Got sucked in... opened up and shared my feelings... didn't go well... not good

[formflier]

So... .my wife and her changing plans.

She wanted to send youngest two over to her parents... 8 hours away for a week... and two year old would not be here on her bday... this coming week.

actually got a couple days heads up.

This morning I made her an offer... .IF it was a big deal to her and she wanted me to let them go without a talk... .I could do that... .OR... .if this was an idea she was working through... I would be happy to to work through it... .talk about it with her.

Things were great last week... .so I was trying to show goodwill... build momentum in a good way.

Of course... she doesn't give me a clear answer.  But... .starts asking me questions and we start talking about options.

So... .she wants to talk through it... .?       I guess.

She asks about my feelings about my daughters birthday (2yr old) and I start telling her how much I have enjoyed making plans with her, how special the little one is.   Note:  I'm assuming this is gesture of goodwill on her part and we are going to have a heart to heart... share feelings... .

She sort of interrupts me and says... ."you have no idea how it feels to get docked... .to not get credit for all those years of missed things"

She is not dysreg... .loud... .it was odd.  So... .I asked who was docking her... .I didn't understand.

Then... .it hit the fan.

YOU ARE!

Here is the problem... .for me... .my defenses were totally down... I was open... vulnerable... .

I tried to recover... .said something about wanting to continue talking about my precious daughter and how I felt... .I started getting emotional... .she storms into bathroom... .slams door. 

Says we'll talk when I learn to put the toilet seat down (that was actually funny... .probably kept me from getting worse)

She showers... .we have a tense conversation (now that I'm back on my game... .sort of)

And... .sort of agree that I will be ok with sending kids away and changing our plans (we've been in agreement about birthday plans for weeks) if the extra time is spent with us spending more time together... talking some some books we are reading together.  She agrees... .sort of.

We'll... .she walks out of conversation.  Announces birthday is now to entire family.  I asked about the cake as we had agreed I would go get one.  In huffy... mocking tone in front of everyone... ."if you want one... .go get it... "

So... .I did.  opening presents with the cake seemed to go ok.

Then... she hustles little ones out the door into oldest sons car... .and they are gone.  ?     

Me trying to ask for any clarification is shut down... huffed about... .in front of everyone. 

Well... .I retreat to room and try to calm down for few hours.

We have had scheduled date for several weeks at 6pm.  We jointly put it on master calendar in kitchen... .weeks ago.  fixing a prior complaint of hers about why she had hard time making time for me... or keeping her agreements.  We have been regularly talking about this date for weeks since then.

So... I get ready... .come down with time to spare.  She immediately b___es about I should have reminded her... .she needs 15 minutes to get ready.  I know this... which is why I came down early... we have plenty of time.

now she says she never wanted to go... .why would I want her there (a couples event this evening). 

I want to spend time with you was the answer I gave her.

So... she sits and does facebook... .not speaking to me for 10 minutes.

Then goes and gets ready.

Now we are leaving... late.  I try to move the seat back in my daughters truck... and cut my finger... .horribly... .on something in a bunch of junk she had in back seat.  Blood spewing... dripping.

Wife yells at me to not get it on my clothes... .

I'm rinsing finger and notice cut is under nail as well... .no chance fixing this at home.

Wife and daughter trying to figure out what cut me in truck... .I get in other vehicle and go to  clinic... 5 minutes away.

text wife while there about what I'm doing... eta.  No response.

I get back home an hour later... .hand in bandage and splint.  She and another daughter are gone.  I asked rest of family where they were... .nobody knew... just that they had left.

I text and call.  Ask her to call asap.  She texts back that she and that daughter are at movies she will be home at 930pm and wants to go on a run with me... .  

Says phone low and now her phone is shut off. 

Not one person in my family has asked if I am ok...

The youngest two kids are gone... .and I'm now alone in my room.  My wife is out with our daughter on "our" date night.

I honestly don't know if I can keep this up. 

She asked about my feelings for my daughter... .I was so happy... .so glad to talk about that.  I guess I just cant be vulnerable with her... .

:'( :'(

[formflier]

 

So... .question for the guys that have been doing this a while... .are you able to be emotionally open with your SO... .sometimes... .or do you cross that off list.

If you are... .how do you protect yourself... .?

[Riverrat]

Are you OK? Sounds like it was a serious cut! Splint too?

Serious talks never seem to go well for me either. Perhaps their thoughts just don't form fast enough, or they just stick to their opinion, so it's useless to try to get serious answers.

I keep telling myself that "feelings are facts" so they really won't see a second opinion, or an alternative way to do something. I also seldom share my feelings toward SO as she seems overwhelmed by this. She has even stated she doesn't need to know how I feel. Which I find sad.

For now at least, I just don't go there with her.

Hope you're felling ok, fingerwise at least!

[vortex of confusion]

So... .question for the guys that have been doing this a while... .are you able to be emotionally open with your SO... .sometimes... .or do you cross that off list.

If you are... .how do you protect yourself... .?

I have not figured out how to be emotionally open with my SO. I haven't crossed it off the list completely. People keep telling me that I need to be more vulnerable and open with my SO. When I try that, it tends to have a similar ending. Last night, I told him I was fed up and he interrupted me and yelled at me and asked me if I wanted him to move out. Not sure how it went from me being fed up and frustrated to him asking me if I wanted to move out.     

The only way to protect myself is to NOT be vulnerable and open. I have to keep the tools in mind. At one point in the conversation last night, "do not JADE and be quiet" kept running through my head.

[formflier]

Are you OK? Sounds like it was a serious cut! Splint too?

Yeah... .bad cut... .I'll survive.  Yep... splint on finger... .they said more to protect cut.  Nothing broken. 


VOC,

I am sadly at the conclusion right now... .that the downside of being open and vulnerable... .is too dangerous.  Yet... .have no interest in an emotionless marriage.  Zero... .

I mean... .she asked me... .what could be wrong about being open about my feelings for that... .?  

[Cole]

FF,

Sorry for what you had to go through.

Mine acts the same way at times, and I have to say I am getting tired of being embarrassed when she acts out in front of others.

We had a date night set up several weeks ago. She went uot of town to her parents. So, we moved it to the next week and she did the same thing. Yet, she claims I never make time for her. Passive-aggressive behavior goes hand in hand with BPD. They ask our opinions then act as if we are forcing our will on them. 

My wife accuses me of being emotionally shut down. Of course I am. If I let my guard down I get hammered. So, we are in a very emotionless marriage with little intimacy. Sometimes I wonder why I stay.

[formflier]

We need to start a thread on how to confront... .deal with... .whatever the passive aggressive stuff... .

[Michelle27]

So... .question for the guys that have been doing this a while... .are you able to be emotionally open with your SO... .sometimes... .or do you cross that off list.

If you are... .how do you protect yourself... .?

I haven't read the replies after this one, but I will... .this just resonated with me huge.  My H has decided to finally get help (although it's debatable if this is his decision or due to my boundary that I will no longer continue in the marriage unless he pursues help).  I've made the commitment to stay for a period of time but can't/won't commit to staying indefinitely because I will no longer put up with rages in my presence and have made it clear that he can dysregulate but will need to leave our home to calm down when he's in that state.  I am working on my own stuff in the meantime (codependency, RA, PTSD like symptoms).  His request to me while all of this goes on and we wait for his referral to a psychiatrist to come through as well as an intake appointment with Mental Health is to be emotionally open with him.  HUH?  When he asked me to do this I looked at him and said, "let me tell you a story.  There's a lion stalking and hunting a herd of elk and slowly picking off the members one by one.  I am one of the elk.  At one point, I'm the only one left.  You, the lion, come to me and say, 'come here.  Let me console you on the loss of your family'.  I am seriously supposed to be vulnerable and open emotionally with the person who causes me the most pain?"  It took him a minute, but he understood.  It's going to take a very long time of consistent behaviors and efforts on his side before I can let down that wall and be emotionally available to him.  I don't even know if I will ever get to that point after so much pain has been caused.

[workinprogress]

So... .question for the guys that have been doing this a while... .are you able to be emotionally open with your SO... .sometimes... .or do you cross that off list.

If you are... .how do you protect yourself... .?

My wife can't handle it at all when I try to be emotionally open and vulnerable with her.  I have given up on it.  It makes for a lonely marriage.

[workinprogress]

So... .question for the guys that have been doing this a while... .are you able to be emotionally open with your SO... .sometimes... .or do you cross that off list.

If you are... .how do you protect yourself... .?

My wife can't handle it at all when I try to be emotionally open and vulnerable with her.  I have given up on it.  It makes for a lonely marriage.

Oh, and it makes it very hard for me to be open when she decides to recycle me at random moments in time.

[Hmcbart]

from the sounds of it, she wasn't happy that you were doing something she felt she should do. Then when you told her your feelings about how much you enjoyed it, she got more upset.

The next part was the cut finger. She had gotten you to focus on her and then you got hurt and that went away.

My wife acts this way anytime I'm sick. I used to think she just didn't have a bedside manor but she treats the kids and others with compassion when they are sick. When it's me, I can only count on a feeling of contempt. It's like she's upset that I'm sick and can devote everything to her.

As far as the passive aggressive part... .I have been focusing on ignoring her. It's makes her more mad but after 19 years, I can't deal with anymore. I'm in the middle of passive aggressive silent treatment session as I type this. I stay downstairs away from her and spend time playing video games with the kids.

[formflier]

 

So... .I seem to be in this "pushing" mode against her behavior... .calling it out... .

I was really looking forward to us keeping our date tonight... .

I need "something to come true"... .

So... she got home an hour after she had texted she would be home and I went down to see her.

I asked her if she could still go out and get a bite.

She asked if I wanted to snuggle on couch... .I offered to after our date.

I expressed to her that it would help my day and my outlook for this to come true... I was not having a good day.  Mentioned it was on calendar... I had been looking forward to it.

She then said if I wanted a date I shouldn't have gotten mad earlier about my finger being cut.  I asked if she was asking about the emotions I felt when my finger was cut... .she said she didn't need to ask... it was obvious.  

"if you want to know what I felt... I will be happy to tell you... .I'm not demanding a chance... .it was not anger... . It is hurtful to me to have you state my emotions and be wrong... ."  I was calm but firm

There was some huffing but she backed down... .and... didn't ask about my emotions.

Finally agrees to go out.  I thanked her I mentioned again how much I wanted to spend time with her.

She asks me a question and I start to answer and out comes the phone and facebook.  "Can you please put away your phone so it can be "just us" tonight... I was looking forward to that... ."

w:  "you can ask me nicer"

I said same words in same way (don't know how to be nicer)

Lots of sighing and huffing... she put phone away.

Then... we proceeded to have 45 min to hour of pleasant conversation while driving and at dinner.

Got home... .and she went into little girls room to lay down (the ones she sent away) I asked if she was coming out to sit on couch after date.  She came out and sat on other couch... .not the one I was on... .stayed for a few minutes and then kinda stomped up stairs.

That's where I am heading next...

[gomez_addams]

We need to start a thread on how to confront... .deal with... .whatever the passive aggressive stuff... .

Yes!  Please!

[Loosestrife]

I get told all the time that I haven't said something in 'the right way' - it makes me feel like I'm at school! Lately I have tried to pick up my SO on how I am being spoken to, but all I get is a sarcastic 'well sorry I havent said it in the exact way you wanted me to!'. It's impossible to communicate my feelings.

[Notwendy]

I can relate to being told that I didn't say it the right way.

I have a thread about living in silence.

This came up the other day in T, and I expressed that when it came to communicating- the intimate personal feeling kind of communication- that I felt completely defeated because it seems that nothing I try works. 

I said it to my H and his reply was " that hurts my feelings!"

My only conclusion is that this kind of thing sends them into their heads with their own stuff, and so, they don't seem to hear or connect with what we are saying. I find that my H's impressions of me are more based on his inner feelings about me than the person in front of him. Growing up, I felt that I was invisible to my parents as it felt that who I was to them was how they painted me... .or how I pretended to be to keep them happy.

That's probably a key point here for someone with BPD. If you spend so much of your life pretending to be what you think others should see you as, and you have no real sense of an inner true self, then can you connect to someone's inner self when they reveal it to you? I don't know the answer but it makes some sense to me.

[Notwendy]

I'm not sure what she means by this:

"."you have no idea how it feels to get docked... .to not get credit for all those years of missed things"

She is not dysreg... .loud... .it was odd.  So... .I asked who was docking her... .I didn't understand.

Then... .it hit the fan.

YOU ARE!"

However, this may be telling you something about a resentment or miscomunication that she is reacting to.

[Cole]

Plenty here about miscommunication and not saying something the right way. It is not that we do not say it the right way, but that they misinterpret what we are saying. I have said before that dealing with my wife is like speaking English to someone who only understands Spanish and is trying to interpret it using a Swedish to German dictionary.

FF, you were mad you hurt your finger. I would be, too. I also know that if this happened to me, in my wife's twisted reality I would be mad at her because it is somehow her fault. I was annoyed a couple weeks ago because a bolt broke on the tractor plow and I could not clear the drive. She got all upset and thought I was mad at her because if she had got the 4x4 I wanted her to get instead of a sedan I would not have to plow to begin with.

In her mind everything is her fault and therefore if I am mad, I must be mad at her. Is it possible this is what is going on with your wife?   

[Notwendy]

Cole, that sounds just like I feel when talking to my H. I don't know what language he speaks. I feel as if whatever comes out of my mouth is completely twisted when he "hears" it. However, his dictionary only translates into a few phrases: "she says I'm defective, worthless, rejected... ."

I think one thing that attracted my H to me was that I was open with my feelings. He says he can tell when I am being quiet or guarded. However, when I do speak my feelings it doesn't go very well. It feels as if my being vulnerable is a signal to him to go for the attack. I wonder if he likes my being vulnerable because he knows exactly where I am emotionally instead of wondering. The last time I found myself crying in the midst of one of his rages, he just went on verbal attack even more. That was a while ago. I think he was aware of it, as well as aware that I don't want that to happen again.

Sometimes I am not so nice. It gets to me. I have told him about the translator he has in his mind and the fact that I think his father's verbal abuse is the reason for it. His response to that is " I'm defective". I've told him that I wish he could get around that tape in his mind that plays this when I talk to him.

[Cole]

Notwendy,

It has come up in many threads lately that pwBPD have low self esteem, feelings of worthlessness and core shame issues. And yes, they misinterpret everything we say as somehow being an attack on them.

Said by NON: I had a hard day at work.

Heard by pwBPD: You wanted children and I have to work my butt off to feed them.

Said by NON: I miss my grandmother.

Heard by pwBPD: If it wasn't for you, I could have spent more time with her before she died.   

In neither case does the NON mean anything more than what was stated, but the pwBPD hears an attack on them. In my wife's case, I think it is because of all the hateful things her mother said to her as she was growing up; she was blamed for anything and everything, so now she assumes that if it is wrong, somehow she had something to do with it.       

[formflier]

I said it to my H and his reply was " that hurts my feelings!"

Has this ever happened after he asked you to express your feelings to him? 

This... .is what I think got me to the vulnerable point... .and it hurt worse than if she would have just said it out of the blue.

I actually get it... .that if I walked up to her and started yammering away about my feelings... .and she wasn't ready... .I could see how this could hurt her feelings... .

Of course... .that is from my point of view... .

[formflier]

I'm not sure what she means by this:

"."you have no idea how it feels to get docked... .to not get credit for all those years of missed things"

She is not dysreg... .loud... .it was odd.  So... .I asked who was docking her... .I didn't understand.

Then... .it hit the fan.

YOU ARE!"

However, this may be telling you something about a resentment or miscomunication that she is reacting to.

This is where it went wrong... .before this I thought I was a hero for what was going on that morning.  Snuggling... .sharing... .top notch stuff.  Thought the kid thing was handled.

This has something to do with our Navy career.  I was home for all the births... but I missed birthdays and other special days.  It got better in the later part of my career.

Lot of guesswork on my part on the above explanation.

I'm not going to drop understanding this... or getting some sort of explanation about how this is/was triggering.

I'm not going to live in fear or "monitor" speaking lovingly about how I care for my children and how special they are to me.  Not going to happen.

Especially when asked in a loving and nice way.  If it was in the middle of an argument... .I would put off a response until later.

Sigh... .

[Cole]

I said it to my H and his reply was " that hurts my feelings!"

Has this ever happened after he asked you to express your feelings to him? 

This... .is what I think got me to the vulnerable point... .and it hurt worse than if she would have just said it out of the blue.

I actually get it... .that if I walked up to her and started yammering away about my feelings... .and she wasn't ready... .I could see how this could hurt her feelings... .

Of course... .that is from my point of view... .

We need to keep in mind that any negative feelings we express will be interpreted by them as an attack, because in their mind, it is always somehow their fault. I think that is why they go on the attack when we open up- it is self defense to them.

[Cole]

I'm not sure what she means by this:

"."you have no idea how it feels to get docked... .to not get credit for all those years of missed things"

She is not dysreg... .loud... .it was odd.  So... .I asked who was docking her... .I didn't understand.

Then... .it hit the fan.

YOU ARE!"

However, this may be telling you something about a resentment or miscomunication that she is reacting to.

This is where it went wrong... .before this I thought I was a hero for what was going on that morning.  Snuggling... .sharing... .top notch stuff.  Thought the kid thing was handled.

This has something to do with our Navy career.  I was home for all the births... but I missed birthdays and other special days.  It got better in the later part of my career.

Lot of guesswork on my part on the above explanation.

I'm not going to drop understanding this... or getting some sort of explanation about how this is/was triggering.

I'm not going to live in fear or "monitor" speaking lovingly about how I care for my children and how special they are to me.  Not going to happen.

Especially when asked in a loving and nice way.  If it was in the middle of an argument... .I would put off a response until later.

Sigh... .

Sounds like the passive aggressive stuff that came up last night. Is she somehow getting back at you for the birthdays you missed? She may not even realize this is why she is doing it. 

[formflier]

In her mind everything is her fault and therefore if I am mad, I must be mad at her. Is it possible this is what is going on with your wife?   

This is common thread... where she alleges I have different emotions... .

Usually... .I am emotional... .and she puts a wrong... .or opposite label on it.

But... .now that you mention it... .more often than not she claims I am mad.

However... .she will also say things like.  I do xyz because you like it and it helps you... .(This would be first time mentioned to me... .and I hate what she does and it bugs me.

Sometimes she will allege I am happy... .and I am anything but... .this is not common... but does happen.

So... the finger thing.  I would describe my reaction as more terrified... .scared... than anger.  I tend to pass out with blood and stuff... .so... .I had visions of blood spurting on my nice clothes... .me passing out... .who knows what was going to happen to my finger.

Can I certify that there were no angry feelings ... .no... .but those flashed through in more of a "how stupid could I bed... ."  mad I myself kinda thing.  True... daughter should keep junk out of truck... but... .I saw it... .and should have been more careful.

[formflier]

We need to keep in mind that any negative feelings we express will be interpreted by them as an attack, because in their mind, it is always somehow their fault. I think that is why they go on the attack when we open up- it is self defense to them.

Totally get this... .and I'm aware that saying negative things is minefield.


However... .lovely morning together... she asks about my daughter... my feelings... I start telling her.

I can guarantee there was nothing negative in my voice... thoughts... body language.  Zero.  She's two... .is still cute when messing things up.

We have been having consistent... positive conversations about her for weeks... .

[Cole]

But... .now that you mention it... .more often than not she claims I am mad.

I have somewhat the same issue. I tend to be cool and calm, not emotional. So, if I am not showing an emotion, she makes one up, usually anger. Then assumes the anger is toward her. And somehow links herself in as the cause. then indirectly punishes me for it 2 years later. Then, I get mad!  

[Cole]

Totally get this... .and I'm aware that saying negative things is minefield.

FF, you don't have to say anything negative. They just have to interpret it as such. That is the hard part to deal with.

Happy birthday to your 2 year old! 

[123Phoebe]

In her mind everything is her fault and therefore if I am mad, I must be mad at her. Is it possible this is what is going on with your wife?  

This is common thread... where she alleges I have different emotions... .

Usually... .I am emotional... .and she puts a wrong... .or opposite label on it.

But... .now that you mention it... .more often than not she claims I am mad.

Formflier, is there any chance that you're having trouble finding your anger?  I'd be pissed off if my guy left and went to movies while I was at clinic with bloody finger.  I would not be in any mood for a date night after that.  Once the initial anger response calmed down, then the other feelings could and would surface. But denying my anger is akin to invalidating myself and not being totally honest with him.  

I've found that I can work through the "grieving process" in small increments = situations.  Kinda like pruning the trees, so that I can see the forest... .

[gomez_addams]

FF, you were mad you hurt your finger. I would be, too. I also know that if this happened to me, in my wife's twisted reality I would be mad at her because it is somehow her fault. I was annoyed a couple weeks ago because a bolt broke on the tractor plow and I could not clear the drive. She got all upset and thought I was mad at her because if she had got the 4x4 I wanted her to get instead of a sedan I would not have to plow to begin with.

In her mind everything is her fault and therefore if I am mad, I must be mad at her. Is it possible this is what is going on with your wife? 

I hurt my back the other day, and my uBPDw told me she was sorry.  I realized that the only time she says that word sincerely is when I'm sick, injured, or had a bad day at work. 

It's almost as if it's safe to say sorry when it has nothing to do with her.  The hurtful stuff she says?  She'll shift the blame to me, deny she ever said it, or minimize it into something not worth apologizing.

Gomez

[formflier]

 

So... what are the chances we would be better off actually telling them all the negative stuff?  

For instance... .if we actually told them we are mad and they are stupid... .would they interpret we are happy with them?

Or... .do we just need to accept that they will have a negative... .toxic... .outlook and will reject happy thoughts...