Thoughts of payback

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi Everyone.

Things have been going better all things considered 40 days out of final breakup.

Today not sure why but was having thoughts of serving up a cold dish of payback to the exgf. Doubtful I will carry this out but can't guaranty I won't. Nothing illegal or immoral in my opinion.  Without rehashing the details the exgf owes me some $ which I will not pursue in small claims court. I did request her to pay it back a few weeks ago and got a nasty reply text.  As is the norm in these r/s there were many, many instances of getting ripped off and taken advantage of. I allowed it to happen and I accept my responsibility.

However there is no indication that anything will change on her end and I have no desire to change her. I do not want her to contact me ever again and she will continue to cause harm to others and herself unless she gets treatment.

If I want there is a way I can hold her accountable but it would be punitive, plain and simple, and would not cause me any problems... .other than the aggravation of going through with it.

My thoughts are to contact the apartment where she lives and is taking advantage of her son's gf and getting her booted from the apartment because she is a convicted felon... .something the son's gf does not know. She has amazing skills at manipulation and has pretty much skated without going to jail or being deported for a serious crime involving theft and elder abuse.

I would have no qualms putting my name on the "complaint" and believe I would be able to carry it out without causing big problems for other people. She has a good job and would have to move in with a relative. Felons are simply not welcome in that apartment complex. All it would take is one phone call from me.

Sure I can rationalize and come up with altruistic motives (probably save the son's gf from being taken advantage of further... .yeah she is and will be victimized by this person for as long as she is living in her apt) ... .but really it would just be payback served very cold... .plain and simple... .yeah it is like ok she messed with wrong guy etc.

Anyways... .these are the kinds of thoughts that are going through my mind today.

Maybe somebody here can help talk me out of thinking this way? Where is Don Corleone when you need him .

In spite of these thoughts things are getting better for me everyday so I don't want to discourage anybody here by this thread... .just writing what I think and feel and I have no place else to go to express myself.

[nowwhatz]

Hi Everyone.

Things have been going better all things considered 40 days out of final breakup.

Today not sure why but was having thoughts of serving up a cold dish of payback to the exgf. Doubtful I will carry this out but can't guaranty I won't. Nothing illegal or immoral in my opinion.  Without rehashing the details the exgf owes me some $ which I will not pursue in small claims court. I did request her to pay it back a few weeks ago and got a nasty reply text.  As is the norm in these r/s there were many, many instances of getting ripped off and taken advantage of. I allowed it to happen and I accept my responsibility.

However there is no indication that anything will change on her end and I have no desire to change her. I do not want her to contact me ever again and she will continue to cause harm to others and herself unless she gets treatment.

If I want there is a way I can hold her accountable but it would be punitive, plain and simple, and would not cause me any problems... .other than the aggravation of going through with it.

My thoughts are to contact the apartment where she lives and is taking advantage of her son's gf and getting her booted from the apartment because she is a convicted felon... .something the son's gf does not know. She has amazing skills at manipulation and has pretty much skated without going to jail or being deported for a serious crime involving theft and elder abuse.

I would have no qualms putting my name on the "complaint" and believe I would be able to carry it out without causing big problems for other people. She has a good job and would have to move in with a relative. Felons are simply not welcome in that apartment complex. All it would take is one phone call from me.

Sure I can rationalize and come up with altruistic motives (probably save the son's gf from being taken advantage of further... .yeah she is and will be victimized by this person for as long as she is living in her apt) ... .but really it would just be payback served very cold... .plain and simple... .yeah it is like ok she messed with wrong guy etc.

Anyways... .these are the kinds of thoughts that are going through my mind today.

Maybe somebody here can help talk me out of thinking this way? Where is Don Corleone when you need him .

In spite of these thoughts things are getting better for me everyday so I don't want to discourage anybody here by this thread... .just writing what I think and feel and I have no place else to go to express myself.

[Mutt]

Hi nowwhatz,

I suggest taking the high road. You've indicated that you don't want anything to do with her and want to remain no contact.

Her karma is her own and I wouldn't get involved in any of her stuff if you want to let go. What do you gain?

She may put two and two together and I wouldn't want a chance at being split black and the potential anger, vitriol and distortions.

Let things be.

[nowwhatz]

Hi nowwhatz,

I suggest taking the high road. You've indicated that you don't want anything to do with her and want to remain no contact.

Her karma is her own and I wouldn't get involved in any of her stuff if you want to let go. What do you gain?

She may put two and two together and I wouldn't want a chance at being split black and the potential anger, vitriol and distortions.

Let things be.

Thank you Mutt! Yes, probably didn't get enough sleep last night.   I like your zen proverb. 

[Maternus]

There are a lot of discussions about pwBPD and the money they owe to their ex-partners on this board. Is it just me, or had anyone of you the feeling to be narrow-minded, fussy and philistine when it comes to debts? My ex was able to send me completely in the FOG when it comes to money. After she broke up with me I told her, that I spent all my savings for the renovation of our new house, and all she said was "Yes, this is normal when you are in a relationship." Yes, that is normal. But it's not normal to move in together, let the other one spent all his savings for the refurbishment and break up three weeks after the moving in. She took ALL my money to decorate her new life, before she threw me out of her life.

[EaglesJuju]

I think Don Corleone would refuse this request because it is not his daughter's wedding day.  

The best way to "pay her back" is to keep moving forward and do well for yourself.  

Think of it this way, your ex is suffering from BPD. You know all the characteristics and what BPD entails. With an without treatment, it is hell for a person suffering with the disorder.

[mitatsu]

I think Don Corleone would refuse this request because it is not his daughter's wedding day.  

The best way to "pay her back" is to keep moving forward and do well for yourself.  

Think of it this way, your ex is suffering from BPD. You know all the characteristics and what BPD entails. With an without treatment, it is hell for a person suffering with the disorder.

it's posts like this that keep me sane on nights like this... .and the thought that maybe they will just 'suffer' (sorry i know but i suffered every way for her)

[eeks]

I appreciate the recommendations to take the high road, the best revenge is to live well, etc.  That's probably the "correct" answer, but I want to validate your feelings as well.

I had revenge fantasies shortly after the last text from uBPDex.  There were two possibilities, basically I was going to use information I had about him (that I believe others involved did not have) to... .put a larger or a smaller roadblock in his life and/or in the way of a particular project he was participating in and although I would arguably be acting for the good of others, my intention would be revenge, somewhat like you said nowwhatz.

I ultimately lost interest in revenge because in the case of the big road block it simply wasn't what was best for him, and the smaller one I just don't know enough about how it's going to eventually turn out to say whether my meddling would backfire.

I have to think, as with the question "why do these people affect us so," the answer here again is the confusion and powerlessness that we feel when a relationship with a pwBPD ends.  Revenge (imposing negative consequences on the person that they are powerless to do anything about) is a way of attempting to regain some power, and maybe even retaliation (see, now you feel as powerless as you made me feel).

Not that other breakups don't have revenge fantasies or those same feelings of confusion and powerlessness, it's just exacerbated with the relationship with pwBPD I think because of the nature of the disorder.

[Mutt]

I have to think, as with the question "why do these people affect us so," the answer here again is the confusion and powerlessness that we feel when a relationship with a pwBPD ends.

I was angry and had thoughts of getting back and for many years my ex would illicit powerful emotional responses.

I didn't want anger to lead to bitterness. I thought I had suffered enough in the r/s and post break-up I wanted to stop my suffering and what that meant to me was working on my triggers and responses to her psychological and dysfunctional coping mechanisms. It takes time. Anger is also a part of the grieving process.

My mental health, becoming emotionally detached and not engaging in tit for tat is worth more to me. That's a power my ex partner cannot take.

[nowwhatz]

I think Don Corleone would refuse this request because it is not his daughter's wedding day.  

The best way to "pay her back" is to keep moving forward and do well for yourself.  

Think of it this way, your ex is suffering from BPD. You know all the characteristics and what BPD entails. With an without treatment, it is hell for a person suffering with the disorder.

it's posts like this that keep me sane on nights like this... .and the thought that maybe they will just 'suffer' (sorry i know but i suffered every way for her)

Same here! Thanks so much you guys. I read about so many different types of dysregulated behavior among the BPDex's mentions on this site. It is mind boggling. 

I know they suffer. Something that really bugs me is that my ex uses her sufferering to scam and take advantage of people. I know she regrets and feels low about it one day and indignant the next. During our final real discussion she was smug when I called her on some of her more egregious behavior.  I candidly told her I have always overlooked or forgiven her because her mental illness... .and that I thought she wasn't herself when behaving poorly.

Her response was smug and mocking my compassion and could not have been any clearer "I know EXACTLY what I am doing!"  was what she said.    I know we are not supposed to cling to words they say etc. but it is hard to seperate the acting out when juxtaposed by pure evil.    The following day she was back to poor little ol mentally ill me regretting my decisions mode... .that is when I dumped her.

One of my bad habits is that I have a lot of patience with people but when my patience runs out I make a sort of judgement day on them if I can.  I am also aware of my many shortcomings and my own bad behavior... .which I usually try to own... .but most of us humans sometimes I don't own it until I am caught.

What you guys said is true... .it would be revenge and a power play if I got her kicked out of the apt where she is leaching off an innocent victim. Would I be bitter and angrier later? I don't know. 

Just venting... .woke up on wrong side of the bed I guess.

[Mutt]

Her response was smug and mocking my compassion and could not have been any clearer "I know EXACTLY what I am doing!"  was what she said.    I know we are not supposed to cling to words they say etc. but it is hard to seperate the acting out when juxtaposed by pure evil.

I don't think it's so much that she's pure evil and more so in regards to her lacking personal boundaries and understanding personal boundaries of others.

My ex would say something similar I do what I want! if I called her on her behaviors. My ex partner looks for someone that's an emotional caretaker. After the initial idealization and the resentments that were brewing in the relationship I started to become a parental figure of sorts. I think she may of had a hyper-critical parent in her past and it may be part of her core wound of abandonment. Something that would have to be explored in therapy anyway.

It's speculation from some of the things she had recounted from her family of origin (FOO) and I do feel like the vitriol she was directing at me in the latter portions of the r/s felt like transference from another figure in her past. I got the sense that she was talking about someone else sometimes when she had borderline rages. Something totally unrelated to me. I think that in her mind I was this hyper critical parent and if I called her on her behaviors she'd lash out.

With that being said, it's good to talk this out nowwhatz and it's not a judgement on your character as these r/s's can be incredibly frustrating, painful and ex partners are often wronged in some capacity.

When my ex partner left she did something similar. I was the sole provider and she wasn't working and we had little money. I couldn't fathom how she'd get a place. I didn't want her to leave me. She approached an elderly woman at a property management and this was during her dissociative phase. I think most likely she told the manager stories of my abuse. My ex said "The lady said I don't have a job and that she'll help because she has a good feeling about me" Honestly I don't know the truth to what was said as my ex partner dissociates and alters reality often

She got reduced or subsidized rent for a place that was much nicer than what we had. A super nice place that cost next to nothing monthly without reporting my income.

I got feedback from members here and keep in mind we were seperated for a very short period. I was raw and very angry. I was told that if she gets found out for not reporting my income to get this place, the property management may come after me to pay the differential.

I called a L and they said if she chooses to cheat the government it's between the government and her. The property management has a certain amount of rentals where they can rent out at a reduced rate and the rest or a portion is supplement by the government where I live in Canada.

I was angry because of how I felt like I was hoodwinked with the affair that had been going on for many months and how she was lying to obtain this rental. The L was right. Her cheating is between her and the property management. She didn't disclose her taxes correctly when we left and it did get corrected by the government and she had to pay a substantial amount back. Her choice with how she conducts herself and there are consequences with such choices. It may not affect her now and some will likely catch up to her at one point or another. I choose to remain out of it and take care of my stuff with her out of my stuff.

Don't be hard on yourself nowwhatz and as you say everyone gets up on the wrong side of the bed sometimes. I had thoughts of payback too with reporting her that may of affected my kids and where they live. She's gone and I don't want to be associated to her in anyway other than the kids.

[Infared]

My ex was smug, too the last time that I had talked to her.  She could afford to be because she was backed up by her new supply. She contacted me, too. Sick stuff.

Yeah, I got angry and had revenge fatasies, but I thought them through and realized that I would be behaving like her, and that in the long run there was no point. It was hard work to take the higher road, and what I got back was to be solid with myself for how I acted in a deceptive life experience that I was drawn into by an unhealthy person.  I did not have to act dysfunctional, too.

It's good to know that... I didn't walk away with much else other than liking who I am... .and how I chose to conduct myself... .That has value.

[Gonzalo]

The first question you should ask is whether you want to be the kind of person who further messes up a sick, broken individual's life for your own amusement? Is this the kind of thing you want to happily tell your parents, kids, or future partners about, or will you have to bury it because you know they'll think badly of you?

In practical terms, are you absolutely sure that there's no way she would find out you did it, especially if you would tell anyone else that you did it? Because if she does find out, then you could very well have a person with no sense of boundaries who believes she won't get in trouble for anything she does trying to make your life Hell for the foreseeable future. Read some of the stories on here about false police reports, break-ins to houses, and malicious lies before you poke the crazy person with a stick. Even if you feel that getting revenge is OK morally, it seems pretty unlikely that the small schadenfreude of getting one over on her that she won't even know was you is worth the risk of an expensive and/or dangerous campaign against you...

but I want to validate your feelings as well.

I despise that phrase so much, my ex- loved to tell me that I was supposed to 'validate' all of her feelings, and that there was no such thing as an invalid feeling... .at least for her. My feelings were just shoved aside as worthless, of course, while her feelings justified whatever she was shouting at me about that day.

[Invictus01]

I am not proud of what I am about to say, but it is what it is. The first few weeks after she discarded me, I had a range of thought from a suicide to ordering a hit on her (and I'm not even kidding) and everything in between. I think I was certifiably nuts. I never want to be in that state of mind or mindlessness... .

[Infared]

I am not proud of what I am about to say, but it is what it is. The first few weeks after she discarded me, I had a range of thought from a suicide to ordering a hit on her (and I'm not even kidding) and everything in between. I think I was certifiably nuts. I never want to be in that state of mind or mindlessness... .

I think that a lot of us had those kind of thought, especially if the end was abrupt and seemed to come out of left field... .I defintelt you had thoughts of depending it all.  It was not a pretty time in my life, and she could have cared less.

[HappyNihilist]

I'm a supporter of the occasional revenge fantasy. I've wreaked some mighty havoc on my exBPDbf in my head. I've come up with scenarios that even make me feel a bit sick. There are no Thought Police running around telling you that you can't imagine terrible things befalling your ex.

Getting stuck there, of course, isn't healthy at all. And acting on such thoughts is a completely different animal altogether. I agree with other members who recommend asking, Do these actions reflect who you really are and who you want to be?

Plus, it's important to remember that the mindset and life of a person with BPD is absolute hell on its own. There's no shortage of suffering there.

But go ahead and fantasize if you need to. We all need emotional catharsis sometimes. It's ok to be angry. It's ok to want some sort of karmic justice. Your feelings and thoughts are important and worthwhile. Let yourself feel them, and then process them later to see what you can learn from them.

Just make sure that you don't let your feelings cause you to act in a way that's contrary to who you really are. 

[ogopogodude]

I am not proud of what I am about to say, but it is what it is. The first few weeks after she discarded me, I had a range of thought from a suicide to ordering a hit on her (and I'm not even kidding) and everything in between. I think I was certifiably nuts. I never want to be in that state of mind or mindlessness... .

Interesting, ... I am quite angry, but I have never thought of "payback" or anything 'destructive'.  The only bad thoughts I have ever had was to duct tape my (ex)wife to a chair and also duct tape her mouth shut (for some reason I like saying "pie-hole" because it is somehow more degrading) and then and only then would she be physically able to actually listen to my rational  but quite calm rantings.  I then daydreamed that I would play over and over again her OWN voice of torment of me and the kids that I possess as videos and audio clips.  (This is why I video tape and audio tape, by the way, ... so the possibility of my daydream could potentially come true, ... he he he)

Anyways, ... .this is why we have these forums in order for us to express ourselves and our thoughts be they constructive (preferred) or stupid (not preferred, but oh so still very necessary, in my humble opinion).  We are human. It is okay to have these unusual or bad thoughts as long as they remain as such.

[nowwhatz]

The first question you should ask is whether you want to be the kind of person who further messes up a sick, broken individual's life for your own amusement? Is this the kind of thing you want to happily tell your parents, kids, or future partners about, or will you have to bury it because you know they'll think badly of you?

In practical terms, are you absolutely sure that there's no way she would find out you did it, especially if you would tell anyone else that you did it? Because if she does find out, then you could very well have a person with no sense of boundaries who believes she won't get in trouble for anything she does trying to make your life Hell for the foreseeable future. Read some of the stories on here about false police reports, break-ins to houses, and malicious lies before you poke the crazy person with a stick. Even if you feel that getting revenge is OK morally, it seems pretty unlikely that the small schadenfreude of getting one over on her that she won't even know was you is worth the risk of an expensive and/or dangerous campaign against you...

but I want to validate your feelings as well.

I despise that phrase so much, my ex- loved to tell me that I was supposed to 'validate' all of her feelings, and that there was no such thing as an invalid feeling... .at least for her. My feelings were just shoved aside as worthless, of course, while her feelings justified whatever she was shouting at me about that day.

Gonzalo, what you said in your first paragraph as well as not wanting to cause possible problems for her son and the son's gf she is now using if the primary reason I have not acted out on any such thing.

If I were to act on it I would make certain that she knew I was the one that did it.

There is nothing she can do to me and she doesn't have a moral leg to stand on and has no one that would take any retaliation against me. Her exhb would probably be annoyed because he might have to support her more financially than he may already be doing.

But you hit the nail on the head.

[Aussie JJ]

My mental health, becoming emotionally detached and not engaging in tit for tat is worth more to me. That's a power my ex partner cannot take.

Hi guys,

This is something that I should have printed out and stuck up on the fridge ages ago.  

My perspective of this has changed so much over time.  I used to ask constantly, WHY, HOW, WHY, but wait... .WHY!

I didn't understand and I still don't many things that occurred and have continued to occur throughout the relationship and since the breakup.  It's not my place to understand it, I accept that now.  I don't try to reason, logic or comprehend the motivations behind her actions.  I just accept that I cant control anything that she decides to do.  It is what it is.  

I have been through many phases and I still recognize I am attached to a certain degree.  It is what it is... . 

One thing that I look back and I now recognise many of my motivations and sort of have to ask myself those same questions is why... . Well I tried to reconcile with her, said i would work through any and everything and all of that jumbo mumbo that is supportive to a normal person however to someone with BPD in hindsight it was accusatory and blaming.  My motivations were altruistic and also selfish at the same time, quite a contradiction.  It wouldn't have worked out and it wouldn't have been a healthy thing had we tried to reconcile and be a couple again.  Again here, it is what it is.  

One thing I made sure I did through all of this, also through everything.  I never intentionally triggered my exGFwBPD.  Most importantly here, my sons mother.  If I harm her my view is I harm my son, I made sure I never set out to just blame in this manner or harm her.  Although I am sure that my actions did cause some harm for her, for that, I feel like crap.  Best intentions and I still hold myself responsible for that.  

Being a member here gives you many insights from the different stories and also the lessons page and workshops.  An understanding that with that theoretical knowledge and also the first hand experience of being in that environment with a pwBPD for so long gives (enables) us to be very powerful in our own lives and the choices we make.  With knowledge comes power and all of that rhetoric... .

The most powerful thing (it isn't even revenge) is to move on and live a full and happy life, never speak ill of the ex partner in your life and be the person you want to be.  

What is your motivation to getting her evicted, revenge (IMHO).  We can justify it by saying it is because of XYZ!  In reality examining your own motivations will give you the answer, why didn't you do it earlier if it was so important.  Reality check here, it wasn't.  This person although convicted or a crime and with a criminal history is trying to move forward and hiding that so she can live in a nice place.  Head over to the legal board and you will find a whole heap of members who have convictions from false accusations from their pwBPD that are still effecting their lives and job's 4+ years afterwards.  

Let it go, harming her will only come back and cause you grief in my opinion.  So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you.  (Matthew something, someone can add it in here... .)


AJJ.  

[nowwhatz]

AJJ,

My motiviations are payback/revenge/justice, and driving a final nail in the r/s coffin... .and probably most importantly to me would be to show her that unlike the rest of the world I can/will hold her accountable.

I can't disagree with anything you said and before I vent further I have to live with myself knowing that I allowed the r/s to continue and I allowed myself to be taken advantage of and allowed myself to be be abused. Whatever I got out of it wasn't worth it but I accept that my life if damaged by my choice to be with this person.

If I don't vent here I don't think I can get it out of my system. Anything I say about the exgf and her behaviors points right back a the above paragraph... .why would I want to be with this person?

She is not a person who is hiding to move forward. She has learned nothing because she refuses to get treatment. As part of her probation she is required to go to counseling but they do not hold her accountable... .she uses her poor little victim act along with her physical beauty and charm to game the system.  IMO there is little chance that pay her debt to society.  She was a licensed med tech in an upscale nursing facility and scammed a very old dying man into "loaning" her $30k in jewelry, which she immedialty sold. All of this occured when she was back with her exhb in 2013.  After geting caught she became suicidal, began cutting herself and other histrionics.

When she returned to me at the end of that year she at first told me the "story" about the old man (who died shortly after she took the jewelry) loaned her the items but she will accept her punishment for the misunderstanding etc... .I asked a lot of questions and then she admitted tearfully that she did steal the jewelry so she would go to jail to get back at her exhb... .blamed him.     That is the storline to this day... .only me and her exhb ... .the 2 biggest suckers in her life... .know the truth that she is a thief.  Although I would not call her a professional criminal she is very, very lucky not to have a 10 year prison sentence for theft and elder abuse (the most serious charges were dropped in a plea arrangement worked out by her high priced defense lawyer... .paid for by exhb... who found a procedural error in the prosecution's work... .got a simple felony theft conviction for $3k with conditions that she would pay back the $25k+ to the victim's family... .at $80 per month, which she is delinquent on).

Fast forward... .

When she moved out of my house in Novembe it seemed as if she was ready to move forward with her life.  She found a decent job and her son and I spent time to show her how to use public transportation. After our considerable efforts the exgf scammed her son's 21 year old gf into co-signing a high interest car loan from a disreputable dealer on a late model car.  This was near the beginning of the end and I remember my response her telling he it was crazy and not right.

As for me, I am almost broke, have massive debt now after the r/s... .you know the drill... .if I commited a crime I know where I would be going... .straight to jail! Don't have the luxery of a serious mental illness to fall back on or manipulative skill set to game the legal system.

It is sad to say but if I did report to the propety manager about her I don't think it would add any additional shame to my life... .and if it did it would be a drop in the ocean.

Ok... .as always thank you for listening. I have read all the responses and they are really awesome and thought provoking.  

Aside from my occasional venting when I write here I am honestly trying to live as happy a life as I can right now.  It is not like this all the time.

[eeks]

but I want to validate your feelings as well.

I despise that phrase so much, my ex- loved to tell me that I was supposed to 'validate' all of her feelings, and that there was no such thing as an invalid feeling... .at least for her. My feelings were just shoved aside as worthless, of course, while her feelings justified whatever she was shouting at me about that day.

I can understand why the word "validation" would evoke this response in you, when it is associated with experiences that were so painful and where something was demanded of you that was not reciprocated.  It sounds like to her, "validation" meant "agree with me" or "if the feeling is ok, any action I take based on it including shouting is ok" (validation is not agreeing, and there is a big difference between feelings and acting on feelings).

To me, a relationship without validation and empathy is not a relationship at all.  However, in adult relationships validation is reciprocal, partners do their best to take responsibility for their feelings (that is, name their feelings and make requests for behaviour, as opposed to blame, sarcasm, dishonesty, etc.) I say "do their best" because it takes practice and is especially difficult when emotions are running high.  Also it is unreasonable for anyone to expect their partner to validate their feelings 100% of the time.  What I have just listed here would be very difficult if not impossible for someone with BPD.

In any case, I said I wanted to validate nowwhatz's feelings because my observation and experience is that when I or someone else is experiencing strong "negative" emotions (anger, fear, grief), accepting the feelings as they are, observing and seeing what emerges can lead to useful insights that I or they may not have if they tried to reason their way to a conclusion - no matter how elegant the reasoning may be.  It's not just about sitting around stroking each other's feelings for the sake of it.

[apollotech]

When I look at my BPDexgf's life all I can think about is what kind of living hell she must live and know. Regardless of how they appear on the outside, torment reigns eternal on the inside. To heap more upon one of these sad people, no thanks. Being afflicted with BPD exacts its own punishment.

[nowwhatz]

but I want to validate your feelings as well.

I despise that phrase so much, my ex- loved to tell me that I was supposed to 'validate' all of her feelings, and that there was no such thing as an invalid feeling... .at least for her. My feelings were just shoved aside as worthless, of course, while her feelings justified whatever she was shouting at me about that day.

I can understand why the word "validation" would evoke this response in you, when it is associated with experiences that were so painful and where something was demanded of you that was not reciprocated.  It sounds like to her, "validation" meant "agree with me" or "if the feeling is ok, any action I take based on it including shouting is ok" (validation is not agreeing, and there is a big difference between feelings and acting on feelings).

To me, a relationship without validation and empathy is not a relationship at all.  However, in adult relationships validation is reciprocal, partners do their best to take responsibility for their feelings (that is, name their feelings and make requests for behaviour, as opposed to blame, sarcasm, dishonesty, etc.) I say "do their best" because it takes practice and is especially difficult when emotions are running high.  Also it is unreasonable for anyone to expect their partner to validate their feelings 100% of the time.  What I have just listed here would be very difficult if not impossible for someone with BPD.

In any case, I said I wanted to validate nowwhatz's feelings because my observation and experience is that when I or someone else is experiencing strong "negative" emotions (anger, fear, grief), accepting the feelings as they are, observing and seeing what emerges can lead to useful insights that I or they may not have if they tried to reason their way to a conclusion - no matter how elegant the reasoning may be.  It's not just about sitting around stroking each other's feelings for the sake of it.

Thanks Eeeks. The negative thoughts/feelings did help me to think things through and consider why I am feeling this way and so on.  There are some insights that are new while thinking all of this through.  I am an amateur at using communication techniques that work the best when dealing with dis-regulated people and this site is helping me to get a better grasp on that.

I have been around here a long time and really admire the moderators, vets and new people who have shown me a lot of compassion when it would be easy to cynically dismiss many of my threads.   

It is interesting that the very few people I have confided in outside of this forum about my thoughts of revenge/payback etc have all said pretty much the same "hell yeah she hurt you and your family mentally and financially put her on the street"... .and these are intelligent people but also protective friends who are upset at how I was treated.

When I tried to explain her BPD diagnosis one person made an interesting point that the diagnosis was on purpose and part of the exgf's defense strategy to stay out of jail. While maybe not on purpose it did help keep her out of jail... .and she has conveniently returned to her old self after a period of momentary humbling... .don't even want to think about it.

As I ponder all of this I want to avoid positive feelings about her because it is too painful and confusing. The only reason why I have not done anything to make her life miserable is my awareness of her mental problems.

All I know is I am trying to dig myself out of a huge hole and trying not to fall into any craters along the way.