High conflict seems to be over, but maybe the Pluto DVD helped...

[sanemom]

I haven't been on here much lately... .mostly because things have been chaotic in other realms of our lives (we just finished a major house renovation, and I have been unpacking and unpacking and unpacking... .). 

We finished the 4 year long court battle last summer, and DSD18 was very alienated from DH and very enmeshed with BPD mom.  She refused to text him, called him by his last name in her phone, was refusing visits, etc.  Not sure why, but after a few refusal of visits and DH just replying with a basic, "Ok, I love you" instead of fighting it, DSD started coming back to our house.  Right before the Thanksgiving visit, we had her (and her brothers who live with us) watch "Welcome Back, Pluto".  We promised her we wouldn't discuss it with her--just wanted her to see it.

Ever since then, things have been almost back to normal.  BPD mom is a waif, and it wouldn't surprise me if the kids told her about the DVD and her behaviors and she started the sweet, "Oh, my mistake, sorry!" but who cares--the kids are acting almost normal.  DSD is even telling DH she loves him and is replying to his texts.  It is just strange to see this 180 with not discussion or explanation, but we will take it.

The one thing that was has been coming up was a trip I took with my DD4 to Disney World.   Here’s the deal—my friend was getting married and invited our entire family to go.  DSD doesn’t live here during the week (her choice).  My DDs actually know my friend pretty well.  We could have just taken my DDs or we could have just taken all of the kids except DSD, but we realized that no matter WHAT combination of kids we took, it was going to make us look bad.  That is why the trip just ended up being me with my DD4 and no other kid (and it was an AWESOME trip).

Recently, I took some of our kids (DD11, DD4, and DSD18) for a day trip to the zoo.  It was fun.  Then, at some point, we got to talking about my trip with DD4 to Disney World.

Anyway, DSD started talking about how she was upset she didn’t get to go.  Initially, I was trying to evade the conversation as “it just wasn’t going to work out” and she kept asking, “Is it because of the system?”  The system?  What on earth?   After a few times of her saying “Is it because of the system that I couldn’t go?” I finally replied, “It’s because you don’t live with us during the week.”  Does she really need that pointed out?  Also, at the time when I had to make the decision of who all was going, she was refusing to come over--but I didn't say that.

Then yesterday she brought it up again with DH, and DH said, “Do you really want to know why you couldn’t go?  We can certainly talk about that.”  She just dismissed him playfully.  Either she already gets it or she doesn't want to know really.

Not quite sure what she is thinking about what went on and her role in it the past few years (lying for her BPD mom, etc), but it did have consequences.  She has also made mention of her "pathetic boring life" more than once this past week--she has given up learning to drive, dance lessons, a job, etc. (things that the younger teens who live with us have) all to live with her BPD mom so it is hard to listen to that without saying anything like "That was your choice."

But no matter, at least she is good with us again.  Their mom is almost non-existent in our lives, but I am sure she will pop up here and there.  Right now BPD mom seems to be ok with DH--he is no longer the evil one for whatever reason.  Who knows how long that will last, but we will take it.  :-)

ANYWAY, if you are dealing with alienation, I definitely recommend your kids watch "Welcome Back, Pluto"!

[Eco]

ANYWAY, if you are dealing with alienation, I definitely recommend your kids watch "Welcome Back, Pluto"!

thanks I will have to keep that in mind, my daughter is only 2 so she's to young for that yet. im convinced my ex is starting to try and alienate me and my mom and its only going to get worse im afraid.

[bravhart1]

Would those of you who have watched this say that it would be appropriate for a six year old?

We've been thinking about how to broach SD6 when she gets back from spring break days with BPDm as she always comes back a little distant and voicing moms bitterness towards us.

Maybe it would help?

[Panda39]

Would those of you who have watched this say that it would be appropriate for a six year old?

We've been thinking about how to broach SD6 when she gets back from spring break days with BPDm as she always comes back a little distant and voicing moms bitterness towards us.

Maybe it would help?

Do you feel that SD6 is alienating her dad or is this more about transitioning from one house to the other?  My SO and I used to joke that we had to "de-program" is daughters when they arrived back from their moms.

[Nope]

Do you feel that SD6 is alienating her dad or is this more about transitioning from one house to the other?  My SO and I used to joke that we had to "de-program" is daughters when they arrived back from their moms.

Call it transitioning or call it alienation, anything that makes life with kids who have a BPD mom easier is worth looking into. What I know is that no matter how aweful my step kiddos mom was acting, when they lived with her and we'd get them for holidays or occasional weekends they would get in the car and the  second their mom was far enough in the rear view mirror they would be joking around and bubbly and happy and glad to see us. Now that they live with us when we get them back from their mom they are sullen, angry, and badly behaving for a full couple of weeks. They won't even tell us any of what she said until weeks later when they finally fully calm down. Yes, I validate, but nobody likes being an emotional punching bag. So if a video can potentially lessen the time it takes to get back to normal I'm certainly on board with giving it a shot.

[Panda39]

Would those of you who have watched this say that it would be appropriate for a six year old?

We've been thinking about how to broach SD6 when she gets back from spring break days with BPDm as she always comes back a little distant and voicing moms bitterness towards us.

Maybe it would help?

Do you feel that SD6 is alienating her dad or is this more about transitioning from one house to the other?  My SO and I used to joke that we had to "de-program" is daughters when they arrived back from their moms.

I asked the question because I thought the video was about parental alienation and it sounded like bravehart was having a hard time with transitions based on this post... .there may be more to bravethart's situation that isn't posted here... .but I asked because I wan't sure if the video is applicable (I have not seen the video). I am also for anything that helps kids deal with a BPD parent.  Was just questioning if this is the right tool in this situation I am most certainly am not trying to discourage anyone from trying something that could help.

[Nope]

I'm sorry Panda. I didn't think you were trying to dissuade and you raise a great question regarding the difference between alienation and transition. I did not mean to sound as sharp as my post might have come off. I think my own anxiety about the kids going to their mom's for spring break really broke through. I guess my point was more simply that I don't see transitions going as badly as they do for kids without alienation as a factor. A child simply crying because they are going to miss a parent they just had a great time with is very different from a child who's just spent a week listening to how awful the other parent is and then comes back acting that out. You are right that I am basing it off Bravehart's other posts that she can tell the difference.

Would those of you who have watched this say that it would be appropriate for a six year old?

We've been thinking about how to broach SD6 when she gets back from spring break days with BPDm as she always comes back a little distant and voicing moms bitterness towards us.

Maybe it would help?

Do you feel that SD6 is alienating her dad or is this more about transitioning from one house to the other?  My SO and I used to joke that we had to "de-program" is daughters when they arrived back from their moms.

I asked the question because I thought the video was about parental alienation and it sounded like bravehart was having a hard time with transitions based on this post... .there may be more to bravethart's situation that isn't posted here... .but I asked because I wan't sure if the video is applicable (I have not seen the video). I am also for anything that helps kids deal with a BPD parent.  Was just questioning if this is the right tool in this situation I am most certainly am not trying to discourage anyone from trying something that could help.

[Panda39]

I totally understand... .we are all in the same boat... .all have the same goal. 

[bravhart1]

I think SD6 has a hard time time coming back from being with mom for three reasons:

1) mom plays victim... ."why can't you be with me more? The judges and the therapists are all against me. Im so lonely without you, I will cry myself to sleep every night in my lonely bed"

2) mom talks about us in hateful ways... ."they don't love you as much as I do, they only want to hurt me and take you away from me because they are mean. Your dad never wanted you, and never even held you as a baby. Bravhart is mean and your dad is a drunk. You aren't safe with them.

3) mom sets SD6 up: "I was going to take you on a hot air balloon ride with Mickey Mouse and Santa Claus but you have to go back to dads house. Too bad you have to miss out, but dad won't let you stay with me"

I don't doubt SD6's confusion,  though she's getting better at transitions all the time. Her therapist straight up tells her that mom has some "funny ways of seeing things" which helps SD6 to decompress some of the conflicting ideas and stories. But after a longer visit, like four days for spring break, I know she will be in full mommy mode.

[sanemom]

I think the only reason that transitions are as hard as they are is because of alienation.  Otherwise, you would just get that typical initial sadness that you get when you drop your kid off at daycare.

I do think that Welcome Back, Pluto may help a 6 year old--they wouldn't understand all of it, but they would understand some.  Maybe order it and watch it first yourself?  You can get it off Amazon.  Worst case scenario, if she isn't ready, you can save it for later.

[ForeverDad]

DSD is now 18.  With her now an Adult I feel you can be more forthright with her rather than circumspect.  The next time it comes up, she deserves an appropriate answer IMO.  Delaying or deferring it will give her the opening to drop the matter.  I say this because you or DH shouldn't have to keep on making family decisions based upon her Adult potential reactions.  For example, if you had said, let's discuss it later and then later explained to her that if she had been spending more time with your family and you could have been confident of a positive reaction from her back then, the vacation may have been able to include all the kids.  Then ask, Would you like to join us next time?  Why not spend more time with us so we would feel comfortable including you the next time?

[sanemom]

DSD is now 18.  With her now an Adult I feel you can be more forthright with her rather than circumspect.  The next time it comes up, she deserves an appropriate answer IMO.  :)elaying or deferring it will give her the opening to drop the matter.  I say this because you or DH shouldn't have to keep on making family decisions based upon her Adult potential reactions.  For example, if you had said, let's discuss it later and then later explained to her that if she had been spending more time with your family and you could have been confident of a positive reaction from her back then, the vacation may have been able to include all the kids.  Then ask, Would you like to join us next time?  Why not spend more time with us so we would feel comfortable including you the next time?

I agree she deserves an appropriate answer, but I feel like she brings it up at very awkward times in front of many people on purpose--as in, I am not sure she wants to really know.  At the time of the trip, she was not yet 18--asking her BPD mom to change the schedule would have been more difficult than an act of Congress (and even though she is 18 now, her mom still controls the schedule bc her mom won't let her learn to drive or get a job or anything like that--I don't think it has even occurred to DSD that she can call the shots legally now).  :)SD is very stunted emotionally--not independent, and I am not sure how mature her processing is to begin with as she is very enmeshed with her BPD mom.  

When it is a difficult truth to deal with, DSD tends to disassociate--it is really weird to watch.  A couple of years ago when we pointed out where her BPD mom used to live (after she denied fervently that her BPD mom ever lived in the same town prolly bc then she would have to acknowledge that BPD mom rarely saw her even though she was close), her brothers started talking about how they remembered that apartment, and DSD had the strangest look on her face... a look of horror... .like she could not deal with that truth.  

Her mom has clearly twisted many things in her mind, and when she sees conflicting evidence, she has a difficult time.  Last year she was claiming strongly that we did nothing for her 17th birthday... .after her sister looked at her like she was crazy, we brought out the pictures of the weekend family trip we took for her birthday (not a small thing at all) and DSD was clearly confused trying to reconcile her belief that we did nothing 8 months before to the pictures right in her face.  It is amazing how her mom can mess with her head.

All that to say that although she is 18 in years, I am not sure she is REALLY 18.

[livednlearned]

All that to say that although she is 18 in years, I am not sure she is REALLY 18.

This strikes me as true of many of our kids. Having a BPD parent makes it hard to develop emotionally. 

[Nope]

Her mom has clearly twisted many things in her mind, and when she sees conflicting evidence, she has a difficult time.  Last year she was claiming strongly that we did nothing for her 17th birthday... .after her sister looked at her like she was crazy, we brought out the pictures of the weekend family trip we took for her birthday (not a small thing at all) and DSD was clearly confused trying to reconcile her belief that we did nothing 8 months before to the pictures right in her face.  It is amazing how her mom can mess with her head.

I've seen this as well. SD12 generally has an excellent memory for times and events. But about a month ago she claimed that she and her brother have always been with DH for Father's Day. Reality is that Father's Day has always been about three days before the BPD mom would allow DH his summer parenting time. Instead, DH would get an awkward five minute call with the kids where they would give him one syllable answers (a sign their mom was standing right over them) and then wish him a happy Father's Day before hanging up. When I pointed out to her that last year when we went up to visit them in the BPD mom's state was the first time DH has had them for that holiday she looked completely confused.

[ForeverDad]

It is a real challenge for children of acting-out, controlling, disordered parents to retain not only memories but also a sense of facts and stick with their conclusions.  I recall my ex's sister had a hard time being convinced in herself about facts and keeping them.  Years ago we would visit and she was say how bad we were and by the end of the visit she would agree it was influence from the uBPD mother and uNPD stepfather.  But next visit she'd be right back to saying how bad we were.  Though a young adult, she found it hard to reach a conclusion and stick to it, too many years of disinformation and raised to let others tell her what to think.  I think it's not uncommon at all.