelle27
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 12:14:54 PM »

I have been struggling with RA myself.  I don't know how to accept that I can't have the kind of relationship I know I need and deserve.  I've been in therapy myself and it's been a question that has come up repeatedly while I work through whether I should stay in the marriage or not.  The therapist keeps asking me, "what if he doesn't follow through with the changes he is saying he is going to make?  Can you accept him the way he is?"  I don't want to answer that question because my gut reaction is NO and that gets rid of the hope I have that this time, he means it when he says he is going to deal with his issues in therapy and classes.  On some level, I think he's going through the motions just to "keep" me as I have stated that is a condition of my staying.  He swears that's not the case but I don't know if I can believe it after so many failed attempts and manipulations and lies in the past. 
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Crumbling
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 01:17:33 PM »

Exactly what I am dealing with, Michelle.  Even just looking at this list makes me think that I would be a fool to accept these behaviours as 'okay' to be in my life, for the rest of my life.

Thanks for sharing
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Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2015, 01:36:04 PM »

There's another aspect to acceptance and it is self acceptance- turning the mirror on ourselves:

"It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed,

no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with

us. If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the

wrong also."

-- "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" (AA's 12&12) Step 10, pg. 90

This is a hard concept to grasp when living with a difficult person. I really struggled with the idea that - yes, my H is a raging negative person, and yes, my mom acts crazy, how does this mean something is wrong with me? I wasn't doing any of the things I saw them doing.

Sometimes we don't change in a r/s unless we become uncomfortable in it. Many of us have walked on eggshells, keeping the other partner comfortable while experiencing emotional pain- however, that can be an incentive to change. While we can only change for ourselves, a change can disrupt the relationship balance- making the partner uncomfortable. The first response for them is often to rage or do something to shift us back into the expected position. I don't suggest we deliberately make our partners uncomfortable- it's a natural consequence of our change. What can happen on our parts is that in response to our partners' distress, we shift back into what we both know as the comfort zone.

Change to me didn't seem linear. It was one step forward, two steps backwards, relapses on both our parts, but over time, I realized that my mother didn't trigger me as much. I was more comfortable around her, more authentic. Shortly after that, I noticed the same thing with my H. Are they different? Maybe not, but I think I am. This doesn't mean I tolerate bad behavior or boundary violations. However, some of the behavior that would bug me, like being negative, doesn't as much because I don't relate to it. The rages, sulks, ST - have diminished because they don't work any more. He's in a funk? well that isn't my problem. I don't have to be in one too.

While not tolerating being mistreated, if we use the stuff they do as a mirror and ask, why does this bug me? we may learn something. This RA list is a good one. Your H is all those things and true, this is depressing. In the 12 steps, that would be called "taking his inventory". One process is taking our own inventories, with a sponsor, and it can be pretty rough.

Do we stay, leave, have hope, or not? That's an individual decision. I just figured that I would take a look at me first, and found that I have plenty of work to do on myself.
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2015, 01:58:16 PM »

Another part of acceptance is to accept that where you are is where you are. You've gone through a lot Crumbling. You're feelings are real.

I can recall being so angry and resentful and I still have those moments. I owe a lot to sponsors and my T who make me turn the mirror on myself, and it really made me mad sometimes. I am grateful that they weren't afraid to make me mad. What I knew was that change started with me and that was all I believed I could do.

 Be good to yourself. It's OK to feel what you are feeling and to struggle with what you are dealing with.
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Crumbling
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2015, 02:02:42 PM »

Here's where my bitterness creeps in.  I went on a soul seeking journey about 15yrs ago.  I had to heal from abusive r/s's from my past, and childhood sexual abuse.  I was doing really well, then I met H.  He was just starting his journey into self-discovery or so it appeared.  It felt like meeting him was a prize or something, for being so in-tune with myself and changing the course of my life... .for healing.

Now if feels like the joke's on me.  Here I am today, re-building what I worked so hard to achieve; needing to be on the alert, aware and in the moment making sure I say/do everything 'right' the whole time I'm with him, or suffer the consequences; needing to self sooth and heal from the wounds that have been inflicted over the years (both by me and him, and by health issues)... .

Yes, I can and will focus on what behaviours, thoughts, and words I need to change in me, definitely.  It's the only thing I have real control over.  But there is something that happened after we got married that altered my ability to live healthy, and unless that something is deal with, it will just keep feel like fighting my way through quicksand... .this list is my way of saying, this is my reality and these are the things I need to work on to be able to live reasonably happy within the r/s.  Does that make sense, or am I still putting too much emphasis on the 'him' side of things?  I feel like if I figure this out, I will be better prepared to answer the bigger question:

Am I in the wrong by simply being present in the r/s?

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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2015, 02:10:06 PM »

I have actively practiced RA, and I have directly and continue to experience around 80% of your list. It is disappointing... .but it is also reality.

The term and idea of "sponsors" is completely foreign to me... .?

I agree you should always check yourself first when in conflict, but this need to constantly monitor what you say to your SO with BPD feels less than authentic... .as in not being true to yourself. I feel it can be incredibly emotionally draining, always being on guard for the both of you. When you are needing to constantly sooth their emotions it often leads to neglecting your own... .at least in the moment.

RA helps enormously with appreciating the situation, and to coping... .but it really doesn't "change" anything, but I believe that is partly the point. You don't have the capability to change "everything"... .only yourself.

... .this list is my way of saying, this is my reality and these are the things I need to work on to be able to live reasonably happy within the r/s.  :)oes that make sense, or am I still putting too much emphasis on the 'him' side of things?  I feel like if I figure this out, I will be better prepared to answer the bigger question:

Am I in the wrong by simply being present in the r/s?

That makes perfect sense and what Radical Acceptance is about. Your ability to RADICALLY accept what you cannot change immediately. I think the mission statement of RA is the hope that while practicing RA you will be able to influence things in your capacity to have some hope that things can or may change over time.

Your last question is also the result of the practice of RA... .and it is one which only you can answer.
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2015, 02:34:51 PM »

I really like your list Crumbling. I have a lot of the same experiences and it isn't easy.

I recently joined a 12 step program for partners of SA. I have been working on doing a radical inventory of myself. I am stalled at the moment because I am feeling very frustrated and overwhelmed. It is so much easier to look at what he is doing instead of looking at how I am feeling and what I am doing.

Since your list hits so close to home for me, I am going to take it and look at my side of it:


-his reactions to things that happen in life (both good and bad) will be negative; ---When he does those things, I take it personally or feel the need to fix it. It isn't my place to worry about HIS reaction to things. My place is to worry about how I feel about things that happen in life.

-he does not have the capacity to make real, lasting change in his life; ---I lack the capacity to make real and lasting changes. I continue to get stuck worrying about what he is doing and how his behavior impacts me. I have been with him for almost 17 years. Instead of focusing on me, I continue to think that I am not the one that needs to change. He is.

-my positive energy can be severely stunted by his presence; ---I am letting another person get under my skin and negatively impact me. I am letting somebody else's behavior define my moods and impact my energy.

-he will most likely always want sex for him and have it play out under his terms and not mine; ---I have allowed my husband to set the requirements for sex. I do not know how say no and stay strong. Why can't I say no without feeling guilty about it?

-he will continue to correct, direct and question my every breath; ---I continue to fold under the pressure of being questioned. I fail to set boundaries and respond in ways that are healthy for me. I am afraid of setting boundaries and refusing to respond to questions that are none of his business. I have not exercised my right to be an individual within the context of the relationship.

-he is not capable of offering me emotional support of any kind; ---I continue to seek support from somebody that has repeatedly shown that he is not capable of being emotionally supportive. Why do I continue to do the same things over and over again and expect different results? When am I going to get it through my head that I need to seek support from other sources.

-his inability to control his spending or stick to a budget; ---Until recently, I did not have any safeguards in place. I would deny myself things and then resent him for it. As long as the bills are paid and the kids have food, he should be able to do whatever he wants with the money he earns.

-he will continue to abuse his body and mind as he wishes; ---I am abusing my mind and body by continuing to repeat the same patterns withing our relationship. I am focusing on what somebody else is doing with his body. I may not like it. It is none of my business. Continuing to focus on what he is doing with his mind and body is distracting me from focusing on the ways that I am abusing my mind and my body.

-he will most likely lie about things; ---It is quite likely that I am not being totally honest with myself or others. It is a whole lot easier to live in denial at times. If somebody else has a history of lying or being dishonest, then it doesn't make sense to trust that person. Why do I continue to delude myself into thinking that he might change or that he will stop being dishonest? Why am I being dishonest with myself about how I truly feel about him and our relationship?

-he will dysregulate regularly, and without any consistency, and will lash out in rages when he does; --- Even though I know the facts on an intellectual level, I still seem surprised when he dysregulates. I take it personally and tie myself up in knots analyzing it and thinking about it and wondering why.

-he will not support me spiritually; and,  ---I am seeking spiritual support from somebody that has shown that he is incapable of supporting me spiritually.

-he will continue to act/say things in a way that pushes us towards co-dependency.  ---I continue to worry about what he is doing and saying. I am still not focusing on myself enough and am still very enmeshed with this person. My inability to stop worrying about him is contributing to the codependency. I still tend to want to rescue him and save him instead of backing off all the way so he can deal with his own stuff and I can deal with my own stuff.


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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2015, 02:42:16 PM »

Crumbling, you make total sense. I lost myself in my marriage, what was left of me after people pleasing my parents for as long as I can remember. Like many here, I had ups and downs in relationships. My H had refused to go to marital T, however, some time after my father died, he agreed. I don't know why at the time, since I was grieving, but I know something shifted in me. Considering loss of hope, all my hopes for my r/s with my father died with him. I knew that I was done with co-dependency, but I didn't know how. I think my H somehow knew I was done with how we were acting in our r/s. Maybe not done with him, but done with the dynamics.

So I went into T with a similar list of crappy behaviors my H was doing and little hope that he would change and I was mad as heck that the spotlight was on me. However, I was ready to do whatever it took to make positive changes and so, I went to 12 step co-dependency groups. As fate had it, I had a good sponsor. She was a smart, intelligent woman, which was good since I had so many questions- and she also scared the heck out of me by guiding me through all my issues and my role in them. This wasn't fun. It was like making a kid eat a plate of spinach instead of ice cream. I thought some of the people in the group were pretty mean. If you wanted to be validated and supported, they would sometimes put the mirror on instead. It was love, but tough love.

Then, sometimes you just gotta vent, like here.

Am I in the wrong by simply being present in the r/s?   Is there anything else you can be but present in the r/s? I struggled with the idea of why am I here, is this right or wrong as if I should do something. I think in the process of change, it doesn't mean a sudden urgent change. In fact, these aren't the kind that are easy to stick to. You don't go from being a couch potato to running a marathon in a week. If someone is in danger, then maybe there is an urgent need, but if not, then just being present in the r/s and growing may be the right thing to do.

However, I do more than that. I hold up my end of the agreements to be faithful and caring and to love in the context of what is good for my H. Being co-dependent isn't good for him. Love isn't a feeling, it's a choice. I make the choice. Love doesn't mean accepting abusive behavior though.

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sweetheart
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2015, 03:43:19 PM »

Hello Crumbling,

This link might be useful in helping you understand that you don't have to 'accept a life in hell,' that isn't what RA means,

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/prescriptions-life/201310/overwhelmed-negative-emotions-try-radical-acceptance

RA is also about accepting our part in the dysfunctional dynamics of our relationship. For me that has been really hard, returning to things in my past that I thought I had dealt with. When in reality I was re enacting my own  issues that were being triggered by the conflict within my marriage. When I realised what I was doing it was like  Idea Idea and something shifted inside me. This is when I changed.

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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2015, 04:49:52 PM »

Dear Crumbling,   

Mr. Denial sure has walked out the door, hasn’t he?

I don’t think you’re putting too much emphasis on the “him” side of things.  It’s his behavior that’s having such a negative impact on your life, and what you’re trying to find a solution for in an effort to have a better life. 

... .this list is my way of saying, this is my reality and these are the things I need to work on to be able to live reasonably happy within the r/s.



You sure you didn't copy my list?    The thought of radically accepting/dealing with each separate behavior all at once is overwhelming.  What about putting them in categories that can help you narrow your focus?

Personal weaknesses: has a negative presence, can’t make lasting changes, unable to provide emotional/spiritual support, impulsive spender, lack of self-discipline

Emotional reactions: negative attitude toward both good and bad, unpredictable dysregulating

Physical reactions:  raging, abuses his body/mind, sex on his terms only

Verbal reactions: lies, lashes out, corrects/directs/questions my every breath

That way you can see the personal/emotional weaknesses that have nothing at all to do with you personally.  They've been there all along, way before you came in on the scene. Look at your own strengths and interests in these areas and nurture and grow in them, and put your own strengths to work in your own daily life in order to protect yourself from his weaknesses.  Maybe increase the amount of time you are in contact with other people who are positive and encouraging and give you emotional support.  (Not that guy friend of yours, though! That’s asking for even more trouble.)

Then separately, there are the physical/verbal reactions that he takes out on you out of anger and that require more serious enforcement of boundaries.  Let your feet do the talking.   

Because I lived with this for so long before learning exactly what it was, my trip to radical acceptance was a short one.  Once I realized that what this staying road was going to involve, I liked knowing that I could choose whether to do it or not. 

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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2015, 05:11:22 PM »

I could not do RA effectively and instead just became a shell. I found the 'how to stop caretaking book' quite helpful. 
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2015, 05:49:17 PM »

I agree to not be in denial. We need to know what we are dealing with. This list can then be followed with something about us.

I became a shell too. I had to own that part of it and take steps to not be a shell no matter what happened with the r/s.

I have a list like this too, and a list of resentments. Still working on that one too.

I agree though, first, denial has to walk out that door. You've identified the issues that concern you, and that's a good step. My asking about you is extending the favor that people did for me when they had me do it.
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2015, 06:00:37 PM »

Radical acceptance is fine as a concept but I just went back to my list of deal breakers for a man. It should be noted he exhibited NONE of these when I met him.

Drugs, excess alcohol or other addictions... .  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

- drinks to get drunk several times a week, alway joking about wanting drugs but not really joking

Fiscal irresponsibility ... .Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

- hasn't a pot to piddle in or a window to throw it out at 44, blew in excess of    $100 000 in a year and nothing to show for it, large credit card debt (aprox$20 000) , can't discuss financs openly and plan toward any goals, won't contribute in a balanced manner or reciprocate when aided financially

Infidelity ... .  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

- cheats emotionally and physically, has his circle of orbiting women, had an affair with a married woman with a child (before me), is splashing his new true love all over FB but on POF daily 

Smoking... .  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

- I am allergic and asthmatic he smokes more than a pack a day

Abuse of any kind ... .  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

- rages, put downs, disrespect, broken promises,  lying, cheating, stone walling, abandonment, financial, silent treatment, gas lighting, smear campaign etc etc etc

So I radically accept that he is who he is. I radically accept that I fell in love with who he wishes he was. I radically accept that as he currently is I cannot imagine being his friend let alone his wife. I radically accept that all these sides of his persona are real and a part of him. I radically accept that he tried and so did I. I radically accept that he will need years of therapy and may never truly be stable. I radically accept that I love him and wish him well. I do NOT accept his treatment of me any more.  :'(

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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2015, 06:07:17 PM »

So I radically accept that he is who he is. I radically accept that I fell in love with who he wishes he was. I radically accept that as he currently is I cannot imagine being his friend let alone his wife. I radically accept that all these sides of his persona are real and a part of him. I radically accept that he tried and so did I. I radically accept that he will need years of therapy and may never truly be stable. I radically accept that I love him and wish him well.

This is the hardest part 
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2015, 06:13:36 PM »

So I radically accept that he is who he is. I radically accept that I fell in love with who he wishes he was. I radically accept that as he currently is I cannot imagine being his friend let alone his wife. I radically accept that all these sides of his persona are real and a part of him. I radically accept that he tried and so did I. I radically accept that he will need years of therapy and may never truly be stable. I radically accept that I love him and wish him well.

This is the hardest part 

Yes this is the hardest part. Loving someone whilst watching them self destruct is a brutal experience. Letting them go is even harder somehow. Man I miss him. Not the wackadoodle him but the kind gentle intelligent him. I want to call him up and scream at him to get a grip and come home but its hopeless I know.
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Crumbling
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2015, 01:50:17 PM »

Thanks for all the posts, everyone. 

So, I initially was going to simply list the things I could do, i.e. boundaries, SET, goals, etc to help me cope with each of these, but the idea of mirroring to better examine my own reality sounded like a good idea, too... .so these comments will start with an M.  The 'how to deal with his issues' will start with 'I can... .'

   

Negative reactions  I can limit the amount of time I spend with him.  Not really an easy/ideal solution, but something I can work with.  The goal is reasonably happy IN the r/s, so this solution seems counter-productive to me, but I aint got nothin else... .

M- I'm glad this is the first one, because it is totally his issue and not mine.  I went through an exercise to help deal with my own negative thoughts, and most of the ones I get are justifiable (which really helped validate my plight)  Being cool (click to insert in post)  Typically I am a positive person.

Capacity to change  I can lessen my expectations of him, and learn to accept the person he is today is the person he will always be.  (I don't really believe this, honestly, I think everyone has the capacity to change, but as long as he doesn't see things that way, what other choice do I have?) 

M- Another easy one, I have the capacity to change, in fact I'm the type of person that thrives on change. 

At one time, I had hoped these differences in who we are would work in our favour and help balance each other out.  I can work on letting this premise go.

Stunted positive energy  I can work towards having my own space somewhere in the house.  My own room where I can shut the door, and build boundaries around interruptions, etc.  This will be a huge job.  The only option is the laundry room/storage space.  It's the only room in our open-concept home that has a door.  If I tackle this, he will be constantly on his nervous... .back to dealing with the intolerance of change he has... .I've been avoiding this, but it is an option. 

I also believe that the more I focus on building my crafts and skills, the more confidence I will have and the less his influence will effect me... .I hope.

M - Do I stunt his positive energy?  Can't say I've seen any in him, not for a long long time, anyway.  I do tend to invalidate him when he discusses projects, ideas, etc, simply because I've gotten excited about projects of his in the past only to never see them come to fruition.  And when he is whining about his ailments, for the zillionth time.   I can and will continue to working at not invalidating him.

Sex  The shackles on the back of my neck stood up even as I was typing the word... .really tough topic here, not easily dealt with.  I know that at this time, my past wounds have been re-opened, and I need healing/T in this regard.  I tense up at the mere thought of it.  The question of bring in lovers for either of us is not an option  - I know us, and it would be like an incurable infection that would only result in distance between us.

Invalidation I can secretly wear ear plugs while in his presence.   Being cool (click to insert in post)  No, honestly I don't know how to block out/deflect/react to his invalidations, other than just keeping as much distant as needed.  Again, I think that the more I build myself up, the less I will be effected by his words. 

M - I sort of answered this one under the negative reactions bit.  I'm aware that if I invalidate him, it will make matters worse.  I am on the alert for what I say and my body talk.

Emotional support  I can continue to build my own support team, my friends here, my in-person friends, my T, etc.  Go C Team!  I can work on accepting that he does not have the capacity to give emotional support.  I also have my group and T now, which I have no intentions of walking away from.

M- I have been giving him less and less emotional support as time progresses.  In a way maybe this is a good thing.  I'm rescuing him less.  Don't get me wrong, I do support him in any efforts he makes to make his life better, but he wants me to be his everything sometimes, and I don't think this is healthy.  I'm not sure if I'm justifying myself here... .more thought needed.

Money Issues  I can build boundaries around the way bills/expenses are dealt with.  I have good ideas here that I will be put into action as soon as my income becomes a steady paycheck.  It felt really good to go through this exercise, and when I came to this one my gut reaction for a solution was 'make a crapload of money so that I don't give a rat's bum what he does with his.'  Probably not a realistic goal, but it made me feel good to entertain the notion, nonetheless.   Being cool (click to insert in post)  I also think not denying myself the things I need will help too.  I tend to put my needs last (like most mom's I think - and FYI, it doesn't go away once the kids leave), but I can make the effort to be better at this.

M- I am careless with my money sometimes, but rarely.  For me, heavy spending is forking out thirty bucks for a new wardrobe at the second hand store.  One of my downfalls is the yummy seafood that they fish right there where my workplace is... .reasonably priced lobster is hard to walk away from... .but I do know how to stick to a budget and I will continue to do so.

Addictive substances/abusing the body  I can learn to keep my mouth shut and mourn the recovering alcoholic I married.  He is back to being an active alcoholic and this needs to take it's course.  I can, and will need to practice RA consistently on the issue.

M- I do have some bad habits I can, and will work on  (eating habits, inconsistent with exercise, etc).  I can set some personal goals to help me stay on track with staying physically healthy. 

Being untruthful  I can accept that what he says may or not be what he really means/feels/experienced.  I can mourn not having a r/s that is built on trust.  I can work at examining his words on a deeper level, to help find the 'rest of the story', behind all that BPD crap.

M - I tend to be really honest, brutally honest sometimes.  I'm wondering if allowing myself the option to tell little white lies and partial truths to him may help even out the playing field... .when it means protecting myself, or my goals. I would have to let go of the guilt it forms in me when I do it.   More thought needed here.

Dysregulation  I can maintain my boundary to leave when things become too heated.  This works well, so far.  In fact, it's become simply a matter of asking him to stop or do something else, and he will now... .BIG blessing.

M- I can dysreg too.  I seem to have two thresholds, the first being a place where I will let my anger out, while staying in control of it.  This seems to be my red flag, my 'I feel cornered' reaction.  Then there is the out of control dysreg... .the hysterical crying, where everything is red and control goes out the window.  This hasn't happened for a long time, I think because instead of ignoring my emotions,now I am working with them and not stuffing my pain.  My 'walk away when necessary' boundary helps a lot with keeping this in check, for me too. 

Spiritual Support  I can pursue my own spiritual life, without his participation.  I can accept that he is not ready to grow spiritually, that's his right and his option.

M - I do support him spiritually, I pray for him constantly, I would be willing to support him in any direction he felt led by the spirit, but it just ain't happening.  He has no desire to pursue this.

Co-dependency  I can re-read up on co-dependency, become more familiar with the signs and continue to be cautious of falling into these patterns.

M - I can evaluate my own actions/words/intents at the same time to try to break any patterns I've developed over the years.

Phew.  Still feels a bit intimidating but somehow much more livable. 

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Crumbling
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2015, 02:07:42 PM »

BTW, Flowerpath, you made me laugh when you brought up my male friend.  Smiling (click to insert in post) We are still friends, just friends. He did start checking in with us a little too often for comfort after that incident.  But my h assumed it was because friend wanted to spend some time with him too, so they met for coffee and a couple rounds of pool.  Smiling (click to insert in post)  Friend stopped calling so often after that.  Life has a way of working things out sometimes.

 
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2015, 02:22:23 PM »

Great list Crumbling.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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